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AdeptCharon — Personal type classification
Published: 2013-10-16 13:46:18 +0000 UTC; Views: 4465; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 0
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Description
will write down something later.but core change is:
I couldn't look at Grass anymore and not think of it as a species-type rather than an "Element".
UPDATE:
Using XY type icons now instead of the long outdated from gen III.
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Comments: 13
I really, really like your on-going classification scheme: It's brilliant! 
Why is Psychic super-effective against Poison if it's just a strategy though? Being resistant, sure, but being super-effective against it is a bit weird. Maybe psychics can cause the Poison-type Pokemon to poison themselves? The only problem with that intuition is that Poison is resistant to itself, so it could only do x1.5 and not x2 damage at most.
Another thing I'm thinking is that Flying may be an elemental/energy type. Specifically the element of air or wind. That is why there has been no pure flying-type so far in the series, except Tornadus, who is seemingly a being made of air and cloud. A pure Flying type needs to be some sort of kinetic or gas being like Tornadus I would imagine. Of course, why Gastly wouldn't be Flying if being made of a gas alone is the qualifying factor is a bit of a problem, but it could be because Gastly isn't a normal gas, but Ghost-stuff (dark matter?), and poisoning is merely a strategy it employs.
That said, I understand your logic about "Flying" being a type of strategy. Even so though, by the way you've grouped the types it seems to me that types that aren't elemental/energy are really "Normal" type either evolving into a variant, off-shoot form (some "species" type) or specializing in a particular strategy (some "strategy" type).
Maybe Normal, Water, Flying, Fire, and Electric correspond to the four states of matter (solid, liquid, gas, and plasma, corresponding to Normal, Water, Flying, and Electric) plus positive energy or heat (Fire) and negative energy or cold (Ice). Flying (and/or Fighting) could also correspond to "kinetic" energy, and Electric to electrical energy (obviously). If so, perhaps Normal should be thought of as the "matter" type which would explain why it seems to be the default type: most Pokemon that utilize other states of matter or energy are at least partially solid (except those of the Ghost type (which makes sense being 'Normal''s opposite) and maybe pure "Flying" types. It would also explain why Arceus is Normal, as it is the first being of matter to exist.
Of course, your classification of Normal as a Species type (perhaps corresponding to Mammal-like creatures) makes sense. After all, if Normal is merely the "default" type of solid matter than why can some Pokemon be both 'Normal' and another type, like Bibarel, and yet others like Charmander and Pikachu are just Fire or Electric and not secondly Normal?
Clearly, 'Normal' isn't the same as "colourless", despite what the Pokemon TCG claims. 
Also, a problem with my theory is that Rock is super-effective against Flying, which shouldn't make sense with "pure" Flying types like Tornadus, but the logic behind hitting a bird with a stone was always kind of weird; it makes more sense that Flying-type moves are poor against Rock, since wind usually has trouble moving stone, unlike water currents. Another question that remains unanswered is how 'Psychic' attacks work exactly. What makes up "psychic-ness"? Should it be thought of as another form of energy? So what type would a pure energy being be: Normal, Psychic, Flying, Ghost, or what? The Unown are somehow Psychic type and yet described as not being "psychic" in the way we usually understand the term; if they organize and control all of reality, could they be pure energy beings in their rawest state? Alternatively, maybe the hypothetical ??? type would be pure thought or energy, and Psychic types only know how to manipulate this energy for strategic attack and defense?
I hope you found my thoughts provocative, as your categorization schemes have certainly been illuminating for me!
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I used to wish Flying was an air-element type instead, but I've come to terms with the fact that it just isn't (to the point where it now seems even more realistic and logical to add a separate Wind-type than to alter the existing Flying type). It is about being capable of flight and putting that to use (being above your enemy and having 3d movement instead of being stuck on a 2d surface is a big strategic advantage). Sure, a lot of air and wind-related concepts and moves are found in the Flying type, but it's not an exclusive or a primary theme (most Flying types are Flying for simply having wings and don't have anything to do with the elemental concept of it), therefore it is what darkness is to ghost and dark types for example. It shows up in some moves and pokemon designs/concepts, but it is not their main focus, as that is abnormal creatures and mean tactics respectively.
Note that Psychic is not resistant to Poison, Poison moves are just as effective as on most other types: 1x
But all the usual explanations people do come up with for Psychic>Poison, indeed seem like making a case for Psychic resisting Poison rather than Poison being weak to Psychic moves.
It is probably based on the rpg-trope of magic destroying poison
Since Psychic is also about manipulating reality from a distance, like moving/breaking/bursting things without actually touching them, an interpretation I can come up with is that Poison-types "defense" is overfocused on damage from the outside, making them more vulnerable to seemingly supernatural damage from inside.
