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Silly-Blue — Ellen and little Emily
Published: 2009-05-02 13:19:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 2687; Favourites: 48; Downloads: 9
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This is some sort of response to this: [link] :3(Thanks goes out to ~K-Whittington for suggesting that I should draw an Emily-Ellen picture for a change *lol*)
Emily holds on to her mother's skirt! I think it's funny to compare the two pictures >w<
The look Emily's wearing seems to say: don't go away mommy! Slightly different than the shy expression chibi Kanda wears on the previous picture *lol*
Just a random observation: Ellen is about 20 in this picture and she does look different than she did on the one with chibi Kanda ;3
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Comments: 304
Ellen has become a better fighter, and very quickly. I hope they have a hoenst spar, and Kanda does not hold back (though he would...). He would feel proud over her progress, because she was his student.
I think that knowing she has made so much progress would give Ellen more confidence, and would help her become more independent.
It would definitely backfire on Kanda. Ellen is afraid already that her marriage will be a prison. I think if Kanda tried to confine her too soon in their marriage, it will set the tone of their marriage. And not matter how many times Kanda would say that he wants her to be his equal, she would always remember that he played the Husband Card and overpowered her.
Tyki did accuse Cyril of only marrying so he could adopt Rhode. And as a minister, being a married man is a good image. I doubt people would have been willing in the Victorian era to elect a man who did not have a wife. It was very good for the public image. I think if a Noah marries, it is for an advantage. After all, the Noah do not like humans.
I hope Mana only had the best of intentions for Ellen.
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That's true. Kanda and Ellen should have a real spar. Maybe I'll make them fight after Lulubell's attack just like in the Manga (well, a bit less wild probably *lol*). Kanda would probably hold back at first, but then he'd see that she is too strong to go easy on her. He'll have to put effort into it so as not to embarrass himself *lol*
And he certainly would be proud, even though he might feel uneasy about her being so strong (not stronger than him though - I guess)
Well, I think that it's important that they move towards equality very early on in their relationship. Kanda would probably want to keep her in check from time to time, but he wouldn't abuse the power he has. I do not know how Japanese families were structured back then, but I think that it was usually the man who was superior as well. But Kanda probably has too much regard for Ellen to treat her like nothing more than an object he can control as he wishes to...
Yes, of course. But a Noah doesn't necessarily have to interact with humans. We haven't seen Lulubell interacting with humans yet, so maybe the woman just stay in the shadows while the men try to meddle with human affairs...
(And I agree, Cyril seems to do things because they're conveniant)
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Well, Kanda would not like to fight her at first, because she is the mother of his child and still pregnant. I'd love to see the look on Kanda's face when he realizes that Ellen is very good at fighting. He never saw her fight since they parted in Switzerland, right? He has no idea how far she has come. And there would be an audience watching them spar, he couldn't let others know that he was defeated by his pregnant wife/a girl.
In time, Ellen might be stronger than Kanda! And when she becomes a Noah, she will have faster healing powers.
Japanese families still saw women as inferior, but women still managed to have an interesting amount of strength. I know that women would manage the household and its finances. Love was not a big part of a marriage and could be a threat. Wives also encouraged their husbands to go to geisha. But that was probably the upper class.
Kanda would not be satisfied with a wife who merely serves him and does as he wishes her to. At least I hope not.
We don't see much of Lulubell. She seems very dedicated to the Earl (calling him "master"), and she's never seem mingling with humans. She seemed to almost feel betrayed when Allen destroyed the egg...
Cyril does seem to find family life fulfilling. He even wants Tyki to marry.
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Yes, they haven't seen eachother fight in a very long time, Kanda really has no idea of all the things Ellen has accomplished during these months of separation... Of course, even though she is his wife, he cannot possibly lose to her! That would be too humiliating!
Rabi already warned Kanda (somewhere) that Ellen could surpass him, but I doubt he believed him. But right now they certainly seem to move towards equality in fighting strenght. Allen relies on emotional power boosts alot (like when he fought against Tyki), so that means in such times he might even be stronger than Kanda, which should be true for Ellen as well. But Kanda just has a lot more energy stored away, he can keep going and going and going and can also boost his power thanks to the various releases of his Mugen... Well, who knows who is stronger right now, but an awakening as Noah would probably push Ellen quite a bit.
No, Kanda didn't fall in love because she was such a docile girl, obeying all the time. He did like her most because she was still somewhat odd - strong and determined despite being a girl (and clearly having very girly moments). He would want her to continue being strong, so that she can also support herself, even though he sees is as a husbands duty to care for his wife.
Poor Lulubell, she did want to take Allen to the Earl, so having the Egg destroyed by him must have been bad.
And for now, I cannot really take Cyril seriously! But his over the top concern for his family, his daughter and Tyki (and him getting married) are entertaining.
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Ellen will at least put up a good fight, and pull some pretty dirty and sneaky moves to prolong her defeat... Like when Allen pretended to give up, just to drag Kanda to the ground.
Ellen's weapon is a part of her body, so there would be a psycho-somatic connection. From her emotions, she could derive adrenaline and strength and push beyond her normal boundaries. And since her weapon is a parasitic, the weapon could try and live on through her, so the weapon might push her farther just to survive.
Kanda has years of training over Ellen, so it might be a while before she out performs him.
It seems like they will have a very rough beginning to their marriage. Ellen is retreating to a role she is more comfortable with (not that she likes that submssive role, but thinks it is what she has to do) while Kanda will have to convince her she is fine the way she was before (like when they argued a lot).
One character remarked that Lulubell was crying very bitterly after failing to retrieve the egg.
I wonder what Cyril's powers are? It is hard to take him seriously, but he must be very dangerous.
