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K-Whittington In reply to ??? [2009-12-31 17:11:31 +0000 UTC]

Maybe the 14th tried to kill the Earl 30 years ago, but was hiding for much longer. That is the only explanation I can come up with. That meant he must has spent at least 15 years hiding from the Earl before he died. By then, Allen as been born. But 14 chose Allen because he thought no one would miss him, so Allen must have developed his tough and sassy personality by the time they met... So, yes, I now think Cross and the 14th met face-to-face.
I had thought that maybe Allen might have been a pseudo-person like Kanda to get that time-line. But I think my above reasoning provides another explanation. Though, the idea that Allen was only created to become the host is also depressing and dark!

I think Mana would have convinced Allen to cut his hair short. Allen looks like a little delinquent with his ponytail, so I guess Mana was trying to `tame` Allen. (I love that Allen was a delinquent!)
I wonder when Allen cut his long hair. One chapter he has the long hair, then next chapter, it`s gone! I suppose the potion wore off, but that doesn`t really make sense that his long hair would just fall off...

I find the aspect of having my work judged by so many people were intimidating and daunting...

Some fanfics are really awful! People whose first langauge is english write so badly! I admit, one of the things that really annoy me is bad grammar. (It`s the reason I am so cautious when speaking or writing in German- I don`t want to make mistakes). Some of the plots are also so contrived! Things happen because authors feel the event should take place (because they feel it is ``romantic`` or ``dramatic``). They also have a bad tendency of badly portraying Allen as too innocent and naive, while Kanda is a pushy wife beater...

I have a few fanfics and authors that I pay attention to (such as Ivory Tales and Noah of Destiny). There is too much to read, so I only read Allen and Kanda fics.

I was actually considering something Kanda thinks in chapter 54 if Ivory Tales- where Kanda is mentally complaining over Ellen`s lack of grace and how she isn`t fussing over her appearance. It seems hypocritical to me- Kanda spends a lot of time complaining over Ellen`s feelings of obligation to act as a member of the upper class (which is where her grace and poise comes from) while lamenting the beliefs that enforce the behavior he hates!

I am studying Anthropology and Sociology, with a minor in German Studies.

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Silly-Blue In reply to K-Whittington [2009-12-31 18:20:40 +0000 UTC]

Well, the idea that Allen is created for some purpose is interesting; the black order (and maybe the 14th who has knowledge about Dark Matter and various other things and Cross as a scientist who can even modify Akuma too) would have the ability to create a person with Innocence. That would explain why Allen has no parents, but why let him out on the streets then? Wouldn't it be better to keep him under constant surveillance to assure that he does not die before he can awaken? Unless they wanted him to make expierences and gain knowledge useful to the 14th later on...

Hm, if he is an abandoned child, then he would not be missed (as he was not wanted). But I guess it also makes sense that Allen already formed his bratty personality - a rude child such as him, with no friends and no family is also a good host... But I wonder if it's a coincidence that Allen has Innocence...

Aw, I loved that pony-tail! It was very cute! And yes, hair falling off after the potion wears off doesn't make much sense, he must have cut it... Maybe he felt sorry for Linali who had short hair and, being the gentlemen that he is, was considerate enough to cut it off? *lol* It's a stupid explanation, he probably just thought it was inconvenient... But it's a pity...

I don't even think that much about how many people could access my fanfiction... But I'm nervous every time before submitting a new chapter *lol* But I have to get used to it, because I enjoy writing a great deal >w<

Well I think if fanfiction is bad then maybe the authors haven't really taken the time to think about what they are writing... Though I must confess that I also find it kind of frustrating when I see fanfiction written by a native speaker and feel that there are more mistakes than in my fanfiction >w< (but my grammar's not that good either, I still make lots of mistakes without realizing it...) I also shy away from writing German fanfiction because it's more embarrassing to make mistakes in German than in English! >w<

There are over-used plots... And there's also this tendency to put in as much drama in a story as possible... But it's true that many writers just write what they want to have happen because it's cute or dramatic and forget that there's first a story to be told to make it plausible... Well, I can't really say that I keep the characters in character all the time, because I cheat by making Allen a girl... >w<

Hehe, yes, that's true. Kanda can be hypocritical, I do not want his thinking to be flawless and good while Ellen's is shown as bad. Well, Kanda is not happy either way: he doesn't want her to be so class-consciouss as to consider him unfit to marry her, but he does not want her to give up on what it means to be a high-society lady either (which would be to be graceful, polite, concerned about home and family etc).

