HOME | DD

RvBOMally — Culture Profile: Dysonian Civilizations
Published: 2017-02-16 04:03:50 +0000 UTC; Views: 3268; Favourites: 37; Downloads: 0
Redirect to original
Description ​Many xenobiologists assert that humanity and its contemporary sapients are extraordinary in one important way: they have opted not to become a Dysonian civilization during their early stages of development. This is attributed to several factors, some romantic - such as the natural inclination of modern starfaring species to explore and push past the boundaries of existence - and some more pragmatic - the unique development of faster-than-light travel among these species, or their rejection of hedonic engine technology in the early stages. Whatever the reason, humans and other sapients such as the dyn, zadrovzh, avza, opheln and oktyan have become starfaring species, while most never left their home system. These are the Dysonian civilizations, and hundreds of them are found and destroyed by humanity every year.

A Dysonian civilization is a civilization that has reached a level of technological mastery that allows it to manipulate the resources of an entire star system. While this is a trivial matter for modern starfaring civilizations, Dysonian civilizations are restricted to their home system, mostly due to their lack of faster-than-light capabilities. Sometimes, civilizations opt to be Dysonian because they see no need to expand beyond their home system. Rather than using the resources of their home system to expand further into the galaxy, Dysonian civilizations instead create massive megastructures for themselves in their home system. While few have created Dyson spheres - most Dyson spheres in the galaxy were built by the Second Empire - most can build large orbital stations, ringworlds, Dyson swarms, and other megastructures designed to maximize the capture of their home star's energy. As megastructures require immense amounts of resources and time, these civilizations are often just as old as human civilization, and have consequently developed artificial intelligence and hedonic engines. The megastructures of most Dysonian civilizations exist for the sole purpose of powering their hedonic engines and their fleets of automated drones. With their every conceivable need catered to by their hedonic engines, these civilizations stagnate, ignoring the wider universe entirely.

While isolationist almost by nature and with access to paltry resources when compared to a galactic civilization, Dysonian civilizations are nonetheless marked for destruction by mankind and the other starfaring species of the galaxy. A Dysonian civilization may be isolationist now, but there is no guarantee that it would remain this way in the future. With the advanced technology that Dysonian civilizations possess, it is not inconceivable for one to direct its energies to conquest, raising a robotic army from the raw materials of an entire star system. While such an attack does not pose an existential threat to a galactic civilization, it would be enough of threat that important assets from elsewhere in the galaxy would need to be recalled to stymie it, thus damaging the astropolitical situation of a major galactic power and possibly causing a galactic power vacuum that leads to general warfare across the entire Milky Way. After all, less efficiently-managed civilizations have damaged civilizations exponentially more powerful than theirs; one only need look at the Yrrakis War as an example. If a Dysonian civilization gains access to neighboring star systems, then the galaxy could quickly have an artificial intelligence-managed interstellar civilization to contend with. Thus, it is prudent for the entire galaxy to nip these civilizations in the bud, before they can become a threat. Further, Dysonian civilizations are breeding grounds for a possible analogue to a Cog Lord, and the simulation matricies of Dysonian civilizations may knowingly or unknowingly harbor Cog Lord scrapcode. The possibility of a Cog Lord imparting Second Empire-era technology upon an alien species and unleashing it on the Milky Way is too great a threat for the galactic community to ignore.

The protocol with Dysonian civilizations is the complete destruction of the entire civilization, its constituents, and its technology. The last part is of particular importance; nobody knows if an alien technological artifact contains a hostile intelligence, which may later hijack the attackers' computer systems and turn their own machines against them. This edict is strictly enforced by the Protectorate and its member states. Fear of another War of the Cog Lords is so pervasive that even anti-Protectorate and anti-human civilizations participate in these crusades. The Dynic Hegemony has issued similar edicts to all of its member states, and the Solarians do not consider Dysonian civilizations to be oppressed, but rather oppressors in the making. To the galaxy's relief, there have so far been no Dysonian civilizations capable of withstanding an attack from a starfaring civilization, but experts on the topic fear the day that an interstellar Dysonian civilization is discovered and not immediately and thoroughly destroyed.
Related content
Comments: 36

ROWROWFIGHTDAPOWER [2017-06-11 01:07:06 +0000 UTC]

Didn't a previous update refer to "System Spheres" instead of Dyson Spheres?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to ROWROWFIGHTDAPOWER [2017-06-11 03:45:57 +0000 UTC]

