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rcsi1 — Punk -Read Artist's Comments-
Published: 2010-06-24 08:32:01 +0000 UTC; Views: 3364; Favourites: 104; Downloads: 32
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If you disagree with me, I welcome it. If you're going to be a douche because you disagree with me, this stamp might be directed at you. Please keep in mind that I don't consider myself a punk. I do however, like a lot of the music and go to a bunch of local shows.BEGIN RANT:
When punk first began in New York, it was a huge amalgam of many different, sometimes even conflicting ideas (the Rimbaud-ian musings of Patti Smith, the back-to-basics mentality of the Ramones, Wayne/Jayne County's enlightened-yet-crude philosophy on sexuality, etc.) and music styles. (There was the three-chord one-two punch of the Ramones, the more metal influenced sound of the Dictators, the trashy cabaret of the New York Dolls, the nine-minute prog stylings of Television and many more.) All of these ideas and music styles were considered part of the punk movement.
This diversity even carried into the English scene for a time (one can hardly say Siouxie and the Banshees could be mistaken for the UK Subs) and, to at least a certain degree the Los Angeles scene too (with the likes of X and Black Flag introducing new approaches to punk.) In my world of the current Bay Area punk (and I use the term loosely) community, we've got loads of diversity (whether it's the street-klezmer of the Hobo Gobbelins, the stoner Bossa Nova of Mystery Dope, the hardcore stylings of Oppressed Logic or the sweet girl-meets-girl love songs of the Wisdom Teeth.)
So why do so many people think that they know exactly what punk is and isn't? Yes, there may be a few prerequisites of punk (the DIY ethic, at least some degree of free-thinking, etc.) but nobody can truly ever pin down punk. Ask enough people and you probably won't even get one cohesive definition.
I agree that the actual punk movement is dead (though punk music is still alive and well.) People have found better ways of rebelling and thinking for themselves. The thing is, that's probably because all the ex-punks and would-be-punks couldn't take the elitism that every punk community seems to spawn these days. (You can't go to two shows where I live without someone telling you you're not punk enough. At a Subhumans show, some girl gave me a hard time for "not dressing punk". And this is the Subhumans! That band's members wear t-shirts and shorts!)
Such people will complain that the reason the punk movement died is because of the "poseurs" or kids who have a limited knowledge of the history of punk or only like mainstream bands (you all know what bands I'm talking about) but still consider themselves "punk". However, so-called "poseurs" can be educated. Don't complain that little Jimmy hasn't heard of Rudimentary Peni. Give him "EPs of RP" for his birthday. Pissing off his parents will be an added bonus.
"Poseurs" can discover good music and are thus temporary. Elitists, with their fixed mentality of what punk is and isn't are permanent. They are the reason why all the new so-called "punk" bands sound the same, the reason why punk just isn't a viable form of self-expression anymore and why, as they would say "punk's not dead, it just stinks now."
END RANT
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Comments: 61
While I may love to sort things by their respective genres and subgenres of music and scenes, I actually hate Elitism, I mean, I don't need to shove the subdivisions of music into someone's ass just because it sounds "off", that's fucking retarded. I've been loving some real punk like The Casualties, The Exploited, Dead Kennedys, and some Metallic Hardcore/old Metalcore like Coalesce, Hatebreed, Converge, The Dillinger Escape Plan, etc.; but I also love modern music like Falling in Reverse, BMTH, BVB, blink-182, etc. because I enjoy them, not because of their categories
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I agree. I believe that punk has no meaning, at least nowadays. I don't get how I'm a poser for liking certain things or dressing a certain way. Seriously, someone can like Dead Kennedys and Blink 182 at the same time. (Note that I did not refer to Blink 182 as being punk either) Punks are so close minded, they think that people should only listen to hardcore punk and if they listen to anything else, they are "posers" or "sellouts" who only listen to said music for popularity. If you have long hair or t-shirts, jeans, dresses, etc. you're not punk enough, but if you have a giant green Mohawk and a denim vest covered in patches and spiked wrist bands, you're trying too hard and you're a poser. Seriously, they're just as bad as the metal community. It's disgusting.
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Continuing this: If anything, these snobby elitist dickheads are the posers. They're always walking around policing people and bragging about how punk they are and how un-punk others are. Listen to whatever you want, wear whatever you want, have whatever hairstyle you want, etc. That's what I thought punk meant, but apparently not.
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My best friend was part of the original punk movement, and is 25yrs older than me, so when he complains about young punks ruining everything, I have to remind him 'does that include me?' and he stops for a moment and nods and agrees he shouldn't be such an elitist. People are going to screw up when they are first joining a group. They aren't going to know the social norms, or have the right clothing, or fit perfectly, and may not feel as comfortable expressing themselves as some others- I know I'm quite reserved in my behavior compared to some of my friends. So, I've always been open with people as long as they are real and are themselves. I don't care what they wear as long as they are cool, kind, and awesome people- I'll be friends with them. We need to take people into our groups instead of forcing them out or making them prove themselves worthy; Like were gate keepers to our own little sad kingdom.
