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Tae-Rai — Homophobe
Published: 2013-08-20 07:32:43 +0000 UTC; Views: 3282; Favourites: 179; Downloads: 4
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You cannot use the bible as an excuse for being a homophobe if you're not actually a Christian. If you're not, why do you care what the bible says? Just admit it, you find them disgusting and are a sorry excuse for a human being.Template: `AssClownFish
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Comments: 306
Cool.
Which family of Protestantism is it (Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, etc)?
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^^
I'm not sure, I just know im protestant x'D
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Is Protestantism a strict form of Christianity, or is it more lenient?
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I think it as lenient, it all depends on opinions. It's pretty much follow the ten commandments, and love god c:
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That's what I thought. 
So what are your views on homosexuality?
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I personally think that homosexuality isn't right, but that does not change my opinion on a homosexual person; I have many homosexual friends!
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That's good. I admire that attitude.
May I ask, on what grounds do you feel it isn't right? Is it purely for religious reasons?
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yeah ^^
i think so, but i guess in my area its extremely abnormal as well, and also because i think when two men get married and have their own baby through another woman it's unfair against the woman, giving up her own baby, and that's also unnatural, as a marriage states to be between one man and one woman, because you need one of both to reproduce. but that's my opinion, others can think what they want ^^
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In the end, I place way more importance upon actions than words, and so I have much less problem with the Christians you're describing. But I still have a problem with the very notion that an unrepentant, actively homosexual person should burn for such an asinine reason. Even if they aren't in-your-face about it.
From my perspective, endorsing the teaching the 'eternal torment for actively and unrepentant gay people=justice' is homophobic, even if they don't actively try to diminish freedoms of gay individuals.
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Jesus loves you and He has a better way for your life.
youtube.com/watch?v=uQGA-n4JyO…
youtube.com/watch?v=529bKzeb8G…
youtube.com/watch?v=lH6-2-Jh9r…
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Proselytizing doesn't work. Besides, I'm not interested in a being whose love comes with petty demands and subservience.
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Yeah, I see what you mean. The actual notion that somebody would be punished for being gay is homophobic in itself. But that doesn't mean that the people who believe in this are necessarily homophobic. You're only homophobic if you believe that gay people deserve to be punished for what they do. If you believe that they will be punished, but don't deserve to be, then you're not really homophobic. Do you agree with this?
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I've yet to see a Christian who would think that someone being punished by God is undeserving of that punishment. That would mean believing God is in the wrong.
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I still think many Christians, in their heart of hearts, don't consider it fair that gay people would go to Hell. Probably the kind who try and "save" gay people from punishment. I doubt they would do that if they actually wanted gay people to go to Hell. But whether they would admit that to themselves is another question.
From what little I know about Christianity, their God loves people as a father loves his children. So to any Christians reading, there's something I'd like to ask. If you were God, would you send your own child to Hell for disobeying you?
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Only God is God and He has created an order. Jesus loves you and He has a better way for your life.
youtube.com/watch?v=uQGA-n4JyO…
youtube.com/watch?v=529bKzeb8G…
youtube.com/watch?v=lH6-2-Jh9r…
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As an answer to your question:
I haven't been a Christian for but half of my life, and I am still learning about it. From what I know Hell is described as a second death Revelations 21:8 and the wages of sin is death Romans 6:23. So to go to Hell you need only sin, i.e. disobey God. According to Romans 3:23 everyone has sinned and thus everyone has been put on the track towards Hell. This means that, yes, God would send all of us to Hell.
The whole premise of being a Christian however is that God himself as Jesus went to Hell for us so that we wouldn't have to, taking the deserved punishment in our place. Because He is a just God, someone has to take the burden of the punishment which is why it isn't just written off as a pardon.
All in all I think it would be more fair to say that God loves his creation as a father would his children and that he loves his children so absolutely that he would willingly let himself take punishment that he knows full and well his children deserve.
As for this issue of homosexuality as a whole, it's grouped with adultery which is a no going by the ten commandments. Any one going against those is going to Hell, gay or not.
I hope this helped
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Thanks for answering.
Firstly, what is meant by the term "second death"? Does that mean the cessation of existence?
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I think they try and differentiate between what they want and what they deserve. A parent, for example, may say they don't want to ground a disobedient child, but they will because it's the right thing to do. They might say the same of gays, but by objection is that homosexuality is not deserving of fiery torment, whether they want it or not.
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Exactly, and that's what I don't understand. Why would a loving parent even think their child should deserve to suffer for that?
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Many Christians will do whatever they can to try and pass off something which is obviously not loving as loving.