Hm, different names for the same thing.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Brony4 [2017-05-30 01:21:01 +0000 UTC]

How long does it usually take for these civilizations to create their dyson spheres?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to Brony4 [2017-06-03 21:56:36 +0000 UTC]

Tens of thousands of years.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Meerkat92 [2017-03-17 20:55:42 +0000 UTC]

The real answer to the Fermi Paradox: the universe is really big, and nobody knows we're out there yet

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to Meerkat92 [2017-03-22 00:08:23 +0000 UTC]

That is actually my personal answer to the Fermi Paradox. Of course, it's more fun to have what we believe to be the most sensible route for intelligent life to take to be the answer. 

👍: 1 ⏩: 0

grisador [2017-02-17 18:26:22 +0000 UTC]

Reverse/Evil prime protocol !

Will they let the species live ?
As a species in caveman stage ?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

qwertz89 [2017-02-17 03:39:24 +0000 UTC]

could an aapa superpower challenge one of these?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

qwertz89 [2017-02-17 03:15:48 +0000 UTC]

would a sunshine like civ fall into this classification?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to qwertz89 [2017-02-17 03:16:06 +0000 UTC]

No, too primitive.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

PinkJenkin [2017-02-16 22:26:48 +0000 UTC]

The token hard sci-fi hikikomori civs. I really enjoy the nods you make to the common tropes of modern trans-/posthumanist fiction and futurist speculation, and your explanations for why they're not as common as the Ray Kurzweils and Nick Bostroms among us might want or believe to be realistic. Partly because it completes the "everything but the kitchen sink"-feeling of the setting, partly because the contrast between the clichés of pop sci-fi and the (equally clichéd but less mass-marketed) ideas of hard sci-fi forces some interesting logic on the setting.

A small piece of criticism: It seems unrealistic to me that none of the many Dysonian civs would not have thought of the danger of outsiders and spent at least a fraction of the available energy on an intelligence who could create defensive measures that could stand up to the military might of the other factions. I mean, our incredibly primitive civilization already thinks a lot about the possible danger of alien invasion, and we have every reason to believe we're the only intelligent species in the observable universe! The simplest logic would tell you that the possible obliteration of your civilization by hostile xenos, however unlikely, is a scenario so disastrous in terms of potential lost hedonic points or whatever they use to rate value, that it warrants at least some insurance.

One of my favorite cop-outs is to allow for the creation of baby universe via artificial black holes. If there's a way to create new sub-universes and "encode" the plasmic matter within via manipulation of the energy/matter that reaches the event horizon of a black hole, it should be "possible" to create an entire world that is eternal and contains nothing but densely packed computronium that can contain an arbitrarily large number of minds for an infinite amount of time. In effect, such a civilization would move out of reality as we know it and leave nothing but a black hole while they spend eternity making anime real or whatever. (No, I'm not jelly. Totally not.)

Side note; my own preferred solution to the Fermi paradox is that any sufficiently advanced  civilization develops the capacity to initiate a vacuum metastability event, destroying their entire universe. This might happen by accident when trying to harness zero-point energy, or it might be a deliberate suicidal act by some individual or group. In any case, the anthropic principle dictates that we must live in a universe in which the universe has not been destroyed. Which means no-one can have developed the capacity to create a VME yet. Which means humans probably will. Which means we're pretty important, in that two trillion galaxies will die by our puny hands. Nobody tell Trump.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to PinkJenkin [2017-02-16 22:47:18 +0000 UTC]