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Of course, Kanda still says that Allen makes a lot of unnecessary movements, because he was not trained to be a fighter I guess. But I think he did make some progress, especially while training with Foh in the Asia Branch.
Ellen probably made her progress then as well; she was not very stong and didn't know how to fight, but she was keen on learning. Of course, beig able to fight is also a necessity now. But it still will take time for Ellen to surpass Kanda and I doubt she even has such aims...
Kanda might try to find a balance between how they acted before and how he wants to act now that they are married. But Ellen will probably have more troubles... But once she really is married to Kanda and cannot undo it she will probably become calmer (only worrying again when it gets to having to tell other people that she is married). As she had always been fond of Kanda she must also want to return to a more comfortable behaviour around him. She just does not really know how she can behave, she only has a feeling how she should behave (also she might not allow herself to enjoy Kanda's love yet, because she should still feel guilty)
I guess that was Cyril saying that Lulubell cried. But I wonder why exactly...
Cyril also seems dangerous because he has a powerful position in human society. He can start wars when there should have been peace.
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Who knows what Kanda thinks are unnecessary movements. But it probably is accurate. Most martial arts are about conserving movement and not wasting energy.
I would think that Cross would have had Allen train in some martial arts, but maybe some influences from his childhood could effect his fighting style.
Foh was probably tougher than Kanda was on Ellen. Foh did not hold back and came at her intending to harm. While Kanda always kept in mind to pull back on his attacks as to not seriously harm Ellen. Ellen learned basic combat from Kanda, but I think Foh was really the master in polishing Ellen's fighting. Ellen probably advanced more with Foh attacking and not holding back.
Well, Kanda wants to be more intimate with Ellen now (not just physically) and know he can confide in her. But he must also want to maintain their companionship (like when they were fighting and arguing).
It seems that Ellen does love Kanda, but it is her mother's views that hold Ellen back from accepting her marriage/relationship to Kanda. Now that they are married, Ellen doesn't really need to think about what her mother would say. It isn't like Charlene can really stop it. But Ellen also feels she should not enjoy her marriage, because they only married because of responsibility.
I thought Lulubell was crying because she had completely failed her mission and the Earl.
Yeah, Cyril is more dangerous. Because of his posotion in human society, he was able to orchestrate a war.
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Well, I have a hard time picturing Cross teaching anything to Allen. I guess most of what he can do he picked up out of necessity (and for the circus performances). He also fights with his entire body, giving the type of Innocence he wields.
I also think that Foh was a more demanding teacher than Kanda was. She didn't give a damn about Ellen's condition - at least while fighting. After all, Ellen had the feeling that she had to fight for her life (or at least fight if she didn't want to be hurt all too badly) so she must be more serious about training with Foh.
Ellen does love Kanda, but not unconditionally. She would like to love him but knows that she should not and feels guilty for having allowed herself to accept his affection. She did give him hopes that she would return the feelings while she actually couldn't - because it was not proper.
Well, now's the time to just deal with what they've got. The fact that they are in the Black Order and their marriage is still a secret, she does not really have to act like a wife to him, only when they are alone. Maybe that would also help calming her down; she would see that Kanda's still the same as before, he won't treat her differently now. So maybe she could also go back to how she behaved towards him and be sincere about her feelings...
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Hm, Cross is the type to foist Allen on to other people. Through Cross' acquaintances, some of them might have taught Allen various skills: martial arts and guns? I imagine Allen picked a lot of skills on his own (like gambling).
I do like Foh, and she would have trained Ellen to defend herself and never go easy on the girl. Ellen must have found it a relief that Foh never went easy on her, at least not for the sake of her child.
Keeping their marriage secret seems like the best situation for Ellen. Though their relationship has changed legally, they can continue to act in a comfortable manner. Ellen would not want their relationship to alter to fast, and the secret keeps it so. I suppose there will be a moment of panic when their marriage is made public- Ellen won't know how to act. She would wonder if she has to act submissive or as she usually does.
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Well, yes. As far as Kanda is concerned their marriage should be public, or at least be known to Komui and their friends. He sees no sense in keeping it secret for too long. Their relationship probably cannot and should not be concealed any longer (both Rabi and Linali know anyway). Well, it's hard to say if their relationship would gain wide approval, but certainly seeing that a lot of people approve would help Ellen feel better. It's not as if she would be condemned by them because she chose a boyfriend so different to herself.
But I assume that Ellen would still feel very uneasy when it became known because then she would have to explain why she ended up marrying Kanda and she might feel the need to justify herself - even though as far as the members of the Order are concerned, it's solely her business to decide who to love. But knowing Ellen she would try to keep appearances; if she's a wife then she should behave how a wife is expected to behave - at least that's what she might assume. But it might be a bit problematic to be submissive to Kanda who does not approve of it, he might misunderstand her submissiveness as reluctancy to be really intimate (on an emotional level) with him...
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Kanda does not really see the point of keeping their marriage a secret, and has nothing to lose from it becoming public knowledge. Ellen hasn't even told her mother yet.
Ellen woudl definitely feel the need to justify herself. Especially where she married without her mother's consent and will not be able to fight for some time.
Ellen explaining her submissive behavior to Kabda will be an uncomfortable conversation, but probably a necessary one.
Ellen still hasn't been able to tell what Kanda thinks of marriage, so all she can assume if that he is very traditional. So her only refuge is to act submissive and hope to meet expectations. I suppose her friends would be horrified if they caught her acting subservient (and might think it was because Kanda stated a preference for it)
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But if Ellen tried to explain why she behaved submissive then Kanda might ridicule her behaviour and upbringing. I don't know if Ellen is willing to face that; I doubt she really wants to be submissive, because it would feel odd, but according to what she knows a wife does have to listen to what her husband says, especially if she sees herself as being flawed; he has all right to controll her, or so she might think. But that doesn't really match with her wish to feel equal... If they do talk openly, Kanda might reassure her that he likes to be on equal grounds with her...
