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Silly-Blue — Ellen and little Emily
Published: 2009-05-02 13:19:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 2687; Favourites: 48; Downloads: 9
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This is some sort of response to this: [link] :3(Thanks goes out to ~K-Whittington for suggesting that I should draw an Emily-Ellen picture for a change *lol*)
Emily holds on to her mother's skirt! I think it's funny to compare the two pictures >w<
The look Emily's wearing seems to say: don't go away mommy! Slightly different than the shy expression chibi Kanda wears on the previous picture *lol*
Just a random observation: Ellen is about 20 in this picture and she does look different than she did on the one with chibi Kanda ;3
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Comments: 304
Ah, what a great way of saying the influence Mana still holds on Allen.
When Cross said to drop the Mass of Mana, and Allen really is starting to do it. He was acting more curt and direct with people. He even teased Link.
I would like to see Allen react harshly against Mana's influence for what Mana did. Maybe Mana really did come to love Allen, but it was under twisted circumstances.
I think Cross would have treated her worse as a girl- girls were seen as more trouble to parents, even today. They were a liability and expensive as well. Anyone could take advantage to them, and they couldn't earn the same amount of money in factories that a boy could. And there had to be a dowry, or she could get pregnant before marriage...
Cross would have treated her harshly to make sure that she would never be taken advantage of (and put him at an inconvenience...)
In a religious institution, I can see women being treated slightly different from men. They would have been closely watched and monitored. they were seen as easily tempted and weaker than men. Worse; they could "infect" other men with their weakness. It was not a very nice way to treat women.
To Leverrier, a tool from god is still a tool; female or not.
I agree that Link and Kanda would both at least respect Ellen for her competence in the battlefield. I doubt Kanda would be satisfied with a traditional girl who never argues with him and that he had to treat as if her were delicate.
I think Ellen would eventually grow out of her impulsive streak of acting on her emotions (though emotions are important to parasitic exorcists)
Kanda is just an angry person, maybe? It could be that he doesn't liek cursed people, and he still hasn't touched Allen (except in a fight and when Allen grabbed onto Kanda when they fell through the door in the Arc...)
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Maybe Allen should just get really angry at Mana for once; up until now he was just devastated and melancholic about Mana, even though maybe he should have been angry or disappointed. But it wasn't Mana's fault - he was only the 14th's brother and he was mad; that's what Cross says. I do think that Mana should be held responsible for what he did to Allen even if it's just one little bit of anger from Allen...
That's true, Cross certainly would have tried to "raise" her in a way that would be most beneficial in the future.
Well, maybe Leverrier thought it safe to give Link the "mission" of engagement to Ellen - he would have been determined enough to not be tempted by her. Not that this was in Ellen's intention... Well, having to be careful around his girlfriend (or whatever) would certainly be too tedious for Kanda...
Hm... That's true... Kanda rarely touches Allen... But I guess he generally doesn't touch people much...
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I would like to see an angry Allen- we already know he is not nearly as polite as he pretends to be, so I think justified anger at Mana (someone he adored and was betrayed by) would be appropriate. I really don't like characters that are so forgiving.
I'm curious as to what Mana knew. Did he know that the 14th was going to come back and that his host was Allen?
I don't think Cross would have bothered with raising her to be a "lady". That would just get in the way.
I think Leverrier would just assume Ellen would try and "tempt" men. So he had to chose someone he could trust no to fall for Ellen's "tricks".
Kanda is a pretty volatile person. I can't imagine that he would even hold Ellen's hand. they don't seem to have that kind of relationship.
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I actually like that Allen is forgiving, but first being angry (which is justified), then thinking about it and then choosing to forgive - that would be better than just ignore the problem altogether what he seems to do most of the time.
Maybe Mana felt the connection to his lost brother. The more he knew the more guilty he makes himself. I always found Mana to be fishy, but I'll start disliking him depending on what he did / knew.
There'd be no point in raising Ellen to be a lady, especially as I also think that Cross' opinion of women isn't thaaaaaaat good - seeing how he seems to treat them as mere objects for his own amusement...
Leverrier would probably assume the worst, yes. She's a danger anyway, all of her bad impulses (he might think her to have) have to be restrained. Link probably is the best person for that; he is knowledgable, he follows the rules (and will not be tempted) and is on top of that physically strong (and able to keep Ellen in check for a while should she turn against them).
I agree; I doubt Kanda touches her more than absolutely necessary, despite having some sort of relationship with her... The more I think about it, the worse these two options for Ellen appear to me... =w=
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Allen does ignore a lot of his problems, but it seems to be working for him. There really is nothing Allen can do about his past, Mana has already betrayed him and he can't think of anything to do that will stop the 14th. All he really can do is follow Cross' advice and stop acting like Mana.
I do want more information about Mana, but now I would feel cheated if he really did love Allen for himself, and not because of the 14th. I do not want every character to be redeemable.
Cross is a terrible person who treats women badly. But i think there must be some women he respected. Like Anita perhaps? But mostly, he must think girls are annoying and weak and really, Ellen as an exorcist has no place being weak.
Sorry about turning you against Link and Kanda.... but maybe no choice is the best choice for Ellen? A professor in class once said, if you only have two options, probably neither of them are good. Maybe Kanda/Link will have to lose Ellen to finally appreciate what they could have had?
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It's quite a bleak situation for Allen and I am impressed that he can cope so well - but he really has no other choice. If he decided for himself to just block out all things that he isn't able to get answers to or change, then "going on" is still the only option left to him. Maybe that really isn't the best way of dealing with things, but he doesn't have anybody who could help him and doing it that way (alone, and pushing things aside) seems how he has lived before. And Allen is only 15 (or maybe 16 by now?) he really can't be expected to make right decisions in situations like the ones he finds himself in without at least someone to hold on to for support - be it either Mana (long dead and his memory now stained by recent revelations) or Cross (currently missing - again). He would need to turn to other people, but his personality and way of living prevent him to seek out his friends' help...
That's true. I do not want Mana to remain a saint like figure for Allen; he also had his faults and wronged Allen. I do not want him to be redeemed so easily. I was not happy when Cross took the blame off Mana, because he is just the 14th's brother - he was pushed into a "poor, innocent by-stander" role. I do not think that Mana did nothing at all. I just don't believe it.
I think Cross respected Anita also because she seems to be quite a strong woman and I'm sure he'd get really annoyed at Ellen if she was anything other than a though person who manages to fend for herself. She is after all not a girl - she is an exorcist.
No, no. Actually I think that's rather good. I wanted to write a story where Ellen finds herself in a position where she has the power to make decisions, even if she is controlled. And I think the power to make decisions or to decide to not chose a husband (like a "good girl" is supposed to) is quite important as well. I am way too focused on trying to make Ellen achieve happiness through a man. That's also not very emancipatory I think *lol* Maybe her happiness does not lie in a husband, or in marriage, or in a stable place within society. If she longs for home then she might have to build it herself in a different way that might be proposed to her by Link for example.
Maybe Ellen's decision to not chose any of them (because somehow I agree that if you are limited to only two choices, there are likely flaws in both of them) will surprise both Kanda and Link. And a few years of distance might give all of them time to think about their reasons why a relationship might be desired or not and why Ellen would be worth trying to establish a relationship on different terms.
I just have to rewrite some stuff I think and I've put off continuing the story for too long because I was unsure about what to do with it - sometimes I don't plan ahead far enough... X3 (But if an idea pops up I just have to start writing it down, even if it turns out to be rubbish *lol*)
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I`m not sure if ignoring the problem is really coping... It might be. I don`t think Allen can really find anyone and confide in them, so he really is alone. And Cross, someone who could have helped him, is gone. I also don`t think Allen is really comfortable with telling others about himself. He only said a little bit to the Bookmen in the Rewinding Town.
In the Arc, Tyki said Allen was 15, and Allen didn`t correct him... it seems that the DGM time line is very weird. I would have thought more time had passed.
I think it might have been worse, that Mana was not the one who was the 14th but the brother. It meant that while Mana did not plan it, he was complacent and helped in his own way. I too prefer that Mana remain a controversial figure. Allen will probably forgive Mana, but I would be pleasantly surprised if he did not. I believe it was because of Mana`s `kindness` to Allen as a child that enabled Allen to be kind to others, so it would be fitting that Mana caused a new change in Allen (he has already stopped being very polite).
I`m really glad to see you write that. Ellen does not necessarily need a man to become happier with herself. She is a strong woman, even more so that most 19th century women because she can fight back against the oppression.
I believe that Kanda and Link would be surprised if she rejected both. Link`s proposal of marriage and Kanda`s desire to have their relationship remain the same. Kanda and Link would really need to mature if any kind of mature relationship were to develop and that would take years. And I don`t support the idea that Ellen should wait for them.
good luck with your writing.
