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ChikitaWolf — How do you define it?
Published: 2011-08-09 17:13:01 +0000 UTC; Views: 5589; Favourites: 200; Downloads: 27
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Stamp by ~ChikitaWolfBackground (murder outline) found on Google
I have heard sooo many definitions of a Mary Sue that it's ridiculous
Here are the definitions I've found through the internet:
1) A character who is idealistic, lacking flaws, an overidealized self-insertion of the player, unrealistic, or characterized by several cliched and archetypical traits, including physical appearance, nomenclature, history, and personality.
2) A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.
And here are the characteristics I found with the definitions:
a) The term is also associated with cliché such as exotic hair and eye colors, mystical or superhuman powers, exotic pets, possessions, or origins, or an unusually tragic past, especially when these things are glaringly out of step with the consistency of the canon.
b) The term is more broadly associated with characters who are exceptionally and improbably lucky. The good luck may involve romance ("Mary Sue" always gets her man); adventure ("Mary Sue" always wins a fight or knows how to solve the puzzle) and popularity (the "right people" seem to gravitate towards the character).
c) "Everything goes her way" is a common criticism regarding "Mary Sues", the implication being that the character's inability to fail makes her insufficiently humanized or challenged to be interesting or sympathetic.
This is what I've found. However, I've noticed more and more "cliches" seem to be popping up on the Mary Sue list. One I recently heard was if your character is blonde, she's likely a Mary Sue.
Yeah. I don't buy that. Anyway, what do you think characterizes a Mary Sue? Big busts? Ultra skinny no matter how much she eats (unless that's a special trait for that fandom)? Has all the men falling for her? Has all the bad guys falling for her?
Do tell
Oh, yes, and while I'm at it: I have nothing against self-insertions. They can actually make for incredibly interesting stories-- if done realistically-- and yes, it's possible. I've seen and had friends who've done it ;3
And finally: no bashing on people's characters. Don't you go naming them on here with links and some crap like that-- no matter how Mary Sueish they are. I don't want people being bashed or being given out for trolls. Thanks ahead for understanding
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Comments: 215
For me, a great example for of an actuality Mary Sue is Bella Swan for twilight. From both the books and the movies.
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Bella Swan gave me a headache. The second Twilight book was the first book I ever experienced as literally painful enough to not finish what with all her melodrama and "woe is me" -- if not for a dare I wouldn't have finished it, either. :'>
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I am never going to read the book or see the movie.
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I have none, because I can never wrap my head around any definition I find.
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My definition of a Mary Sue is just any character who 1. don't have realistic character interaction with other characters 2. bends the rules of the universe. Instead of being affected by the plot (character development) they bend the plot to their advantage. It doesn't matter what traits they have or how "perfect" they are, as long as it is justified by the story and setting. And in my opinion Mary Sues shouldn't even be a thing, they should just be called poorly written characters, just because a character has a specific trait doesn't mean that they're bad as a character. And having "flaws" does not prevent that character from being a Mary Sue, there are anti-sues which are frankly more annoying than Mary Sues, and their "flaws" could be seen as endearing by other characters. Also these are not necessarily Mary Sues, but I dislike when a certain genre of a cartoon, live action show, or anime has a certain type of character, such as when a psychological thriller has a badass INTJ or a moe slice of life has a clumsy cute girl.
Edit: Also I don't think a certain trait should be automatically labelled as a Mary Sue trait, like for example not being able to die. That's very vague and people should think about all the circumstances that the word could be applied on. In Madoka Magica, warning spoilers: the magical girls can't "die" by the very definition of the word, but when the soul gems get corrupted and turn into grief seeds they turn into a witch and keep affecting people with despair (the witches' kisses), and they never technically "die" and can only be stopped by being killed (or using up all the universe's energy). So they technically cannot die, but they have to be killed by other magical girls in order for the world to remain "normal".
Edit #2: Regarding self-inserts, I think that they are okay and could actually make for some interesting characters if written well, and written accurately and realistically. It would also be easier to write a 3-dimensional character that way because instead of creating a whole new person, you can write with the person you are most familiar with, and you could just imagine yourself in the situation you are writing. I have took several Mary Sue tests as myself and got results stating that I am a Mary Sue, but my personality is not made of static descriptors but rather all traits that apply in some conditions but not in some others. So I could write a character based on myself, and I would think objectively instead of subjectively when writing her.
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I am so thrilled to find other like-minded folks on this topic, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for taking the time to type up this response, I'm definitely featuring it. Couldn't have said it better myself - on each and every point 
It's amazing how many people aren't aware of anti-Sues. I've critiqued a character before that was definitely an anti-Sue, and it was interesting explaining it to her, haha. Sometimes people are so afraid of creating a "Mary Sue" that they end up crippling themselves creatively, and I find that really unfortunate.
Generalizations kill me, lmao. It really does depend upon the circumstances, and so many critics overlook that. :'D I do a lot of critiques for fan characters in a specific fandom, and I'm always correcting "Sue critics" because of their generalizations orz. It legitimately gets to the point where they conflict with canon too.