Of course, Ellen has no idea what Kanda really expects, that he is traditional she knew beforehand. But she also doesn't know what he - as a Japanese - would want of her.
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Their relationship is so complicated and it does not help they have not really talked.
I'm glad to know that Ellen herself does not enjoy being submissive, and just feels she has to. I hope she realizes how contradictory her feelings are- she wants to be a proper wife, but also be on equal terms with Kanda.
It would not really be beneficial to Kanda to ridicule Ellen for her worries. After all, he is trying to show that he can support her emotionally and will not look down on her. Telling her that the beliefs she holds are ridiculous will not help Kanda change those views.
Ellen will probably experience some discomfort over her disjointed feelings.
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Ellen just has some ideas what a marriage could be like (maybe she put bits and pieces of what she heard from her relatvies and read in novels together to form an idea about it). She certainly wants a happy marriage, without being required to be submissive, but with Kanda she can't know. Also she doesn't know what her mother would suggest doing with a foreign husband. But I think that equality in marriage should be a topic around the turn of the century, so maybe Ellen would also have ideas about that in her head...
Of course not; anything Kanda says at the moment could backfire on him. But they could deal with eachothers flaws very well before the topic of marriage came up, Ellen just needs to remember how good and protected Kanda made her feel in the past. She's just not seeing clearly at the moment... But it's certainly good that Kanda's keeping his calm...
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If being submissive and subservient was her idea of marriage, why did she seem to eager (before she conceived Emily) to want to be married? Was it because before she joined the Order, she had been really meek?
If Kanda really got angry and said something cruel, it would definitely back fire. And if their marriage still isn't publicly known, she just might avoid him.
I read chapter 44, is their marriage going to be revealed at the meeting?
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I guess it wasn't her ideal image of how women should behave as wives. Well, being married to a good man was a desirable goal - if Ellen got a lot of information out of reading novels then she might have gotten the idea from there: they mostly ended with a marriage after all - it seems like a good goal for any heroine... And there is of course her mother who wanted her to be married because Ellen didn't seem like a person who could sustain herself on her own...
No, it won't get revealed at the meeting, but soon after. Komui will know and probably anybody close to Kanda and Ellen will know as well (I still must think about how I should make Linali angry with Ellen for not saying anything). Ellen cannot avoid Kanda then, but I think she doesn't really want to avoid him (unless he makes her angry *lol*)
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Charlene`s perception of Ellen as someone who cannot sustain herself on her own and needs a husband, seem like something Charlene did to Ellen. It was nothing inherent in Ellen that made her submissive, but more of what Charlene taught and instilled in her.
Komui would have to be told, because of the pregnancy, so he might try to give Ellen easier missions (like innocence retrieval).
Linali will be very angry, especially if she hears it from someone else than Ellen. They had agreed to be friends and share information with each other, and Ellen did not do that (though I understand Ellen`s reluctance to mention her past transgression).
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Well, Ellen wasn't a very strong-willed child either (of course, as a young adult she has her own head). She was just a spoiled princess who didn't even have to bind her own shoe-laces. Nobody expected her to be a remarkable girl; but Charlene did care about educating her and travelling a lot (but of course Ellen could only see and experience what her relatives wanted her to) - I think she wanted to hide her from London society and make her self-sufficient on one hand, but also leave room for further developments. And Mana tried to get Ellen a broader view of the world and make her enjoy a life a bit less constrained and a bit more independant (but he still watched her all the time). But I do agree; her family thought her how to be submissive. And I doubt Ellen really questioned that - but now, in the kind of situation she is, she does rather want equality... Or maybe she is mature enough to know that equality can be achieved and that there is no need to be submissive.
Working towards making Ellen a good wife seemed a better option than just letting her roam free with strange ideas in her head - she is "cursed" after all and there are a lot of things Ellen needed to be protected from. (But of course, her marriage with a Noah would have been everything else than beneficial, so Ellen is lucky that Cross "discovered" her before she got engaged)
Well, Cross said that there will be no exceptions made for her. But as the Vatican stuff comes up now there aren't any missions right now anyway... But I bet Komui would at least try to go easy on Ellen (even if he can't always achieve it)
Linali will probably understand as well, but she would still have wanted to be told. So that they could share their thoughts and Ellen could have someone to rely on. You can't talk to Kanda about pregnancy problems (well, of course Ellen could try talking to Kanda about anything and I guess he would even make an effort to listen... But with questionable outcome), that's what Linali would be for.
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During her time at the Order, she is being exposed to very different people and is away from the influence and control of her family. It seems to have developed her for the better, but she is having some trouble due to her pregnancy and abrupt marriage.
Hm, Ellen would have had to break her engagement to Tyki if she had been found too late by Cross. That would have been another embarrassment for her family. Or if she had been discovered after her marriage...
I don`t think women were encouraged to confide in their husbands about woman problems. So Linali woudl be a good choice, and be someone Ellen can confide in about things she would never tell Kanda. possible how uncomfortable pregnancy is. Telling Kanda would just make him very uncomfortable...
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Well, Ellen probably doesn't really feel at ease yet at the order; she is only close to Kanda, Rabi and Linali. If there were more people she would feel at home with she might have been so troubled by her situation because she could have confided in her friends or even the other people. But I guess she doesn't trust them to understand her.