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No, actually ignoring the problem shouldn't be called coping, but I think it's a way (maybe not the healtiest) to deal with this kind of problem. He really has nobody to help him with it, maybe he's scared to face the truth? He seemed determined to "make his own path" but he still ignores the problem with Mana. He's probably forcing himself to be optimistic again...
More time should have passed, especially since in the rewinding town arc it was October; so either Allen is already 16 or he was 14 when the story started.
But I wouldn't want Allen to turn into a rude brat again when he starts detaching himself from Mana. X3
Hehe, yes, Ellen shouldn't be restricted, at least not in her choice for her own future; she's been bound by Mana for too long, she shouldn't just run into the next similar situation with either a husband or a selfish lover.
Thanks! ^w^
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I doubt many of the exorcists have healthy coping habits. Ignoring the problem seems to be working for Allen so far... Allen has so many issues... will be abandon what Mana taught him, like Cross said he should? Is Cross even telling the truth when he says Allen made his own path, or is he saying what Allen needs to hear?
Ah~ The time line should be more drawn out~ Especially considering how long travel took in the 19th century.
I sort of like the idea of an occasionally rude Allen. But his polite side is interesting as well, especially considering it is an act.
Ellen really needs better options... women did not have many, but if she chose to exist outside "proper" society, she should be able to be happy. She really needs to avoid unequal relationships...
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Well, they are part of a religious institution, there would be priests to care for them - but I doubt that this is enough for them, because a lot of the exorcist didn't become soldiers out of a sense of devotion to God... So that probably won't give them solace... Same with Allen, he can only ponder his problems on his own, so he'll have to make up his mind about what to do.
I think that Cross was partly saying the things which were needed to keep Allen going and to shake him out of his misery even though it was harsh (the part about Allen killing someone he loves). I found it tragic that Allen seemed to care more about the issue who Mana really loved than the fact that the 14th will eat him away. Allen is too focused on Mana, he really should let go a bit, but he's probably too afraid to really pave his own path after living the way Mana told him to for too long.
Yes! Travelling times should be really long! Not every place was accessible via train or coach after all... But now they have the Ark, so focussing on travelling won't be necessary anymore... Which is a pity somehow. But I can also understand why Hoshino just fast forwards the times that are spent travelling, it probably was uneventful... Apart from the occasional missed train...
I guess a peson like Ellen should be fine outside of the "proper" society, she knows how to get by after all and probably won't stay in one place for too long. Maybe Ellen wasn't used to equal relationships though; there was father-daughter, master-apprentice (almost wrote slave, but it probably would be appropriate as well *lol*) and the future husband-wife. I don't know how it was with Kanda - maybe it was equal, both of them degraded the other into an object that they can "consume" whenever they wanted. Kanda is more demanding than Ellen though... So even though they are equals as exorcist they probably aren't as lovers...
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I find it interesting what Hoshino mentions in regards to religion. Leverrier seems to be very religious, but exorcists vary. Tiedoll seems to believe, but Kanda is very caustic. Allen has admitted to not caring about god, but that seems to hint he does believe. It seems to have an old testament feel to it...
I think Allen's question about whether Mana really loved him surprised Cross. Allen didn't show anger over being used, he just wanted to know he was loved. I really am intersted in seeing if Allen every lets down his mask.
In the latest chapter, Allen seems to be more willing to pick fights, but he also smiles a lot. It seems to be an interesting mix.
The arc is only useful if Allen has been there. It can't go where Allen hasn't, so that it a limitation. But Allen has traveled extensively (was that part of Cross' plan when he was traveling?)
I don't think Hoshino could use the missed-train plot device more than once.
Hm, the relationship Kanda and Ellen have really only is about sexual gratification. I doubt they really care much about how the other feels or worry much about it. Though, it is true that Ellen had only been involved in unequal relationships. She was bound by conventions and sheer-power to obey the men in her life. I think her relationship with Kanda was almost approaching equality, in that they both were using each other and weren't lying to each other about it.
In the US, there is so much literature about how women don't find purely sexual relationships and one night stands satisfying (these research projects are funded by abstinence-only and conservative groups, so they are terribly biased and there is tones of research that contradicts them). The conservatives say what women really want is love and children. That women can't be satisfied with purely sexual relationships.
So, I tend to pay attention to things like this. Ellen is completely capable of sleeping with someone and not expecting or even wanting marriage.
It is hard to imagine that love could come out of their relationship, and I don't think Ellen woudl be satisfied with Kanda if he did not respect her. She's been in too many unequal relationships to be satisfied with it for the rest of her life. But I don't know if she has s better chance with Link...
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For me DGM never seemed like a manga that put much stress on religion despite the BO being a religious institution funded by the Vatican. Very early on there was that question raised whether the exorcist's god is a false god and the cause the Earl serves is right. I recently thought about the slightly twisted christian imagery in DGM, but it's too confusing if you try to make sense of it *lol* Well, the Innocence is very vengeful, like God in the old testament was; if you make a mistake, then you will be punished. If there is a goal to reach, then people (foes and the innocent) will get slaughtered. That's the way it is and that's the way it seems to be in DGM as well.
Hihi, that's true. I liked how Allen masked his irritation behind smiles. I guess that when he was angry before (and he was willing to overlook much) he didn't really smile and he didn't lash out like he did when Tokusa pushed his buttons. I like Allen smiling, cheeky and angry. He seems to have a broader range of emotions to display than Kanda for example does.
I guess the Ark is also pointless to have if Allen's not there to controll it. Allen travelled far with Mana and with Cross, so maybe part of it was to run away from the Earl and also to imprint places in Allen's mind? It could be.
Hmpf. Well I also think that women do not necessarily wish to become mothers or to settle down. If it's fine for men, then why shouldn't it be fine for women as well? *lol* It's not as if humanity will die out if people chose to just enjoy sex without producing children. Well, that's for today. But I guess it was different 100 years back... But Ellen is also a different matter...
As it is now Ellen probably can't put up with either of the two for too long...
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I found it interesting that in DGM, the great flood was taken to be a real event. Even the scientist, who are supposed to be the most skeptical over religion, take it to be true. But then again, religion is one of the major premises of the manga.
Hm, yes, their god is very old testament.
Being able to smile at people is a useful skill, and a lot of typical shonen manga characters don't have that ability. They are very one-dimensional and straight-forward. I'm glad Allen had some duplicity in him.
Kanda seems to have 3 facial expressions: disinterested, angry and confident.
Cross also had a reason to keep moving: he was trying to avoid the Earl and the Order.
Sex was about procreation and it was considered an illness to enjoy sex if one were female. Doctors at the time told women they would atrophy if they had fewer than 3 children. A lot of things influenced women to bear children. I remember being told that if a husband was treating his wife badly, then she should have more children!
So many people act like the human race will be wiped out if people chose to enjoy a healthy sex life over reproducing. I read american news sites, and some people are very frightening...
It may be more logical for Ellen to reject both men. It would be funny, that when Ellen breaks if off with Kanda, he automatically thinks its to be with Link, when in fact, she rejects both.
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That's true. A lot of things are just fact in DGM (like the Flood being real, but not the story about Noah, the Ark and one pair of all animals out there, and also ghosts seem to be real in the DGM universe) but apart from the "Three Days of Darkness" evertyhing else about how things proceeded are left in the dark; we are not told if there was a real Genesis (and apparently both the Vatican and the Earl try their hands at reproducing Genesis) and neither do we know if there was once a messiah, especially as we don't know if the God the exorcists believe in is "good" and also because there's this messed up allegory of the Earl and his apostles (just that there's one too many) as well as Innocence and it's/ God's appostles. I don't even know if Hoshino is trying to make a parallel or if she just takes elements at random *lol*
Yes, Kanda clearly has to work on his facial expressions a bit... But I guess he's meant to be some sort of contrast to Allen (only that he and Allen apparently are quite similar. And Allen can get pretty nasty as well)
I wonder if such controversies about sexuality excist in Switzerland as well, probably yes, but it's never in the news... But maybe that's the better course of action than to get all people heated up about such a topic.
Maybe Kanda's pride will be less hurt when he sees that Ellen rejects both. But he might still be very surprised. Link would probably understand the context of her refusal better than Kanda but that doesn't mean that he'll approve of it...
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I'm really curious about the Earl and his back story. What if he really is working for the 'real' god and the exorcists really are with a "false god"?
Allen does have more facial expression than Kanda, but I think Kanda is more honest in what he feels. With Allen, there is always the possibility that he is lying or just being polite.
I don't believe Europe or Canada are as bad as the americans... they can be very frightening.