The token hard sci-fi hikikomori civs.  I really enjoy the nods you make to the common tropes of modern trans-/posthumanist fiction and futurist speculation, and your explanations for why they're not as common as the Ray Kurzweils and Nick Bostroms among us might want or believe to be realistic. Partly because it completes the "everything but the kitchen sink"-feeling of the setting, partly because the contrast between the clichés of pop sci-fi and the (equally clichéd but less mass-marketed) ideas of hard sci-fi forces some interesting logic on the setting.Thanks! Yes, hard science fiction tropes make explaining the space opera away tricky, but ultimately fun. 
A small piece of criticism: It seems unrealistic to me that none of the many Dysonian civs would not have thought of the danger of outsiders and spent at least a fraction of the available energy on an intelligence who could create defensive measures that could stand up to the military might of the other factions. I mean, our incredibly primitive civilization already thinks a lot about the possible danger of alien invasion, and we have every reason to believe we're the only intelligent species in the observable universe! The simplest logic would tell you that the possible obliteration of your civilization by hostile xenos, however unlikely, is a scenario so disastrous in terms of potential lost hedonic points or whatever they use to rate value, that it warrants at least some insurance.They do put up defenses, but they aren't enough to repel the major powers. While they do put up defenses, they almost always guess that alien civilizations have access to resources far below what they actually have access to; they've posited that those weird signals are coming from an interstellar civilization, but they are often surprised to encounter an actual galactic civilization. They also have a far more "sane" sense of resource use that makes things like World Fortresses absurd to them: why would someone waste that much time and energy building a moon-sized battlestation for the specific purpose of blowing up planets? It's so stupid that they never think anyone who could achieve spaceflight would build such a thing, until they meet the "idiots" that did. Dysonian civilizations do put up a fight, but the wider galaxy packs a lot of firepower, and when they are uninterested in the local real estate, they will just destroy everything at ranges measured in astronomical units. 
One of my favorite cop-outs is to allow for the creation of baby universe via artificial black holes. If there's a way to create new sub-universes and "encode" the plasmic matter within via manipulation of the energy/matter that reaches the event horizon of a black hole, it should be "possible" to create an entire world that is eternal and contains nothing but densely packed computronium that can contain an arbitrarily large number of minds for an infinite amount of time. In effect, such a civilization would move out of reality as we know it and leave nothing but a black hole while they spend eternity making anime real or whatever. (No, I'm not jelly. Totally not.)I actually picture the Second Empire successfully doing this, and that's the reason they tried to destroy the black hole in the galactic core.
 Side note; my own preferred solution to the Fermi paradox is that any sufficiently advanced  civilization develops the capacity to initiate a vacuum metastability event, destroying their entire universe. This might happen by accident when trying to harness zero-point energy, or it might be a deliberate suicidal act by some individual or group. In any case, the anthropic principle dictates that we must live in a universe in which the universe has not been destroyed. Which means no-one can have developed the capacity to create a VME yet. Which means humans probably will. Which means we're pretty important, in that two trillion galaxies will die by our puny hands. Nobody tell Trump.My favorite is that while life is common, intelligent life (or at least, radio-building life) is exceedingly rare because intelligence is a major gamble that doesn't pay off most of the time. When you compare a lifeform that takes decades to reach sexual maturity, but can figure out pi, and compare that to a lifeform which can walk as soon as it hatches and reproduce a week later, the latter is more successful. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

PinkJenkin In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-17 14:25:17 +0000 UTC]

"Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." Take that, filthy xenos and your filthy logic!

Hold on, I'm not sure I understand ... did the Second Empire's less evil population retreat into a basement universe and are still hanging out there? Or was it just a small part of their civilization?

I think an argument can be made for sexual reproduction being an objectively dumb form of reproduction (why spend energy to perpetuate 50% of your genome when you can create offspring with 100% of your genetic material for the same cost?) while also being necessary for complex life forms. I wouldn't be surprised if single-celled organisms and asexual plants/fungi were common in the galaxy, but bisexual organisms were a wholly tellurian phenomenon. That would make for a rather boring setting, though ...

"Mister Spock, any exotically colored alien babes on this week's planet? A culture of aggressive warriors? Strange god-like beings who challenge our very conception of science and rationality?"
"Sorry, captain. The dominant life-form is a kind of asexual slime mold."
"Oh for fuck's sake."

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to PinkJenkin [2017-02-17 15:11:49 +0000 UTC]

Hold on, I'm not sure I understand ... did the Second Empire's less evil population retreat into a basement universe and are still hanging out there? Or was it just a small part of their civilization?Part of it did, it got taken over by one Cog Lord and the others decided to show it who's boss by trying to destroy the black hole at the center of the galaxy. 

