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daniellesylvan β Choice
Published: 2007-11-22 04:01:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 12656; Favourites: 314; Downloads: 93
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Description
My view on abortion, my friend brought up the subject, and it inspired me to draw this.I got some of the idea from America's Next Top Model. lol xD;; In one of their photoshoots, they did political issues, and a girl had this written on her stomach.
I used [link] as a slight ref. I changed the position a bit though.
Pro-choice all the way!
Do not use this image without my permission.
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Comments: 597
Is it fair for your mother to decide what happens to your body? Does she have the rights to it? Being pregnant for 9 months out of your life is nothing compared to losing it life entirely. These babies DONβT have any rights to their bodies, they are completely helpless and dependent on their mother. And the government needs to protect them. Protecting the life of a human being is not infringing on a womanβs rights to her body. What about an unborn baby girl, what rights does she have to her own body? Sheβs a little woman too. Should the government give the ok for her to be sucked through a vacuum and dropped in a box labeled biohazard?
I can assure you that my opinion is solid. And regardless of my situation, itβs not going to change.
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So what are you trying to do, change my opinion? If you don't want me to express my opinion towards you why are you even bothering to argue with me?
And it's a *fetus.
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Well obviously I want you to change your mind. But I never said I didn't want to hear your opinion. It's not like this is a verbal conversation where I can interrupt you.
Fetus comes from the Latin word foetus meaning child... But it really doesn't matter what you call them, because it doesn't change the fact they are people.
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Which is an opinion, not a fact.
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They meet EVERY criteria that biologists have set for life. It is a fact, that some people refuse to believe. The opinion is whether that life matters or not. To you, killing a child is no different than squishing a fly.
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Now you are putting words in my mouth.
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That's the message you've communicated to me, if I've misinterpreted it, explain the difference.
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I never said "killing a child is no different than squishing a fly". Putting words in my mouth and taking what I said to extremes does not help your argument at all, but rather, makes you sound like you don't know what you're talking about because you have to exaggerate and make up things to win your case.
I'm not pro-abortion. There's a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion. If it were up to me, women would not get abortions. But if it were up to me, women would also not be raped. If you think that God intends for these "babies" to be born, then you intend that God intended for these women to be raped, which is quite honestly, fucked up. A woman who was raped has already lost the rights to her body once, it is sick to take away her rights a second time. You have a very close minded and practically selfish view on the situation.
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I never said that you said that. When people abort their children, because they are inconvenient, it is treating the child as if they were a bothersome fly and swatting it. If you believe that people have a right to decide on a whim that they don't want their child, then how is different from swatting a fly to you? If you keep saying this "fetus" is not living, (which science has proven it has.) then you are treating it even lower than a fly, because even flies, as small and simple as they are, are most certainly alive. Only 1% of abortions are due to rape. 95% percent are birth control.
Aren't you putting words in my mouth now? I haven't mentioned God once.
Although yes, God does intent for these human beings to have life, but God does not control people; he does not want anyone to rape or be raped. People have their own free will. He does not make it happen. When bad things happen, (like rape) he can bring good out of it. A mother will never know how her baby will help her if she aborts it. I can understand how a mother wouldn't
Having a strong opinion is not being close-minded. I have a strong opinion because I have researched, and seen the pain that abortion has caused. I can guarantee you right now that I know far more about this subject than you. And everyone who is pro-choice is either clueless about abortion and what it really is, or has a "practically selfish viewβ on the situation. You can call me selfish if you want, but abortion has nothing to do with me; I've already been born! If abortion ends, how will it benefit me? What will I gain from it? How can my view be called selfish if it has nothing to do with myself? It is selfish to say "MY right, MY body, and you don't belong here, MY right, to decide whether you live or die. That is pure selfishness.
And I know you will just through "rape" right back at me, because it's the only edge you have on this topic, but what about the 95%? Rape is horrible, but the mother shouldnβt take out her pain on her child. The 95% that do it out of convenience or as a way to get out of responsibility don't have any excuse to hide behind.
Aren't you putting words in my mouth now? I haven't mentioned God once.