But I do agree that being away from the order has helped her
I didn't even think about that, but sure, breaking off an engagement would be a blow to Charlene. Not necessarily because the family's reputation though (but it probably would have suffered), but because Charlene is anxious to secure Ellen's future. But I don't think that Charlene wanted Ellen to marry at such a young age.
Yes. I doubt Kanda would like to hear about certain things, even though he would probably listen to whatever Ellen wants to tell him or he might have told her to go to Linali with her problems because he can't help her. Kanda probably would feel awkward if Ellen complains about her pregnancy, unless they are on really good terms by then, then he'd probably tell her to stop complaining (even though he would pity her)
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The Order really was not what she expected it to be, and I think that might have unbalanced her as well. She thought it was a convent, with no men. That also might influence her reluctance to tell Charlene about her marriage.
Since their marriage is a secret, Ellen is even more isolated from the people around her. She does not know where she stands with Kanda at the moment and is very uncomfortable with him. Her friendship with Rabi is strained because of what happened on the Arc and she does not want to be judged so harshly. And she has kept a big secret from Linali which will strain their friendship. Ellen, at the moment, is very alone in the Order and does not have anyone to confide in.
Breaking off an engagement would severely effect Ellen's marriageability. It is already known in high society that there is something wrong with Ellen Bermont. And to break off an engagement to a marquis, people would really wonder. Young men would not want to marry such a girl.
I don't think Ellen would complain to Kanda. Ellen has a certain idea of what a husband and wife talk about, and pregnancy problems isn't it.
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You're right. Ellen is alone at the moment - but mostly because she chose to position herself in such an isolated spot because of what you mentioned. But that will change sooner or later; Ellen will talk to Rabi (but if there's anything good coming out of that talk...?) and Linali will soon find out, but I think she won't be angry for long. And it probably won't go all too fast to mend the relationship with Kanda - but I think now that they are actually married the situation is better (even though now it would be the time to confess to her mother)
Well, I don't think many people know about Ellen's "defect" because she was not out in society yet - but sure, people will probably talk because Ellen never or rarely appears in public. And the news of her breaking off such a good engagement (to enter a convent!) would probably spread like wildfire and then her other relatived would probably start asking questions...
Even if Kanda and Ellen weren't married there must still be certain things the two do not talk about. Kanda especially doesn't talk much, but Ellen was more open when they had no relationship. But there certainly are topics that Victorian people don't openly talk about (which is still the same today, just with different topics I guess?) - pregnancy was one of them, maybe sexuality as well. But I can't really imagine Kanda and Ellen sitting down to discuss their sex life anyway... X3 (But Ellen does seem to have certain ideas about what sexuality in married life should be like...)
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I'm not sure if Ellen is totally responsible for getting herself into such an isolated spot. It certainly isn't all her fault that she slept with Kanda (though in the recent chapter she says it is and Kanda seems to confirm it). Kanda made the moves to sleep with her, and she just didn't reject them.
Friends at this historical point would not have talked about sex, so Ellen was right to keep the information to herself, and why would she tell anyone about it? She wasn't happy or proud of it.
Charlene probably would have gone to great lengths to cover Ellen's defect up. To society, Ellen might have been a well protected girl. Breaking off the engagement to enter a convent certainly would have become news quickly. I'm not sure if it would reflect badly on Tyki or the Bermont family.
Today, sex seems like a very common topic. I was at the grocery store and almost every magazine mentioned a couple' sex life and how to improve. I think for today, money might be something obsessed about, but we don't ask people how much they earn in a year.
Sexuality was definitely something that was never discussed in the Victorian age, at least not with women.
The Japanese had very different views about sexuality than the Victorians did. The Japanese were fairly open about sex at this time. In some paintings, women are said to even initiate sex and take control of it. So Kanda might have a completely different opinion about sex and might be more adventurous.
Ellen's view of a couple's sex life is probably that Kanda should want it and that she should not, but still perform her wifely duties. She also would have been taught not to enjoy it.
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It's not entirely Ellen's fault, but she could easily get out of part of her isolation if she confides in her friends. Well, of course it's not her fault that she slept with Kanda, but both might feel that she had the power to stop it. Kanda gave in to his own love for her, but he would have stopped if she had given a clear sign that it went too far. She didn't apparently. But I doubt that she would have stopped him even if she didn't want to sleep with him.
Well, Rabi knew that Ellen and Kanda slept together, but Ellen was not at all happy about him knowing. She probably feels that it's not Kanda's business to talk about it to somebody else. But maybe Linali would want to know how Ellen experienced the situation and maybe, just maybe, Ellen would talk about it then (and I'm sure Kanda would love to hear it, but I think the chances of Ellen telling him are slim)
Tyki wouldn't mind either way I guess - he has no real interest in the Bermont girl. And family reputation doesn't really mean any to him I guess...
Even if the Japanese are more open towards sexuality I don't think Kanda knows much about it. He left home too early for it to be a concern to him (at least I guess. I think he turned up at the Black Order when he was about 10?). Maybe Kanda's take on sexuality depends on who he grew up with. He got a lot of information about sex from Rabi, but he discovered that it was different from what he had heard it to be like.
Hm, well, I think Ellen can't help enjoying it anyway - if Kanda does it right (and Ellen doesn't hinder herself by feelings of "no I should not!") X3
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Ellen still seems to trained in her society of discretion. She knows she should not tell Linali, because good girls do not have sex before marriage. Ellen has no way of knowing how Linali feels about that, or if Linali would have thought less of her or worse, told people that Ellen was "loose". It was a very delicate situation and I think Ellen's best option was to keep silent. Even though it is unfair that a girls "purity" is more valued that a mans, and Linali might have accepted Ellen.