I really enjoy self-inserts where the creator themself grows so obviously next to their self-insert. Not only is it easier to write, as you say, but it also opens up the opportunity that (if they are thinking objectively, indeed) they can put themselves in fictional situations and figure out how they'd react and end up learning about themselves as a result. I've never created a full-out self-insert before (yay teenage identity crisis years!), but I do have a character who mirrors a few significant aspects of myself, and through writing her I learned a lot about my anxiety and how it affects me since I had to reflect on it to write it. It's really fun c':
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You're welcome, it was fun to type that comment because it was a nice chance to express my thoughts on this topic. I actually didn't even know that I was typing so much. And thanks!
Yeah, I think that people should be more aware of anti-Sues. I find that a lot of guides about writing a good character just tell which traits to avoid and about faults and flaws to give the character, which is misleading people who read them to exaggerate their character's imperfections, when doing that is just going to yield an anti-Sue.
I agree that critics should think about the circumstances, although sometimes it's the character themself that is described very vaguely. Although I guess, if they could describe their character's traits more precisely they would already know how to write a good character. I think that's good what you are doing then, since you're helping both writers and critics.
I would want to read something like what you describe, where the creator grows as well as their self-insert. I hadn't thought about that before typing my comment, but you have a good point, it could be a great self-learning experience to create a self-insert and write objectively about them. Your character seems like she was interesting to write about! I have personally never created any type of self-insert before (since I never really wrote any fanfics or original stories) but maybe I will someday when I write a story, it seems fun. By the way, this is unrelevant to my comment, but I saw your page and we have the same personality type, INTP. Sorry just had to point that out because it's just that I have never found another INTP on DA before.
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a mary sue for me is a character who is beyond perfect. like almost impossibly perfect.
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reading this i have an odd feeling that "Marysue/ Garystu" doesn't really exists is just a thing people created to hate on characters
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From what I've seen, the term Mary Sue has been abused so often that its original meaning has, well, lost meaning. Depends on who you ask, I guess.
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sounds right on that honestly
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Just because I have a oc I made in soul calibur and dynasty warriors doesn't make them a Mary sue. And who in the hell is Mary sue.
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My definition is a character who is so perfect, that they are unaffected by the plot.
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Someone who is perfect in every way, to the point where most of the time, they get boring.
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in my story, there is a character, who is very powerful, he can do telepathics and time travel and you can´t just kill him with a knife or something, but the problem about him is, that he is often furious and tends to kill people, who are "evil" in his opinion. he also has not much empathy.
would you call him a Gary stu though? i mean, he is ALMOST invincible, physically.
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My definition of a mary sue is basically a godmod character. Someon who's perfect, no flaws, the strongest thing, cannot die, etc.
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wouldn´t that make slenderman, Ben drowned and Jeff the killer mary-sue´s too?
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My only definition of a "Sue" is a character that has no flaw at all and does not get any flaws. If a character is quick tempered or clumsy or lacks courage/confidence, than I do not see them as a "Sue".
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I would say a Sue is an overpowered character.
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My definition of a Mary-Sue is someone who is so perfect that they are never challenged by the narrative.
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Mary Sue- A character claiming to be related to a popular character (I.e: Saying you're related to a king, queen, etc. Also being in relationship with a popular character. Take example of a Sonic the Hedgehog OC and pairing it up with Sonic or Shadow.) or having no flaws, being 'perfect'.
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When it comes to the blonde part: I sort of agree with you.
However, in some of the universes (like Avatar: the Legend of Aang and Korra), you never see people with blond hair.
Silver/white is kind of a 'borderline' hair color tho, but that has a looong story...
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I just define a mary sue as a character that can't be harmed or killed. Basically, if they can live through anything, and walk away with basically nothing wrong. It's a mary sue. But if their powerful, and can still die somehow, I ain't gonna say anythingXD
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Also, Might I add, that people think that characters that represent the author to much are Mary sues, but what about fursona's or personas? O.O
They're meant to represent someone, so I guess all fursona/persona's are Mary sues? O.o
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People are so sensitive to what a mary sue is, that they call even the littlest thing a mary sue, even if it isn't -.-
So if someone ever calls my character a Mary sue, I'll just say "I don't care if you think this character is a mary sue or not. I'm not changing her/him, because they're my Character, and I like them they way they are, and that's all that matters" :3
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Yeah, nobody really knows what a mary-sue is. The definition of mary-sue actually came from an old Star Trek fan fiction, in which there was a flanderized character named Mary Sue. She was character inserted, overly perfect, no conflicts can hurt her, and so on and so forth. It's hard to describe what an actual mary-sue is, but if I was to give a definition, this would be my definition of a mary-sue
www.fanfiction.net/topic/11622…
If you don't have a fanfiction.net account, you can reply to this message and tell me your opinions on my forum on What Makes a Mary-Sue.
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i found that it means a character that is the writer in the story of something like that
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I think a Mary-Sue is a character that sticks out from the story too much.
