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AtheosEmanon — Muslim doesn't equal Terrorist
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Published: 2011-07-31 20:50:04 +0000 UTC; Views: 11323; Favourites: 385; Downloads: 53
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This is a simple stamp I am doing. I do not think this requires much explanation. Looking around on this site, and on another site that I am on [sodahead] people get so angry when you will not equate Muslim with terrorist.If you do not say that all Muslims are terrorists they smear you as anti American. Which is idiotic.
As someone who has many Muslim family members, several of whom are in the US military, two of whom have died in combat defending this country.
It would be a disservice to my family, especially the Muslims [all muslims even those who are not in my family] who died defending this country, to just lump them all in with the terrorists and textual literalists. Yes, there may be some questionable verses in the Quran where modern terrorists will use for their personal gains, but most of these texts are taken and should be understand from a historical standpoint of what Muhammad and other Muslims went through in the infancy of the faith where being a new religion left them open to attacks from the established faiths and being of a cultural difference in a time where culture was all that mattered also left them open to some attacks. So when used in modern tongue to incite violence, it would do a disservice to their own faith in that the same book that they use to speak of violence speaks to them not being the ones who are supposed to instigate said violence in many other verses.
It is one thing to say Islamic extremists are bad and condemn them. It is quite another thing to say ALL MUSLIMS are bad people because of what the extremists do. If extremists do terrible things, I shall condemn them, I shall not then say well... they were Muslims so all Muslims are bad. That, to me, makes no sense.
I condemn all acts of religious extremism or acts that are done by non-religious people who needlessly kill innocent people. Yet I will not go..well that person is a Christian, so all Christians are bad. That person is a Jew, so all Jews are bad. That person is a Muslim, so all Muslims are bad. That person is an atheist, so all atheists are bad.
Then you always get the.. typical liberal!!! Muslim apologist!!
It is not that we defend Muslims, it is that we do not condemn the vast majority who have not done anything and attempt to attribute the actions of the extremists to them….for that is not logically sound.
My favorite is when they try and use the text of Islam to show why all Muslims are terrorist… yeah, I guess all Jews are terrorists as well since their text aka old testament is just as bad…
People of all religions have their extremists. I would no more smear Muslims for the terrorists acts of the minority than I would smear all Christians for the tens of thousands of kids that have been abused and in some cases killed by extremist Christians in south Africa [“Saving Africa’s witch children” is the name of the documentary done on this] nor would I condemn all Christians for the acts of the “Lord's Resistance Army” who are a Christian paramilitary group who is killing people, raping people, etc.
I mean if the only basis for judging them as people is the text then certainly stoning your mother for wearing a dress of different fabrics, stoning anyone who is not a virgin, stoning anyone who believes in a different god.. all of which are in the old testament would also qualify those groups as terrorists...
As Aesop says in his “The wolf and the lamb” … “A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny” Okay, some groups, like the Islamic extremists, use religion, others use nationalism, others use ethnicity… does not make the whole group bad.
So I will say again, I will not smear all Muslims, as bad people because of what a minority of their faith does, that, to me, makes absolutely no sense at all.
I may be an atheist, but as stated above, I have family members who are Muslim, Christians, Jewish, Buddhists and many other faiths. So it would not be logically sound for me to smear ALL MUSLIMS as being terrorists for what a small minority of the faith does.
If you have a different opinion, that is great, then make your own stamp equating Islam/Muslims to terrorism. I am not here to have an online pissing match.
As always comrades,
Let knowledge be that truth, which portrays humanity, condemns malevolence; that respects the differences in others while abandoning the hatred and misconceptions of the past.
-Emanon
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Comments: 656
Yes, if anyone uses their faith or just in general use something to attack another person needlessly, then I would certainly call that out. On my facebook page I often call out idiocy from extremists and fundamentalists .. but I do not then say ..CLEARLY all [insert religion here] are bad..
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Terrorists are just people who have the SQ below the average
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I once looked at a website that claimed (among other nonsense) that Islam isn't a religion. It's just stupefying what people claim.
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I was debating someone a few weeks ago that said Islam is not a religion when I asked what it is I got the usual blah blah death cult
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Conservatives: CANNOT COMPUTE, ERROR, ERROR, ERROR
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Sadly.. for many Conservatives in the country I live in.. America, you may be correct.