Although yes, God does intent for these human beings to have life. God does not control people, he does not want anyone to rape or be raped. He does not make it happen either. When bad things happen, (like rape) he can bring good out of it. A mother will never know how her baby will help her if she aborts it. I can understand how a mother wouldn't
Having a strong opinion is not being close-minded. I have a strong opinion because I have researched, and seen the pain that abortion has caused. I can guarantee you right now, that I know far more about this subject than you. And everyone who is pro-choice is either knows nothing about abortion, or is a "practically selfish" person. You can call me selfish if you want, but abortion has nothing to do with me; I've already been born! If abortion ends, how will it benefit me? What will I gain from it? How can my view be called selfish if it has nothing to do with myself? It is selfish to say "MY right, what I want, MY body, and you don't belong here, MY right, to decide whether you live or die. That is pure selfishness.
And I know you will just through "rape" right back at me, but because it's the only edge you have, but what about the 95%? They don't have even the slightest excuse.
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"I can guarantee you right now that I know far more about this subject than you. And everyone who is pro-choice is either clueless about abortion and what it really is, or has a "practically selfish viewβ on the situation."
That's funny. It's also pretentious and most importantly, incorrect. Also, a statement of opinion. Opinions are not facts so please, stop trying to act like they are. I can guarantee right now that I think you are inconceivably close-minded and spouting off the crap you have been spoon-fed your entire life. Please speak to me when you can argue your OPINION without stating that you are 100% right, correct, without fault, and better than everyone else's OPINION.
Yes that's mean. But you've taken it there.
If you don't want to continue without adhering to what I stated above, please leave me alone, because you're doing nothing but annoying me. If you had a valid pro-life argument I might listen; in fact I have heard some convincing ones before. But pro-choice always outweighs them in my opinion, because they are more logical, realistic, and DON'T DEPRIVE PEOPLE OF THEIR RIGHTS THEY ARE GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION.
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You know nothing about me, my life, or my upbringing. I have a strong opinion because of research I have done and people whose stories Iβve heard. What research have you done? Have you ever seen face to face a person who survived an abortion? I have. Donβt call me narrow-minded until you have proved to me that you are truly open-minded. Because so far, you seem way more stubborn then me, and donβt seem to have a lot of knowledge to back it up. The things Iβve been telling you ARE factsβ¦ look them up for yourself if you donβt believe me.
- The fetus is human, has its own DNA that is separate from the motherβs. Run a DNA test and you would find that the DNA is fully human and completely separate from the motherβs.
- The fetus is living, it meets all of biologists criteria for life. (Itβs a FACT, look it up if you donβt believe me.)
- Itβs wrong to kill people.
So how is it not wrong to kill a living human? Because it is a FACT that a fetus is a living human.
And so you know, the constitution does not guarantee the right to abort children. (I should know I own a copy of itβ¦)
"...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
If someone is denied the right to live because of their age, then how is it different from someone being denied the right to live because of race, gender, disability or any other condition that they cannot control? The people who supported slavery were all free, the people who thought Jews should die holocaust were not Jewish, and the people who support abortion are all born.
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Once again, it's really pretentious for you to imply that I've never done research or known anyone who has had an abortion. Of course I have, to both. Just because you've talked to someone who has regretted it means nothing. What about all of the people who say it was the right choice for them and they are happy they made the decision? You need to take that into account too. Even some people I have talked to are sad about having made that choice for various reasons, but they say that ultimately they will never regret it because even though it wasn't a choice they wanted to make, they are glad they made it. Gotta be open minded.
And of course all people who support abortion are born. That's silly to even point out haha I mean well duh.
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I didn't say she had an abortion, I said she herself was aborted. She was aborted multiple times and still managed to survive. Her mother almost died too.
You can't call me pretentious when you have no clue who I am. You know absolutely nothing about me. What am I pretending to be? Quit insulting me and show me the research you've done. Because so far you having shown too many signs of having done it. First thing you said was the idea that the fetus is alive is an opinion and not a fact. Which is not true. Even people who support abortion, who are knowledgeable will tell you that yes the fetus alive. Abortion is never the right choice for the child. Even if the mother doesn't regret it. There are some people who's lives would improve quite a bit if they just went and killed someone who was giving them hardship, but that doesn't make it right.
You're trying to belittle me now. The only people who support aborting their babies, are not at risk of being aborted themselves. Same goes for slavery and the Holocaust.
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Aborted multiple times? I don't think you even understand that. Abortion can only happen once, unless they put her back in her mother and aborted her again. Which is just weird. DO you understand what you wrote? Also if she was able to survive that it was probably a late term abortion which I am personally against. I think abortions are only acceptable before the fetus can survive on it's own, outside of the mother.