Hm, it is true that Kanda just might revel in the fact that Link wasn't chosen "over him". So, Link can't rub it in his face that he got Ellen. Which is a sad way to view a woman... Libk is a lot smarter, so he would understand Ellen's reasoning.
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Well, if that were the case (that the Earl is working for the real God) then it would just mean that it's another God-issues purging of Earth. I remember Rhode saying that there's no difference between god and the devil, so maybe something like the God (and the religion) the Vatican wants to protect does not exist in the form they think he does. In the end it doesn't really matter who's the mastermind behind it all (be it God, the Devil, Innocence, the Earl, Aliens) the exorcists need to save humanity. The Vatican will probably keep everything secret anyway and people can go on believing in their religion and their God...
That's true. Kanda is more honest than Allen, but I think Allen can be honest as well - I've just re-read Volume two and I think he was very honest with Kanda during the Matel arc (which might have just been a plot device anyway, because we need to be shown Allen's ideals, feelings and thoughts...)
True... *sigh*
Well, that would kind of turn Ellen into nothing more than an object that two guys are fighing over... But I guess it's better for Kanda's ego that he did not lose to Link. Ellen decided not to take either of the two... So he might be okay with that, even though he might not understand the reasoning behind it.
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hm... the Vatican seems really shady to me. I don't like the idea that any group can get away with terrible human experiments and murder. I mean, Leverrier thinks Cross was killed by the Order, and wasn't that surprised about it...
I'm not sure if Hoshino will ever give a clear answer over the god/Devil issue. In the Old Testament, God is pretty evil... he commits genocides and justifies rape and slavery... the new testament is a better on human rights...
Hm, I think Allen was honest when he spoke to Kanda in Matel, but I think it was because he was caught off guard. His reliance on Mana mirrored Gozul's and Lala's relationship. When Mana died, Allen showed no will to live, like Lala, she wanted to die with Gozul.
I don't think Kanda would really understand, not with the way their relationship had always been, his age, and his lack of understanding other people and how normal society. He probably doesn't know/care about what difficult situation Ellen is in because she chose to have a sexual relationship with him. though I doubt Kanda would feel guilty if he knew, he didn't force her into their arrangement.
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That's true, there were a lot of cruel experiments going on some years ago and they picked it up again to create the 3rds... And who knows what else is going on. There is also the thing about the sacrifice of the females in Leverrier's family. And Link even said that it would be dangerous for Leverrier to go back to central on his own - so that place is not to be trusted...
It might as well be that Hoshino doesn't give clear information, so maybe it will be up to the reader to decide about good and bad. It's D. "Gray" Man after all, so clear things as clearly good and clearly bad don't really exist? It's up to the point of view of that person judging it.
Ah, I didn't even make that connection between Gozu-Lala and Mana-Allen, but that's absolutely true.
No, I doubt Kanda would care even if he could understand the situation. Ellen chose to have that kind of relationship with him, so why should he feel bad about a decision she made? Ah, that Kanda... *lol*
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The Order is definitely a scary place... especially if Leverrier might even come under attack...
Shonen manga tend to be definitive about who is the bad guy and who is good. Maybe DGM will be different. Though, in the latest chapter, the Earl claims to be Adam, right? (we also found out what was under his hat!)
Kanda is so simple... it is true, she chose to sleep with him, but he is a very unsympathetic person.
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I'm not sure if the Earl is supposed to be THAT Adam but the mere fact that he's called Adam in a twisted christian setting is somewhat unnerving (probably in a good sense though). The lines between good and bad are very blurred in DGM. Not even doing "that which benefits humanity" is something that I can clearly label as the good thing. But I guess for my own interpretation "good" is that which will not destroy human civilization as it is (therefore I guess I'm on the Vatican's side *lol*) even though a renewal of the decadent human society could be "good" and justified (as seen in the Flood).
I like stories where good and bad are shown to be up to interpretation, it seems more realistic and interesting.
Well, maybe Kanda is also just unable to show emotion in a (for him) satisfactory way. But I guess his pride and sense of duty (and maybe past experiences) usually prevent him from being empathic... Not even with a comrade / person he is sexually involved with. He probably goes with the idea that if one has the liberty of making decisions on one's own (like Ellen when she decided to become sexually involved with him no matter the social stigma she might receive from that) then they also have to take responsibility for their actions - it's not his problem what other people decide to do or not do (but he might heartily disapprove of someone's choice, especially if his pride is hurt in the process *lol*)
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I'm always intrigued by the question "what would be acceptable to do to save humanity?" I actual have to agree with Lo Fwa. If humanity has to do such terrible things to survive, then when we do survive, we won't be human. We won't deserve to win if we had to resort to torture. though, in times of war, can I say that I will be so high-minded...?
I'm a fan of manga that puts forth these interesting ethical questions.
That is a good analysis of what Kanda would think and feel regarding his relationship with Ellen~
But would Kanda try and discourage the slander against Ellen if he overheard it? He doesn't seem to like finders much, and he might at least care for Ellen as a comrade. At the very least, he probably wouldn't like a fellow exorcist being talked about in such a degrading manner. But would he care? Obviously, he doesn't feel a responsibility towards Ellen, after all, she chose to become sexual active knowing how people would react. It wasn't like Kanda deceived her into sleeping with him.
I love the new picture of pin-up Ellen~
Lately, I've been thinking how different DGM would be if it was Ellen/Allen who was the gruff angry Second Exorcist, and Kanda was the one who met Mana and was kind... it would be interesting. He could be shocked at Walker's gender and that the cold Walker has such a feminine name as "Ellen".
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It is a very interesting question and I also am more in favour of Rofa's view; however, if there is no "normal" way to go against an enemy as the Earl and the Noah, to sacrifice part of their morales in order to counter annihilation might be acceptable to the Vatian and the Order. And torture was considered to be a legitime way of doing a process (I don't know when it was abolished, maybe 18th century?) and I fear it's still employed sometimes even today... And it makes me shudder when I think about it... So I completely understand Rofa's doubts.
Also, having Kanda "kill" Alma seems very barbaric to me; why did HE have to do it? He was a child and he was friends with Alma - no wonder Kanda is so antisocial...
As far as the accusations against Allen are concerned he mostly seems to not care about it, at least that's what he says, but he is irritated by it. But we don't really know how he would react when he overhears someone gossiping about it. Maybe if they talked badly about Ellen, then he'd react in some way, maybe a menancing glare would stop them (until he's out of sight). But I doubt he'd speak up for her...
Hihi, thanks! ^3^ Pin-ups somehow fascinate me, especially pin-up Ellen, hehe.
Hm, a position swap... Might really be interesting! We know how Allen was before he met Mana, so he (or she) would probably be even worse than that, especially if the second experiments were conducted on him/her. The problem is that we don't really know how Kanda was as a child, but Mana would have made an impact on him (maybe more than Tiedoll? But I think Tiedoll had some success in "raising" him, even though he has a bad temper)
But a Mana-raised Kanda probably would be as outraged by Allen/Ellen as Allen was outraged by Kanda's misanthropic behaviour.
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When people are desperate, they do desperate things. It just seems to me that the Order is pretty evil as well.
18th century sounds right. They did torture because they believed that crimes and deviance were caused by demon possession, and so to save the soul, they had to torture the body. Though, by the late 19th century, torture wouldn't jave been used, but maybe in this alternative time, it was still used by the church? Bak did mention something about an Inquisition and a death sentence if Allen was to be questioned by the Order.
Maybe no one was around to stop Alma? If Kanda was the only other one with regenerative abilities, Kanda might have been the only one who could get close enough to Alma to kill him. Maybe it was something the Order did to Alma that drove him crazy and Kanda thought it was his duty to stop his friend? Hopefully, in December's issue we'll find out.
Kanda might find the finders' gossip annoying, but he might expect Ellen to be mature and ignore it. Kanda is not in love with her, so he probably won't get offended on her behalf. Though he might get annoyed if he knows Ellen has overheard their rude remarks and doesn't do anything about it, even thought she is hurt by the remarks.
Ellen is very adorable~
Allen/Ellen was a really rude kid, probably because of how he/she was treated. But the clips of Kanda as a child show that he is very quiet and always in very passive positions. He seems, to me, to be a very passive and obedient child. Which makes it so funny when you compare how Kanda and Allen/Ellen turned out. Ellen is the polite one (though she fakes it) and Kanda is the rude one.
We really don't know the extent to which Kanda has lived with Tiedoll. Kanda was probably set in his ways by the time Kanda trained with a general.
