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TriteBristle — Heartstrings ch2/p21 - An hour later
Published: 2012-10-23 21:54:03 +0000 UTC; Views: 90876; Favourites: 885; Downloads: 568
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There, they ended up in bed. Happy?What? You wanted a kiss? This early? Nah. >:3
*Unlocked achievement: Lip-block!*
Don't worry, we'll get to that part sooner or later. Surely I won't keep it till the very end, will I? >:3
Nope, I hate it when a love story ends with the protagonists getting together, since the whole adventure just starts then!
So knowing my imagination, we might get to see them nursing their grandchildren.
Still, Lyra seems to be a bit embarrassed, I wonder why. :3
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Comments: 418
Lyra made Bonbon blush so many times, its time Bonbon gets a victory
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I must point out: In the third panel, you wrote down "coach" instead of "couch"
I can also see where this is going:
First night: last panel.
Second night: facing each other.
Third night: Inching closer to each other.
Fourth night: Ever closer.
Fifth night: Closer still.
Sixth night: In each other's arms, smiling.
Right?
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Fix'd, thanks.
As for what does the future hold: ...nope, I won't spoil it. But I may or may not lay out small hints as usual. >:3
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I look forward to seeing what happens next.
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love is like a fine wine,it sould be sipped slowly,not gulped...
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*Looks @last panel * well, THAT escalated quickly
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Heh, true. Happily Ever After's have their own charm, but this plot has enough potential to break out of the melodrama that otherwise suits FIM. Go Trite go!!
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Isn't it a little dangerous for Lyra to jump into a bed with a known Fillyfoller
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Most of the ponies are bisexual in this universe, so same-sex relationships are fairly common. :3
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I actually haven't found anything to confirm that in canon, only lots of fanart speculation. If anything the series seem to promote the traditional family. The cakes, the royal weeding, Twilights parents, Pinkie Pies Parets, and not even once seen anypony living an "alternative lifestyle" if you will.
Now the show certainly pairs Lyra and Bon Bon, but that could be as just friends, we haven't seen anything beyond them hanging out together and wearing each others saddlebags.
I found it a little curious that Lyra was a bridesmade along with Moondanser and Colgate while Bon Bon wasn't even at the weeding.
Now don't give me wrong I like the Lyra Bon Bon shipping (tecnically I like the changeling Bon Bon best) but this is supposed to be their first meeting right
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And you haven't found anything to deny it either. Also, I never stated that this universe is the same as the canon one, in fact, I wrote in my first tumblr post that it is an alternative pony universe, even though I try to keep it relatively compatible with the canon one.
"Traditional family" changed a lot through the course of history, it's just that people can only see back a few decade into the past. (E.g. it was perfectly normal and traditional to sell your daughters thousands of years ago. Which isn't considered a nice thing at all these days luckily.) And it will change a bit through the decades to come. The only thing that's permanent in the world is changing itself, after all.
Quite frankly, I dislike the term "alternative lifestyle". If we look at it carefully, NOBODY has the exact same lifestyle, our habits tend to differ at least a little bit. >:3 So I honestly doubt anyone has the same lifestyle as me, thus I'm living an alternative one. Also, basing a lifestyle on who you have sex with doesn't sound like the right way to go about, in my opinion. :3
"Now the show certainly pairs Lyra and Bon Bon, but that could be as just friends, we haven't seen anything beyond them hanging out together and wearing each others saddlebags."
Because they were originally meant to be, you know... mostly nameless filler background ponies?
"I found it a little curious that Lyra was a bridesmade along with Moondanser and Colgate while Bon Bon wasn't even at the weeding."
That was Twinkleshine, not Moondancer. And again, background filler ponies without much purpose, the attention of the creators doesn't usually expand outside the circle of the main characters. Which isn't a bad thing of course in itself, as long as they stay consistent with themselves.
"but this is supposed to be their first meeting right"
Hence why they are sleeping pretty far from each other, which is easy to do in a huge bed. :3 And that's also the main reason for Lyra's embarrassment.
