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UnicornReality — We wont go back
Published: 2006-12-09 20:43:31 +0000 UTC; Views: 4606; Favourites: 119; Downloads: 45
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Hello.
These are my views and my views alone. Yours may be different and I understand that.
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Comments: 331
"You keep saying that pregnancy and parenthood is always planned and treated well, but in reality, its not."
I NEVER said that. That logic is insane. However, it SHOULD be. And laws should protect the mother and baby FROM abuse. Your logic says aborting the baby is good because this dude was going to abuse the mother. How about we abort this abusive guy instead. THAT'S what the laws should support, but NEVER killing an innocent. EVER.
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How do we 'abort' the father? HOW? In vietnam, what he was doing was perfectly legal. Abortion is simply pity killing. Cases that require pity killing might require abortion. Do you WANT to kill the mother? AND the baby? Just because you don't like medical procedures to kill the baby doesn't mean its better to let them do it themselves, or send them to rape and child labor.
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No. You're killing the innocent, kill the criminal at least.
You change the laws to prosecute the person who committed the crime. The baby committed no crime.
Abortion is not simply pity killing. It is simply killing, and only killing. It is not a medical procedure, it is murder. There is absolutely no justification for it. You're changing the wrong laws, murder and abuse should NEVER be legal.
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So what do you think is the right choice?
1) We could leave abortion as it is and save the mother, although we kill the baby,
2) Try to arrest the father and let the mother and baby die.
Abortion IS killing, abortion is NOT 'right', but if you keep saying that its wrong and don't keep in mind of the family issues that are accually saved by it, millions more, including the baby, would die.
What millions don't realize is that you keep insulting our intelligence by repeating the same thing over and over. "Abortion is killing." Oh, like we DIDN'T know that! Do you think the mother WANTED to kill her baby? She knew it was killing! She knew she was taking her beloved child's life away! But unlike many who can only see that part of the situation, she did the smart choice and saved herself.
Oh, and don't say that 'it wasn't the smart choice; it was killing' so you would rather want two souls to die than one soul to be killed.
Do you think the goverment does not know about abuse like in her situation? They are oviously working on it! And even if all abuse in the world is solved, what about the 2 million women in the world that have a 85% chance of the baby and herself dying during childbirth? QUIT THINKING THAT BOTH HAVE TO DIE IF ONE MUST BE KILLED.
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1) First of all, there is virtually NO situation where a baby must be aborted in order for a mother to live during childbirth. If there is in your neck of the woods, then it's obvious your country needs to prioritze and upgrade medical facilities.
2.) Your logic is twisted. An abusive father is no father at all, deserves arrest. If your people are cruel and allow single mothers with children to die, then there is your problem, THAT is what needs to be fixed.
"Abortion IS killing, abortion is NOT 'right'"
Then we agree.
"so you would rather want two souls to die than one soul to be killed."
There is virtually no instance where two must die and abortion is a better option. If you believe that, you've been lied to. If it exists, it can be change. Fight to change THAT instead of fighting to keep abortion legal.
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So you want to fight all abuse in the world when abuse is just 68% of abortion cases? (when the mother would die)
I did not grow up in Vietnam, I was born in Taiwan and moved to america when I was 2. In my state, abortion is legal only when the mother has a life-thretening situation. My people are not "cruel".
In Vietnam, it's different. Abortion is legal for all cases, including financial problems, because women are the ones who get pregnant (duh) but women are OWNED by men in that country. Abuse is not against the law OR even looked down apon. (At least not in her case) It's fine that you want to change that, but while you do that, two people would have died.
"There is virtually no instance where two must die and abortion is a better option. If you believe that, you've been lied to."
Do I LOOK blind? Have YOU ever been in a situation like that? Or known someone close to you who has? Unless you have accually expirianced a life-and-death matter that is perfecly legal and accepted by law, do not say that I have been lied to by my mother and my close friend.
And you disagree with this situation? You think that it can't exist? No wonder my mom gets so angry nowadays. I am NOT blind to real situatuions like this (like you think I am) I know this happened, I know that the mother did not want herself and her baby to die. You keep ignoring what really happened to someone very close to me and instead of one, two would die. Later on, Millions.