I still think he swap would be interesting. I also keep on imagining the scene where Allen found of Kanda's name was Yuu, but it would have been Kanda and Lavi talking, and Kanda would have no clue who "Ellen" was, only to find out that Walker was a girl, and with a very feminine name.
I like the idea of a misanthropic-Ellen. She really would have no reason to trust anyone, especially if her only friend was killed by her own hands.
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Well, the inquisition was something in use during the 15th and 16th century to convict heretics (for example protestants) and witches. During the really bad times of witch burning torture was uses really heavily, before that the accused were tortured once and if the accused did not confess then he or she was let go because there wasn't enough proof, but for witches later on one tortured until either the "witch" died or confessed. Therefore it appeared to me as if Allen would have been treated like that, tortured until a confession was achieved and then killed and burned. But this practise should have been abolished by the time DGM's set... To be a heretic probably still is the greatest sin for the Vatican and deserves no lighter punishment than death - but I think it's very twisted that they say that and still want to use him for base, selfish reasons.
Now that you mention it, it really seems that Allen should have turned out like Kanda if not for Mana, he did become that meek little passive child that Kanda was once Mana died, while something happened to Kanda to turn his personality. Tiedoll probably didn't really succeed in changing him for the better because he was already marked too much by what had happened. Both he and Allen can't really let go even though Allen seems to have been able to let go of his former life before Mana very easily...
Kanda would probably be very different if he grew up with Mana, and the scene with the name might be really funny. Maybe I need to draw that eventually ;3
I guess Ellen would have been misanthropic and world-weary if not for Mana, and if Mana is taken from her (and Alma's "death" becomes the guilt she has to suffer from) she'd probably be worse off - but maybe she'd have a close bond to Linali, because apparently Kanda is friends with her and the two girls might have been able to bond over their mutual sufferings, even though Ellen might have later on shied away a bit from Linali as soon as Komui came. Ellen seems to be still quite vulnerable though because before Mana she was very easily hurt (because of the dog's death who had shown her kindness) so maybe that aspect would still remain the same. It's actually quite difficult to think what part of Kanda and Allen's personalities are "real" and what came thanks to Mana / Alma / Cross / whoever and whatever else there was...!
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I had thought the Inquisition was only really bad in Spain.
It is really terrible what humans managed to inflict on one another...
My era of history is 17hundreds and onwards, because I took an advanced history class in high school (their were only three other kids in the class~) but high school usually has 20th century history.
Does Switzerland have a similar education system as Germany, with several different types of high school?
DGM takes place in an alternate Victorian era, so the church might still be quiet powerful. They do manage to get a lot of funding.
Leverrier doesn't care about the lives of the exorcists, and says they must have a "pure army", so he might have no problem torturing Allen and killing him. And in times of war, people will find it justifiable to do a lot of crazy things.
I find their previous personalities hilarious when contrasted with who they became. I doubt that Mana actually changed Allen into a polite child while he was living. Allen's change probably cam about because Mana died. They could not have been together that long, so I believe that Allen adopted his current persona after Mana's death and is response to it.
It might have been Alma's death that changed Kanda, or an accumulation of other events compounded.
It seems to me that Allen is just covering up his former life before Mana arrived. His personality is probably still there, but covered by the Mask of Mana he wears.
Maybve Mana would be Japanese instead of English if Kanda was to grow up with him? He probably woudln't be called "Mana Walker", but "Kanda Mana"?
I prefer female characters to be a little jaded, other wise they are happy go-lucky and usually very annoying.
Ellen's relationship would be interesting to read about. Kanda and Linali have probably known each other for years, but don't seem too close, but girls might be different. Linali and Ellen may keep an eye out for each other and may be closer to being actual "friends" (with Ellen denying it of course. I had this hilarious scenario where Ellen thinks Kanda is falling in love with Linali, and she warns Kanda off...) though, I would imagine this story and KandaxEllen. But it may be easier for Kanda to fall (at first) so a welcoming and pleasant girl.
Ellen might have felt cast aside by Linali when Komui arrived, so that could cause a bit of tension in their current friendship. She may have felt used, and apparently girls can cacrry grudges a long time. She may have also shied away from Komui's behaviour, especially if he saw Ellen as an adorable girl and another little sister to look out for...
Well, how a person turns out are results from personal experience and some biology. It is hard to say what is natural and what experience made them that way. It is hard to say with Allen, because he grew up in such awful conditions. Kanda was born in a sterile place, but maybe he passivity is more natural than Allen's affected gentlemanly ways?
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I don't know much about what happened in Spain, but I currently have a lecture on the witch trials and they were quite terrible (especially in Germany...)
In Switzerland we used to have three seperate levels, I guess today the lower two are not that clearly distinguished anymore. It's similar to how school in Germany works, as far as I know. But what it being thought in Histroy classes depends on the school, the teacher and the main focus of the class (I don't know how to call that; you just have advanced lessons in that subject - for me it was French and Italian) - therefore I had a colourful mix, but heavily lacking knowledge on certain topics, knowing a lot on others...
Probably the Church is still very powerful, the exorcists have privileges, because they carry the sign of the pope (and I found it very funny that Link had to remind Kanda and Allen to behave more dignified because they bear that cross). But ordinary humans seem to have no clue that the Black Order exists...
But Mana somehow did change Allen into a rather meek child, no? Allen probably adopted a lot of Mana's mannerisms after his death, but he must also have had an influence on Allen when he was still alive. Though Allen also reacted to the death of Mana's dog, so maybe he just is very easily affected if people (and animals) who were friendly to him are taken away from him. But I was very surprised to see the bratty child after we had seen that poor boy crying at Mana's grave, unable to do anything...
Maybe Allen doesn't like to think back to his life before Mana? But it might help him when he has to make up or rediscover his own identity behind the mask of Mana.
Hm, I am a bit unsure about what kind of girls in manga/anime/literature I like. Not those that have not a care in the world and behave hyper all the time. If Allen were a girl, then he'd probably be my ideal heroine! Hihi. But it really depends (I love Ranka after all and she's a different type of girl...).
A scenario where Ellen thinks that Kanda is falling in love with Linali? It makes sense. It certainly seems easier to fall in love with a girly like Linali, she's pretty, gentle, nice, polite - she has all the qualities a proper girl should have (and a scary brother, and a temper if she wants to show it *lol*) And next to that Ellen - I would probably have my doubts as well. Maybe she also gets secretly jealous of Linali...
Do you think Kanda was born or created in the laboratory? I always thought that they just "collected" children (or people in general) and then conducted experiments. But I'm not sure... Anyway, there weren't many people that interacted with Kanda and could influence him. Alma probably did and he is half-dead at the moment. Kanda at least doesn't make a big secret of his feelings (at least not when he's angry and the like)...
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Because I live in North America, we only talk about the Salem Witch Trials.
In the first volume, where Allen meet Jan. There is a new organization set up called the new world alliance (I can't remember if that is the name...) But I figured that it was actually the Dark Order, but a more publicly recognized name, possibly secular group the Order masqueraded as. In volume 2, Kanda and Allen jump onto the train and their rose cross is recognized, so people must have some idea of who they are. But probably not about the Earl.
I think Allen's meek behaviour is part of the "Mask of Mana" Cross referred to. I think Allen was stil resentful and angry up, and maybe too embarrassed to admit how much Mana meant to him. Maybe Allen didn't realize or appreciate his kindness until Mana died. which is why Allen really has such regret when he thinks about Mana. Allen might not have fully trusted Mana while alive, too. I can't imagine such a bitter child giving trust easily.
Maybe Allen has burried his old personality and has taken up Mana's?
It will be nice to see Allen act differently.
yes! Allen/Ellen would be my ideal heroine as well~ She would not act very girly or be hyper.
But would Kanda be falling in love with Linali? She has many lovely qualities, and when compared to a difficult girl like Ellen, Ellen would certainly understand that Kanda would prefer that.
I think secretly jealous would be a possible outcome, but it would only make Ellen angrier and take it out on Kanda during training.
But would Ellen be the older and Kanda younger?
I hope that Kanda wouldn't fall for Linali... he can think she is cute and maybe blush once or twice and being very impressed with her skill. That is fine... But he should really like Ellen!
I'm not really sure about what I think Kanda's past was like. They were making exorcists, but were they making people? If the scientists were that accomplished, why did they stop making exorcists? Maybe they don't have the tools anymore?
I'm looking forward to that being revealed.
It was probably the Order collecting children.
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I once watched part of a movie about the Salem Witch Trials but couldn't watch it to the end because I was horrified by the villagers' behaviour! Grr!
It would make sense that there's a better known name for the BO, because there must be a way to explain how the BO can have such privileges without telling people about Innocence and Akuma (I doubt anybody would believe them *lol*). They are probably known on the trains that they always have to board in the vicinity of headquarters, but I doubt that random people would recognize the cross. The Vatican has probably sent notices to the railway stations and hotels to inform them that exorcists should have free quarters / train rides.