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Fathers didn't exactly "sell" their daughters in the old days. Rather they arranged for them to be married to the most prospective man they could fine, and their ability to pay a good bridal fee helped to determine how protective a man they could find.
Anyway yes, times do change, but change are rarely if ever a good thing, part of what makes Equestria such a nice utopian society is that they can go literally thousands of years without change, something that can only be possibly with an immortal ruler.
Also I never claimed that people are identical, but there is some solids that we have to count on. For instance one man, one woman united in sacred matrimony.
We are born in a family, we grow up in a family, and when we reach adulthood we find our bride (if we are a man) or our groom (if we are a woman) and we start the cycle anew.
That is how man are supposed to live, that is our purpose, and everyone not living like that lives an "alternative lifestile".
Being single is not okay, I know because I am single. We have reached an age where we are starting to feel and show pride of lots of things, things that we should not be proud of. Any deficiency are to be shunned.
I am myself flawed, I have a mental handicap a handicap that some are starting to take pride in. They do not understand, and what is worse, they do not understand that they do not understand. I have to work trice as hard to get the same as everyone else, that is not something to take pride in, in the same way as a blind man should not take pride in being blind.
He can take pride in his accomplishments, but not in his deficiencies. This goes for all deficiencies. You can take pride in overcoming them, but not in having them.
And sex, something I only have an theoretical understanding on, is sacred. It is the most intimate thing you can do to a person, and it is something you should only do to a person that you want to spend your life with.
I don't advocate marriage before sex, but I advocate love before sex. You should never progress a physical relationship to this point before you can honestly say that you love them, and that you want to spend your life with them. Circumstances may change and noone can know the future but your feelings in the present must be sincere.
You know I am honestly afraid of western civilization as a whole, I am afraid that it will not survive, because it has become too corrupt.
When it is no longer okay to make fun of the obese, the blind and the crippled, we as a society starts to believe that these things don't matter, that they are equally valid, that everything is as good as everything else. That there is no better way to live, no better way to act.
There needs to be a right, there needs to be a wrong, because if there isn't, we are truly lost.
Family is sacred because it is beyond the nation, beyond the tribe, it is the most intimate social bond there is.
These bonds are non-voluntary in nature, because only a bond that is non-voluntary is absolute, and only a bond that is absolute, have meaning that is absolute, to relativise it, is to destroy it, and thereby ourself, because we are nothing in our selves, only in our relations.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?
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I understand what you are saying. Let me voice in my opinion as well.
You believe in a bipolar world, where everything is either right or wrong. Which is inherently flawed. The world is not black and white; it's more like a large scale of different hues of gray. What is moral and right in one culture can be easily immoral and shunned in another one. You can go and try finding something that's immoral in all civilizations, I doubt you succeed. One popular one is that killing babies should be immoral by any human viewpoints, right? Wrong, in ancient Sparta weak looking newborns were disposed of on the mountain Taygetos. Was it moral in the viewpoints of the Spartans? Yes, because this way the stronger kids survive for sure. (Though I think the mother's opinion differed usually when it came to their children, but their opinion wasn't worth much in that culture.) The cause for you feeling something moral or immoral is partly because of your own conscience (which is a result of the chemical reactions in your brain, again), and direct or indirect social pressure, which changes with the culture you live in. If you'd live in a different country with different culture, chances are your morals wouldn't be the same. You might not view singleness as a shameful thing.
In my opinion, you shouldn't go and get a girlfriend just because traditions and peer pressure dictates that, but because you want yourself a significant other, someone to bond with, to fell in love with. (Mutually.) Otherwise, you are a prisoner, shackled by protocols made by people in the past, for circumstances that are long gone. But if it makes you happy, go for it. It’s your life after all; I just think it should be you who decides how to live it.
