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ChikitaWolf β How do you define it?
Published: 2011-08-09 17:13:01 +0000 UTC; Views: 5590; Favourites: 200; Downloads: 27
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Stamp by ~ChikitaWolfBackground (murder outline) found on Google
I have heard sooo many definitions of a Mary Sue that it's ridiculous
Here are the definitions I've found through the internet:
1) A character who is idealistic, lacking flaws, an overidealized self-insertion of the player, unrealistic, or characterized by several cliched and archetypical traits, including physical appearance, nomenclature, history, and personality.
2) A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.
And here are the characteristics I found with the definitions:
a) The term is also associated with clichΓ© such as exotic hair and eye colors, mystical or superhuman powers, exotic pets, possessions, or origins, or an unusually tragic past, especially when these things are glaringly out of step with the consistency of the canon.
b) The term is more broadly associated with characters who are exceptionally and improbably lucky. The good luck may involve romance ("Mary Sue" always gets her man); adventure ("Mary Sue" always wins a fight or knows how to solve the puzzle) and popularity (the "right people" seem to gravitate towards the character).
c) "Everything goes her way" is a common criticism regarding "Mary Sues", the implication being that the character's inability to fail makes her insufficiently humanized or challenged to be interesting or sympathetic.
This is what I've found. However, I've noticed more and more "cliches" seem to be popping up on the Mary Sue list. One I recently heard was if your character is blonde, she's likely a Mary Sue.
Yeah. I don't buy that. Anyway, what do you think characterizes a Mary Sue? Big busts? Ultra skinny no matter how much she eats (unless that's a special trait for that fandom)? Has all the men falling for her? Has all the bad guys falling for her?
Do tell
Oh, yes, and while I'm at it: I have nothing against self-insertions. They can actually make for incredibly interesting stories-- if done realistically-- and yes, it's possible. I've seen and had friends who've done it ;3
And finally: no bashing on people's characters. Don't you go naming them on here with links and some crap like that-- no matter how Mary Sueish they are. I don't want people being bashed or being given out for trolls. Thanks ahead for understanding
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Comments: 215
....wow even doing my research i run it you chi...
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You know, it was hilarious, you posted this comment, then I was looking at another stamp, and it had two of my stamps in its description.
I wish my art was this popular /shot
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Shot indeed my friend but this wasn't even on the first page.
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LOL, still there though |D I find a lot of my stamps circling around orz
They're the one thing that get favorited the most BI
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XD!!!I know how you feel,some of my fan art, like a fairytails piece i did as a prize for one of dgm101 contest was favorited, inside i was all like.."GTFO this picture and look at meh real art!"
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LMFAO
EXACTLY
The fan art - oh man, that stuff kills |D Between stamps and fan art - original art? Nope //dies
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I know! its really just boredom and practice at the same time!
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Basically what most other people are saying, But I tend to think Mary-Sues to be more subtle, If they DO have a flaw, It's usually very small and is never really looked upon in the story, And as for weaknesses (For a fight lets say) Can't really be used against them... Like their weakness is a super rare gem found in another dimension. Okay I'm not the best at explaining things to the fullest degree but I'm POSITIVE enough people are posting for them to do a decent job xD 
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So Superman is a Gary-Stu?
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A character that cant die. The cliches dont matter to me at all
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Hmm~ what if that character is in the setting of a world of gods?
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Well thats different =3=
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You don't know how I love this description!!
And now, may I gess, not just blonde, but blue-eyed and wearing a SINGLE pink clothing (may be just her shoes, whatever) is a "Mary Sue"? Without even reading about her description? ΰ² _ΰ²
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Haha, glad you like it
Pfff, of course. Because a blonde, blue eyed, pink wearing girl /must/ be a Mary Sue
God help the people who believe that |D
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Sorry for taking ages to reply -_-
By the way, a "Mary-Sue" or a "Gary-Stu" for me is a character like Edward Cullen 
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I'm really bad at telling, but I think it's what ever a person thinks. It can be different for anyone. Maybe one character is a mary-sue to one person but a likable character to another. Unless the character is that bad, people shouldn't bash on other peoples OC. And plus, if a character didn't have ANY 'Mary-sue' traits, their boring
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Thanks for the interesting point of view! Never thought of it that way :'3
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I did a mary sue litmus test on myself. I'm a unrealistic borderline mary sue.