Hm, I never thought about it that way, maybe he was still bratty towards Mana, it's a possibility. But his love for him must have been real (or maybe caused by the 14th? who knows, for Allen it was real though).
Well, maybe Kanda would have a little boyish crush on Linali, but it would stop later on? Hm... if too many things about their initial character would be changed (like the age, the heritage, the character, the interactions) then it would nearly be the same as if Kanda got turned into a girl. Some key points would need to be the same. Hmm... And I guess Allen is usually taken to be older (because of the white hair?) so maybe Kanda would be surprised to find her younger than him? But would she even have white hair? Mana wasn't there after all... But anyway, I agree; Kanda should still like Ellen no matter what! *lol*
Creating people from scraps seems like a gothic element to me, but it somehow doesn't really feel right. I think they "just" created exorcists; the thirds were people that got turned into exorcits via Alma's cells (if I understood correctly). Maybe the scientists did form them out of some different substance (Innocence, Dark Matter...) but I would like it better if Kanda used to be a normal child that then got turned into a tool of the BO...
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No one would believe that there was an immortal wizard going around resurrecting the dead to create and army and destroy the world. So, the BO must go by another name when it interacts with the world.
Hm, it would be strange that the exorcists could get free board/train rides unless the establishments themselves were roman catholic ones.
I really want those questions answered! Did Allen become a tame child before or after Mana's death? Is Allen's love real?
Kanda might just have admiration for Linali? Or maybe try and ask Linali things about Ellen?
If Ellen was a misanthrope, maybe seeing Kanda and Linali together would just harden her heart further? After all, she has been hurt before and would not want anymore close relationships with others. And by the time Kanda figures out his own feelings for Ellen, she might have thrown hers away...
Yes, Kanda might be surprised that such a competent and strong exorcists was in fact three years younger. But maybe it would be Kanda with the curse, and maybe even white hair?
Maybe Kanda likes strong women? He should like Ellen the most~ I don't much like the idea of Kanda "settling" for Ellen, when he really likes Linali.
I suppose we might find out the real story behind the Second Exorcists in a few weeks~ I can't make up my mind about them, so maybe they were taken in by the Order. If Kanda is Japanese, it make more sense for them to have found a Japanese child than to have created one...
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Maybe the order / vatican has made deals with the railway system or whatever they exorcists use; if they are paid enough then the establishments might not really care. I remember that when Kanda was in the hospital after the Matel incident he gave the BO's card so that the payment could be settled, maybe that's how things are also done. The exorcists use the faculties and send the bills to the BO (but it's still a bit surprising that this works everywhere in the world...)
Allen's childhood is really something I want to know more on and his relationship with Mana gets shadier and shadier! Or maybe just Mana after all... I wonder if we'll get answers to these questions, because apparently Allen has already decided that Mana loved him and that his love for Mana was real, even though that might not be the truth...
I think Kanda would admire Linali, but not necessarily for romantic reasons and he could use her as a means to get information about Ellen, it might be more rewarding than asking Ellen...
True, Ellen might jump to conclusions to fast, especially as she's already a bit jealous of Linali and sees that Kanda seems to be attracted to Linali in some way. But if Kanda's like Allen then he would probably continue to try to be friendly to Ellen, but she might not appreciate it...
I don't think that Kanda would try to win Ellen if he really were interested in Linali, unless he's a masochist, but I doubt it ;3 Hm... I wonder if Kanda would also turn someone in an Akuma, he seems emotinally stronger than Allen, but maybe he still would if given the chance... He couldn't turn Alma into an Akuma because he was still alive...
Less than two weeks until the next chapter's out! I am curious! I might be a bit disappointed if Kanda turns out to be created, but I can't really explain why...
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By this time, I don't think the Vatican would have much power... I wonder where they get that money? Maybe under the guise of being the New world organization, it can appeal to governments for funding.
So, the exorcists work on credit? Hm, maybe it doesn't work everywhere in the world. After all, Cross had Allen working off debt (or maybe that was because Cross didn't want the BO to know where they were).
I wonder how insane Mana was near the end of his life. I'm pretty sure that Mana named Allen after his dog, so whether he really loved Allen is up for debate. I'd actually prefer a darker truth; that Mana never actually loved Allen.
I don't think Allen could go on if he accepted that truth though...
Hm~ I really doubt that Ellen would freely give information out as well~ She'd tell him to shut up or mind his own business, so a long-time female friend would be best if Kanda wanted information about his crush. Of course, Ellen would misinterpret that. I think Ellen just might reject Kanda's feelings anyway... if they have nothing to do with her work as an exorcist, and if he knows that Kanda's about to self-destruct (like she is), than she might be hesitant to involve herself.
Ellen might try to convince herself that she doesn't care if Kanda likes Linali, because Ellen 'is not interested in that sort of stuff'.
Whether it's a question of emotional strength, I think it also has to depend on backgrounds. Mana was the only person Allen had ever loved, so I think the loss hit him hard.
Maybe the Earl plans on killing Alma, so Kanda will resurrect Alma, kill Kanda and then the Earl will have a valuable tool.
So soon~ I'm looking forward to the new chapter~ Do you know what day its supposed to be released?
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I think the church still has many supporters that are willing to spend huge amounts of money for it.
I remember that Komui once said that they cannot track Cross because he doesn't send the bills to the BO like the other Generals do. He just had poor Allen (and Jasdebi) pay them!
I want Mana to be "not good" in some way or another; whether he didn't love Allen or whether he used Allen as a tool. I just don't want him redeemed that easily and really hope that Allen confronts the problem in stead of just deluding himself - of course, Allen has no way of finding out, and he does say that it's best to ignore things that you cannot find an answer to...
Well, Ellen would doubt Kanda anyway and consider developing feelings for him like an unnecessary thing that will only cause her despair anyway. How Kanda could convince her that it's not a waste of time, I don't really know >w<
The Earl probably wants to use Alma in some way and in order to be able to use him he needs Kanda to do something. I really hope that Kanda won't become an emotional wreck because I wouldn't like that...!!
The chapter should be out on the 4th of December officially. If it's really early we might get raws on Sunday or Monday? Last time it was out before Halloween, 4 days before the official release date. I'm already waiting for spoilers ;3
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The roman catholic church still would have been very wealthy, and would have had many public and private supporters.
Cross is so sneaky~ Allen probably thought Cross was being a jerk, when it had an actual legitimate purpose. And Allen got a neat skill out of it.
I wants Mana to be really flawed. After all, his brother was what was most important to him, not Allen. And he was insane... I don't think Allen will confront the truth about Mana's deception for awhile. He ignores things that he can't understand, which can be practical or dangerous. Facing the truth about Mana may not be something he has the luxury to do.
I'm not sure how Ellen and Kanda could get together... maybe after the war, if they were both surprised to be alive...
Kanda as an emotional wreck would be so wrong~ He looked so glassy-eyed in the last chapter, and I hope he wakes up!
Ah~ I would love to get the next chapter soon~ But this week is so busy, it's the last week of the semester for me, and I have 4 papers due... would I have the time to read the new chapter (I would make time...).
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It would just take something away from Allen as a character if the person he really trusted in was actually worthy of his trust and love; if he had to face the flaws of Mana, this could make him grow and adds some nice drama! I wonder how insane Mana was, we only heard from Cross that he was mad towards the end of his life, it would be nice to know when it started. Maybe with the death of his brother? Or when he thought he had found his brother again in Allen (which is true to some extend after all... his brother is within Allen...) The best would be if Mana was totally sane and still used Allen as a tool, I would have sufficient reason to dislike him! ;3 (But maybe Hoshino doesn't want to do that to Allen...)
I think surviving the war might surprise both of them and force them to rethink what to do; why not get together with a person one can trust? And if Ellen would have shied away from Kanda because she feared that a love between them would have been pointless because both would die, then she might dare to love him now.
I also hope Kanda wakes up, he would lose his charm if he remained so passive and vulnerable... Meh... No spoilers yet! ;__; But you're right, I would have other things to do than read DGM (which wouldn't stop me from reading though)! Good luck on your papers!
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I like a tragic past in my main characters, and if Mana really did love Allen, then it would take away from that. I want Mana to be flawed and that would force Allen to confront that truth and change because of it. Hoshino might give us a flashback of Mana's life and that would give us a clear idea of his sanity. though, I'm pretty sure Mana named Allen after that dog...
I'd say the insanity would have started with the death of the 14th.
I would prefer disliking Mana if that was the case.