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Bigotry is never the answer. That kind of thinking is part of what dragged the British Empire to its knees.
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Of course not, most of my family have this outlook, so I commonly argue the matter. Honestly, there will be bad done in the name of every religion at some point, just look back at history. I am not a Muslim, but 
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I fully agree.. I tend to look at it as "it is just the Muslim's turn"... what I mean by that is.. Jews had major battles and sect fights a few thousand years ago over which was right and wrong.. the more moderates fought the fundamentalist..... Christians had their major battles a thousand years ago where the more fundamentalists fought the more moderates.. now Islam seems to be having this battle, where the more moderate Muslims are fighting against the fundamentalist sects.. the only thing now is..we have video cameras, photographs, the world is more populated and we have a 24hr news cycle in general but some in the West love to pump the MUSLIMS ARE JUST ALL TERRORISTS!!!.. morons of course.
I share your view with respect to "Hopefully a day will come and their will be less violence in the world from everybody. "
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Yes it seems that way, but the sad part is many of the innocent people getting killed in these wars are Muslims as well, everyone will suffer at the merciless hands of war, and no one religion is to blame, just humanity as a whole. Though at the moment there is a problem with Islam, though in my opinion branding all Muslims as terrorists will only worsen matters, between both 'sides'. I wish the middle east could get sorted out though, it is such a loss to see so much death taken place....Then history is just repeating it's self in a way, war has always bought such loss.
I am glad you agree there, peace would be such a blessing were it ever to come. Then as that old quote goes 'only the dead have seen the end of war.' I feel it may be sadly true.
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Yes many will sadly die, but the fight must be had.. Extremists make up I would say less than 1/1000. By extremists I mean those that are actually willing to cause harm to another.. there are 1.6 billion .. .so I would say around 2 million actually take action, that is not to say that there are not more who hold radical views, just they tend not to carry it out.. but that is what the fight is now.. these really hard fundamentalists that want to kill people and take control of areas.. vs the people in those countries that are revolting against such.. the most known being the Kurds in the case of ISIL ..
... Humans exist so I must say I am skeptical global peace would ever be.. but it is a nice thought
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No I don't think global peace will ever come, as that old quote says, 'only the dead have seen the end of war', still I hope more peace will come.
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I'm catholic and I don't believe that every Muslim is a terrorist.
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My next door neighbors are Muslim and they are some of the nicest people I've ever met, so hear anyone generalize the Muslim community negatively really angers me.
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Sounds like a diverse family. Hahaha. But yeah, it's shame there are people like that.
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lmao, my ethnic background is Russian, German, Irish, Jewish, Native American and Black .. so yeah, a very diverse bunch, mostly Christians, a good chunk Jews. good chunk Muslims.. and some Buddhists, Hindus etc... fun times...
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My family is primarily made up of atheists and various different Christian sects. Like my dad is Methodist, but my mom is Roman Catholic. Racially wise, I'm pretty white. Mostly nordic(primarily Swedish) with some German and Saxon. Not as mixed or diverse as you, but pretty diverse in Christianity.
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There are some atheists in my family but compared to the whole they are a minority. My father, like myself is an agnostic atheist, of my 8 siblings and my mother...all are religious ..
My grandfather was from a German Jewish mother..and a Irish-Russian Father... so he was of .. Russian, German, Jewish and Irish lineage. my grandmother was Cherokee and Black .... those were my mother's parents.. my father's parents, as far as I know were just black so I often usually just say black .. but if asked I will say my lineage is Russian, German, Jewish, Cherokee-Native American, Black and Irish.
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I agree. However, there also seems to be some reluctance within the Islamic faith to accept that "Christian [Jew, Hindu, et al] doesn't equal Infidel [Crusader, Heretic, et al]." To acquire acceptance, one really needs to distribute acceptance. [This is in no way directed towards you or your beliefs. It is just a philosophical viewpoint.]