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Just becausea person doesn't think homosexualy is good doesn't mean that they hate homosexuals. The Bible is actually quite clear on that.
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You are deserving of fiery death and eternal torture if you don't stop doing this thing which doesn't at all harm me. But I love you.
Not very convincing is it? That's how I feel the 'love the sinner, hate the sin' viewpoint falls flat on its face.
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No. Depending on their situation, a person might not be able to help feeling homosexual desires. Being tempted is not a sin. Jesus was tempted. Where the Bible says they go wrong is when they act upon those desires. That's the difference between a homosexual and homosexuality. There are homosexual Christians. Whether or not they practice homosexuality is another story.
Achenaton has said it perfectly in an above comment.
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Replied to that comment as well, just to clarify:
comments.deviantart.com/1/3945…
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So you're a "straightaphobe"?
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The idea that no one can have an opinion.
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I am under no illusions that people will have opinions. That doesn't mean I won't have things to say about those opinions.
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I'm mature enough not to force a homosexual to act like a Christian. Are you mature enough not to force a Christian homosexual to "come out"?
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I'm mature enough to not falsely equivocate 'voicing objection' with 'force.' Force is when Christians vote against gay rights all the way up until it's overturned as unconstitutional. Force is all the physical and psychological abuse gays get from predominantly Christian families. Force is parents sending gay teens to sexual reeducation camps, which have proven to be unharmed up and don't work.
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When your "voiced objection" pushes and/or bullies a person to do something he is uncomfortable with, it is indeed force. Force is the punishment of individuals who voice their beliefs against the mainstream. Force is the media's bashing of Christians of their beliefs. Force is the world's hate of religious groups that don't follow the mainstream. Force is gays voting to abolish traditional marriage as unconstitutional; when in fact gay marriage was never “upturned” to be made legal (it was illegal originally). Force is threatening extreme punishment on any institution that doesn't approve of homosexuality, religion beside the point. Force is voting to require schools to include homosexuality in sex education. Force is expelling officers from the military when they prefer not to perform a homosexual marriage. Force is voting to require schools to promote homosexuality and other sexual behaviors. Force is punishing the heterosexual victim of a homosexual assault in the military. Force is gays vandalizing buildings that belong to churches or other religious organizations, or simply organizations with leaders that don't approve of homosexuality. Force is silencing those who disapprove of homosexuality as a lifestyle.
My point remains the same: Just because someone disagrees with another's personal lifestyle does not mean that they hate that person or are afraid of them. For instance, I believe it's wrong to eat meat that comes from factory farms, gestation crates, etc., but most of my good friends eat meat from such places. People claim that all Christians and Muslims must condemn all homosexuals when in truth, a true loving Christian will want to help them, not condemn them. To them, condemning is God’s place, not theirs. It’s not their decision to make. They believe they are commanded to love. They sincerely believe that homosexuals who practice homosexuality are in sin, and as everyone sins, it doesn’t make them “worse people” or anything like that. Just because a person disagrees with another person’s actions does not mean that they hate that person.
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"When your "voiced objection" pushes and/or bullies a person to do something he is uncomfortable with, it is indeed force."
No, that definition doesn't fly. Just because I object doesn't mean I'm bullying. That kind of thin-skinned, over-defensiveness does not help anyone.
"Force is the punishment of individuals who voice their beliefs against the mainstream. Force is the media's bashing of Christians of their beliefs. Force is the world's hate of religious groups that don't follow the mainstream."
Persecution complexes from the largest represented group in the entire friggen world doesn't help anyone either.
"Force is gays voting to abolish traditional marriage as unconstitutional"
Christians do not control what marriage is. They can't tell a Satanist or a Wiccan or a homosexual they cannot get married. You do not need Christian input, priest, or church in order to get married. Married is a government, not religious document provided by the government with government anti-discrimination laws applying. Forbidding gays from getting married is unconstitutional, not the other way around.
"Force is gays vandalizing buildings that belong to churches or other religious organizations, or simply organizations with leaders that don't approve of homosexuality."
As opposed to all those Christians who do the same thing at gay rallys, who beat gay family members, who KILL gays annually?
"Just because someone disagrees with another's personal lifestyle does not mean that they hate that person or are afraid of them."
Disagreeing with someone is not the same as thinking they deserve death, firey torment, etc, etc. Christianity is impregnated with homophobia, and is homophobic by nature.
" People claim that all Christians and Muslims must condemn all homosexuals when in truth, a true loving Christian will want to help them, not condemn them. "
"Help them" meaning "change them without having any evidence that they need to change."
Blah blah blah, my point already stands from the first post. "I love you but it would be a-ok with me if you burned forever if you don't change" is bullshit.