"An abusive father is no father at all, deserves arrest. If your people are cruel and allow single mothers with children to die, then there is your problem"
The law that allows it is one problem, the acual killing and dying is another. While my mom works hard to solve the law, my friend had to save her life here. So you want only half of the problem to be solved, then.
Like i said, don't be blind and say that situations like this don't exist. Do you think you can think of a solution that would have saved her? After she spent three weeks crying for her baby? After my mom spent all-nighters with her on the phone?
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"Like i said, don't be blind and say that situations like this don't exist."
I'm not being blind, rather, you're not making sense to me. Near as I can tell, no situation like this exists. If it doesn't please explain it, and why you feel it can't be changed.
"So you want to fight all abuse in the world when abuse is just 68% of abortion cases? (when the mother would die) "
You want to let abusers go free?!?!?! Like that's all right?!?! You're just not making sense. Of COURSE I want all abusers locked away until that foolishness stops. There's never an excuse to physically (or mentally, for that matter) harm a pregnant woman.
"In Vietnam, it's different. Abortion is legal for all cases, including financial problems,"
Then that is murder, plain and simple. You think money is an excuse to kill?
"Unless you have accually expirianced a life-and-death matter that is perfecly legal and accepted by law, do not say that I have been lied to by my mother and my close friend."
Do not attempt to tell me what I can and cannot say. I'm enjoying my right to free speech. There is no excuse to murder. Period. You cannot justify it to me, at least so far you have been completely unable. Laws are made to be changed, people must get themselves educated and start making sense, then stand up for what is right. The sanctity of life.
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"Near as I can tell, no situation like this exists."
Well, what you're saying is that you're denying the fact that this has accually happened so I feel that it's not worth taking to you anymore. Go ahead and deny that abortion saved my friend.
"You want to let abusers go free?!?!?! Like that's all right?!?! You're just not making sense."
You know perfecly well that I never meant to let abusers go free. I am saying that if it wasn't for this killing, two people would have died. What you said has nothing to do with what I meant.
"Of COURSE I want all abusers locked away until that foolishness stops. There's never an excuse to physically (or mentally, for that matter) harm a pregnant woman. "
Totally agree. So that's why we should not stand aside and let her die!
"There is no excuse to murder" Even when it saves more lives than it kills?
1) You don't think this accually happened. You're denying why abortion was allowed in the first place, to save as many people as we can.
2) Once again, you repeat over and over that abortion is killing and horrible, and you DENY THAT A SITUATION LIKE THIS ACCUALLY HAPPENED. WHOA, THERE ARE MOTHERS THAT DIE UNLESS DRASTIC STEPS ARE TAKEN?? I DON'T TO BELIEVE THAT!
"I'm not being blind, "
And later,
"Near as I can tell, no situation like this exists"
You don't seem to understand that as far as abortion can be defined as horrible, (which I agree completely with) there are people who have been saved by it. That may seem very insignifigant and may not make sense to you, but it's true. If you deny this fact and let babies and mothers die, then go ahead and I'll do what you said; "people must get themselves educated and start making sense, then stand up for what is right. The sanctity of life."
The sanctity of life! How can you say that when all you can see is the baby and not both the mother and the baby?
Oh, and also, "Do not attempt to tell me what I can and cannot say. I'm enjoying my right to free speech." Well, I guess so am I.
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"How can you say that when all you can see is the baby and not both the mother and the baby?"
You keep repeating this, but there's no actual situation where this is a scenario where abortion is the solution. You need to make a better case, so I can understand where you are coming from. Currently you are making about zero sense with this.
"You know perfecly well that I never meant to let abusers go free. "
No, I don't know that. You pretty much stated (If I understand correctly, and it's possible I on't, as your arguments are becoming increasingly more difficult to make sense of) that abortion is a solution if a man is beating a pregnant wife. This will then "save" the mother. If I understand correctly, this is the most twisted logic I've ever heard. You're killing a baby to appease an abuser. Is that the case or am I completely misunderstanding you?
"You don't think this accually happened. You're denying why abortion was allowed in the first place, to save as many people as we can."
Abortion was not allowed for that purpose. Do a study on Eugenics, put two and two together and you'll see how various governments are manipulating people with propaganda and untruths. You've been misinformed for certain!
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"You keep repeating this, but there's no actual situation where this is a scenario where abortion is the solution."