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I would disagree with that premise, since Jesus is a central figure in Islam as he is in Christianity. As well as only ones I hear calling Christians, Jews, etc "infidels" are the same idiots perverting their faith and doing heinous things in its name. Infidel means in the context of the book of one who does not believe in god, and of which in my many readings of the Quran I have seen no place in which the Quran refers to Jews, Christians as Infidels in the context of "nonbelievers" - - But of course, in general it has also been used in one who does not believe in Islam, but in the Quran that is more rare than the context of general disbelief - - but that alone is no great worry for me... Okay many do not believe in Islam, many do not believe in Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc... such is life.
[of course Crusader and Heretic are rather different than a disbelief in god]
I would also agree in principle [depending of course what is being accepted ] with the "" To acquire acceptance, one really needs to distribute acceptance." .. Though I admit I care not if someone "accepts" Islam, "accepts" Christianity, "accepts" Judaism, Hinduism etc. I ask only that they do not senselessly harm.... I am an atheist, as such I have no great acceptance of faith based beliefs, but if someone wishes to believe such things and they are harming no one, then they are free to believe as they wish.
Personally, I think secularism is the best type of society with respect to one's religious or in my case lack of religious views. But alas, in many nations on this earth, religion is an integral part of their systems. Such, as they say, is life.
[ I am off for the night so any further comment shall be addressed tomorrow, you have yourself a good one. ]
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Seriously ... I don't want to get into any theological debate. No one ever wins and everyone is hurt. Furthermore, I really have no use for any religion. The point of my statement is it doesn't matter what side of the die is expose when one rolls it, when it comes to theology, there are idiots on every face.
But your opening statement, though factual, doesn't address the underlying difference between the basic doctrines of Islam and the fundamental belief system of Christianity: In Islam, Jesus is a prophet; in Christianity, he is a God [The son of God].
Though I was raised under the banner of Catholicism [Greek for "universal"], I'm not a follower anymore. I live roughly halfway between two native nations and I've kind of adopted the animist beliefs -- "We do not inherit the land from our elders but borrow it from out children." [paraphrased]
So, to conclude, as I stated at the opening of this reply, I don't want to get into any Theological debate. While I have never read the Bible, Quran, Torah, et al, I have enough personal experience to disprove every belief system known to mankind. And I'm not ready to be the target of a Fatwa; give me ten more years.
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Well it is not much getting into a theological debate as I was merely addressing a point in which you have made. At which I will do my best to address your current comment and then if you wish for it to continue we can, if you then wish to simply agree to disagree we can do that as well - - or whatever possible third options there may be.
Yes, I would agree that every religion has their minority of idiots and fanatics, and for that they should all be condemned to the best of one’s ability and should not - - not saying you are but that some do - - take every fanatical minority and attempt to mass generalize the entirety of the group based upon that small group of individuals.
There are many basic doctrines in text of the Quran, the Tanakh and the Bible - - religious texts are the ultimate of conundrums, in one reading you could become the most peaceful of man, and in another reading the most fanatical of tyrants- - but as Aesop said, “A tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny”.. religion for several thousand years has always been the easiest text given is basic faith based nature.
Yes, in Islam Jesus is a prophet, prophets are very important people in all faiths – Islam with its own original text took texts and prophets from the old and new testaments - - and of course in Judaism he [Jesus] is nothing since in the Judaic text they are still waiting for their messiah and most Jews do not follow Jesus or believe he was the prophet - - but as they say, sir, such is life and labor of a thing.
I never believed I admit, my mother is a Southern Baptist and my father, like myself, is an agnostic atheist. But as a child he bought me books on Judaism of course [my lineage/ethnicity is Jewish, Russian, German, Irish, Black and Native American] on Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the very beautiful Bahá'í faith, and many others and was basically told to choose my own path of belief, I did not believe either but find some beauty in all of them - even if it is in their manner of writing.
Of course a Fatwa is generally reserved for one of greater influence, but as you state, sir, give you ten years. But I do not know if someone is ever “Ready” to be a target for such a ruling.
I believe I have addressed all of your points, if there is something in which I missed do tell me and I shall reply to it in my next reply. Now, we can either agree to disagree on what I do not know, we can simply wish each other a good day and go about our business or whatever possible third options may arise.
Good day to you, sir.