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First off, you should learn about what you're ranting against before you tell Christians and Muslims what they can and can't do. Christians are not trying to change legislature and marraige; they are trying to prevent change. The only change is coming from liberals. Christians do not kill gays, homophobics do. To claim that all Christians are homophobic is hilarious, seeing as you are obviously not a Christian and therefore can't even know. Christians want to help homosexuals by encouraging them away from homosexuality. Many are ignorant and do it very badly, as we see in conversion camps. However, they are as entitled to their "voiced objections" as you are to yours.
Your odd belief that Christians are okay with their friends burning forever is unfounded and ridiculous. If they were okay with them burning forever, why would they be trying to "convert" homosexuals? If they wanted them to burn, wouldn't the easist thing to do be to let homosexuals continue what they're doing?
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"First off, you should learn about what you're ranting against before you tell Christians and Muslims what they can and can't do. Christians are not trying to change legislature and marraige; they are trying to prevent change."
I should say the same because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. When the Defense of Marriage Act was ratified into state and federal law, it ADDED the phrase 'one man and one woman' which did not exist anywhere in the language of the law prior. Christians CHANGED the law to EXCLUDE gay marriage.
"Christians do not kill gays, homophobics do."
No True Scottsman fallacy. Christians who kill gays because 'God hates fags' are still Christians regardless of your input.
"To claim that all Christians are homophobic is hilarious"
I claim that the bible and thus Christianity is inherently homophobic. Just like it's inherently scientifically inaccurate and inherently sexist.
"you are obviously not a Christian and therefore can't even know. "
You don't need to be a chef to know when a meal is rotten. And I'm fairly sure I've read and studied the bible in more completeness and over a longer period of time than you have.
"Christians want to help homosexuals by encouraging them away from homosexuality."
Which they have no evidence that 'helps.'
"However, they are as entitled to their "voiced objections" as you are to yours."
And we are entitled to shut them down, which we have in some cases when the physical and psychological abuse has become obvious and overt enough. I support shutting down facilities or taking children away from families who are abusive, even if they're Christians following biblical teachings. (re: children taken away from Christians like JWs who refuse blood transfusions or Christians like Amish who won't give their kids necessary medical assistance, or Christians who psychologically or physically damage their kids for being gay.)
"Your odd belief that Christians are okay with their friends burning forever is unfounded and ridiculous."
They're only 'okay' with them changing. If they don't change, then they 'deserve' to be burned forever, according to the bible. And that's shitty. And people who believe that are shitty.
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Gay marraige did not exist before the Defense of Marriage Act was ratified, (and it was ratified by the nation, I might add, not Christians). So if you want to claim that someone excluded gay marriage, it was everyone, not just "religious fags." Since then opinions have changed, and Muslims and Christians are fighting against the change. Gays are now changing the laws to include gay marriage.
Again, I say the same: Christians do not kill gays. I know many homosexuals who are Christians. So stating that Christianity = homophobia is a double negative. What? So the homosexuals are killing themselves?
Being a chef and being a Christian are two very different things. Making them allegorical does not make them relevant. I’d also like to point out that you don’t know how old I am so you can’t make that assumption.
Does it help to pull someone away from “eternal torment”? That’s what Christians believe sin leads to, so yes, they are trying to help out the best of intentions. Islam states that homosexuals (whether or not they actually practice homosexuality) should be executed and not given a chance.
If you are entitled to shut down Christians and Muslims, then they are entitled to shut you down.
Christians don’t want their friends to “burn forever,” which is why they try to encourage them away from homosexuality. To them, homosexuality is a sin like any other, and to them, sin leads to condemnation. If they truly love a homosexual, they will try to discourage them from practicing homosexuality. You’re free to disagree, but you can’t change their beliefs.
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"Gay marraige did not exist before the Defense of Marriage Act "
Yes it did. Hence why the bill was made, because there was nothing against it prior to. Many people had marriages which were then nullified by the application of DOMA.
It was proposed by Christian lobbyists, made by Christian politicians and voted in by a Christian majority. It's a Christian bill enacted by Christians.
Why are you putting something I've never once said into quotes?
"Gays are now changing the laws to include gay marriage."
The only thing gays and straight allies are doing is overturning DOMA. It is literally the only thing standing in the way of gay marriage, and was ADDED to the law by Christians.
"I know many homosexualswho are Christians."
And I know many ethnic minorities who are racist, and gender minorities who are sexist. Many black slaves didn't want slavery abolished because they were afraid and didn't know any better. That doesn't change that slavery is wrong.
That's not what double negative means.
