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XDiaLinnX — Misguided Parenting is the real problem.
Published: 2013-11-03 18:51:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 8363; Favourites: 311; Downloads: 0
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All this talk about forcing children to believe in gods/God, it's a tragic thing, I agree. I feel horrible when I hear people are being forced to say what they don't believe in, just like many of you who had overzealous families that made you go to church without your consent. And I will say it's wrong to force children to engage in what they don't understand.But guys, there is nothing harmful about teaching religion to children.
"But teaching children religion slows human progress! In order to kill religion we must stop teaching it to kids!"
It does not slow so-called "progress". People who actually believe this, you have to realize that by killing off a religion, you or other people just end up creating and teaching ANOTHER one. Religion has been with us since the ANCIENT times, and no matter how much you try to be rid of it, it will always be replaced by some other dogmatic belief system, with or without gods. See also fav.me/d4xgjt3
"But children do not need to learn from such a bloody and gorey book such as the Bible!"
I agree, many children are not ready to experience the deep contexts of the Bible, but it doesn't harm the child to give the a rated G version that they can enjoy and understand:
No blood and gore in this little beauty. Antitheists and fundemental Christians, did you really expect a kid to be able to comprehend the adult version?
"But children do not need to be brainwashed by Christian camps!"
What about atheist children camps that have been around since 1996? They do just as much preaching about how God doesn't exist, it's liable to be called "brain-washing" as well when you put them both into that sort of context. The truth is, kids want to learn and be around other kids, and camps are the perfect opportunity for that. I strongly oppose camps that act more like boot-camps in general, so I can understand the concern inside children camps very much! Parents must choose wisely and know exactly what their children are being taught about when it comes to that sort of thing, so children can avoid being put into compromising situations.
" But children are taught that being an atheist is bad! They are trapped into thinking something they may not actually believe in! "
And I don't think it's right for that to happen. Alot of that behavior does not come from the actual message of Christianity, but from the parents themselves, because of THEIR faith. If a parent is THAT intimidated by someone who lacks the faith, their own faith is liable to be weaker than they wanted, and that is a problem they need to deal with themselves instead of bringing their children into it. Having doubt is not a bad thing, it's something everyone experiences at some point, and children should/are being taught to explore their beliefs. See also fav.me/d50o69g
I could go on and on about it, but here is where I think the real issue is. Misguided parenting.
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Comments: 318
It really isn't. Most parents tell their kids "if you're a bad person you could go to hell" but I have never heard of a child being told "if you don't believe in this God you're going to hell".
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No parents say that type of shit to their kids all the time. My grandparents said it to me. Religion fucks peoples minds up and turns them into mindless zombies.
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I've never met anyone who was told they where going to hell if they didn't believe. All the Christian/Catholic (I don't know religious people of other religions, there are mostly Catholics/Christians and Athiests where I live) are super nice, and don't complain about their religion. No one turns into a "zombie"- in fact I think the only zombie here is y o u .
Just because your grandparents said it to you doesn't mean it happens to every kid. I'm sorry they told you that shit and scared you, but religion has saved quite a few people, including myself and my dad. Don't be a close-minded bigot just because of something that happened to you in the past.
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Religion doesn't save people. It gives them false hope. Like I said it turns you into a sheep that just follows the herd without ever questioning it. The bible literally states that it doesn't give a shit how bad of a person you are. Just as long as you accept Jesus in your heart you'll be saved. That means someone like Hitler will be in heaven and someone like Bruce Lee will be in hell. Does that sound fair to you? Of course I'm going to be a bigot to something that's bigoted in the first place. I'm pretty sure you're a bigot to the Nazis.
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You can't say religion hasn't saved people when you don't fucking know that. You don't know every religious person in the world. For example, my dad was raised in a religious family but he didn't really give a fuck about religion. His dad kicked him out at an early age so my dad never practiced religion, and he was pretty fucked up. He hung out with people who run over dogs for the fun of it, he got in bar fights, he hitch-hiked, he woke up left for dead under a tractor, he got in cars he didn't know could get out of alive and he didn't give too many fucks. He was a trucker for awhile, and he moved to a different state to work UHaul. He met my mom because his sister knew my mom and slowly but surely they started to hang out more, and my brother started to call him dad. But my dad didn't have faith and my mom wouldn't marry anyone who didn't have faith. So he went to church, asked the preacher questions and got his answers. If he never did that he would still be a trucker, still be getting into fights, probably have crippling depression and I think he has PTSD now, but can you imagine how worse it would be if he still had to sleep on the streets at night, worried someone might steal the little money he has? His life got turned around because of religion.