Traditions change over time a lot too. They are born, adapt then die out in the end. In my opinion, if a tradition causes harm in its current form then it should be either modified or even let it die. Not all traditions are good traditions. 2000 yeas ago it was a tradition to stone to death the bride if she wasn’t a virgin. One could argue that it was useful in its day (which doesn’t make it any less horrible imho), but can’t say that it would be useful today. Do you want that tradition nowadays? :3 I surely don’t.
You said that "change is rarely if ever a good thing", look at healthcare. It went through tremendous change since the prehistoric witch doctors, which is one good example that changes, if they go the right directions are very good. People used to live only for a few decades thousands of years ago. Nowadays that’s considered very young, the general life expectancy has gone way up from that.
Marriage is a social construct, presumably not older than a few thousand years. Humankind was around way longer. In some cultures, it is moral for a man to have multiple wives, or even concubines. Marriage, as you said used to be a contract to tie together families. In which the woman could be forced to marry a man she doesn't even love. That "tradition" is mostly gone in the western civilization luckily, I can't say I miss it. :3
In my viewpoint, it is not the marriage that is sacred, but the bond between the two people who mutually love and respect each other. Thus I view all relationships like that sacred, not the marriage itself. (Think a bit: if one of them goes ahead and cheats the other, there isn’t much that keeps him/her for doing so (apart from conscience, which is unfortunately not as strong in some people as it should be). In this regard there isn’t much difference between dating relationships and marriages. If one of them wants to cheat, they will cheat. If they stop loving each other, they get separated. The only difference is that it’s harder to terminate a marriage. Which is mainly because it’s also a legal contract (for tax benefits, etc). See why I value love and respect more?)
I can easily see the definition of marriage slowly change from "one man and one woman" to "two consenting adults" (above the legal age). What would change in a family structure, honestly? If you objectively look at it, a few decades ago the family was usually two parents, one working to support the family with wealth, and the other managing the household. Look around nowadays! You can see (beside the "traditional", decades old ones) lots of households where both parents are working. You can see ones where the woman is working while the man is managing, raising the kids, etc. You can see only one parent families, with the parent trying to work and support the child(ren). Gender roles are slowly changing, becoming more flexible to the circumstances. Is it really so hard to imagine both parents having the same sex?
As for sex as an activity, it is only a mysterious thing for those who haven't done it yet. I did, and I can safely say that it's massively overrated imho. I mean, people freak out about it way too much than they should, it's just a standard biological process, mainly for reproduction and recreational activities. As long as it’s done in private, with all participants consenting and above the legal age, (plus protection!) I don’t think there’s any problem with it.
I think the most intimate thing you can do to a person is cuddling, talking and sharing your innermost feelings. Sex is just following what your hormones dictate. Personally I prefer to differentiate between love and lust.
Cuddles for the win! :3
As for making fun of people, I think you should be able to do it, and others should be able to shun you as a response. Freedom of speech goes both ways. But making fun of someone and downright bullying them are two different things in my opinion. You can be civil about jokes, but bullying is basically torture. You can be easily the target of bullying, all you have to do is to stand out. Which is not a good reason to hate or shun anyone.
I don’t think that western civilization became corrupter (oh well, not talking about politics), it's just your ideas and traditions are reluctant to change. But they most likely will. Surviving traditions change with society. :3
I understand where you are coming from, and I respect you and your right to voice your opinion. What you believe and don’t believe is up to you. Even if I don’t agree on it.
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I really don’t get what you mean by “I understand where your coming from” I don’t think you do, I don’t think you can, and what’s more, you don’t have to to understand my point, only to go against me ad hominem to avoid my points.
Second. The black-white vs. grey anology is flawed in many ways ,but what is primary in your beginning argument is an adherence to moral relativism. That what is right is determined by who you are and where you are from. The problem is that moral relativism is that it leads to moral subjectivism which leads to moral nihilism.
If you cannot compare one cultures customs to another and upholding one set of practices as objectively better then others then you cannot say that any behavior in any context is better then an other.