To be used as a tool by the one person he loved, no wonder Allen doesn't want to confront the past.
I think that misanhropic Ellen would be surprised to have survived the war-I doubt she had many plans, but now she would have the opportunity to make them.
Though, woudl she have the sword or her arm? I'm like to see Ellen with mugen....
There have been 2 false rumors, but if the new chapter comes out Friday, shouldn't there be confirmed rumors yet~
Kanda had better get his act together~
Thank you~ I have two papers finished now.
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I also thought he named Allen after that dog, but I'm not so sure anymore, because a friend read it differently, but I still use to claim that he did give Allen the dog's name.
I am still very much confused about Mana, who he was and how he stands in relation to the Noah family (the latest chapter didn't clear things up...). I really hope Allen confronts the issue instead of ignoring it, of course it's painful and it might be easier to go on pretending and believing, but... in the long run it won't do him any good. I am quite surprised how bratty he behaved about the whole "14 taking over his body" ordeal. It's almost too overdone...
But if it will all explode into a huge dramatic revelation that will deeply shake Allen then I'm fine with that as well - so much sadism for my beloved characters ;3 I can't help it, seeing characters struggle through emotional highs and lows (especially lows) is my guilty pleasure.
Well, I think Ellen couldn't really afford to make plans to the future. If she is the kind of pessimistic girl that doesn't believe in dreams and doing things that might prove painful, then she probably didn't allow herself to think forward to a time where she would live without the burdens of war. I was thinking about whether she'd have Mugen or Crown Clown as well; if she's a second then it's unlikely that she's a real parasite type (even though I don't really know what kind of Innocence seconds have... or if it's even real Innocence). So maybe she'd have a sword? But maybe a western sword would suit her better than an Asian one? I'm not sure, it's Zuu forging the Innocence after all, so it might still be a katana...
Kanda did get his act together! I am glad! :3
I'm glad that I only have to write one essay this semester, the rest is exams. At least it's over once it's Christmas ;3
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In that chapter, Mana didn't even know the little helper (Allen's) name, but maybe he was just pretending? but to me, Mana's monologue looked like he was talking to the dead dog. That Mana called Allen after his dog speaks to just how cruel life has been to Allen. Not only was he just a replacement for Mana's brother, Mana didn't even give him a real name, but a "used" name.
Just what type of person is the 14th? Why does he want to be the 14th?
I remember Road making a comment that the Noah were only sacrifices for the Earl...
I also love seeing my favourite characters hit rock bottom...
Ellen could still have a katana. I've done fencing (western) and Iaido (Japanese) sword styles. I would like to see Ellen with an eastern sword.
Maybe the story can take place after the war or near the end, instead of having to rewrite the entire story arc, or only write a few stories dealing with missions Ellen and Kanda take part in. The BO probably thinks that it owns Ellen, as they did create her. That could be a source of conflict. Kanda might also have trouble leaving the Order, and dislikes the fact that Ellen isn't fighting it.
Kanda and Alma seem to be the only surviving Seconds, but Mugen seems to be real Innocence.
Oh Kanda~ Kidnapping Road just for her hair tie~ Not recognizing Alma. Don't ever change~ (I had assumed that they would be childhood friends, but maybe it was a one-sided friendship?)
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Yes, it seems as if he was talking to the dog... Maybe we'll be told later on. I guess for Allen it doesn't really matter, but I'd be very curious how he was called before meeting Mana. Or how Kanda was called before getting into those experiments (I am under the impression that he might have been called differently, but it's not certain)
The sacrificial lamb image is kind of strange now, because the Earl is a Noah as well. The only thing that raises "Adam" above his Noah siblings is that he also hold the title "Earl of Millennium" (or so I've concluded) but why should he have it in his power to sacrifice the other Noahs? I also wonder what the 14th's purpose is. If there is a power behind all this "reviving" the Noahs then who decided that there should be a 14th?
Judging from the last chapter the 14th isn't that agreeable and his aims (if they are true) seem to be petty villain aims that lead to a position with immense power (if that is true). If the Earl is the "father" of the Akuma, and the Akuma will be something like the next "race" after the second coming of the Three Days of Darkness, then wouldn't that make the Earl some kind of God? If the 14th just wants to be God, then he's a power hungry villain. >w< But that would be boring...
True. A Katana would be nice after all. I think I wouldd get bored rewriting the entire story again, so setting it towards the end of the war might be a good idea (and covering the past interaction of the two in little flashbacks. Kanda and Allen don't have that much interaction anyway as Kanda's mostly away from the order)
Well, I can imagine that the BO thinks it owns Ellen and maybe Ellen also just sees herself as a tool that will do its duty and be cast away afterwards.
Ah, I'm very curious, it'd be difficult waiting for the next chapter! I really want to see some light shed on the Second experiment!
I think Kanda recognized Alma and that their friendship was real, but he doesn't cry after the dead and maybe refuses to open new wounds by realizing that Alma isn't even dead. Kanda doesn't think much apparently, so if Alma is dead, then he's dead, it cannot be that he survived.
But I found it interesting that he didn't react all too violently to Alma (but he was irritated when Rhode called him a failure that Kanda disposed of) but he was very disturbed by the mentioning of "that person". I think Kanda is a quite intersting character and I hope we'll see more of his personality (and how great that Allen is there to witness it! 
And here I was, believing that Alma was that person! Hoshino fooled me! X3
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I wonder what name Allen went with before Mana, or why he decided to change his name? I really hope for more of Allen's past to be revealed. It's just so sad and depressing and dark and so I love it.
I thought that in an earlier volume's extras said that the Earl was actually an old magician (I had thought the Count of St. Germain. Maybe the Earl wants to be God?
Ah, the 14th... he's turning out to be much different from what I had expected. But I'm not too disappointed yet! He seems to be very power-hungry, but what did Mana think of that?
Kanda was absent from the manga for a long time (I was so happy when he showed up in Edo~). But writing that story as a collection of one-shots might be best. You are already writing the series with Ivory Tales (Ah, Charlene loves her daughter but she might drive Ellen away by forcing her to chose between her mother and Kanda...). But I woudl really enjoy that series with a tough-misanthropic Ellen and Kanda as the nice-one. they wouldn't have much interaction until after the Arc anyway, so maybe Kanda's crush on the experienced exorcist Ellen would grow?
Leverrier has already said that the exorcists are their pawns and that it doesn't matter if they live or die. If Ellen grew up with being constantly told that, she just might believe it (but not necessarily like it). Linali would have received the same teachings, but she seemed to have struggled and tried to escape, and she at least Linali had Komui. Ellen wouldn't have had anyone to change her mind... I think the BO would try and keep Ellen until she was useless to them (i.e dead or unable to fight).
It seems the next chapter will reveal Kanda's past~ Well finally see the Second Experiment and little-Kanda~
"That Person" wasn't Alma, true~ And Hoshino really had us believing that~
So, who could that Woman be? I hope not a love interest... maybe someone he wants dead?
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I think it's actually strange that Allen would let Mana change his name... I really wonder if we'll see more of Allen's past, it would be very intersting but what is there to show us before Allen and Mana met?
I first thought the Earl was supposed to be based on the "Wandering Jew" (who was cursed to wander the earth, unable to die, because he ridiculed Jesus when he was on his way to be crucified) when I read that bit about the magician. As far as I know St.Germain was also said to not age and this was merged somehow with the legend of the wandering jew. But yeah, I don't know much about it - but if Hoshino planned him to have a similarity to either one of these two "legends" then it still fits. The Earl says that he can never stop walking after all (just like Allen) but I don't know what kind of goal he might have... He wiped out humanity before and he seems to be preparing to do the same again.
I guess Mana probably didn't judge his brother, no matter what kind of overreacher tendencies he had... From his point of view they just were confronted with the cruelty of being hunted by the Noah / the Earl, so he might think that anything the 14th does must be better than the plans of the Noahs...
Yeah... I just think that rewriting the same material over and over again will get boring after a while - the story would need to be written in a way that maybe mostly shows seens that we did not see, sometimes making references to those that did happen (like Matel as the ultimate Kanda-Allen scene *lol*). Well, when Ellen made quite an impression on him the first time they saw, he might develop fantasies about her while seperated...
(Well, in the end Ellen will have to let go of her mother anyway - she is slowly realizing that her mother and Mana have faults as well. Charlene means well, but maybe she's too harsh on Ellen - if she allowed herself to be more emotinal instead of practical (marrying her to someone undesirable, trying to dissolve Kanda and Ellen's marriage etc) then Ellen might not be as torn as she's now)
I'm looking forwards to the next DGM chapter! I don't really care about Alma, but I want to see more of Kanda! ^3^
Well, "that person" being a love interst seems unlikely if one considers how Kanda was 9 when that incident happened. But it might be. Maybe there was a young girl there that told him to kill Alma (or Alma threatened her in some way) that now grew up to be a beautiful woman to become a love interst, but I don't really believe it.