I personally was also saved by religion but I don't like talking about that anymore.
The point is, get your head out of your ass and stop talking about things you don't know shit about.
And yeah I'm a bigot to the nazis, they fucking tortured people because of religion (not just Jewish people) and they tortured homosexuals.
Some religious people have done some disgusting things, but they aren't really religious, they're just looking for an excuse to do horrible shit.
Atheists have done horrible things too. Hitler was an atheist but you never hear about that. You just hear about the conservative Christian mom who's head was too far up her ass for her to see she wasn't a real Christian.
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Guess what? The Nazi's were actually all Christians. How does it feel to know that? Hitler was a catholic you moron. You could have found that out with a quick Google search. Religion didn't save you at all. You saved yourself. Ancient fairy tails that were written a thousand years ago never saved anyone. That was you who saved you. You would have saved yourself regardless of religion existing. Atheism flies people to the moon, religion flies people into buildings.
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That's actually false, asstown. Hitler was an atheist. He was against all religion (kind of you, buttfuck). Please actually do your research before coming to me false information I didn't ask for ?
You can't say "it never saved you" because you aren't me. You don't know my experiences and my life.
It's cute because you think you know religion, you think know me, you think you know all this but in reality, you're just a scared little kid who shouldn't be on the Internet in the first place.
I'm not here to argue, I'm here to have a mature debate, something you clearly don't have the mental capacity to have.
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www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=… Fine let me Google it for you then. You didn't even bother to do 10 seconds of research buddy. You still would have saved yourself even if religion never existed. Then again if religion never existed we would be so technologically advanced that we could give you treatment that would completely cure you and make you happy. But no, you religious fucks have to hinder scientific development with your stupid, idiotic, dogmatic ancient fairy tails.
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Cute how you use Wikipedia, something that can be edited by whoever the fuck wants t. Try sitting through a whole class about it next time, okay Hun?
I wouldn't have existed without religion, let alone save myself.
Religion doesn't stop science, don't blame religion for all your little first world problems.
Like I said, I'm not here to argue about your sad sad life, I'm here to have a real, mature, educated debate about it, something, again, you clearly don't have the mental capacity to handle. Hope people like you get help, soon - or at least get neutered.
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www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm I think you should get your money back, because that class lied to you. Yes you would exist. You mom would have still birthed you.
YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS, STOPPING SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS IS ONLY A FIRST WORLD PROBLEM!!! IT'S NOT LIKE SCIENCE CREATES CURES FOR DEADLY DISEASES AND HELPS US LIVE HAPPIER LIVE'S, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT!!!
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Yeah the class totally lied to me because a historian doesn't know shit and a website holds all of life's answers. "YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS.."
My mother couldn't have "birthed" me without my dad, and they wouldn't have met if it weren't for religion.
// I'm not trying to be edgy or some shit but religion stops me from doing a lot of bad things so either way I would probably end up dead in a ditch with out it, and a friend of mine would still be doing bad shit too.
Never said science is a "first world problem" just said you're blaming religion for YOUR first world problems. Religion isn't stopping science.
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Just look at the dark age. An age where almost everyone was religious and there was no scientific development. If you only do good things because your religion makes you then you are a horrible person. Any respectable historian will tell you that Hitler was indeed a catholic. There's no denying it.
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Wow a long ass time ago there wasn't very much science so clearly religion will forver stop science. Once again," YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS.."
And Hitler was against all religion. Looks like you and Hitler would be good friends, and if that doesn't say a lot about you, I don't know what does.
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Hitler despised any religion that wasn't catholic Christianity. Look it up. He has admitted to being catholic many times. There was lot's of scientific progress before that. Ever hear of Aristotle? Galileo? Socrates? Guess not.
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I don't like science I like history, so obviously I don't study scientists. And by history I mean the scary stuff, the wars, the famines, etc. so don't ask me about science.
That being said, I know a bit about the halocaust, and I'm 80% sure Hitler was atheist.
Not the point, anyway.
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-hitler was only pretending to be catholic to win over the catholic church I believe
-yes, hitler was an atheist.
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yee.
this person you were arguing with is such a stereotypical emo with repressed butthurt rage against his parents lel
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I'd love for someone to dub this conversation and start with: "One Ego Stroking Day..."
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"...He realized that God does NOT want him to have sex every 20 seconds. HOW DARE HE! > : ("
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God is not the problem, Jesus is not the problem, the Bible is not the problem....people are!