I'll say it again; It was legal and to abuse women in the workhouses, like rape. Pregnant women would get abortions if they worked in the workhouses so they woudn't die of disease or rape. If she didn't get an abortion she would have been killed, her and the baby. Like you said; "You're killing a baby to appease an abuser" I am not saying so. I am saying that the abuser is sending her to disease and murder, which she would have died from. She killed the baby to save herself. You might see that as apeasing the abuser because she would have died by his hand unless the baby died.
If I'm getting harder to understand, that's my fault. I'm not the best writer, but this information is coming from both my mom, her friend and our lawyer (helper for this situation). If you are not understanding well it doesn't mean I didn't.
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"I am saying that the abuser is sending her to disease and murder, which she would have died from."
The answer is clear. Have the abuser arrested. If you cannot do that because of laws, change laws, change governments, whatever. Even if you must commit the abortion, then do that... but never think that committing the abortion is okay, of that it is saving life. It isn't. Killing one to save any number is still killing one. It is what it is and that will never change.
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Ok I just had a talk with my mom and this is what she said:
The mother of the aborted child did not think of abortion as a choice until she knew that her husband could not be arrested. By using Skype, she told us about the situation and for two months we tried as hard as we could to get her into america as a citizen so she could have the baby safely, without the threat of being sent to work labor. But to do so she had to be either divorced, misplaced, or transferred. (she was unemployed so the last one wasn't an option) by law she could not divorce her husband and she also could not move away from him. (she could not live anywhere without her husband) My mom tried to bring the husband to court but, of course, it was false charges and he went free THREE times.
We tried to see if we could manage to sell her to ANOTHER husband instead of work, but he refused. We tried to see if he could place her in adoption, but he was an abuser and did not want anything to do with children. He was a stubborn bastard.
The only protection she had against him was that she could choose when to have the abortion, since it was her baby as well. But she had to have the abortion, period.
After seven months, she finally had the dangerous operation. It's been almost two years since this happened, and she's ok now. Her husband is not harming her, but we wish he would be arrested for abuse.
As a family me and my mom supported her and her baby any way we could. My mom is think was pretty pro-life but she never mentioned once that the mother killed the baby, since this was a disrespect to her trouble and her terrifying experience. My friend has stated many times "I don't want to kill my baby" the three of us know that abortion is stopping a life from developing, no matter which way you look at it. The mother wanted to keep the baby alive so badly, she waited seven months which made the abortion dangerous. She loved her baby. But of course, we didn't want her to die.
"never think that committing the abortion is okay, of that it is saving life." All Three of us don't know WHAT to think. We did what we could, and we saved the mother.
I think we get offended when we see pro-lifers say 'abortion is killing and killing only' because we don't want the mothers to be killed either, just like the baby. When abortion is the bottom choice, and its the only legal choice, we'd have to consider it, even if it is horrible. If we could get rid of the things that make mothers sacrifice their babies for themselves, I'm certain that there would be less abortion. We do not consider ourselves pro-life or pro-choice. The mother for sure was neither. If she was pro-life she would have to face the fact that she killing the baby for herself. If she was pro-choice she would have to face the fact that millions look down on her pact for survival.
We did spend a lot of time to change the law for her and her baby to survive. But we couldn't change them. I suppose that was the main reason she got an abortion in the end. Because we couldn't change the facts that kill the mother and the baby.
Perhaps the only reason im sounding so pro-choice is because I want the world to know that babies and mothers both have a right to live, and I'm glad that the mother is here on earth right now. The fact that babies are killed in abortion does not change the fact that the mother is alive because of it. Whether abortion was right or wrong I think is not determined in this situation.
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"Whether abortion was right or wrong I think is not determined in this situation."
while I see the merit of your situation, I would just like to caution your thinking. Once a person start to think "it's okay to kill an innocent in this one situation" that tends to be a stepping point to jump to bigger and harsher killings. Currently abortion is out of control and is basically used as a form of contraception because people are just too lazy and selfish.
All I'm saying is before killing, pursue ALL other avenues first. Do you see what I'm saying?
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Yes, I see very well what you are saying. Of course we didn't think of abortion as an option without going through millions others first. We did pursue a lot of other choices.
I explained that we are very confused on whats ok and whats not ok. But we really didn't need to figure that out. We just needed her to live.