Ellen still must be pretty upset with Kanda for telling Rabi that "sensitive" bit of information. I guess she hasn't had a chance to tell him yet, and the fact she is hesitant to criticize him for anything so early in their marriage.
I think Ellen woudl benefit from being able to talk to Linali in a more open manner, including her relationship with Kanda. Linali has the benefit of being older, more world-traveled and knowing Kanda longer.
I've actually heard confusing information about sexuality in Japan. It seems to change historically. I know that love was not an important part of marriage and not necessary. I wonder how much Kanda has been influenced on his beliefs. I don't he woudl believe that sex is bad and isn't to be enjoyed. Or that Ellen's enjoyment is inconsequential. I think he would try and make sure they both enjoyed being together.
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Well, Ellen should know that Linali would probably put Ellen's own happiness above any rules. She would not have judged Ellen for loving Kanda. But in Ellen's point of view keeping silent was really the best option she had... And she didn't really have the time to confess it... But it would be bad if Linali didn't find out directly from Kanda or Ellen...
I guess Kanda knows that Ellen won't be very fond of him telling private details... But Kanda felt the need to tell his comrades about his relationship with Ellen. He just couldn't keep it for himself. Which is uncharacteristic but oh well. But I can still imagine Kanda going to Rabi and telling him how well Ellen's breast have developped *lol* (Maybe he likes to brag?)
I think that Kanda does things how they seem right to him. And when it gets to Ellen he doesn't care about convention and rules or even duty. He puts her and their happiness above everything else... The only problem is that Ellen's idea of happiness doesn't seem to be the same as his.
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Even if Ellen had told Linali, Linali would have wanted to talk about it. Ellen firmly wanted to pretend it had never happened. I really do hope Ellen is the one to tell Linali about their marriage and baby. Otherwise, it will take even longer to repair their friendship.
Though I think Linali will be excited about a baby, even if a little sad (because the child will grow up in the middle of a war, where Ellen and Kanda might nor survive).
Guys think differently about private matters I guess.
Well, Kanda does believe he is lucky to have a very beautiful wife, so I guess he would like to brag. Though whenever Kanda does complement her, she worries he isn't being sincere about it.
Ellen needs to get a more practical view of happiness. They are exorcist, they only get one life to live, and a short life at that. It is unreasonable for Ellen to put the expectations of society above her own wants. Even more so since the society she is judging herself against has no impact on her exorcist life.
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I agree, Linali will see Ellen's pregnancy in a good light, at least mostly, of course it's sad that she can't have a normal relationship or family life because of the war, but she will be optimistic, maybe even more than Ellen used to be.
Well, I guess that Ellen hopes to return to society once they have won the war. But she has realized that the war might take longer and have a greater inpact on her life than she would have guessed. She will probably come to be able to form her own ideas of what her life after the war should look like. She probably no longer exects her mother to marry her to someone, especially as her mother's choice was not really a good match... Well, her mother might still try, but even Charlene will see that being an exorcist has changed Ellen and that she can no longer expect her to lead a normal life...
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I think Linali would like to have a child in the Order-someone to look babysit. As exorcists, they are missing out on a lot of normal life-experiences. So Emily could be a way for them to live out something normal. Linali might be able to influence Ellen and get her to think more positively about having a child, like talking about baby clothes and names.
Will Ellen eventually disregard high society?
I really do want Ellen to become an independent thinker and have her own opinions, instead of doing what her mother wants.
I don't think it would be possible for any exorcist to live a normal life- they have seen people die in gruesome ways and have experienced war. I wouldn't be surprised if some people ended up with mental problems (such as Post-traumatic stress disorder). Even after the war, would any exorcist be able to relax?
Though it will be interesting when Charlene realizes all of the changes in Ellen. And it would like to see Ellen get nagry with Charlene for trying to have her marry Tyki- what right does Charlene have to criticize Ellen's choice in a husband when Charlene had made a much worse choice?
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I can imagine that very well; a child would maybe help them pretend that they lead a normal life. Linali has her brother and her friends, but the order is still a prison... Linali and Rabi would be funny babysitters! I wonder who Kanda would entrust his daughter to X3
I guess that Ellen will chose a quiet life mostly away from high society. But I doubt she can give up on it entirely because of her family members. But she can teach her children a different mind-set. Even if she does not turn away from high-society, she should later on be aware of it's flaws and condemn them (even at the danger of making her mother angry with her).
Certainly, there will never be real normality for exorcists, because the images of what they've lived through will not leave them, maybe also the fear that any human might be an enemy will stay with them (even though Ellen does not really know that fear all too well)
Well, Charlene probably did expect Ellen to change when she is away from home. But somehow I think that Charlene could appreciate an independant thinking daughter because that would mean that Ellen was able to fend for herself. But it certainly will be a blow when Ellen starts to talk back at her. And if Charlene is told that the man she chose was a bad choice she might not try to marry her to anybody else ever again (also, Ellen is already married anyway).
Charlene's own marriage was a good one, even though it probably was arranged, so maybe she had hoped that Ellen would also be happy with Tyki (or any other man of her choice). But of course, Ellen could not be happy with Tyki, even if they weren't exorcist and Noah. Tyki is Tyki after all.
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Kanda would probably entrust his child with Marie, because they are team mates and have known each other a long time. Kanda might even ask Tiedoll to babysit his daughter. Though he would chose Linali over Rabi.
I would like to see the future Ellen not afraid to risk her mother's anger.
It is easy to imagine any exorcist not being able to relax after the war and accept that there are no more akuma. They spent most of their lives fighting and they don't have a curse like Allen to warn them of Akuma. No way could an exorcist stop being a soldier after the war.