It doesn't matter if I know who you are, you're acting pretentious. If you don't want me to assume you are, then don't act like it.
Well of course a fetus is alive, I'm not stupid. I think I was clearly saying they aren't alive in the sense that they are a person. For example, a plant is alive. But is cutting down a tree murder? Nope. It's not a person with thoughts and feelings.
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You keep assuming I'm an idiot... Abortions can happen multiple times, they aren't always successful the first time.
It was not the type of abortion where the baby is sucked out. Because, that's impossible to do twice. It was the type where they are traumatized to death. Usually from poison that burns the lungs or with a sharp tool. (I believe the sharp tool methods have been banned in the US, but she was from China.) It failed the first time, so they tried it again, and it failed then they gave up.
If you've done research you should know that there are many methods of abortion... >_>
I'm acting like I'm pretending? What am I pretending to be? I'm giving you facts that I happen to know. As far as I can recall you haven't given me one fact... At least other people I've talked to have facts to back up their views... How does science favor in your view?
A living human is a person. Whether it's a fetus, a retarded or disabled person, or an elderly person who's losing their memory. They do have feelings. A person can have irrational fears due to be frightened in the womb. If they hear their mother yelling or screaming, or if some sort of trauma happen to them or their mother. And they do think. Even in the womb they are learning how to move their arms are legs, they are also exercising their lungs. They also suck their thumbs in the womb and they wouldn't do that if they were thinking. Trees don't have brains. Anything with a brain can think and unless there is some sort of mutation, they also have feelings.
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Fffff I was out of town and I forgot about this message chain. Ugh, I'm so done with this. I'm just tired of arguing with close minded people about stupid topics. Fight abortion all you want but it won't do you any good in this day and age, good luck dear.
It's also funny that you don't know what pretentious means, just saying.
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If this is a stupid topic, why did you draw this picture to illustrate how important you think it is?
And youβre not gonna get anywhere by repeatedly calling me close-minded; youβre not going to succeed in intimidating me. You have absolutely no idea what Iβve suffered, or the pain abortion has caused me personally. And seriously, no offence, but youβre just painting yourself as extremely insensitive and angry. And considering most people against abortion already think thatβs just what pro-choicers are, youβre not really doing yourself or your cause a favor. =_=;
In this day and age, people rely on science more than ever. And science is not on abortionβs side. Won't do me any good if it ends. But itβs not for my sake I want it to end. Iβm safe; Iβve already been born. I was lucky my mother regarded me as valuable. As were you.
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"Life" is defined as follows: the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.
Life is emulated the moment sperm finds an egg. This is not my opinion, this is by definition. A fertilized egg grows through metabolism. The cells within it reproduce. It adapts to the change taking place in the chemistry of the mother. All of these follow the definition of life posted above, whether in the form of a fetus, embryo, or zygote. Regardless of developmental stage, a fetus, embryo, and zygote are forms of human life, by the definition of "life."
Regarding women's rights, neither men nor women are entitled to whatever they want. Rights are not an infinite continuum. At the point where they intrude on the rights of another, they stop. To believe otherwise is to support theft, rape, murder, and a host of other evils.
I hope you don't mistake my tone for condescension, RSF. I am in no way trying to be snappy or hit you with an "in your face." I am simply trying to convey the logic behind the pro-life point of view and why we view pro-choice as a tragically flawed one. Once again, I am not attempting to be condescending. I am using definitions that are as cut and dry as "if A + B = C, then C - B = A." I have not included in this post a single personal opinion. And because I know this will be brought up (it always is), I'll proactively touch on this part as well: yes, there are exceptions. There are exceedingly rare instances (and by exceedingly rare, I'm talking a fraction of a fraction of a fraction) where the life of the mother is in jeopardy - note that I said life, not convenience. These are the only instances where abortion is the best option for the overall preservation of life. The health of the mother is NOT an argument for pro-choice. It is an extenuating circumstance at best. Even in an ectopic pregnancy, the most dangerous kind for the mother and one in which the pregnancy always fails, the fatality rate of mothers who choose NOT to abort is between .05%-.119%.