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K-Whittington In reply to Silly-Blue [2009-12-31 23:41:52 +0000 UTC]

I like the idea of Allen also having been created. Cross might have had access to the people sleeping in the pools, and could have been around when Allen woke up. But why let the kid out onto the streets- maybe Allen escaped?
But being an abandoned child, he is also unwanted. No one would notice if he disappeared. I doubt anyone really noticed when Allen left the circus with Mana -they might have been angry to lose a worker though.

Would the 14th has chosen someone with Innocence on purpose? I keep on thinking that it should not work- Noah genes reject Innocence. But maybe the 14th taking over Allen isn`t really the same thing as having Noah genes. It really seems like it will be Allen, but with different memories that inform him how to act and behave.

I really wish he had kept his hair long! Hoshino once wrote a note that she was considering having Allen grow out his hair... but I guess not. I remember a small comic Hoshino wrote, where Linali is looking enviously as Kanda`s hair, because he is the only once with long hair.

It seems like fanfic writers at times don`t read good literature or understand the idea of plot. Things have to happen for a reason!

There really is the problem with how 19th century men thought about marriage. The husband was supposed to be all knowing and have power over the household. He was seen as the teacher who instructed his wife. And I worry that Kanda`s and Ellen`s marriage will come to that. Even if it is unreasonable considering the time, I really do want them to have an egalitarian marriage. Kanda acts like he has all the answers, or that he is the one who is reasonable- when after all, he decided he wanted to marry a girl after only knowing her for a mother and thought he was being `grown up`for it! Ellen`s hesitation are reasonable, but only because she grew up in the Victorian era. She is making significant changes to herself, while Kanda hasn`t seemed to make many. Kanda originally said he doesn`t like the idea of women fighting, but has he changed his opinion yet? It seems that Ellen is the only one maturing, but Kanda has some growing up to do as well.

Kanda has to decide-does he want Ellen to discover who she really is, without having to worry about class and `what is proper`or does he want that young anxious girl who thought she was doing something bad by being with him? It seems to me that Kanda wants it both ways: a young, well behaved girl who is full of grace, who doesn`t believe in divisions of the classes.

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Silly-Blue In reply to K-Whittington [2010-01-01 11:38:24 +0000 UTC]

Well, that's what I was thinking as well; shouldn't Innocence reject both Dark Matter and Noah genes. But technically speaking (thanks to the newer chapters) we now know that every human is a descendant from those first Noahs as creators of the new race (which is nothing new in itself) and that every human has these Noah genes by default and every human could become a Noah. I think there is still a process of being chosen involved (like with Innocence...) But it seems stupid for a Noah to chose a human with Innocence as its host, when it was established that Innocence can kill Noahs and Noahs can destroy Innocence... But the Earl did say that the 14th allied himself with Innocence, maybe he did it on purpose after all. He failed to kill the Earl as a Noah, maybe he will not fail if he has Innocence. He doesn't seem to mind that his host body will be destroyed eventually, as long as it lasts for the fight, then that's fine - but if he wants to be the Earl of Millennium wouldn't it be more prudent to chose a body that will not die earlier because of parastic Innocence...?

I really wonder how Hoshino will resolve the problem of the 14th inside of Allen, she can't make "Allen" as a person or personality disappear, but how should it work that the 14th and Allen co-exist if the 14th seems to be that hostile towards his host...?

Hihi, yes, reading good books helps writing better fanfiction! And it also inspires - at least me. >w<

Hm, as far as I know a lot of marriage laws changed within the 19th century, like woman who were no longer propriety or that what they owned wouldn't immediately belong to the husband or that the husband had the sole right to children - but even though law existed nothing much was done to actually change it. I doubt that much changed in noble families... Kanda does have certain ideas about how a family should function; he does think that Ellen is weaker by default (but was surprised to realize that she is a very strong exorcist) and that when a girl marries the man will help her make the right decision. Kanda's problem is that he doesn't really have a clue who exactly his wife is; he only knew her for a little time, then they were seperated for quite long and he didn't really see how much she grew.