I am a moral realist. I hold that there is an objective good, that exist independent of humans and are not defined by our whims
1) I like killing babies
2) Killing babies makes me happy
3) Therefore killing babies is good.
Does that sound like a sound moral reasoning to you?
I do not know if you are familiar with the works of Immanuel Kant, he developed at set of universal moral rules. Categorical imperatives that is valid in all cultures at all times, both humans and aliens, all that is demanded is that they are rational agents that are able to understand the imperatives.
1) Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction.
2) Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never merely as a means to an end, but always at the same time as an end.
I am not familiar enough with Spata to be able to confirm or deny your anecdote (and anecdotal evidence is the best kind of evidence). But I know an anecdote of my own. This was about a person studying ethics in edo age Japan. He was enthralled by the practice that a samurai was allowed in order to “sharpen his blade and his skill” to butcher a village. He used that as a proof for ethical relativism that this was okay to do in Japan (at the time). He later found out that it was something that happened, not because it was okay in Japanese culture (at the time) for it to happen, but because the samurai code had been corrupted, and was considered very much a crime, just a crime you couldn’t do very much about. And furthermore, that it was due to this general corruption that the shogunate and all it stood for fell, because people couldn’t stand the injustice anymore.
This was an anecdote, it proves nothing, and I used it only as a counter balance to yours. The point being that the moment we start moving onto the relativistic trail we lose sight of good and right altogether, and have nothing to stand on but anecdotes.
Some things are more or less right then others, and all absolute claims that something is simply good or simply bad without considering the context is wrong.
That doesn’t mean that universal rules are wrong.
If we claim that X is evil, that it is evil to X and X can never be justified, then we make X an absolute, but that makes everything else relative too and lesser then X.
If we for instance set X to kill, so the sentence is, “it is evil to kill and killing can never be justified, then we force the position that it can never be justified in killing a madman that has killed dozens and will kill dozens more, unless he is stopped, and he is a madman so he cannot be reasoned with, he killed the last 5 men that tried.
This doesn’t work as you see, these rules never works, that is why I made the following universal rule to forbid absolute rules.
“No end can justify any means, but any mean is justified by the right end.”
Now I hope you are able to see what I mean with moral realism vs. moral relativism and why we get nowhere with the later.
Now to what I mean about change. No human or animal like chance. Now as humans are a generalist species we are better at surviving it and adapting then a specialist, but that doesn’t mean we like it. There is a reason why the mythos of “the golden age” are next to always in the past. The Golden age is something to restore, something to look back at with envy.
This present age is very imperfect and filled with many unresolved issues from the past. I don’t think much is needed to disturb the present illusion of peace. A small cosmic natural disaster, like a powerful sunstorm, is all it will take I believe to throw the world into chaos.
Social construct vs. human nature.
Difficult question again. Know that harems have always been an unequal practice for the rich, and free sex a terrible disadvantage for women.
Matrimony is a necessity, a man needs a wife and a wife needs a man and they needs to be faithful to each other because if a man shares the spoil of his hunt with another woman her children will starve and if a woman shares her bed with another man, he will feed children that are not his own. Matrimony is a partnership and the man and women complement each other and it have excited long before the modern humans walked out of a cave in Africa 46’000 years ago, and yes, as as species we are not older then that.
Mattrimony doesn’t work if the partners aren’t complementary, that is 1 man, 1 woman. Now you can have several alternative lifestyles, but they are rarely able to result in children and never in harmony. And as children are our seeds to the future, not having children are the worst things we can do to ourselves.
And to what you said about consenting adult, please tell me you are not one of the person that believe that as long as they love each other everything is okay, even if the man and the women in question are brother and sister. In my country that behavior is punishable with up to six years in prison, because incest is incest whether it is consenting or not. Incest between two consenting adult is especially bad, then two and not just one person have committed a crime.
There is nothing to understand here, “love” is not absolute, and cannot justify anything. We call it “blodskam” blood shame”
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"1) I like killing babies
2) Killing babies makes me happy
3) Therefore killing babies is good.