I think an argument can be made for sexual reproduction being an objectively dumb form of reproduction (why spend energy to perpetuate 50% of your genome when you can create offspring with 100% of your genetic material for the same cost?) while also being necessary for complex life forms. I wouldn't be surprised if single-celled organisms and asexual plants/fungi were common in the galaxy, but bisexual organisms were a wholly tellurian phenomenon. That would make for a rather boring setting, though ...I believe this is the generally accepted view in biology. Do note that most organisms on Earth today are single-celled and reproduce asexually. The biomass of all the bacteria on Earth exceeds that of all plants and animals. I suspect the same is true for the universe at large.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

qwertz89 In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-17 04:03:10 +0000 UTC]

is the black hole still there?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

BadgingBadger [2017-02-16 14:14:59 +0000 UTC]

Will you make an entry on the Cog Lords? I want to know what they actually are.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

RvBOMally In reply to BadgingBadger [2017-02-16 16:36:01 +0000 UTC]

This adequately explains it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

TLhikan In reply to BadgingBadger [2017-02-16 16:03:17 +0000 UTC]

Looking back on the older entries, Cog Lords are fragments of the Grand Cogitator, an AI that went rampant and nearly wiped out humanity, but was fractured as it tried to transmit itself across the galaxy. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

TerranTechnocrat [2017-02-16 05:40:24 +0000 UTC]

AI; Space Cadet's Chaos?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to TerranTechnocrat [2017-02-16 05:57:07 +0000 UTC]

Pretty much. They distrust aliens, but they cannot stand the idea of an AI civilization. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

TerranTechnocrat In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-16 06:04:28 +0000 UTC]

Given their history, I don't blame them -- although I'm still put off, both emotionally and morally, by the whole completely destroying isolationist civilizations, even based on their capabilities. But, I personally think irl artificial intelligence is the greatest threat to the Human species since the development of weaponized nuclear fission and fusion.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to TerranTechnocrat [2017-02-16 06:11:24 +0000 UTC]

Note that the alien civilizations in Space Cadet agree with humanity on this. It's not a xenophobia thing. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

TerranTechnocrat In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-16 06:23:54 +0000 UTC]

It's not whether or not it's motivated by xenophobia that bothers me, also, census among species doesn't make me feel better. They're in a single system -- they've been in this system for millions of years, slowly evolving, doing their own thing, with their own myriad of bizarre and ugly cultures -- as diverse as Mankind -- build up a completely self-sustained civilization with extremely advanced technology -- then some other bigger aliens who've decided to spread out into the universe come along and just destroy all of that. You'll have to forgive me for this, but it's always made me feel... icky inside. It doesn't just seem wrong to me, it feels almost wasteful. But I really don't want to get into an argument about xenocide in Space Cadet, because I know you seem to get bugged 'cause I bring it up too often, and you've well established your thoughts on the matter.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to TerranTechnocrat [2017-02-16 06:28:47 +0000 UTC]

Just one point of order: none of the Dysonian civilizations are millions of years old. They are, at most, tens of thousands of years old. Something came around and swept the Space Cadet galaxy clean of intelligent life millions of years ago. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 3

qwertz89 In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-17 14:47:21 +0000 UTC]

there was a big event millions of years ago? It would be nice if you could elaborate (as in give a few more vague details)

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to qwertz89 [2017-02-17 15:12:59 +0000 UTC]

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

qwertz89 In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-17 15:40:36 +0000 UTC]

?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to qwertz89 [2017-02-17 17:31:31 +0000 UTC]

I was agreeing with you. It would be nice if I gave more details.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

qwertz89 In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-18 19:59:59 +0000 UTC]

you could write an update about this event, which describes some basic details, discusses possible causes, but mention there is not enough evidence to come to a definite conclusion

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to qwertz89 [2017-02-18 20:00:38 +0000 UTC]

I could do this.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AltruisticHedonist In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-16 22:30:01 +0000 UTC]

Utterly incomprehensible eldritch abominations, I suppose? I think you mentioned it before. Seeping Ink, was it?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to AltruisticHedonist [2017-02-17 15:16:54 +0000 UTC]

The Seeping Ink is old enough to be a candidate.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

TerranTechnocrat In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-16 06:32:52 +0000 UTC]

Species is what I meant; not civilizations. The respective civilizations' species. I took it the Human species in Space Cadet isn't only tens of thousand of years old?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

PachPachis [2017-02-16 04:22:19 +0000 UTC]

The Solarians are right. Hedonic engines are a road with a sign at the end that says "full Skynet - next right".

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

RvBOMally In reply to PachPachis [2017-02-16 04:28:08 +0000 UTC]

It's always nice when the bullshit copout from the strident ideological position actually makes sense.  

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

PachPachis In reply to RvBOMally [2017-02-16 06:43:13 +0000 UTC]

Something something stopped clock twice a day.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0