There is nothing wrong with raising children in a Christian home. There is the right way to do it and then there is the wrong way to do it. We should not force Christianity onto anyone. I do understand that not all children growing up in Christian homes will become truly saved born again believers. But teaching your kids about God and Jesus is not abuse. Allow children to ask questions about God and His Word. In the end, only God can truly change a person's heart and mind. Parents can only plant the seed. Also, it's one thing to be upset if your children doesn't become a Christian but parents shouldn't be mean and hateful about it. All parents can do is pray for their child, not force them back into church.
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Indoctrinating children is the worst kind of child abuse.
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I agree with this, there is nothing wrong with teaching a kid about religion, that is as long as
you don't force your kid to be religious. As a kid, i was raised with the bible, but my parents
never once tried to force it on me, they gave me the freedom to choose. In the end, i decide
that i didn't want to be a part of religion, but the point is i had the freedom to make that choice.
Unfortunatley, it seems a good portion of christian/catholic parents don't see it that way, leading
them to brainwash their kids into beinf a part of their religion via religious indoctrination. It's a
more common issue than you'd think. And if you need more on why this sort of thing is bad,
consider this quote from bill nye.
"If we don't raise a generation of scientifically literate children, we are going to regress as a society."
That may or may not be exactly what he said, but his point is that if we allow religious indoctrination
to continue, our society will regress. The dark ages were NOT a fun time, the last thing humanity needs
is another dark age.
Long story short, i could care less if you want to teach your kids about religion, i'm fine with that, but
let them decide for themselves if they want to follow your religion, don't force them into it.
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There is nothing wrong with raising your child in your faith.
Kids aren't that easily influenced- when was the last time you met a kid who always did every last thing they were told to do?
Raising a kid is a balance of nature and nurture- not just one or the other.
And for those of you claiming the "brainwashing" argument:
One: There is no such thing.
And Two: People change faith all the time- granted, not all have the blessing of their family, but people convert to other faiths or drift away from them- which pretty much completely discredits the idea of brainwashing, as by definition, if they were truly brainwashed, no one would ever convert to anything else.
Further, the only camp I've ever been to was a bible camp run by the local parish, and all we did was make stuff out of craft foam and listen to bible stories.
The lunatic conversion camp sort of things you hear about on the news are the exception, not the rule, and no sane person of any denomination would ever condone such a place.
And for the record, I was raised Roman-Catholic, and I was taught to treat others as I would wish to be treated- not "Atheists are bad" or "gays go to hell", so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop saying those are tenets of my belief.
Especially when you put a cross on things saying so- the symbol of my faith is the crucifix- whenever you insult Catholics on your stamp and put a cross on it, you're also insulting the nigh-innumerable Christian denominations as well.
The problem isn't raising kids in a particular faith, it's ignorance.
I learned about other faiths when I was older (in history class in middle school) and could actually register and process that information- trying to teach children about other beliefs when they're young is a nice idea in theory, but in practice, the average 3-5 year old would be confused and/or contradict the lesson by saying "but Mommy said it was x" or but "daddy said there is no god"- because regardless of what the kid actually believes in, really young children tend to treat the word of their parents like the word of god.
Not to mention the ability to work with abstracts isn't fully developed in most people 'till around twelve, so it's unlikely they'd fully understand how what they believe is while there are many others, some drastically different, at the same time.
When issues with religion come up, it's rarely because of the actual religion- it's because in ANY large group, there's always a few crazy people.
Always has been, still are, and probably always be.
Whether they're the entitled kind of crazy, the accusatory type, or just flat out insane, they are there to some degree in any crowd.
There will always be a few lunatics who somehow think they're "better", even when provided evidence to the contrary.
There isn't much you can do about them, other than to remember that these few crazies aren't truly representative of that group- whatever that group my be.
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You cannot say there is no such thing as religious brainwashing, if that were true, bigots like the
westboro baptist church wouldn't exist. Look up Religious Indoctrination, you'll find it its a VERY
REAL thing.
While i agree that there is nothing wrong with raising kids to be religious, you can't ignore the problems
presented by this choice, not all parents allow their kids to choose if they want to follow the bible, even
though they should.
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My only problem is how my family tends to FORCE religion on me.
Not like that, but they have that "nice way" of forcing it on to me.
Just because I want to be a girly guy and date girls, they think I'm a lesbian, because they don't want me to be a real boy???
Like, it's not my fault my gender and sex is male, even though I look like a girl.
I still do love my family.
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I do not want the religious teachers to deceive my kids that a god exists. The kids are too easy-believers, they cannot doubt and ask the teacher to bring proofs. That is why religious teaching in schools must be banned.
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well fun fact
if you've read "left behind", a christian series, it's common for teenagers in high school/college who have been raised in a religious home to doubt the existence of a god and tend to stray from it.
besides it's not like they're going to believe it their whole lives.
my point is it doesn't matter if religious kids believe in some god, why should you be offended if you don't even believe such a thing exists??