Also, not all of us are the way we are just to piss off our parents. My mom still helps me dye my hair and find clothing, and that confuses the shit out of some of the people I know who couldn't imagine a parent being ok with a kid getting piercings and dying their hair like my mom was when I was a teen.
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I really, really like this. I'd adding it to my page ^_^
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Elitists and posers both did a good job of fucking up punk. Fuck them both, I'll just do my own thing.
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Amen my friend 
Dance and laugh and play. Ignore the message we convey.
It seems we're only here to entertain.
A rebellion cut-to-fit. I refuse to be the soundtrack to it.
While we entertain we're still knee-deep in shit.
-Propagandhi
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I think you raise a really good arguement, but I'll take you one further. In at least the hardcore scene, Poseurs didn't kill punk, the bands did. Bands like Minor Threat, MDC, and Black Flag quit it because they felt that the message they were trying to convey(one they probably weren't exactly sure of to begin with) had been lost, not just to the audience, but to themselves. Punk rose and fell quickly because of the nature of its participants. They made decisions in the here, now thinking very little of the future and over all not caring. So when the felt it needed to end they ended it.
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In my opinion, punk either died with the Ramones and the Misfits (and Sex Pistols and every other legend there is) or it lives whenever someone has the guts to stick up for what they believe and not give a shit what anyone else thinks.
There's no age limit to punk. No religion to it, no specific music genre, it is (or was) just there. It can't be defined by anyone but the genius who created it.
I agree with most of your points. Awesome rant!
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yeah, very true!!
it's sad that some styles die because of the people who are like you have just perfectly described!
it's far more important to find anything, music or clothing, what you love yourself, where you can find a passion in!!
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I'm going to say mainstream killed punk (as well as many other movements). Mainstream gave an 'image' making 'elitists' want to conform to it, and then you get the 13 year old 'poser' who thinks she's punk because she listens to Green Day and shops at Hottopic, no knowlege of where 'punk' came from, just a product to buy.
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That's true, but some people listen to Green Day and shop at Hot Topic for their own enjoyment without believing that themselves or Green Day are punk. A lot of elitists just mindlessly bash anyone who listens to any mainstream punk-influenced bands like GD and assume that they only listen to them for popularity and that really pushes people away from getting into punk or the punk community.
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My definition of punk is doing or believing in what you want because you really want to when others would have you not do it. That is why it isn't for elitists OR posers. And punk mentality existed before the word punk even did.
I like your rant, but posers still bug me. In fact I would say that elitists are posers themselves for wanting other people to adhere to such tight rules in what is supposed to be a bold, daring, free-minded scene. I don't think someone is a poser for not listening to the right bands. I think a poser listens to bands so they can get street-cred or whatever. Those spiky jacket Crass-worshiping kids shouting irrelevant anarcho slogans seem more like posers to me than a kid who only owns 1 band shirt but loves himself and his own lifestyle for what it is independently of what anyone else thinks.
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I find with subcultures such as punk, goth or emo, it's something that can't truly be represented by clothing. For me, it's more a state of mind. Not everyone is able to dress in denim and nails, but that doesn't make them any less punk. Indeed, I personally define punk as anyone who'se ever raised two fingers and said 'fuck you' to society. And besides, who within these subcultures can say to someone 'you're not punk enough, therefore piss off'. It defeats the whole concept behind these subcultures.
Excellent stamp, brilliant message
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This is lovely! I completely agree. Interestingly enough these exact sentiments describe my feelings toward the goth subculture as well. As with punk goth is quite varied in sound and is quite hard to pin down. Talk to 10 goths and you'll get 10 definitions of what goth is.
I don't even use the term "poseur" as it has no effect on me whether someone is being true to who they are. Their behavior doesn't stop me from enjoying what I enjoy, so, why throw a fit? Plus, people often use that term to describe folks who are simply new to the scene not necessarily insincere. Most of the Green Day kids who call themselves punks aren't doing it to "fit it". They're simply new and acting on what they know. It's the job of the more experienced to take them under their wing. Everyone starts somewhere. It's hypocritical and ridiculous to bully a bunch of 13 year olds in Simple Plan t shirts for being new to it all.
It's elitism that kills any subculture or scene.
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i'm not punk and i'm rather old for certain things, but all you said is true. so i fave this
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Your wording is so eloquent...I must say that I'm incredibly proud of this--not that I claim to be punk and know all of the ins and outs of it--it's just very well written. I truly thought I was the only one with the sentiment that elitism did play a huge role in the dwindling life of the punk movement. And the quote that N1raha shared: "Punks got a lot of rules. And that's not very punk." holds a lot of truth to me. Everyone complains of the people who try "too hard" to be punk, and it bugs me. Punk is supposed to be a fluent movement, not just through fashion, but through the mind and one's lifestyle. So, again, I'm quite proud of this piece, and how well done of a job you've done with it.
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I read a quote once, I forget who it's by, but it went something like:
"Punks got a lot of rules. And that's not very punk."