Yes, lots of gays have killed themselves for the shitty things said by the bible and Christians.
"Being a chef and being a Christian are two very different things. Making them allegorical does not make them relevant. "
Clearly don't know what a metaphor is.
"I’d also like to point out that you don’t know how old I am so you can’t make that assumption."
Safe assumption you're a teen or tween, and that you've never read the bible in its entirety let alone multiple translations and cross references. I make that assumption educated by this websites demographics and statistics on how uneducated Christians are about their own holy book.
"Does it help to pull someone away from “eternal torment”? "
The eternal torment is fictional, that they think it's real and just is the problem. Or the god is a monster and pulling towards it wouldn't be helpful anyway.
Nope they're not. Religion doesn't belong in politics and anyone who would abuse their child for their religion has no protection in law.
I can't change their beliefs. But I can call them out on their homophobia.
I'm going out to dinner with my husband. So I'm officially done with this conversation. Have the last word if you'd like, but I won't read it or reply. It'll just be x'ed out of my inbox.
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So you're basically saying that it's morally right for Christians to allow their friends to "burn forever" in an eternal torment that they believe is very real? Well, that explains a lot.
Okay, have fun!
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Acting upon those desires still harms nobody, but suppressing them for no good reason does, so it doesn't really change what I said before.
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Besides, whether or not "people are hurt" has nothing to do with "homophobia" and is in fact a red herring.
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Homophobia is an irrational aversion to homosexuality. Wishing to suppress something that doesn't hurt you, but you hate anyway is irrational.
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So you're a Christianaphobe?
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It makes perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.
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No, you're just not making good arguments.
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No, hating a people group because of their religious beliefs does indeed make you a Christianaphobe. You want Christians to suppress beliefs that don't hurt them, but you hate anyway which is irrational.
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First of all, I dislike Christianity, not Christians (love the person hate the religion, right?). I think the bible contains mostly piss poor moral lessons and should be left in the bronze age from whence it came.
I also think Christianity doesn't belong in legislature. Just like Sharia Law doesn't belong in legislature. Having theocratic law can and does hurt people, and is why we have separation of church and state. I have, however, never told Christians they shouldn't practice Christianity. Nor have I ever tried to suppress their practice, except in legislature. I have told them what I think about their beliefs, which I am entitled to do as much as they are.
Second of all, suppressing homosexual behavior in homosexuals can and does hurt them. As evidenced by conversion camps which are now mostly shut down because they HURT PEOPLE.
So try again, this time without strawmen.
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It's kind of hilarious that you call my argument a straw man when it's actually the same argument you have been presenting, just turned to a different light.
Your opinion of Christianity is your business, not mine, but when you force your beliefs on others by telling Christians and Muslims not to vote and to stay out of legislature, that is not only offensive to most, but it is also unconstitutional. The entire voting system was made so that people could vote for what they want. You vote for what you want, they'll vote for what they want.
Conversion camps are harmful as they can be very traumatic. However, I am not talking about conversion camps. I’m talking about homosexuals who of their own desire would rather not be homosexual. If a person chooses to suppress his desires, that’s his decision, not yours. You have no more right to cause him to “come out” than someone does of bullying a homosexual who practices homosexuality.
Hey, just wondering, but if you dislike Christianity so much, what do you think of Islam? According to Islam, homosexuals must be executed, not converted.
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No, actually, your argument is a false equivalence fallacy, which is why it's strawmanning.
The constitution PROHIBITS religious legislation. Gay marriage bans are unconstitutional for the same reason bans on interracial marriage is unconstitutional. It doesn't matter if that's what the religious entities of the time want (and that's exactly what they tried to vote in following segregation). I highly encourage you to research more about your own government, because clearly you don't really understand how it works. Nobody can just 'vote in what they want to.' You're describing a direct democracy (aka anarchy), we are a constitutional republic, and there are checks against abuse of power by the majority against minorities. If we allowed people to just 'vote for whatever they wanted,' we would have never overturned race or gender based discriminatory laws as we did.
So how exactly am I 'causing him to come out'? By telling him that he has no good reason to repress it? By questioning the foundations of the purely cultural stigmata? Again, that's not force. And if you think it is, then you need a thicker skin.
"Hey, just wondering, but if you dislike Christianity so much, what do you think of Islam? According to Islam, homosexuals must be executed, not converted."
I don't like Islam either. But I don't excuse Christianity for Islam's actions. Like: "Hey there's a serious problem with this." "Oh yeah?! Well there's starving kids in Africa!" Islam and the climate of the middle East encouraging extremism doesn't make Christians suddenly in the right.
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