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Sounds like a Mary Sue test
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In the first guide on Mary-Sues I've written, my own definition on them are "overly-underdeveloped characters that don't give off any feeling of a three-dimensional depth or believability to the audience through lack of explanation and research, who doesn't change in any way throughout the story, and somehow has a major influence over the other characters without doing much, or doing something that would be impossible for the character, universe, time-period, or species."
But basically, it means that if there isn't enough balance, or explanation, in the plot, character and writing style, then the story is underdeveloped. Mary-Sue is a term specifically pointed at characters in an underdevelped story.
So far, I've written three guides that explains so much more than I can put in this box, so if you or anyone wants to take a look, here: [link] I promise, the guides aren't anything like you've read before, especially the third part.
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I shall now spend the rest of my time looking over those guides |D
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Well I can tell you what Mary Sues are to a lot of people: A character that they hate.
Yep, that's what a lot of people I've seen talking about Mary Sues say (in the Sonic fandom)....Anyways....
A Mary Sue (to me) is a character that is overpowered (depending on the genre of said story), unrealistic (again, depending on the genre), and perfect in every way possible. Or, like you said, overly-tragic pasts count.
But I think that all depends on the story and canon. If everyone has a tragic past in said fandom, then the only way a tragic past can really count as a "Mary Sue trait" is if you can somehow make your FC's (or you OC's--depending if this is a fandom or a series of your own making) past much more tragic than the main characters or somehow make it outshine the main characters even if it isn't as tragic as there's. Take the Tsubasa fandom for instance.
*SPOILER WARNING*
"Syaoran", Kurogane and Fai all have extremely sad pasts. Kurogane was there to witness his mother die AND learned his father was killed (and most likely eaten) right after his mother's death by seeing what's left of his father's arm. Fai was born as a magical twin prince (Magic royal twins are a curse and bad luck where he came from) and was forced to either kill his twin or be imprisoned for the rest of his life (magicians lives are very long. To the point where Fai is already 3 times older than Kurogane) and then his twin sacrificed himself in order to get Fai out of this prison (after the king had killed everyone--including himself--and basically scarred Fai for life). Fai took his dead twin's name (Fai's name used to be Yuui) and later the guy who took him in ended up killing everyone, Fai found out and had too seal him. "Syaoran"--who had just been told by his mother that there was a princess (literal princess) waiting for him and he had a choice whether to go and meet her or not (he's around 6 at this time) and he does--witnesses his now very close friend (after about a week but who cares) whom he had promised to always protect get cursed by this mad man (a curse that would kill her in seven years time), only he and her mother could see this curse, and could do nothing about it, all because he had failed to take her hand in a moment of indecision. And then made the choice to make the wish of turning back time just before she died to the moment before she was placed under that curse (keep in mind that this wish is a taboo) and it effected everyone (meaning Fai's and Kurogane's pasts may not have been like they had before the reversal of time).
Boy that was a mouthful.xD Anyways, I doubt anyone could make more tragic pasts than that. So someone would have to either make their character the sole cause of these events (which is near impossible, because we don't even know when "Syaoran" turned back time--for his clone and the girl he loves' clone are his parents) or maybe everyone around them dies and can't be consoled so the characters of this series try to console said character through out their whole meaning.
**END OF SPOILER**
What was the question again? *looks at comment* Oh yeah...But yeah...You get it....*looks over comment again* Jeez I wrote a novel. Sorry about that.
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It was indeed a novel, but a fun read all the same
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Gah, I meant meeting.xD
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Self-insertions, if done well, are the most wonderful source, since what is richer in inspiration than reality itself? Every person is so multiple-layered they can give birth to many good OCs, all based on the author.
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Well said
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I've always had mixed views to be honest
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I guess so. The authors probably had a ton of fun with it too, then it got published and it became famous and it is canon now.