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Soon there will be a generation of idiots...
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First, It's impossible to say that children are forced to believe just because parents teach them to live by their religion - they're just taught to believe.
Forcing is when a child with full consent believe in something else but is still forced to practice parent's religion
Brainwashing is when a child already have some moral/behaviour code and people are trying to forcibly change his beliefs.
Teaching is not forcing. It's okay to teach child your religion. After all, it's most likely what your religion and honest belief tells you to do. You do not have to ignore your conscience in the name of being politically correct.
The point is just to accept if the child in full consent decide they don't believe in your religion, I guess...
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I think that religion is fine to teach as long as you teach more than one view without bias.
If you only teach one (like Christianity), then they are young enough to be at risk of believing that it's the one true religion, but if you teach more than one then it'll help them to understand that no religion is right or wrong. It is just a matter of what they believe and they are entitled to their right to religious freedom.
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people are always trying to redefine child abuse to the point that its embarrassing
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yeah but what if you're children end up believing that a giant boat was built by a 500 year old man and his family and he fit every genus availible at the time on it?Believe what you want i just think children should be alowed to believe what they wanteven if their parents are christian in fact i actually read the description and agree but what of those parents that do force their kids,what of them?Children should believe what has foundation and fact,things that they can observe with their eyes,while christianity does have some of these foundations,it relies heavily on faith
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Well, a religion is almost a synonym to faith, because generally religions are based on faith in higher being/beings. It's like saying we should only teach or children to trust science, because it's based on facts - even if we honestly believe in our religion. And if someone honestly believes, it is way more likely they will present their faith as correct to child rather than making it doubt.
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Children should be allowed to follow whatever religion they wish without having their parents enforce it on them. There's a difference between teaching your kids about religion and having them learn what religions are about and enforcing a religion on kids without letting them choose whether or not they wish to follow.
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I don't really see the benefit of teaching kids that something is real and can affect them, when truthfully we can't scientifically prove that it's in fact out there.
No blood and gore in this little beauty. Antitheists and fundemental Christians, did you really expect a kid to be able to comprehend the adult version?
How is this shit any different from lying?
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People who make these shitty opinion stamps REALLY need to cite their sources...
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"All this talk about forcing children to believe in gods/God, it's a tragic thing, I agree. I feel horrible when I hear people are being forced to say what they don't believe in, just like many of you who had overzealous families that made you go to church without your consent. And I will say it's wrong to force children to engage in what they don't understand.
But guys, there is nothing harmful about teaching religion to children."
To be honest, making children go to church is no different than making children go to School..
I don't fully agree that it's abuse.. but just a minor thing that happens like that.. Even if they don't understand that kind o stuff.
Then again, being forced to go to School sounds worse.
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I Support teaching children NOTHING about Religion at home at all. My parents never tought me about Religion, only took me to church for two funerals and otherwise never.
Children belive everything you'll tell them (Santa, the easter bunny, tooth fairy....) and I think because of that you should not teach them anything about Religion and let them discover it on their own.
I discovered on my own that I think believing in a god is laughable to me and i'm actually considering getting out of the church because of the damn church tax. (Note: Only did my confirmation because of the Money).
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How is that a problem though?
If they believe it, because of their age, does that really hurt them? Like you said, it's sort of like the Easter Bunny in terms of belief, and it's harmless.
Besides, some people moved away from religion too.
I was taught when I was little, and it's naturally in me more (well, I did challenge some parts), and I like it. I will not agree that teaching religion is a bad thing.
Even if it was different more due to the effects of age.
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I actually think i have to take thatc´comparison back, that teaching kids about god is like beliving in the easter bunny.
Like, when your parents told you about sanat, the easter bunny or the touth fairy they knew those guys weren't real. They're just mythological creatures you tell your kids about, but you know there is no real santa. And at some point your kid will realise that fact too.
Imagine your daughter is 15 and still belives that the easter bunny is real.
With god, if you as parent do belive in god, this isn't like santa anymore.
You understand what i'm trying to say, is hard to formulate in english, damn it.
But....you know...we tell our children about santa but we know he isn't real.
But this doesn't really apply when you really belive in god and teach your children about it.
You know what i mean... (urgh, i should stop rambeling i think i kinda only worsen everything!)
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People think that is abuse? My fucking god, how STUPID has the human race become?
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indeed, they need to be reeducated....
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Very stupid, unfortunately.
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Yeah, it's very sad. Luckily not all humans are like this...
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Yes, that is very true.
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