So true. As is this stamp.
I'd rather meet a "poser" (I don't even believe in this term- the only 'posers' I've met are the 'normal' people who dress just to make others happy, and are not true to themselves) than an elitist.
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Agreed! LIke teh people constantly posting on PNDY's profile "this sin't punk" "thatsnot punk enough" shove it, jstu by saying that and giving it a bullshit defention means you dont understand what punk truly is.
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How do I do that clapping icon? Lol.
My brother keeps saying punk is dead too; I just think it's just not like what it was for him (in the 90s). It's still there. I think the elitists have given it a bad vibe for some people.
Like this one chick in my school (I'm in high school). My freshman year I was sitting in the hall wearing some band shirt (I forget which one) and she says I don't deserve to wear it. How can she tell? Because my hair wasn't a mohawk? Because I only had two cartilage rings? Bullshit. My brother said he had the same problem in high school - the kids all dressed the same in Hot Topic telling him he was a poser for listening to punk and dressing like a skater.
Gladly after that chick I never encountered another elitists. Not even at concerts surprisingly. I was happy at those concerts to see people dressed differently. Yeah there were some mohawks and liberty spikes but no one said another person wasn't "punk enough" to be there.
Sorry for my...rant-ish.
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i definitely agree with you however i would say posers did contribute partially, considering that, just as they can discover good music, they might not and might become elitists
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You make a very good point. You could always remind the former-poseur elitists that they used to be the biggest fans of (insert band here).
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i don't have much to say here, no huge response rant like everyone else, and i don't know a whole lot about punk, but what you said makes sense to me. and i don't think punk can ever really die, depsite whether it's in or out of the mainstream.
it's dumb to say you 'don't dress punk' because isn't it about doing whatever and not giving a crap?
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That was quite the rant. I believe it is also transferrable to basically any section of pop culture, since elitists are eeeeeveerrrryyyyyyywheeeerrrreeeeee. >.>
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You. Are. Gorgeous. I approve in-fucking-deed.
Your view is so very welcome, and terribly right,
...apart from one minor teeny fact, that being;
punk just isn't dead yet
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Agreed 100%
Most 'Poseurs" anyways are just young kids new to the scene, probably introduced to it through more mainstream bands like Rise Against, GreenDay and Anti-Flag. I know thats how I got into it ( except it was more like Blink182, Sum 41 in the early days and then Anti-Flag the Bouncing Souls and The Code later on ( and oddly enough end up dating the guitarist from The Code, very surreal moment there lol ) Anyways it really is the elitists that ruin punk for the rest of us, a poseur can be taught but an elitist D-bad is always going to be an elitist D-bad.
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Agreed. I first got into punk through AFI, then it was Green Day and Rancid, then the Circle Jerks, X and the Adolescents before finally all the local bands I'm into now. Then again, some kids were raised on punk. (One of my friends has punk parents. His dad has a mohawk and his mom has purple hair.) You shouldn't be judged by how you got into punk. Just focus on the music you love.
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Exactly. Its all about the music and getting together and having fun. Most of the punk kids I know don't even dress punk aside from a band t-shirt. Most of the kids I see dressing in stereotypical punk clothes realize after a while that its impractical in cold weather and spikes aren't exactly great when moshing.
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"Yes, there may be a few prerequisites of punk but nobody can truly ever pin down punk. Ask enough people and you probably won't even get one cohesive definition."
Love your rant.
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FINALLY! It's about time someone has said something!
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Not just punk. Without fail, elitists. Kill. EVERYTHING.
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I know exactly what you mean. I've gotten into DIY fashion lately and, looking up some DIY sites, there was one site that talked about what kind of lace was right and what kind was wrong. Come one people! It's friggin lace!
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I still believe punk is very much alive, just in different ways. I believe in the ideology, my then the aesthetics.
As with any culture/subculture, "It's not what you are, it's who you are."
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you know for some reason i believe that punk can be displayed better in movies , i mean in my opinion one of the best movies iv seen that makes you think yet want to start a riot at the same time is "pump up the volume " , i know that songs can cause the same effect but movies dont tend cause the immediate dumb animosity ppl tend to have over stereotyped music. so in my opinion in punk you need to expos so called person to the punk way of thinking , the true way , only then expos them to the music , yull know the person truly appreciates it when you see them working up a grin when they her a good punk song they never heard before.
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I know what you mean. Seeing authentic punk can sometimes be better at introducing newbies to the movement than the music. It's not just movies though. Any visual media that portrays punk in it's purest form works. I learned a lot about punk from reading the comic "Locas" by Jaimie Hernandez. (It takes place during the 1980s SoCal small town punk movement. The same one that spawned the Circle Jerks, the Adolescents, etc.) I also learned a lot from reading the "Fruits" book series. It documents, among other things, the Japanese punk revival movement in the early 1990s. I was already getting into punk when I discovered "Fruits" but that book series especially, converted me.
"Pump Up the Volume", huh? I'll have to check that one out.
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