I think it's someone from the team that was in charge of the project, maybe even a woman that was directly involved, maybe via being an original "womb" (some kind of Eve figure maybe?). So I'd rather have her be a cold-hearted grown up woman / mother figure. That would be twisted and less corny than a childhood love...
I wonder if it will do Kanda any good that Allen is there to witness it...
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If Mana did not name Allen, I wonder who did? His past has not been explained, but I would say that it will be dark (Hoshino has said DGM will take a darker turn) and when looking at Allen`s behavior with Mana, I think it is safe to say that Allen was abused in some way. He was so suspicious and so resentful.
When did the Earl say he could not stop walking? I can`t remember, but that it so interesting-maybe Mana picked up that `never stop walking` mantra from his brother, who learned it from the Earl?
I do not think it was ever stated that the Earl was St.Germain, but it was hinted at in vol. 1 that he was a century`s old magician-alchemist.
I want to know what type of relationship the Walker brothers had! Cross said Mana said with 14 through their whole lives, but did Mana do that out of love or duty? Did he think his little brother was a monster, or did he whole-heatedly support him?
During Matel, Allen did act like a stereotypical shonen character in front of Kanda. He wanted to save Gozul and Lala no matter what and was willing to sacrifice himself for strangers. He also showed a very twisted side to his character. He admitted that he had nothing he actually cared about (something he never admits to anyone, and only reflect upon it further in China). It really is a great Kanda-Allen scene, that and in Edo when Kanda attacked Allen, and when the act in unison...
I would be pointless to rewrite the series, but possibly a few invented scenes and rewriting the scenes were they do interact.
I think Ellen would have left a very strong impression of Kanda-especially considering how they would have first met. She would have unapologetically tried to kill him. Then, injured, she would have saved his life in Matel.
Maybe Kanda likes strong women who are impressive warriors. He would have been Cross`s student, so he might have an idea of what he likes in a woman. Allen seems to have rejected a lot of his master`s teachings, but maybe Kanda would have at least formulated an idea of what he finds ideal in a girl (though would he be a bit of a womanizer?)
Kanda would have a lot of time to fantazise about Ellen, because they would not see each other for several months...
I look forward to the real confrontation between Charlene and Ellen. Ellen has previously stated that she wants to be Kanda`s wife, and has gotten angry with her mother. I can`t imagine Ellen rejecting Kanda now. I hope she doesn`t and stands against her mother. I also look forward to Charlene cornering Kanda and interrogating him.
Ellen must have really grown up if she is starting to use her own judgments and not her mothers and realizing the people she loves are also deeply flawed. She even says that her old standards (money and status) are not good measuring tools! I was so happy when Ellen said that!
I don`t think Kanda is the type of get a love interest... she was probably a scientist. I also hope Kanda is looking for her because he wants revenge.
I wonder what will happen to Kanda and Allen`s relationship after Allen knows his past. Kanda will just tell Allen to forget what he saw, but maybe Allen will leave the Order after all. If the Order did something very terrible, he might reject it.
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Maybe Allen was in an orphanage very early on and received a name there? But he did adopt Mana's last name, so it could also be that he accepted the name Mana gave him. Well, it seems that Allen got into fights (for example with Cosimo, but I don't know why) and if I remember correctly he said that he has no need of friends because when he's older he'll be gone anyway (I don't know if he meant that he will have left the place or if he'd be dead by them, but probably he meant the first). But he probably was abused, if not physically then mentally because people probably rejected him because of his hand. That this hurt him greatly and he only assumed a tough front is evident though in the way he reacted to the the dog's "kindness" and later on death... Hmm, I would really like to see more! But first, Kanda!
Here: [link] (The Millennium Earl cannot stand still) But I don't really know what to make of it because he also says they can't keep him from standing. A typo? A deliberate contradiction? Anyway, if it's the Millennium Earl that cannot stop walking then maybe the 14th started using as well because he aimed to become Millennium Earl. About Mana; well, I find it really suspicious that the Earl/Adam and Mana seem to resemble eachother, but I don't really know if I should read conspiracies into it... Anyway, it might be that Mana taught Allen because his brother used to say it (and he might have seen his brother in Allen anyway...)
Well... Magician Alchemist somewhat sounds like St.Germain - but I only know the guy from the Anime Chevalier D'Eon and some snippets I've picked up while browsing wikipedia...
The way Mana treated Allen (if he thought it was his brother) makes me think that he did it out of love and not out of a sense of duty. But I'd like Mana to be wicked so I'd also like it if he feared / disliked his brother because he was a monster. It maybe depends on how the 14th behaved, he seems quite unfriendly in one way but gentle in the other... Maybe he was so manipulative that Mana gladly followed.
Almost all Kanda-Allen scenes could be used as great material. And I like Allen for being so outspoken about his worldview even though he can't cound on being respected for it.
Hehe, a Kanda that was an apprentice to Cross, I fear that this probably doesn't turn out too favourable ;3 Allen probably didn't care a bit about al the women, while Kanda, a bit older, might be kind of influenced by what he saw. A strong woman would probably be preferrable to him. Kanda already has his good looks!
Ellen has to confront many issues about her family at the moment and the fact that she has doubts about Mana probably gave her strenght to also doubt her mother - even if just the set of values she has. Ellen accepted Kanda as her partner, therefore it would be difficult for her to have this bond torn apart now (even though she still is a bit scared of how it will turn out).
Hm. I don't think Allen can really reject the order - the organization yes, but if he'd abandon the order he'd also abandon his friends. Maybe the Earl miscalculates his reaction (just like Wisely did with Kanda's reaction upon seeing Alma) and think he'd react like any emotional person does upon seeing something they trusted in being false. However, it might also be that Allen uses the "I don't want to see suffering before my eyes" thing again. He thoughtlessly left Madarao behind with a Noah he can't possibly defeat to chase after Tokusa and he probably would do anything to save Kanda (if that is necessary) or the people in the North America Branch even though it might have severe consequences for him...
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If Allen received his name from an orphanage, I think he would be more willing to cast that name aside. I'm not actually sure of the naming practices for orphans in the 19th century. I think orphanages named the children if they weren't left with names. Maybe Mana didn't actually give Allen permission to use Walker, but Allen took in anyway? Or Mana let Allen use it for traveling purposes (it would look bad for a grown man traveling with a child that was not his)
I think Allen meant that he wanted to grow up so he wouldn't have to rely on others, he had to stay at the circus because it was the place where he worked and he might not have been able to get work elsewhere. He wanted to grow up, possible because he saw adulthood as a time when no one could abuse him.
I think Cozimo was just a bad person who liked to hurt people and animals.
I hope Hoshino really does go into detail on Allen's childhood.
I can only hope that Hoshino clarifies what the Earl means. I liked Le Chevalier D'Eon- D'Eon was very pretty.
The relationship between the Walker brothers is very ambiguous- did they love one another? It seems logical to assume that, but Hoshino has tricked the readers before. Really, only time will reveal it.
Allen seems to accept that his worldview will be rejected and he will encounter hostility because of it. Marie has already warned him that it will cause trouble. (In the version where Ellen is a misanthropist, Marie would be a good older brother watching out for her- warning Kanda not to break her heart~)
Kanda doesn't seem to be vain, he doesn't even take care of his hair properly. But being raised by Cross, he probably figured out that he was handsome and maybe he even used it to his advantage. He could have used it to have others pays Cross' bills. Sexuality would have been noticed early on, so Kanda might have formulated what type of woman he liked.
I think Ellen doubting her family, the foundation on which she based a lot of her beliefs on, it very good to have her develop as a character and no longer be a spoiled rich girl.
She has even confronted and disagreed with her mother~ I would say that Charlene (though feeling proud, doesn't want Ellen disagreeing with her) might blame Kanda for that. But it really is that Ellen is growing up and living in the world.
Allen also accepted the 3rd experiments, while Lo Fwa rejected them. But this could simply be Allen's mentality not to worry over things he can't understand. Will Allen reject the BO? Could the Order do something so terrible that Allen would have to face it and reject it?
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Well, if Mana saw his brother in Allen then it's only natural that he would assume the last name Walker. Now I wonder if the Walker siblings also travelled around performing as clowns...