Normal is still a big mystery to me...or rather, it could fit into any category or even be separate from them.
One one side it represents the generic and "not anything special", then it is like a default type in that it is just "not something specific" or a bit of everything.. but from the offensiev side it is also like a strategy, just being good at generic skills like regular hitting, running, making noises etc.
I'd put it in whatever category it needs to be to make a nicer picture like this if new types would come out xD
But it is indeed the opposite of Ghost, which might as well be called abnormal (since they're not actual spirits of deceased or something like that).
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I apologize if this comes across as a little terse. DeviantArt's ads are constantly threatening to turn off my Firefox. I don't know why this is suddenly a problem.
I understand your argument about Flying, but that doesn't really jive with the fact that Flying types aren't ever pure, except in Tornadus's case and he's literally air. Noibat and Noivyrn are also primarily typed Flying, and they seem to be able to manipulate and direct sound via the air currents it moves through.
Maybe primary type is always based around species or kind of matter or energy that is being utilized, and secondary type is always about the strategy that is employed apart from that which is expected from the primary type. So bulbasaur is fundamentally a plant (although maybe the dinosaur half is Normal or type-less) but it utilizes poison as an alternate means of attack. Likewise, Pyroar primarily utilizes fire, but specializes in Normal moves as an alternate strategy. This would explain GameFreak's decision to make a big deal about order of typing: Sableye is fundamentally Dark, but specializes in Ghost-type attacks, whereas Spiritomb is literally a Ghost yet specializes in Dark/Evil (i.e. underhanded) strategies and behaviors. This would also consist with your explanation of Flying. Pokemon with Flying as a primary type can manipulate wind or air as an element, whereas those who have it as a secondary type just use Flying as a strategy.
I didn't mean to imply Psychic resists Poison, I just thought that would make more sense. Your explanation of why Psychic is good against Poison is well thought out and makes some sense, although personally I hope they make Psychic good against something else if they add a new type since it's a bit of a stretch on GameFreak's part.
Maybe all Pokemon in their default state are Normal or ???. Normal would make the most sense to me, given that it is Arceus's type, but not all Pokemon share Normal's weakness to Fighting, making ??? seem more likely. But then why is Normal special and how is it different from ????
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Noibat-line is about sound without any specific mention of an air/wind-relation. (I also have a feeling that we don't have the full story on Noivern yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it gains Aerielate in its Mega in order to get STAB on Boomburst for example)
Tornadus doesn't make a good example for studying what the Flying type is about either. Because even though it is indeed a pure Flying type, it is also a member of a legendary trio with nearly identical designs. Since the other two members aren't primary Flying, its design can't show us what a primary Flying type would look like. We desperately need either a generic pure Flying-line, something very specific like a Flying eeveelution, or a pure Flying legendary in a group where the other members are not Flying type but very clearly showing off their "element", in order to confirm that primary Flying HAS to involve wind somehow rather than just being the strategy-concept taken more extreme.
I always love to bring up Sableye/Spiritomb, because they're so undeniably obvious about this.
Something like Geodude/Rhyhorn is much harder for example, because Ground is another hard-to-pin-down-specific-concept-type like Flying, if not even moreso. But at least we can see that Geodude is an actual rock-monster, whereas Rhyhorn is rhino with merely a rock-hard armor.
The distinction between how types act when primary and when secondary, differs from type to type. Or at least how clear it is. For the "species" types like Rock and Steel it does work neatly most of the time with the primary-->kind of organism / secondary-->just armor logic.
Other times, it just comes down to what type is more prominent, ie combinations of bug+element = bug as primary, the element as secondary, even though the element type is just as prominent as when used for pure types.
We could analyze and speculate about all of this all day long.
But I really hope they throw a handful of generic primary Flying types at us ASAP, just to clear it up a bit more.
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I tried to write a longer response but it deleted when Firefox closed down. *sigh*
My short answer to your first point is that sound is vibrating air molecules, so Noibat's and Noivyrn's "influence" over air that I was suggesting is in a manner akin to Charmander's, Charmeleon's, and Charizard's "influence" over fire: primarily biological rather than supernatural, so basically just the ability to vibrate air molecules very effectively to make sound blasts kind of like the fire lizards' uncanny ability to synthesise fire. I agree that they need not be air elementals.