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I believe it's the woman's choice - if she doesn't want to go through with the pregnancy then it's up to her. I personally don't think of it as a child until it's out there screaming. But I don't think abortion should be used as a form of contraceptive either.
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Yeah, we'll never agree then.
If she doesn't want a pregnancy, that answer is simple. Don't get pregnant. The debate of abortion the becomes irrelevant. Also... it takes TWO to make a baby, not just a woman. Men should have rights, too. Think about it.
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That's awful. That is the same as saying "If you don't want to get rape...then don't get raped."
If we really want to reduce the need for abortion we should invest in things like sex education and contraceptive use. But even the best contraceptives have a 3% to 1% failure rate.
But to tell a woman that, "If you don't want to get pregnant then don't get pregnant," that seems to take any responsibility the man would have.
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I have thought about it many times. I have had this exact same conversation many times.
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So, you're opposed to men's rights?
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Well, that's relief. So then by agreeing to that, you'd just as likely make a stamp that says something along the lines of: fathers shouldn't have any legal or financial responsibility for any child because... after all, said child in question only belongs to the mother, as it's her 'choice' whether it lives or dies. You'd agree to that as well, I'd assume? Because I don't see a stamp like that in your gallery, but I figure you just haven't gotten around to it! LOL
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I don't have time for this. Go troll somewhere else.
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Er.. ok... but remember YOU did ask for everyone and anyone to 'bring it'. So this certainly doesn't qualify as trolling when you invite comments of this nature! (I'd consider changing that open ended invitation if I was you!) I'll leave you be. Take care and I seriously hope you'll consider keeping your mind open on this matter! Chow!
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It's ciao not chow. Just thought you'd like to know.
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Depends on the usage. If I was off to get a bite to eat, then I would be going to get some "chow". American slang and all that.
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My mind is very open. 
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ACK! LOL! I thought you didn't have time for this?
You can't have it both ways, you can be 'open minded' and then say "I will always support"... well, rather, you can 'say' that, it will just be a contradiction. When you saw "I will always" you are saying "I will never change my position". That isn't being open minded.
Me? I'll always look for alternatives to killing humans! 
I'd love to have you on THAT side.
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"I'll always look for alternatives to killing humans!"
I have said. They're not humans until they're out in the open air screaming.
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Well, that's your opinion, and you certainly are entitled to it, but it's an opinion that's easily proven wrong.
(I thought you didn't have time for this?)
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"Well, that's your opinion, and you certainly are entitled to it, but it's an opinion that's easily proven wrong."
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Not a chance.
You're not even close.
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Definitely we won't go back.
Everyone can take the choice he/she wants. We can't judge them for this, and we should not do it.
But every woman has the right to do an abortion at the hospital or in a clinic.
Since some countries voted for abortion as crime, is illegal. Women have to find other solution to terminate their pregnancy, and coat-hanger is one of them.
We won't go back. 21th century is here. How much more will take to the people to learn respect women' choice about abortion?
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You won't go back? Good, you won't have to. Simply don't put a coat-hanger up there.
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This is awesome! I'm Pro-Choice too. Say, are you in by the way?
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This is awesome! I'm Pro-Choice too. Say, are you in by the way?
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I am not no - I don't really tend to join groups.
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I see. Well it's still a good message you got there anyways.
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I. Fucking. Love. You.
Fav'd and I'm snagging this for my stamp collection. I give you huge props for this one, it's not exactly the prettiest mental image, and it's definately not always the most popular sentiment around.
Seriously, I love the coat hanger. It pisses me off to no end that women ever had to go through that, and I think that using that symbol shoves it right in people's faces just as to why we need legal abortion in this world so desperately.
You rule.
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I'm not going into detail on this one, but we won't go back.
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We wont indeed.
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At first I didn't understand the coat hanger...then after a few pondering moments of thought I realized what you were getting at...and if I'm right that's pretty gory
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It's horrifically gory.
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you are not evil or wicked. just wrong. i am saddened at your disrespect of woman and child. and hopefully we will not go back, but rather forward into a culture that respects the baby and the mother, not just a choice that seems to be okay at the time.
as a survivor of abortion, i have seen the hurt that it causes everyone involved. i hope that some day you will see it too.
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