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StazJohnson — Pandora: issue 4 page 5
Published: 2013-12-03 11:58:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 443; Favourites: 2; Downloads: 7
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Description
Recently (as of writing: Dec 2013) I have been producing thumbnails/layouts for DC Comics Pandora: Trinity Of Sin. These are mostly to take the script & work out the basic visual storytelling, & as such they are minimal on detail, but should indicate the general flow of the action. They are then given to series artist Francis Portela, who interprets them as closely or loosely as he sees fit when he draws the actual art.The thumbs are drawn at a very small scale (though not exactly the size of your actual thumbnail) ... about 5cm x 12 cm
I know there's a way to do a neat little link complete with the avatar etc, but I don't know how to do that, so here's a more traditional link to Francis' DA page.. portela.deviantart.com/
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Comments: 7
1) it's done like this, but without any spaces between the colons : icon username : so,
2) is there any difference between what you are calling thumbnails/layouts on one hand and what the industry calls pencil breakdowns (as opposed to page breakdowns - which is something else)? I recently had a discussion with Bob McLeod over this use of the term. He calls it alternately a further development of a rough and an intermediary step between loose layout and tight pencil. Key traits are lack of rendering and background detail. It is difficult for me to get a grip on the notion, but seems to me these qualify as "pencil breakdowns".
3) Tell me if I'm thinking like a good editor - I would combine panels 1 and 2 by insetting 2. This would allow capturing two beats in one moment so that the head position in 2 can be the same as in panel 1, which points the eye diagonally to the start of panel 3. Good thinking? Yes? No? Why? Why not?
In any event, seems to me that THIS is where the real work is done. 
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The approach you suggest with panel 1 & 2 would have worked equally well as what I have here. These are just the choices we make at this stage... if you gave the same script to 100 artists you would get 100 different ways of tackling the storytelling, & who is to say which is 'right' or 'wrong', so long as it tells the story.
The difference between thumbnails & layouts is basically that thumbnails just establish the basic storytelling.. who is on which side of the panel, is it a longshot or a close up etc etc. But more significantly, it is a contractual thing, which is not something I can go into here.
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Okay. Thanks. I don't mean to dissect the work, but this is the only way I can get quality feedback on how to approach it myself. People generally don't offer helpful critiques, but they will explain why the did this, instead of that. See? 
You explain the difference between thumbnails and layouts. But I asked about the difference between those and breakdowns. What people call "pencil breakdowns" is what I'm trying to learn about.
For example, are breakdowns done at the same size as tight pencils and finish inks? (I would think they would be, since, as I understand it, the next step is to lay a finish over them. But in these days of copy machines, I imagine they can be done at almost any size that the breakdown artist finds convenient and then enlarged for the next step.)
In any event, no problem. Thanks for the feedback, as far as it goes.
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You're over thinking the issue. Layouts/breakdowns/pencil breakdowns (which by the way is a term I've never come across) are all pretty much the same thing, it's just that different publishers give them different names. DC have always called them layouts, Marvel have always called them Breakdowns, other publishers may have different terms, which relates back to the contract issues.. there's no point invoicing DC for breakdowns when they only pay for layouts (actually it's not as bad as that, but it is a 'tickbox' arrangement, & you won't see a tickbox for 'breakdowns' on a DC contract.
There are basically four stages in the creation of a page, thumbnails, layouts, pencils & inks. Sometimes the lines between these get a little blurred, this usually happens when everyone is behind the eightball at deadline time, when things are running smoothly the first three stages are all done by the penciller anyway.
If you are ever asked to create breakdowns/layouts, the best thing to do is to talk to the next guy down the production line (be he the 'finisher' or the 'inker') and decide between the two of you what you have the time to do & what he expects to see from you, all viewed through the lense of how much you are getting paid by the publisher for your contribution.
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ha! This makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
Yes. I too had never heard the term "pencil breakdown" until recently. I was familiar with page breakdown (PBD), which has to do with outlining the story to fit so many panels per page to fill the required number of pages for publication. But "pencil breakdowns" is a term I picked up from Bob McLeod (Marvel), who explained the second meaning as an intermediary step between rough/layout and finish pencils. He called it a loose layout in line (no rendering or blacks) that gives the finisher room for interpretation.
I e-mailed Bob for clarification after reading his article on the subject in the now defunct magazine he edited, "Rough Stuff" and he sticks by this use of the term as it is used at Marvel.
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