The overly truncated version of my responses to your other arguments:
With regard to Tornadus and his trio it seems like at the time of Gen IV that GameFreak was interested in creating a pure Flying-type but uncomfortable with creating two-type Pokémon with Flying as the primary type (probably because they hadn't made up their minds yet about what having Flying as a primary type would mean exactly as opposed to the secondary type it had been in every type combination previously), which explains the two other members of the trio's acceptable (in my opinion) but less intuitive (as opposed to the reverse) order of typing. GameFreak's inconsistency about typing-order isn't unprecedented as in Gen III Sableye was Ghost/Dark and then in Gen IV it was changed to Dark/Ghost. I think this also explains your (perceptive) observation which I hadn't noticed about the wonkiness of the Bug + element combinations and how few secondarily Bug-type Pokémon there are, which I would explain as GameFreak not having a good idea what a "Bug" strategy exactly is. (Although interestingly as you noted all three Pokémon with Bug as a secondary type aren't bugs.) Luckily since Gen VI I think GameFreak has gotten a grasp about what primary Flying-type Pokémon should be like, so I suspect we'll be seeing more of them.
I'm starting to think given how many primary Ground-types are made out of clay that sand or sediment must make up at least part of the constitution of pure Ground types, even for the ones which aren't obviously so like Rhyhorn and Rhydon or the Sandile line, but I agree that this might be false in which case it is strong evidence supporting your argument that the Ground type like Flying is meant to convey a strategy, not necessarily constitution, even if it is a primary type.
I'm really mad I lost what I wrote previously, not the least because I was really happy with how it turned out and because I focused a lot on points of agreement and I gushed about how well thought-out and persuasive your arguments are (I hope you know you've got quite the brain on you!!), but at least you'll get the (dubious) pleasure of convincing me to watch your channel from now on.
Cheers! ~_^
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The browser problems are unfortunate (maybe write into a notepad first instead when you realize it's going to be more than 2 sentences ;D).
It is indeed using air as the medium, out of necessity, but I can't consider that as an elemental-association to its Flying type for Noivern any more than for Exploud, Chatot being primarly Normal or the many sound-based moves being Normal type. It only points to Normal if anything.
The Kami-trio types.. I've found it super weird that the other two Kami had Flying as secondary while Tornadus didn't. It felt wrong.
But then I remembered how pure type pokemon look in the raw data: bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wik…
Notice how Charmeleon is technically Fire-Fire, rather than Fire->nothing< as one would assume. That made me realize that a pure type doesn't mean it is a "less" type-associated than if it had 2 types, but that it is FULLY Fire type rather than just half.
In that sense, the Kami trio types are not weird anymore.
Tornadus-Flying/Flying
Thundurus-Electric/Flying
Landorus-Ground/Flying
They are all secondary Flying, but the "element" Tornadus represents in the trio is Flying too, so both halves of it's combination are Flying = pure Flying.
(I wish Gamefreak would make this in-your-face clear, by making the type icon fill the space for 2 types in case of single type pokemon, like in this example I made quickly: i.imgur.com/cB89rw3.png )
So in your "element/strategy" hypothesis, a pure type would mean it is employing both, not just the first one with no additional "strategy".
As for Sableye, I'm pretty sure you're mistaken, it has always been Dark/Ghost, and Gamefreak has never reversed a combination after it was revealed. (Rhyhorn has stayed Ground/Rock forever since the first games for example)
And glad to hear someone likes this kind of stuff ;D
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While taking Normal out of the element group seems right, I think it makes more sense in the Strategy section. Normal-typed pokemon don't have a special body type that makes them a species, whereas Bug-type and Dragon-type pokemon are... quite literally bugs and dragons. Most Normal-types are mammals or birds, and there are plenty of those in other types. Normal moves seem to be standard fighting techniques, like punching, cutting, charging, and using the voice. It's the 'unaligned' fighting style, which doesn't put emphasis on brute strength like Fighting, using unfair techniques like Dark, etc. (The only moves that wouldn't make sense as a strategy are Hyper Beam, Simple Beam, and Judgement, because those seem more like "generic energy" attacks). To keep the symmetry, Normal could swap with Poison, which could work as a Strategy or as a Species (most poison-type pokemon are literally poisonous, after all).
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I actually fully agree with Normal being a technique type. Especially after Heliolisk/Pyroar.
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I guess normal is the no-type or colourless or attributeless type.
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What about Normal? No longer an element either?
I kinda agree with it though
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Essentially I figured "element" is not well defined, and they are simply all elements in the first place, so this is about what they are in addition to that.
Either a direct manipulation of energy, a strategy, or a kind of creature.
Normal has always been the most versatile, since its not obvious what it is about or thats exactly because its just the "default" type.
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I see. I do agree that Normal is quite the confusing type. It's so hard to get Normal-Type fakes right.
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