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I think the term has lost its meaning over the years, especially since a lot of writers began playing with different traits that traditionally made up the Mary Sue archetype.
Example: Mental disorders. The character can have a disorder, not necessarily the 'cool' or 'glamorous' ones, and even if it is one of the 'edgy' ones, it's portrayed realistically, and we get to see the character really suffer from the drawbacks. It helps if the author really researched said mental disorder before writing up the character.
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I couldn't agree more!
I've always found it really fun to read a story about a character with a quality that everyone deems Mary Sue, but they make it work. Or use cliche themes and put their own really nice spin to them. It's almost like testing yourself lD
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Based on the original I've come up with a definition that is: A fan character with an inappropriately important. But there is so much distortion over the years.
I've seen it used to mean in no particular order and by no means exhaustive :
Perfect.
Overpowered.
Having features incompatible with the story’s setting.
Being overly cliched.
A reflection of the author.
A romance magnet.
Picking up skills fast.
Wins over others with no effort.
Very fortunate.
Very unfortunate.
The equivalent of a max level character with max stats in a computer RPG.
Illogical hybrids or “chimera” type characters.
Distorts their surroundings.
Unique to the rest of the cast.
Breaks suspension of disbelief.
A character (with features) one doesn't like.
Steals the spotlight.
Upstages canon characters.
Being a “Swiss Army Knife” of talents.
Any combination of the above.
People should use more precise terms.
In addition: Visual media that lacks a narrative by definition CANNOT be Mary Sue.
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But the fact that MOST of today's characters has at least one of those traits basically means that all characters are Mary sues :/
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I came up up with that list based on a lot of observation since it seems as if people like to focus on qualities that have little or no effect on the narrative.
Characters can have several of the traits and not steamroll through every obstacle.
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Clarification: A fan character with an inappropriately important role in the story.
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Mary sue is a very meaningless term so I personally think that anyone who wants to critique a character (weather it is cannon or not) they should avoid using this term.
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I tend to shy away using the term "Mary Sue" when people ask me to critique their characters. It's become so inflammatory these days that it doesn't seem to be cordial to use anymore xD
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There's people who define "Mary Sue" as "strong female character". I'm not kidding. I especially hate people who bash Mary Sues but let Gary Stus get away with it. Gary Stus are just as bad as Mary Sues.
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Finally...someone who feels the same way I do. XD I've always been annoyed how, in people's minds, if a female character has had a pleasant, average lifestyle of a teenage girl, she's a Mary Sue, but on the other hand if the character has been a victim of some sort of evil circumstances her whole life, she's still a Mary Sue. I mean, which is it? Is there no pleasing these critics?
*Ends rant*
Anyway, characters who repeatedly refer to their own attractive and "flawless" qualities (that the majority of the readers could probably only wish they had) throughout the story I consider annoying and "Sue-ish," but other than that, people need to leave well enough alone. 
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There is a definite definition.
"Mary Sue" was a parody fan-fiction lampooning a tendency among young female Star Trek fan-fiction authors: writing themselves into the story and making themselves unreasonably competent and romancing/making love to the main characters. The "Mary Sue" fan-fiction ridiculed this kind of character.
Anything that does the above is an "actual" Mary Sue. Anything else is not.
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I can give you an example on Gary-Stue(male mary sue) Created not by a fan but intentionally by the original author as a legit story element. [link]
His name is Brunestud of the Crimson Moon, he is all powerful vampire from the moon, has rainbow colored mystic eyes. He can suck his enemies into space and drop the frigging moon on his enemies. Oh and he has a giant floating castle in his soul that he can summon.
But he was defeated by the king of trolls Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg [link] , who did not like his face so he decided to kill said Gary-Stue. The guy was known for ruining peoples lives just because...
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Oh wow xD
That's definitely interesting! I haven't heard of someone using a Stu to that extent as a legit story element before o:
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On other hand author killed him off before any of the actual plot lines, "to come back as the last boss of the entire franchise" of course. Strangely the author did write the ending of the entire franchise first to troll us all, as Nasu loves to do it to his fans. Sometimes he crates awesome characters just for character info books, just to kill them off screen, never even showing them once and still insisting it is super canon. Sometimes creating entire relationships and ideologies for said characters that he is never going to use and still saying it's all official and in canon and we all should know all about it, because if he will make reference about it in future and we will not get it, it's our fault not his...
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My idea of what a Mary Sue is is kind of well know given my essay on Mary Sue tests lol so I won't repeat it all here, but I just wanted to say that it's always nice to meet someone who understands that author insertions can be good or bad just the same as any other story. Keep up the good work and discussion!
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btw, the idea that just being a blonde makes you a Mary Sue is even more laughable when you remember that the original Mary Sue (the one pictured along with A Trekkie’s Tale) has brown/black hair xD
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A Mary Sue is a OC....except God Complex ( Maybe I used it wrong, but in examples; always right, overly attractive, and pretty much good at everything)
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