Ah, I'm really happy that you catch the little things I include! >w< I wanted to make a bit fun of Kanda who considers him to be very grown up about the whole business. And it's true, even though I hadn't really tought about it this way; Kanda didn't really mature yet. He turned from angry and judgmental to gentle (but still judgmental) with Ellen after he fell in love with her. But he still sticks to his views about what's right and decides beforehand what is the only right reaction. I think Kanda also panicked a little bit; he felt that Ellen did not want to have that kind of relationship with him that he wanted to have with her - then he got a chance to have her because of her pregnancy. He certianly tried to take that chance and convince her to marry him because "there's no other option" for her as a pregnant girl. Of course there would have been other options, but he pushed her into it. But Ellen wasn't really that reasonable in the situation as well. It might be well true that the relationship could end in a marriage where Kanda pushes and Ellen yields, but I doubt it. In the end I want her to make significant decisions as well and Kanda adapting a bit. My ideal relationship for them would also be one where they are equals and I think that they can achieve it because they are exorcists as well - Kanda does realize that she is his equal there (even though she is a girl). Kanda doesn't like her to be all too meek... I think he will "allow" her to be his equal. But it is the Victorian time after all, he's still the "boss"... (unless he is intimidated by the fact that all the money and luxury they have is due to his wife's status...)

I think Kanda would not even mind Ellen being class-consicious, but as this kind of thinking depicts him as inferior and unworthy, he rejects it as not fit for her circumstances and as "unromantic"...

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K-Whittington In reply to Silly-Blue [2010-01-01 23:54:42 +0000 UTC]

Maybe Noah genes are Innocence are not as incompatible as I had first thought. Really, it is Innocence and Dark Matter that repel one another. there is nothing inherent that says Innocence and Noah genes should reject one another... I suppose that Allen technically does not have the awakened Noah genes, while still having Innocence. Allen's body doesn't seem like it will hold up very long with the 14th trying to take him over. And his Innocence is slowly killing him as well... Allen really just wasn't going to live long, that could have been another reason as to why the 14th thought him as someone no one would miss.

Maybe DGM is nearing the climax, so the problem if the 14th taking over and killing the main character isn't too much of a problem? Or maybe they will find a way to stop the 14th? the Earl might even be able to help.

The 19th century really did have a lot of changes to the laws regarding marriage and divorce. If only we knew what year DGM was set in... I really hope Kanda's prejudices and illogical thought process is challenged by Ellen and he is forced to change, like Ellen was forced to change. Ellen is on her way to becoming a better exorcist and stronger than Kanda, and yet he does not acknowledge that. By the way, Ellen has reached over 100% sync with Crow Clown, will that be mentioned in Ivory Tales? I don't think Ellen will accept Kanda as her 'teacher' (except when fighting) and how he has to be the one to make sure she makes the 'right' decision. I can't imagine, after all the changes she'd gone through, that she will be satisfied with such an old-fashioned arrangement in her marriage. Kanda really need to find out exactly who his wife is, and hopefully he will be happy with that.

But is it obvious that Kanda has a flawed way of thinking, and will Ellen confront him on it? In some ways, Kanda is more hypocritical because at least Ellen agonizes over her decisions and isn't happy when she says that Kanda is from a lower class. Kanda is certain he is right and doesn't have his own views challenged. To me, that is much worse.
I wonder, will fatherhood make Kanda mature 9especially having a daughter)? or is there something else needed to make him grow-up? Maybe having his wife turn into a Noah will help (I cant imagine Noah-Ellen not confronting Kanda about his faults, when Noah-Ellen criticizes Ellen). In a way, Kanda really trapped her into their marriage. He let her know/think that there really was no way out of the situation. Ellen didn't really want to marry Kanda, but she had no time to talk to her mother (who had a few ideas to 'fix' the situation). Ellen really could only go along with what other people told her to do. Her options were obey Kanda or obey her mother...
Usually, the man is more wealthy that the wife. It is seen as a more 'ideal situation'. The wife isn't supposed to have any real power and should 'look up' to her husabd. Women would use their dowry to enter a higher class through marriage, so the wife would know she held a position in society because of her husband. A woman who was of a higher station could look down on her husband, and not see him as her 'boss', and That Was Not How Things We Supposed To Be. It really was an awful situation for women.

But there is the problem where Ellen was taught to behave in a way that he finds he prefers (as a young noble lady) but he dislikes the ideas and beliefs that come with it. Ellen is just discovering who she really is, and Kanda still doesn't know Ellen very well and yet he is discouraging her from finding out who she could be.
I hope everything works out between them.

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Silly-Blue In reply to K-Whittington [2010-01-02 15:35:06 +0000 UTC]

In chapter 114 it's said that Akuma/Noah are the counterpart of Innocence, one can destroy the other. It doesn't exactly say that they cannot coexist and absolutely have to destroy eachother, but Innocence is weak against the Noah because it can be destroyed by them (and vice versa). Dark Matter can kill an exorcist (unless it's a parasite type). Allen might be an overall special case; the Innocence is not only his arm, but also fills a hole in his heart and is therefore life-sustaining (even though it hasn't been mentioned again... so maybe it's not as gloomy as I think it is) as well as it sucks his life away from him... And he received a curse by an Akuma, maybe he even has some Dark Matter particles inside of him. So it might be that he is able to accommodate a Noah inside of him as well. However, Crown Clown reacted violently after he stabbed himself to defeat the Level Four... Well it seems that nowadays it's pretty easy for the 14th to take over for a short time but it appears to be quite painful for Allen to push him back again.