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I wasn't questioning your belief system. I really don't care what anyone believes, as long as these beliefs don't affect me. The only reason I posted the original reply was to address something which seemed selective in its criticism. I simply wanted to show misunderstanding isn't simply a one-sided issue. Personally, I really don't have a use for religion. More often than not, some of the greatest autocracies in history have been perpetrated under the auspices of some form of religious doctrine. The best quote I ever read about religion was by Tom Robbins. Paraphrasing Karl Marx "Religion is the opium of the soul," Robbins added "It is also its cyanide; it stifles free thought."
So, I'm not saying your statement is wrong; it is actually something I believe as well. I simply wanted to show stupidity isn't selective; it affects all races, creeds and religions with equal disregard for mankind's well-being.
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I did not say you were questioning my belief system, of which in the context of religion, I have none.
It also was not “selective criticism” since the original premise speaks to something in which a minority of Muslims go around calling all those who are not Muslims infidels and are usually the same idiots in which are attacking people. Though, since the artist comments criticized nothing but the general stupidity of certain individuals who see anything Muslim as antithetical to what they perceive an American can be and not the Islamic faith as a whole - or even people as a whole in the context of Americans.
Though sadly, for some people I do not think it is an issue with misunderstanding, since to do that you would have to first be trying to understand to start with - - I think it is an issue of simply not caring,.
Religion or any faith based idea in which does not allow divergence in thought is something that should be on its death bed, but alas, given the history perhaps we shall see devolution into decimation or evolution of ideas into plurality.. either way I will be dead but whatever the future will hold will be most interesting for future generations.
I agree with your ending statement and I have also said such in many of my other pieces.
Good day to you, sir. I shall address any future comments I see, if there are any.
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I'm not Terrorist, but i hate Terrorist!
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osama bin laden is not a real muslim,real muslims don't kill people -_- he is going to hell,i'm sure Allah is very mad at him
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I try not to get into the "real Muslim" because it tends to devolve into the "No true Scotsman" fallacy... Should what he and those who followed him did be ascribed to all Muslims, of course not.. but in every faith you have a minority of radicalized fundamentalists and if you have a religion of 1.6 billion people.. you are bound to have a few million that adhere to a very conservative view of the faith.
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Funnily though When A guy like Saddam or Bashar tries to Put an end to Islamic radicals by force he is seen as a tyrant by the media, But when Big brother Murica does it its ok.
Its almost as if "Stop killing your people, Only I am allowed to do that"
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I have no general issue with anyone who wants to end radicalism, but how they do it tends to be what I concern myself about. Saddam, nor Bashar, neither were targeted just radicals, they were also killing, beating, jailing their political opponents and people that wanted a great say in the democratic process.
If both had had a system in which they solely targeted radical group I do not think people would much care, but that is not all who they were targeting.
America is of course no saint in the region, our Foreign Policy for the last 50 years causes many of these issues - such as the issues in Iran and of course Iraq.. etc etc
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Also you just gotta love The American logic.
After 9/11 more than 70% Americans thought that Saddam had connection to 9/11, Basicly it was "Osama is a muslim, Saddam is a muslim, DEY must be connected, I iz smart"
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Most Americans believed what Bush told them, those like myself, and others listened to the intelligence community that were saying before and during the war that there was no connection between Saddam and Bin Laden.. it was always about Oil... so thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis lost their lives for oil...
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The sad thing about this is that People didn't learn anything from the Iraq War. Libya is in a civil war and South Sudan is having a conflict where 10000+ already died within a year mainly because of America trying to play hero.
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America needs to utilize the Powell Doctrine a bit more in its humanitarian efforts. But sadly, it goes.. if I cannot benefit from it economically then I do not care seems to be foreign policy for America over the last few decades.
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You know what's hilarious? The atrocities done by white colonists to minorities in general are considered terrorism by today's standards, and yet it is mainly their descendants doing the finger-pointing while supporting and even celebrating centuries of slavery, genocide, and oppression without even batting an eye, and even try to justify their demonic behaviour.
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In America yes. One woman on tv a few days ago said that you cannot be both Muslim and American.. I was like what in the.... but she was very conservative so I expect such from these neocon types.
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Yes I like your argument about the Koran... even if it was that bad it wouldn't mean much!
Believe it or not their were people up to the 80s who argued Judaism was incompatible with modern civilization the way people now argue Islam is!