I want to post one more thing, and I sincerely hope you've stayed with me up until this point. The following is a quote from Norma McCorvey, better known as the "Roe" in "Roe vs. Wade." This is the woman who fought for abortion and made it a legal reality in the United States. This is the most influential figure in pro-choice history. With that in mind, please read and consider the following. Her words, not mine:
"I was sitting in O.R.'s offices when I noticed a fetal development poster. The progression was so obvious, the eyes were so sweet. It hurt my heart, just looking at them. I ran outside and finally, it dawned on me. 'Norma', I said to myself, 'They're right'. I had worked with pregnant women for years. I had been through three pregnancies and deliveries myself. I should have known. Yet something in that poster made me lose my breath. I kept seeing the picture of that tiny, 10-week-old embryo, and I said to myself, that's a baby! It's as if blinders just fell off my eyes and I suddenly understood the truth β that's a baby!
I felt crushed under the truth of this realization. I had to face up to the awful reality. Abortion wasn't about 'products of conception'. It wasn't about 'missed periods'. It was about children being killed in their mother's wombs. All those years I was wrong. Signing that affidavit, I was wrong. Working in an abortion clinic, I was wrong. No more of this first trimester, second trimester, third trimester stuff. Abortion β at any point β was wrong. It was so clear. Painfully clear."
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I've said already that I made this picture 5 years ago, when I was 13 -___- I still hold the same beliefs but I have no desire to argue about it. I don't think the topic is stupid, I think arguing about it is stupid because ultimately it's not going to get anywhere.
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Of course you don't want to argue about it. It's very hard to argue a cause when there are no facts to back you up.
When it's something as serious as life and death, it is not pointless to argue. You think so lightly about this saying it's ultimately going nowhere, but people are dying. Every minute of the day, people are being payed to murder children in the name of "Choice." Women gather on the streets furiously defending their right to kill. But abortion clinics don't care the slightest bit about women, they only want to make money, and in many cases are more than willing to sidestep the laws and regulations placed on them. In the US alone over 3,000 reported abortions happen a day. And that's only the reported ones. It's not pointless to protest this injustice. At least I'm doing something while others sit and pretend like it's not real. If you formed your beliefs when you were 13, and were inspired by a model you saw on TV, you should really think about re-evaluate this opinion of yours.
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When did I say I was persuaded into this opinion by a model on TV? Haha. None of the things you said bother me. I clearly said I don't bother arguing, you can't seem to comprehend that. And i don't have facts to back me up? Haha, aw aren't you funny. More like I don't want to argue with obnoxious, close minded people who can't get their head out of their ass. Do all you want to end abortion, I don't care, because I know you won't be successful, so just don't bother me about it, okay? Can you understand that?
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Um.... ok?? I was trying to end the discussion and nothing I said was suppose to bother you. But obviously it did, or you wouldn't keep trying to belittle me. If you don't want to argue then don't.
The abortion industry is going through hard times, clinics are closing and abortionists are becoming harder and harder to find. And more restrictions are being placed on abortion as people realized what it truly is. People once thought the earth was flat, and anyone who believed it was round was an idiot according to there standards. Until science proved that the world is in fact round. People who didn't think fetuses were human thought those who did were idiots. But once again science is proving that these "idiots" are right. It's killing innocent humans beings, and that is wrong no matter what.
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The fact that nearly everything you said is untrue and the fact that you keep bothering me when I said I don't want to argue is just so obnoxious -___- Officially done replying to you, its just a waste of energy.
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You kinda stopped arguing several posts ago anyway. The last few replies have been you telling me I'm stupid, yet correcting me on nothing. Though I would love to know what exactly I said that was false...
But none of really that matters... what matters is that killing of a human beings has become legal, and people are making money off of their slaughter, while attempting to justify it. But they can't. Nothing justifies it.
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Beautiful, I love the simplicity of this piece and the hair looks amazing.
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Very interesting. I'm not pro-choice myself, I do believe in the sanctity of life and responsibility, but I also do believe there are special cases that actually do require abortion, but I do love the pose and coloring, and I respect your art for this. 
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I completely agree with this.
It is the choice of the person going through it, nobody else's.
People have their own reasons and circumstances to go through abortion.
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"In order to understand liberty we have to understand life."
-Ron Paul
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the whole picture is beautiful.