Charlene would want to know why Ellen rejected Tyki and thinks a marquis was a bad choice. Ellen would have to explain her role as an exorcist and that her mother had let her go to war.
Did Charlene's husband know about Ellen's arm?
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Yes, Marie certainly has Kanda's trust. With Rabi one never knows what he'll do *lol* But I doubt Rabi would behave irresponsible when he has to look after a child.
But those who have not spent most of their lives in the order might be able to build up another life. But even the finders mostly joined because there was no other purpose than revenge. It's kind of sad, actually...
Charlene certainly won't be thrilled when she learns about why Ellen rejected Tyki, but I doubt Ellen would want her mother to know everything, she doesn't want her to feel guilty for having let her go with Cross.
Well, Ellen's father probably was not aware what Innocence was, but he knew that his daughter had an abnormal arm. He probably considered it to be a deformation, but nothing all too bad. Charlene seemes to have more problems with her daughter's arm...
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I can imagine Emily being difficult with Rabi, just to get him in trouble. She would probably find her father's "angry face" hilarious.
Ellen would probably try and hide her real occupation to her mother. Charlene would not approve of what Cross had Ellen do, and to leave her unchaperoned with a boy...
Maybe Ellen's father would not have stressed the importance of marriage if he had lived. It might have made Ellen's life easier and a little less stressful.
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Hehe, maybe Emily can have a dark side as well. And as long as Papa's angry face is not directed at her it surely must be funny. And Rabi can deal with it reasonably well. X3
I guess Charlene wouldn't approve of anything that Cross did! Not even Ellen can keep quiet in his company even though she was in a rather depressed state of mind!
I guess if her father had lived everythig would have been easier for Ellen, because Charlene only became so concerned about her daughter and her future place in society when her husband was dead. But because he was dead Ellen had the chance to be raised by Mana instead (which has its good and bad sides)
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Emily will have grown up seeing Kanda's "angry face" and seeing Rabi getting beaten up, but still fine.
Could Kanda ever be angry with Emily?
Being raised by Mana certainly gave her some benefits (like athleticism) but only having her mother constantly around definitely narrowed Ellen's world. Charlene kept Ellen locked up, but maybe her father would have allowed Ellen to move in a wider social circle.
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I guess that Kanda is that kind of father who would not get angry with his children for little things (like breaking stuff or misbehaving) but he might be angry if he sees them endangering themselves. But probably that would be less anger than actually worry about them. So... Uhm maybe just can't get angry with his children even though he can get angry with the entire rest of the universe *lol*
I think that Ellen's father would not have made a fuss about Ellen, at least not like her mother does. He would have given her the freedoms every child of her age and standing should have experienced. At least that's how I imagine him, maybe a bit like Mana... Well, and Mana... He prepared her for her future life, like her mother did, but he was probably more realistic: he knew that her Innocence would not enable her to lead a normal life... Her mother knew as well, but she dealt with it in the wrong way...
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Maybe Kanda would be unable to see flaws in his children...? He might like to think of himself as the type who won't disillusion himself, but when it comes to his children, he just might.
Maybe Ellen's father would have realized treating Ellen like there was something wrong with her, would create a problem. He might have just accepted her arm, known she might not be able to get a husband, and made adjustments to his last will to provide for her.
Mana definitely helped Ellen for the better, and she was able to experience the world in a way her mother would not have let her. Why did Mana never consider telling Charlene the truth about Ellen's arm? I can imagine Charlene hiding Ellen from the Dark Order.
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Well, seeing flaws in his children would also mean seeing flaws in the way he raised them. But it's easy to imagine that he doesn't see any flaws anyway, or if he does he might not mind (maybe he'll just think "well, they inherited that from her mother / me" and then that will be fine for him *lol*)
Hm, yes. I guess her father would have been able to secure a future for Ellen - one where she would not be required to marry anybody... Making daughters / nieces (or other female relatives) inherit was nothing out of the ordinary I think...
Well, we don't know what Mana told Charlene. And we don't know just how much Charlene knows about Innocence and everything connected to it... I guess I can reveal that much: Charlene is aware that she didn't send her daughter to an ordinary convent...
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Would Kanda be the kind of father who dotes on his children and think them perfect? He certainly would be proud of them. Kanda might be satisfied thinking that if his children inherited a "flaw", then it wasn't anyone's fault.
I think father's could let women inherit property and money at this point of time. If DGM is late 19th century, than women can even keep property they brought into their marriage upon a divorce.
So, Charlene let her daughter go to an "unusual convent" but did she know that Ellen would become a soldier?
I think it is a very interesting twist in Ivory Tales that Leverrier and Ellen are related, and it should keep her somewhat-safe, for now. But he will have to accept that Ellen will eventually be a Noah, and will probably reject his niece.
Does Lverrier have any plans of suggesting a marriage between Link and Ellen?
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I guess Kanda would think his children perfect, maybe he might see some flaws when they grow up to be teenagers, but while they're still children he'll just overlook any flaws. But I guess he could still be a strict father if he needs to...
Well, that certainly would be good. Ellen and Kanda haven't even thought about what would happen to their property (or Ellen's property) upon their marriage, but as they've only had a rushed marriage that has been completely ignored for the moment. But if Ellen had to forfeit all of her property then Charlene would have no interest in forcing a divorce upon her daughter. Well, as it stands, it's probably save to assume that neither Ellen nor Kanda brought anything into their marriage...
Charlene probably doesn't know what exactly exorcists do... She might have heard something about Innocence, but she probably doesn't know that there's a real war going on between Akuma and exorcists and that Ellen has to participate. She knows that it won't be easy for Ellen though. But continuing the way she lived before Cross came (after killing Mana) probably wouldn't have been better...