I think we'll get more flashbacks to Allen's childhood because there is still this odd contrast between the bratty Allen Mana took in and the Allen that was so devastated that he brought Mana back to life. I would really like to see more of young Allen! Either before Mana, with Mana or with Cross, anything would be nice, I'm not that picky. ;3
Yeees, D'Eon was really pretty, especially in Lea's dress. And Kanda's voice actor voiced Robespierre! Hihi. (Btw, I just had a look in the German edition of Vol. 1 and judging by what Hoshino wrote about the Earl it really appears to be St.Germain...)
It would be quite twisted of Hoshino to actually have a bad relationship between Mana and the 14th! I would probably like that anyway, seeing as it would also influence Allen quite a bit.
The image of Kanda using his good looks for his benefit seems really funny! But it wouldn't be strange for Cross' pupil! Allen can't really do that because he's not handsome like Kanda is, so he had to resort to gambling X3
And having seen quite some women Kanda probably does know what type of woman he wants (or at least what type of woman he does not want)
Well, Allen on his own does not need the BO, he is capable of saving souls without wearing his exorcist's uniform and neither does the Innocence need the organization. He could leave them, but what could make him want to not only turn his back on the BO (still the place that is connected to his friends) and turn to the Earl's side? Because the Earl's goal apparently is to get the 14th back... Even though I don't really know what he wants to do with him...
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Maybe the Walker brothers did travel as clowns. It seems an easy and unassuming way to travel, especially if they were on the run from the Earl. Traveling in such a large group would make it hard to spot them.
Yes! Robespierre voice was Kanda's! There are times when I get tired of hearing voice actors, but I will never tire of his voice. That and Kobayashi and Paku Romi.
Hoshino might have changed her mind about basing the Earl on St. Germain. In her latest interview, she does admit to having changed back stories (I assumed she meant Kanda). Or she might tie in Adam with St. Germain.
I would love more back story, but we have to wait so long! At least when DGM was weekly, immediate plot points could distract me from the larger story. It might he a long time before the Walker brother's relationship will be revealed.
Allen is cute, but so bizarre looking that he almost has to act like a gentlemen to make up for it. While Kanda is a very handsome man, and he would see the benefit to using his looks and might not have many problems with manipulating others. Especially if he isn't very good at math, so he woudln't be able to gamble like Allen could. He could have used his good looks to get women (and men?) to pick up Cross' bills! If Ellen ever found out, she might be very jealous!
This story is really coming alive to me~
Allen really doesn't need the BO to follow his calling. But the other exorcists aren't really attached to the BO at all, either. Linali is only there because of her brother, Lavi is there because he is a Bookman, and Kanda has no interest in the church.
I think the Noah are necessary to whatever plot the Earl has. While they were in the arc, Rhode said the Noah were the Earl's sacrifices. Maybe they really do need the 14th, where he is an ally or nor.
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I guess the two of them just needed a way to get by, the earn a little money to survive, but something that didn't hold them back if they needed to run... Like with Mana and Allen. And I doubt the Earl sent his Akuma or allies to look for the 14th in circus tents... However, Mana and Allen were street performers, they could easily be spotted by someone searching for them (or an Akuma, if the Akuma knew how Mana looked or if the Earl was actively searching for Mana for whatever reason...) I just recalled that we still don't know how Mana died...
I also love all of these voice actors! Though I am sometimes under the impression that Kanda's voice actor sounds similar in each role, even though he manages so breath an unique soul into each of them (like Paku Romi!). But other voice actors change so drastically from role to role that I can't even tell from the beginning that it's them! I find that truly amazing! >w<
Poor Ellen! The men are always more beautiful than her! >w< Well, it's an interesting concept! Wah, there are so many stories I'd like to write, I feel conflicted! *lol* You seem to be good with coming up with ideas and developing them! Don't you write fanfiction as well?
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I wonder how long Mana and the 14th were hiding from the Earl. Presumably, the 14th tried to kill the earl, failed, and then went into hiding. But for how long did they hide and what ended up killing the Walkers?
In the anime, Mana was hit by a carriage, but the manga will be different.
There are only a few voice actors I recognize easily and Sakurai, Romi and Kobayashi are three. I love how these two women don't have that annoying high pitched, squeaky voices that are so popular in Japan. But then again, they are usually cast to play young men.
I think Ellen has her own charm~ Her eyes are silver, the scar is striking and she has a small shape (which is popular today, but would not have been in the 19th century). I like her hair colour, but it would look better if it were longer~
I don't write fanfiction. I can come up with ideas, edit, and discuss. But I cannot write. Three years of university have drained me from wanting to write anything that isn't academic.
Congratulations on finishing your BA!
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Hm, maybe if it was 30 years ago that the 14th killed the Noahs and tried to kill the Earl, they've been on the run since then? But that still does not answer the question on how long it took the Earl to hunt the 14th down and kill him. Logically speaking, the 14th can't have died before passing his memory on to Allen and Allen's been alive only for 15 to 16 years (and must have been younger when the 14th transferred his memories to him - because Mana was alone...). Ahh... I wonder when we'll get some more information on it...
I was very sceptical when the Anime depicted Mana's death as the result of being hit by a carriage. Maybe the cause of his death really was nothing spectacular, there are a lot of ways that he could have died without the Earl having his hands in it. I guess that before it was hinted that there was a connection between Mana and the Earl's side, I assumed the cause of his death to be nothing out of the ordinary (maybe illness).
I also think Ellen's pretty (Allen too, of course. Not the kind of pretty Kanda is, but still good looking in his own right)! I like long hair best too, but with Allen he also looks good with the way he wears his hair right now - if only it were longer at the back, then it'd be perfect.
>w< For me it was rather the other way around - I've been writing original fiction for a few years now but I rarely wrote fanfiction before I started university. Being in university and having to write academic texts probably just helped to improve my writing - especially as I learnt how to properly word stuff in English. But sometimes having to write papers drains me of inspiration (or maybe not inspiration, but the willingness to sit in front of my screen and produce something), so I can also relate to that...
Thank you! I don't know yet if I passed but having the exams over is a good thing. How long does it take you to complete the BA? Or do you already have it? You said you have three years of university behind you. Only half a year less than me, but you're younger than I am! Ah, now I feel kind of slow... >w<
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I guess we have to wait until the time line is flashed out. Since Cross is 35 years old, how would he have met the 14th? He couldn't have, so maybe a follower introduced him? There are so many questions and I hope Hoshino remembers to answer them... I had thought the 14th chose Allen to carry his memories, because that's what Cross implied-or was he saying that Mana should have chosen someone worthless?
I really did like it when Allen's hair was long and when he had a ponytail as a child. I wonder if Mana convinced him to cut it?
If Allen's hair was longer in the back, I think it would be a mullet(?)
I would find is stressful to write fanfiction- I would feel obligated to finish a story and take criticism too harshly.
I've noticed ever since I entered university I don't read as much fiction. Everything I read is related to school and when I have time to read leisurely, it is all DGM fanfiction or DGM manga.
It usually takes 4 years to get a BA, if a student plans their courses right. It is hard to graduate earlier. I don't have my BA yet, but I will be graduating in spring 2011 with a double major and still have it in 4 years. I had to take a few summer courses though.
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Cross could have met the 14th directly (because it's not entirely clear how old Cross really is or if it's true that the 14th died so many years ago, he might have died more recently). But it's also possible that Cross never really met the 14th and doesn't know that much about the truth after all... The 14th chose Allen I think because he's someone nobody would miss and if he chose him, well it can't have been too many years ago, because I don't think he could have chosen Allen long before the boy was even born (unless he's also some kind of experiment like Kanda, but there's no evidence for that so I doubt it...)
Maybe Allen cut his hair because it was a bother? Or maybe Mana told him because with short hair he resembles his brother? Hehe, had to google mullet, but that old hair style is quite flashy! Well, I wouldn't mind Allen growing his hair out again! It was a bit sad when it was short again, but I liked his hair when he changed it after talking with Cross!
That's true... I realized that if you don't update regularly, then people lose interest, but I just can't write regularily if I don't have the inspiration to do so... And criticism... well... I don't get that much actually, don't know if that is good or bad. I'm usually a bit touchy when it gets to criticism that I find unfounded, but if it's really helpful then I appreciate it (I learnt a few things *lol*). And for me it's very interesting to see how readers react, if I only write for myself I won't know if something works or not... The bad thing is that if I once said something and published it, I cannot take it back when I realize that I made a mistake >w< That is probably what stresses me the most!
I don't read fanfiction anymore... Not since I started writing myself even though I've read tons and tons of fanfiction, probably almost everything there was for the Kanda and Allen pairing, but now I just can't do that anymore...!
So it takes a bit longer. I guess it really depends on what subject one studies... I took longer than three years (which would be enough for English) because I just didn't manage to do everything for history in 6 semesters. One would need to plan very carefully from the very first semester...
What exactly do you study?
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