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I applaud you for submitting this and for putting up with all kinds of extremely ignorant and opinionated comments. For those of you who don't agree, just don't say anything. Why is that so difficult? This is art, you know, personal expression and vision. Critique the art on the basis of its execution, on its artistry, not because it conflicts with your own personal religious or moral belief systems. Typical that the same people who would be pro-life would be the first ones to spout their stupid opinions everywhere... so judgmental and far too concerned about what women do with their own bodies. Mind your own business or go complain to your church group. No one asks you to like it, but there is a very good reason we have separation between church and state. They make awful bed-fellows.
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I like it. It's simple and the message is clear. The picture is beautiful, as is the girl. She reminds me of Katara
Personally, it wouldn't be my first choice, but I can understand if someone chose to do so. Some just don't have what is needed to support a kid. It's a lot more than some people might think. A child needs to be clothed, fed, bathed, changed, and, above all, loved. Regardless of whether it's their fault or not, some people just cannot support a growing infant. So I agree. It should be up to the one carrying the baby.
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I don't agree with you on this, but I love the art. She kinda reminds me of Katara from Avatar. (I especially love her hair)
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I completely agree. While abortion should never, ever be used as a form of birth control, I don't believe someone should be forced to carry something they simply do not want. For a woman that has no desire to have a child, there is nothing but contempt, anger and sadness when you find yourself with that kind of burden.
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Exactly! And in many cases, if the women is really that reluctant to carry a child, the child will probably be neglected or even abused after birth.
Glad you agree!
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Sometimes you just can't keep it D:
Of course I should think adoption is a bit better
D: But the problem is most girls can't carry a baby for 9 months and just give it up.
It's a difficult decision.
It shouldn't be a 'back up birth control' though. They really should put some kind of limit on how many can be done.
And some women are at risk, so I understand the need for it.
And then there's rape and a whole bunch of other cases that would require customized choices.
I personally could never abort my baby.
:3 You're an extremely good artist<3333
this picture is lovely<3
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I do not support your view, mostly because I am adopted (at birth), but the picture really caught my eye. It's lovely and gets the message across well.
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Abortion is a necessary evil, even with good intention hidden behind the action. Rapist, cruel parents, teen mothers/fathers these situations should not exist.
GOD Commandment
Though shall not kill. (cruelty) (rape)
Word from the Bible
Though shall not have sex before marriage. (teen mothers/fathers)
We as humanity are a whole and put ourselves into these vile situations and in the end innocent lives must WRONGFULLY pay for our mistakes and the mistakes of others. Do you see now that no matter the intention or situation it is wrong to deny a child life. Pro-life, pro-choice does it matter a choice like this, situations like this should not exist...if we were all GOD fearing people. So in the end we made this situation ourselves and we are murderous sinners because of it. We all have a choice, it does not make it right though.
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i remember this episode and i share the same view
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I agree with you, too. I do believe, however, WAY more attention should go to anticonception. if you wouldn't get pregnant in the first place, you wouldn't need an abortion, so they should pay more attention on that at school..
I also think state and church should be more seperated, since most decisions seems to be made from a catholic point of view, while that's not everyone's belief. people should get free (atheistic) choices, let them believe what they want to in their own time.
I love her hair
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I would have to strongly disagree.
Not to start and argument.
Unless you want to hear what I have to say...
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I have to agree with you, good sir.
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you should include this as well
"MY CHOICE.....FUCK YOU......"
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I totally agree with choice, I'm not sure I could go through with it myself, but totally believe there should be a choice.
Just on a fairly heavy note here, people can say women can prevent a pregnancy, but some simply cannot. A friend of mine works in social services and recently told me the story of an eight year old girl she had worked with in the past being abused and becoming pregnant by her step-father.
She did not have the choice and her body at that age could not cope with a pregnancy.
There are hundreds of underaged teens and children who become pregnant and people simply don't take them into account when they say women shouldn't have abortions.
I think when people make comments about women keeping babies that are conceived in rape, they sound very flippant and don't seem to understand rape at all. Rape isn't something you can just shrug off, it is an incredibly powerful and life-shattering thing.
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I'm a pro-lifer but this pic at least makes a good argument.
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Don't agree with it, but pretty good pic.
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The true irony is that the message appears to be written in blood. The image sends a message contrary to your original intent.
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I don't understand...? Of course there's going to be blood if someone has an abortion. Haha. How does that make it the opposite of my intent?
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I love her hair so much!
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A woman has a choice to prevent a pregnancy, not a right to destroy one!
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