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While my personal view is that no religion in general can be followed literally .. especially religions that are centuries old so were based around what they knew at the time. I think secularism is the best form of a society, you can believe what you wish but not be governed by any religion.
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Yes I believe it should be kept very secular too... Do you know who one of those people arguing Judaism was incompatible with Modern Civilization was Bush's Dad. He wrote two books... One about how Judaism was incompatible and one with the same theme on Islam.. Because his son was such a "friend" to Israel AIPAC kinda swept this under the rug! It is kinda scary how anti-Islamic views are so acceptable isn't it and how views about the Jews are acceptable as long as you support Israel!
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I do not think either Islam, Judaism, Christianity and pretty much all religions with probably the exception of a few.. perhaps Buddhism which has some drawbacks but is more action based vs higher power based .. being compatible with the modern world. But I of course would also be against a society ruled by Buddhist views as well... civil law> religious law. No religion should be given preference over secular law.
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Yes but I was talking about the acceptability of antisemitism in both the anti-Islamic and anti-Jewish form! How come it is so okay in America when in Europe they have laws against it? I mean do we have to have a disaster on the scale of the Holocaust just to realize how dangerous this stuff is!
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Well there are laws against not hiring someone for their religious views in America [since religion is a protected class of persons in America en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecte… ; there are laws of course if you attack someone for being Jewish, Muslim, etc "hate crime statutes" which adds several years to your sentence.. But in America, you have a freedom of speech, so whether or not you are saying something against Muslims, Jews, etc as long as you are not calling for violence against the group then it is generally covered under 1st amendment rights.
Nor do I want the law to change on that, I want the laws to state as they do that you can so whatever you want, about whatever group as long as you are not inciting violence without government saying oh you cannot hurt this or these feelings or we will lock you up..
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Yes but then there is the more intellectual thing with it. I find Europeans are able to differentiate a statement like "there is a lot Jewish Influence in the Media," from "Jews control the media and are the scum of the earth," and are further able to differentiate statements against Israel form statement attacking Jews. Don't you notice how sometimes when Ann Coulter says something Anti-Semitic like she once did it is just brushed off while when someone like Noam Chomsky says something like, "Israel happens to have a lack of concern for life..." the reaction is that evil Nazi Liberal! I mean I think when the Government makes a concise determination between speech and hate speech it seems the population is better able to?
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I do not think it is just Europeans or perhaps the Americans you speak with are rather limited. I have been to every state with the exception of Alaska, and have traveled to every continent with the exception of Africa - - have also been to many European Nations, but have also been to the Middle East - - I often find the people who truly believe the Jews control this and that are a relatively small number but like which is most often the case - -that small number tends to also be a very vocal number.
So it depends on the people but it also depends on the Politics - in America we have a closer relation to Israel and most countries compared to Europe since we give more foreign aid overall, but specifically to Israel than these nations and thus our politics but also our policies in these regions are usually more closely views than the relationship European Nations have with the region.
I do not know to which you refer, I have seen Ann Coulter say Judaism is wrong and we need to "correct" Jews and make them Christians and almost every news station and paper wrote about .. so it did not seem to be brushed off if anyone looked at the papers, and sites right after it was said. The issue with Chomsky is not that people often compare his views with Nazi Liberal or Nazi anything - - at least not people who read the stuff, the issue with Chomsky is that mainstream media and papers do not generally have him on, thus his views are not as wide spread, and thus are not as paid attention to. Chomsky makes amazing points, and
is one of my influences in life and policy matters - - especially his speeches on Haiti which sadly are also not as reported on as they should have, and his speeches on Cuba .. but also, in relation to this discussion, his speeches on Israel as well - - but also in the context of an "American shied' Israel is able to do what they do because they know America will veto anything that comes up in the United Nations, and it is this shield to which is up to the American people to ask their elected leaders, do not mention Israel at all - -simply ask, if any country bombs two UN buildings with civilians in it after being told that there were no enemy combatants in it - - should America bring sanctions against them? If they say yes, as I expect they might then ask why did America block sanctions against Israel. if they answer no then I would be most interested in hearing their reasoning.
No, I do not trust the government enough to give them such power, we already have hate speech laws, and violence enticing laws.. pass that I do not wish for more restrictions on speech.. one of the few things even the most feeble of people can master - - even if not well.
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