Does that sound like a sound moral reasoning to you?"
The problem with your argument is generalization. Using induction to get a general fact (e.g. thinking that if something is good for me it must be good for everyone) is inherently flawed. If you put "for me" at the end of the 3rd sentence, the sentences become logically sound. It is good for that person, but not good for the babies. And maybe for the human race.
Sparta is not just an anecdote. I merely recited what I learned in history class ages ago. But since I doubt I'll get any trustworthy, citable sources right now, I'll simply drop that example.
"There is a reason why the mythos of “the golden age” are next to always in the past. The Golden age is something to restore, something to look back at with envy."
When I look back, I see suffering. Lots of suffering. Thus I work to create a future that's better than the past, better than the "golden age". At least one bit better. Because it's as sure as hay I don't want to go back there.
As for matrimony:
- You are generalizing, as if every man would be the same, and every woman would be the same. Which is evidently false.
- We are not living in caves anymore.
- The planet is full of people, so it's not necessary for all of us to reproduce anymore.
- Women can also "get food" now, so matrimony doesn't necessarily require mixed sex couples.
- There are orphanages with orphans in it. Same sex couples can just adopt one. Then they have a child thus avoiding "one of the worst things they can do to themselves". Not to mention that kids are usually better off with potentially loving parents.
As for incest: I simply don't care about it. If it's still two consenting adults, then I neither condemn or condone it. Because it's generally none of my business what other people do in their bedroom.
I honestly doubt that I have the specific philosophical knowledge, neither the energy that would be necessary to continue this debate (not to mention debating skills...), I spent too much time on it already instead of working on the comic. Which I assume would be more fun for you to read instead of my arguments. :3
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I find your last point to be the most sound, lets drop this discussion
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gah! this is so good and funny to boot!
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Haha, nice update! I like how you set up the story for this one.
Panel 3: I think you meant 'couch' not 'coach'
Panels 6-7-8: I like how you have the camera zoom-in as the argument heats up. It adds to that feeling of tension and makes a stronger break when it zooms back out for the final panel.
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I can't believe I actually wrote it right on the other panels. o.O
Thanks, fixed it.
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I see through your well crafted cleverness. You just want a excuse to throw out the old couch >: D
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That couch made them sleep together, I think it deserves some respect for that. :3
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Yea, But they still don't sleep together
And i think grandchildren is to far. I think after there children start school is a good place to stop. But hey that is just my opinion.
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Baby steps. Tonight, same bed. Tomorrow night, maybe they'll even stare at each other before falling asleep. >:3
It will end when I run out of ideas. I think I'll die before that happens. :3
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Error in panel 3:
Lyra:
That coach is surprisingly bad for lying on it.
-
That couch is surprisingly bad for lying on.
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Yeah, Lyra seems a bit embarassed, while Bon Bon, on the other hoof, seems to find the whole thing pretty normal, which is a little odd, considering all the time she blushed towards Lyra's compliments in the previous pages.
Still, this comic is getting better and better. Keep up the good work man
And then they bucked.
Me likey!
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Nah, I dont want a kiss THIS early
HOWEVER! I am absolutely sure BomBom planned this from the beggining! XD Who would not feel embarrased/awnkard?
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The uneasiness will pass soon. :3
Next on: pillow talk.
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seems parents feel more comfortable with kids of the same gennder sharing a bed....I shared a huge bed with my bro. OBVIOUSLY we were at either edge
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Personal space is serious business indeed. :3
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i think its cos if brother and sister share a bed theres a high ris of funny stuff
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Everyone should just roll with bunk beds instead. Those are awesome. :3
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I'm etting a bunkbed wih no botom bunk
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That happens speciall with guys. We are more like 'I would NEVER allow another guy to touch me.'
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true, last year when we were on holiday we discovered the pullout bed has folding legs and my brother wanted to push it away from his cos he said its wierd
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It would be very ankward if one orlled into the other while sleeping. XD
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