I hope DGM isn't going to end soon! I would be sad! But maybe it really is... I wonder if the Earl has any interest in stoping the process - not if he has any need for the 14th. He can't really hope to make a deal with Allen unless Allen is emotionally more unstable than I thought... But he should still have his resolution to "destroy and protect", helping the Earl who creates Akuma is certainly counterproductive, no matter what genius plan the Earl has for the Akuma...

Well it was said DGM was set towards the end of the 19th century, according to my own feeling the end of a century should be around the 80s/90s. I think it doesn't really matter that much for Hoshino but for me it'd be quite interesting to know... But as it's a fictional 19th century anway I guess we have enough liberty to decide for ourselves.

I was thinking about addressing the topic of Ellen being a Critical but I'm not sure yet if I should promote her to the rank of General. Well, it might give her more liberty as an exorcist but she has to be on the move almost constantly... I don't know if it would be wise of the Vatican to give a suspect (a Noah who might betray them) that much independence... But it would probably push Kanda into a situation where Ellen is more powerful than he is, even within the domain where they can be equals despite their social standing and gender - and as an exorcist Ellen does accept the fact that she is not subordinated to Kanda even though he's her senior / a man / her husband. And if Ellen realizes the good points of not having to hold herself back then she might not be too keen on renouncing her personal freedom and equality she enjoyed with Kanda for the position of a powerless wife... And I think she probably does have some pride as well and would not want to be a servant.

I didn't really put much focus on Kanda's development as a character and also didn't put that much thought into it... Kanda's flawed way of thinking mostly happens inside of his head so that Ellen cannot really comment on it, but she should react to things coming from Kanda that she cannot agree with. He would probably accept criticism to some extend, because he is too fond of Ellen to not change his views (I believe). But I like the idea of challenging Kanda's way of thinking as well. He doesn't really get what he wants anyway: Ellen will go out to fight no matter what he might think about it.

Maybe having to confront Ellen's mother will get him thinking. Ellen changing into a Noah will probably as well and fatherhood certainly too... Well, just saying that he'll follow Ellen even if she's a Noah might also sound rather immature and because he doesn't give his reasons it also seems to disregard the anguish that becoming a Noah means for Ellen (even though he meant to cheer her up and also managed to do so...). For Kanda everything will be fine; marrying someone against society's wishes can't be all too damaging, having a child cannot be all too difficult, confronting some sort of conspiracy within Ellen's family can't be that bad, becoming a Noah even though one is an exorcist is no disaster... For Ellen all of these things meant a lot of pain... While I think Kanda underestimates what it means to marry a noble girl and what it means to take responsibility for an infant, he does have his own background that makes him deal with certain things in a different way...

I guess Kanda has to confront his own issues sometimes soon in order to grow up and allow for Ellen to develop into a woman she is confortable being. He really doesn't know her that well but she doesn't know what kind of husband she married either. If they can work things out then I guess they will do well as a married couple, I just wonder if they can disregard social conventions in their marriage when Ellen's position forces her to be quite active in the public sphere (though I don't really know if she still is a member of nobility after marrying someone without a title... I don't think that the title of Earl Bermont could be transferred to Kanda, well, maybe I'll just disregard that *lol*)

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K-Whittington In reply to Silly-Blue [2010-01-02 21:00:38 +0000 UTC]

I have no idea now how Innocence and Noah genes can survive together. It seems to be slowly killing Allen, so maybe the two really can't reside in the same host. Maybe the 1th just wants that brief window of time and opportunity with an exorcist-body infused with Noah genes to kill the Earl?

I think Hoshino said that when DGM ends, she might write a story about a soba shop (but Kanda will not appear in it). I would rather a manga have a reasonable ending than have it drag on forever, like some shonen manga that have no end in sight. It seems that most manga-ka just drag their stories out to get money. I don't think Hoshino has done this, but a series should not run for too long.

Right, the specific time for DGM doesn't really make much of s difference to the story. But I woudl still really like to know.