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And that's where the critics step in
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Mary Sue - No flaws,loved by everyone,gets to escapes every trial that she faces because of the leading man,
so dependent on others that she can't do anything by herself
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Sounds more like it 
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The idea that Sues have no flaws, I honestly find that ridiculous. I believe that the core trait of the Mary Sue is the author expecting others to ignore the flaws within an OC, as for appearance many authors don't really do much describing what they look like, instead they use what a friend of mine calls 'opinion adjectives.' For example 'shimmering raven locks,' 'lovely smile,' or outright saying they're beautiful/gorgeous which makes it sound like they're advertising a product they really want you to like and buy. I prefer that they just describe and use adjectives sparingly to describe something specific. So for me, the author trying to shove the OC down my throat is what makes a Mary Sue in my eyes, everything else is just a symptom.
Also I like cliches, they can be loads of fun to twist around.
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I like your view on it
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Thank you!
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Too many definitions of Mary Sues!
I don't think Bella from Twilight is a flawless character. She has her own flaws... she's retarded!
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the most common definition that seems to be correct is that they are beautiful, have many talents, have little to no flaws, and are just all around perfect. Those seem to be the big mary-sue points, so I guess anything along these lines could be considered that. I think that if they have major, easily identifiable flaws or issues, then they can't exactly be a mary-sue because they are more balanced. So, to round it up, if they seem to over the top and impossible, then they probably are a mary-sue lol
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My character has been labelled as a Gary-Stu because we had things in common.
We like reading. We play music. We're skinny. We're big cowards. SHIT WE'RE TOTALLY ALIKE.
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LMAO
I think it's rather funny considering they'll call those self-inserts Mary Sue's or Stu's... but that's like calling the person who made a self-insert perfect
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Bella was a self-insert. Meyer had a dream that SHE was meeting a hot vampire. Reason why the whole thing sucks.
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"Oh, yes, and while I'm at it: I have nothing against self-insertions. They can actually make for incredibly interesting stories-- if done realistically-- and yes, it's possible. I've seen and had friends who've done it ;3"
Thank you. Thank you so much.
I've never dared to send any pictures etc. about my One Piece -self-insert because I think many people would label my character as a Mary Sue just because of that, despite the fact that my character has a deeply planned storyline (even though, sadly, she's somehow similar to some other characters, BUT I didn't copy that shit directly from then AND I didn't knew them beforehand), flaws (REAL flaws, not that oopsy-daisy-i-fell-i'm-so-clumsy-teehee endearing shit) and other drawbacks, just like the other characters of the show. She has hard times, has to work for her goals, and not everyone definitely loves her and all that - even her trusted partner (a human-animal, kind of like Chopper, but instead a lizard named Azul) complains about her self-pitying and such, and he is NOT seen stupid/cold etc. because of it.
Yet, people would still call Sue on her because she's a self-insert. What the fuck.
I think self-inserts are bad only if they're done like Stephenie Meyer (the author of Twilight for those who don't know) did - idealized version of the autohrs, aka who they are or more like who they WANT to be. My character is definitely nothing like that.
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When I first started getting into fandoms, I was planning to make my own self-insert. It never happened with all the stereotypes and negativity that people held towards them :S Now that I've been in the fandoms longer, it's rather clear that self-inserts are definately not always a bad thing. They can be quite fun! I still don't know if I'll create one, as I like my current characters, but I definately support my friends who have them. <3
Agreed. Twilight was just odd to me :I First book I actually had mixed feelings on owo"
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Self-inserts can be quite fun. With me and my friend's RP, wish-fulfillment is accepted. However, I still try to make my characters believable, so does she.
However, if I were to bring Chiko (the self-insert) to the audience, for example here in dA, I'd alter her a bit so she was even more realistic.
If you ask for an honest opinion, Twilight-series is bullshit for me. I could give thousands of reasons but this message would be overflown with words, so I'll just link you to a site where you can read more in a satirical and humorous (but still truthful) way, if you are interested. [link]
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People say a lot of terms,just to have the reason.
They even try to confuse you.
Even when you now that character has all your talents and problems(because the character itΒ΄s you),they say itΒ΄s a Mary-Sue. XD
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Oh, I love those ones :'D
It's like, "Why, thank you. I would have never thought I was a Mary Sue <3"
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took the words right out of my mouth.
Or off my keyboard, as it were. XD
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