Leverrier will probably be torn between their need to use the 14th and protecting Ellen. He would rather protect her, but for the sake of the Vatican, he needs to use her. I doubt that he will reject her once she turns into a Noah, they still need her. But he might just lock her away instead of killing her...
I wanted him to suggest a marriage between Link and Ellen, but it's already too late for that now. Ellen is already married after all. He might be on Charlene's side though, trying to dissolve the marriage of Kanda and Ellen. And then he could suggest Link - if Ellen were married to Link, someone who is very loyal to Leverrier, he would still have the chance to watch her / control her...
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I don't really know if Kanda would end up pampering his children... I don't think he would consciously do it. As children, he would write any flaw as just a phase a child will grow out of. He might see his children very differently as adults.
Kanda would still insist on discipline. He would not allow them to sleep in during mornings and would have them train.
Charlene woudl not be able to do anything about property if her husband left in in his will for Ellen. Usually, property would only be given to her when she comes of age. There were even clauses in legal contracts to protect the property from husbands. There had been cases where husbands took all of their wives money and land and left them.
I look forward to seeing Leverrier torn by duty to the Order and his family. With Linali, he was vicious and ruthless, but Ellen is family. I can see him having a hard time reconciling his views that exorcists are to be used but having a difficult time with Ellen. But I ultimately think that Leverrier would chose the Order over her.
Would Link like to marry Ellen? He might do so because Lverrier ordered it, but I don't think Ellen would be satisfied with a marriage like that. And would Link like to be a step-father?
As Ellen gets older and matures, she will probably dislike the idea of being married to someone so thoroughly controlled by Leverrer.
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Well, I don't know if her father even left a will, he died pretty unexpected after all. But then again, as a soldier he probably is prepared to die anytime and would therefore see that his daughter would inherit something... So maybe Ellen does inherit as soon as she comes of age. As long as she doesn't have to give up on it because of her marriage...? Well, I don't think he father would have minded her marrying someone of lower social standing... But now with only 15 she probably doesn't have anything and must rely on her mother or her husband (only that Kanda doesn't own any property in England...)
Well, for the good of their religion he would probably not want sacrifice Ellen, but for the good of humanity he probably would. He seems to be quite bitter towards Hebraska, so maybe he wouldn't be fond of the idea to sacrifice any relatives even though his family did (and Ellen is not a direct relative of him)
I imagine that Link would agree to marry Ellen when Leverrier suggests it. I doubt he would care to love her or be loved by her at first. But Ellen is pretty irresistible so he might fall for her anyway. *lol* But I doubt it would be easy because Link would have reserves about being engaged to an already married woman and having Kanda as his rival must be difficult as well...
Yes, over time Ellen would certainly recognize that being engaged or married to Link only puts her under constant surveillance...
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At this point of their lives, I don't think income is a problem. The Order is taking care of all of their needs. I don't think Charlene would let her daughter be penniless, but maybe enforce certain rules if she is to support Ellen and Kanda. Like, they would have to live in her home?
Leverrier does seem to be very villainous, so it's hard to like him. But you're right, he might not want to sacrifice someone close to him... He wouldn't want to be like Hevlaska, and might try to ensure that the 14th never betrays the Order. He might be more wiling to believe that the 14th will join the Order.
I have come very attached to Link... I did not think I would, because he is Leverrier's lackey and minion... I wouldn't mind a story where Link and Ellen married (as long as there had been no previous Ellen-Kanda romance)...
I imagine that once the war is over, Ellen would like to wash her hands of the war and be rid of it forever. If she had married Link, she would never be free. Never free from the reminders of war and the loss of friends, and from constant mistrust and surveillance.
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I am certain that Charlene would not like Kanda and Ellen to live in a house of their own... At least not yet.
Well, I guess I do like Leverrier... but he is made to be disliked I think... He's just ruthless...
I love Link X3 But if I have to decide then I'll still go for Kanda and Allen / Ellen. I did start to write a story quite a while ago were Link and Ellen are engaged (thanks to Leverrier *lol*) but I don't know if they'll end up marrying because Kanda and Ellen had a on-off relationship before that... It's like you said; Link and Ellen is fine if there was no previous Kanda-Ellen relationship *lol*
Hm, yes, if Ellen married Link then she really would never be free... That's certainly not something she would wish... She does intent to finish the war and continue her life after all...
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2.
Charlene probably doesn't trust Kanda to treat Ellen very well. If they live under Charlene's roof, she will be able to monitor Kanda's behavior. That would drive Kanda crazy, and probably limit and constrict how Kanda and Ellen interact.
So, Link can't compete with Kanda. hee hee.
I would like to know more about that story. It seems like Link and Ellen's relationship is doomed is they are only together because of Leverrier's orders. But would Link mind? He doesn't seem like he is looking for love. That marriage would be a marriage of three, because they would never be rid of Leverrier...
Hm, it seems like Ellen and Kanda would be on-off, because of their temperaments.
I can imagine several reasons why Ellen and Kanda's relationship didn't work out or was difficult. Maybe Ellen wasn't really sure if she loved Kanda even to spend her life with him, because of their hot-and cold relationship. Maybe Kanda did want to get married, and she did... Kanda would be reluctant to say how he really feels, maybe thinking they had time, or saying anything wasn't necessary... But maybe the announcement of Link and Ellen's engagement might change that? Kanda would either sulk and decide he doesn't need Ellen, or be forced to take action.
Though, Ellen and Kanda's relationship would have been physical at some point, and Ellen woudl have to tell Link... how would Link react? He would still go-ahead with the marriage, but maybe not trust Ellen?