I think it is just precedent to give an exorcist with over 100% sych general status. I think the Order could probably deny her the promotion or say that she is too inexperienced to have students of her own yet. But I woudl look to read Kanda's reaction to having a wife with a higher sync than him!
I would be nice if their positions as exorcists did effect their marriage in such a positive way that they thought of themselves as equals. But Kanda has a lot to learn. But if Ellen isn't the one to challenge Kanda's perceptions, Kanda won't rethink them. Ellen's own actions will have to challenge Kanda.

True, Kanda has a different way of thinking, but he does not tell Ellen what he really thinks. Ellen hasn't had the opportunity to confront Kanda's failings.

Kanda's unfailing acceptance does seem blind at times and doesn't really help her in the long run. He's just making baseless promises that he has no idea if he can keep. He also underestimates what effect fatherhood and Ellen turning in a Noah will have on him. Of course, during the 19th century, fatherhood wasn't that hard for men of the upper classes. When Kanda just reassures Ellen, it also undermines and de-legitimatizes the worries Ellen has.

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Silly-Blue In reply to K-Whittington [2010-01-02 23:33:50 +0000 UTC]

If the 14th plans to work with that ticking bomb, then it appears kind of thoughtless to possess a young boy that first has to grow into a fighter that is even remotedly capable of defeating the Earl... It's really hard to tell what the 14th planned... Maybe we are all misguided and Innocence and Noah do not have to stand on opposite sides, but considering that the Millennium Earl fought against the Innocence already 7000 years ago, it seems kind of hard to imagine. And if the Millennium Earl is the enemy of the Innocence then why does the 14th want to be Millennium Earl? Does he plan on changing bodies once he got what he wants? At least the Innocence didn't fully reject Allen yet, it did "remind" him of the danger though when Allen stabbed himself. Maybe his Innocence is just twisted - I really don't see the point of Crown Clown, it doesn't even manage to kill Noah, so maybe it's a special piece that has some kind of intention...? (The heart was referred to as having a will and the ability to act after all and all Innocence cubes seem to have some sort of "personality")

Yes, I feel that both Bleach and Naruto go on and on and on.... without anything that special happening... It would be bad if Hoshino did that as well... But I think it could easily go on for another year, considering how that would only be 12 chapters and how she doesn't really do that much in one chapter... But the ending seems to be not so far away... *lol* yes I've read something about that soba shop manga! But without Kanda it won't be half as funny!

Hihi, yes me too! But I have a feeling that Allen's synch rate isn't usually above 100, just when his emotions and determination is really strong and then he's easily able to go above 100%. But there are worlds between what he is able to do and what the other Generals do. Well, I'll think about it for some more, because Ellen should become a General eventually but I have to find the right moment for it...

True, it wasn't really that difficult to be a father back then, but also mothers often didn't really care for them (well, must depend on the time and the class. I read recently that many people during the later part of the 19C advised mothers to nurse their children on their own). Well, Ellen will just have to talk back to Kanda about it and insist on the weight the current changes have.
I think you're right when you say that Ellen's actions have to challenge Kanda's way of thinking, this would probably be better than having other people comment on the situation.

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K-Whittington In reply to Silly-Blue [2010-01-03 19:19:43 +0000 UTC]

There is just no way to really figure out what the 14th is planning yet. How could the 14th benefit from becoming the next Millennium Earl? There must be something about the Earl's position that the 14th wants/needs... But if the Innocence and Noah genes are killings Allen, how can the 14th become the Earl for any amount of time?

I don't bother to read Bleach or Naruto because they are generic and they do go on forever... it just gets boring. But so far, Hoshino hasn't seemed to do that. Most arcs have a purpose to the over all story.

Though DGM is a dark story, there are funny parts. Apparently, Hoshino had other funny stories she wanted to include in DGM, but her editor vetoed them. So maybe the soba-shop manga will be more comedic. Well, a manga about a soba shop can't really be serious...

Maybe a sync ratio can go up and down. So, while in the Arc, Allen was able to reach over 100%, but that could have been a one-time event.
I would like to see Ellen become a General, especially just to see Kanda's reaction. He was proud that she was able to punch him in the face, but how would be react to something like status? But her current position in the Order doesn't seem to allow it.

I remember reading about child rearing techniques for the 19th century. At some point, it was advocated that women should not play with their children. But would Ellen follow these techniques? I can imagine that the Order would be a very multicultural place, so she would get a lot of advice on how to raise her children, and so some techniques would be better than others.

Ellen certainly wont want other people commenting on her relationship with her husband. I think she would rather challenge Kanda's thought process in private. Of course, Ellen will have had to decide on what she wants from their marriage before she confronts Kanda.

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