Ellen would only really marry Link if she was sure she loved him, or was forced into it. I can't imagine Ellen agreeing to give up her freedom after the war, after she had just earned it and was able to do what she wanted.
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I haven't continued writing for quite some time because I don't really know what to do with Ellen and Kanda's relationship after all...
Well, Link doesn't mind, he also did not mind Ellen having a relationship with Kanda before (even though he frowns upon the fact that they slept with each other without being married), but he wants her to be true to him once they marry. But of course, he only agreed because Leverrier suggested it... And Ellen accepted because she's in a difficult situation where she cannot oppose Leverrier (because of the 14th and all that...)
For Ellen it's just easier to marry Link (who will at least pretend to like her and make her feel comfortable) than to work out her dysfunctional relationship with Kanda.
Their relationship was purely physical, they can't really stand each other. Well, maybe Ellen does like him more than she lets on, but she think he's an ignorant idiot *lol* And he doesn't get it, he just wants her to be available when he desires her.
When Link appears he does feel himself cornered to some extend and wants to get her back (and convince her that it's idiocy to marry Leverrier's minion.)
Hm. I guess it's really difficult for Ellen and Link to get away from the Black Order / the Vatican if they ever chose to become engaged. Even if Ellen loves him (and Link her) there would always be that looming presence of Leverrier in the background (unless Link cut ties with him or it was all resolved and Ellen no longer needs to be controlled...)
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When it's summed up like that, Ellen and Kanda don't seem to be a great match in this setting.
It seems like a marriage like Ellen and Link just can't work out either. Link will never put Ellen before Leverrier and Ellen married him to save herself. It is alright that Link doesn't outright condemn Ellen because she isn't a virgin, but he is only with her because of an order.
But it really depends on Ellen's past. I would imagine Ellen, who had a sexual relationship with Kanda, but with a past like Allen's, is a bit more controversial in the 19th century. I don't think her past would be like Ellen in Ivory Tales. So, would this sexual Ellen take the easy path and marry Link?
I think Cross might have trained her to be very logical when it came to relationships. She knows from her childhood that people are promiscuous and should not suffer for it. Cross might have also taught her that she shouldn't fall in love, or she would be taken advantage of.
A relationship that is purely physical and sexual probably wouldn't work out between Kanda and Ellen. Ellen would probably not "love" him, but at least be fond and respect his fighting skills. Kanda on the other hand, is an ignorant idiot, who probably never considered Ellen would one day not be "available". He doesn't seem like the type to consider marriage and children (which Ellen might want, but not with Kanda. Maybe that's also a reason Ellen would marry Kanda? Ellen went her whole life without blood relatives, so a child could be important?)
It would be nice for Kanda to have an "awakening" and realize what he might lose, but I have a feeling he will go the wrong way about it. It might be wrong to marry Leverreri's minion and never be free from suspicion as the 14th, but the alternative is worse.
I wonder if the pressure of constantly being suspected because of the 14th and living a trapped life would eventually cause Ellen to leave Link? Would Link come after her?
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Well, no, her past would be like in the Manga, so she would have a different opinion of sexuality. And her relationship with Kanda is very sensual and she consented to marry Link without even knowing him and he doesn't appear to be all that interested in passion. Well, she is not entirely sure if she should really just marry Link.
I could well imagine that Cross would think Ellen an idiot for entering into a real relationship with anybody...
The question of having a family is indeed a topic, even though it doesn't really get addressed (not yet though, I didn't get that far after all *lol*) but only for Ellen. Kanda really has no clue about what she might want of him (other than his body).
Ellen does still think about the alternative, but she usually dismisses it because Kanda and her won't ever work out (at least in her opinion, but they can't really get away from each other...)
I guess that once they are seriously ready to marry or already married and Ellen would leave him, then Link would try to get her back. He might only back down when Ellen enters a real relationship with Kanda? I don't really know. But I guess Link would understand when Ellen leaves because of the pressure... (but he might not approve of it)
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Cross undoubtedly doesn't want Ellen to fall in love. He has seen how women are treated in relationship, and women are treated lightly, so if he has any ounce of affection for Ellen, he wouldn't want that for her.
And her relationship with Kanda doesn't actually seem "real". If it's just sexual, then it's about tension release.
Well, I guess it is only natural that Ellen consider having a family with Kanda: after all, she does know what is expected of her as a woman (to have children), and not many men would accept that she's not a virgin. For many girls, they had to marry the man they first slept with. because they were seen as "ruined", and only marriage could save them. But I doubt she would seriously consider marrying Kanda.
Either relationship with Kanda or Link is filled with difficulties... it doesn't seem like Ellen can be happy with either man....
But would Link try to get her back because he cared for her, or because it would look bad for him to have a run-away wife?
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Falling in love certainly wouldn't be very good for Ellen because of her situation, she can't really allow herself to be hindered in her own goal to destroy Akuma. Cross would probably expect that if she ever fell in love then with someone of the Black Order. And I can imagine him telling that falling in love will only cause her problems, but I doubt he's going to prohibit her loving someone...
Of course, it's not really a relationship she has with Kanda... For him its certainly tension release, but for her it only causes more tension (even though it's relieved for a short moment when she's with him...)
Hm. Well I think that Ellen (in this fic) doesn't really care about marriage. Of course, she knows what is expected of women, especially as she finds herself suddenly engaged to Link, but she is very able to get through life without that well enough. Cross raised her to be self-reliant and independent after all.
(But I imagine that she still might want a family one day.)
Hm, I'd say it's difficult with both men, but if they sorted things out she also could become happy with both at least to some extend, it depends on what Ellen wishes for herself...
Judging by the possessive streak we've witnessed Link to have when it comes to Allen, I guess that it might be in his own interest if he tries to get her back
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