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inspiredcreativity — Old Testament + Homosexuality
Published: 2010-02-25 15:23:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 26323; Favourites: 141; Downloads: 582
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This is a PDF Document. Click on the download arrow above to download the PDF. It is free and can be distributed, as long as it is kept free.Please also see my deviation: The NewTestament & Homosexuality at inspiredcreativity.deviantart.… .God Does NOT Condemn You For Your Homosexuality, Or For The Sexual Fulfillment Of Your Homosexual Love—God Welcomes You.
Please Note: This paper does not question the words of God, Jesus, or the authors of the bible. What it does is show how those words have been mistranslated, misinterpreted, and taken out of historical, linguistic, and cultural context for more than two millennia.
There is a HOT-LINKED Table of Contents and much more Information and References. I have also included a HOT-LINKED Index of the Biblical References used throughout the document.
This is an in-depth look at how Jesus and the early Christian Church accepted Same-Sex Loving Relationships and Same-Sex Sex within the context of a committed relationship.
The Old Testament is a Christian version of events, which is different from the TORA of the Jewish Faith. Of the main branches of the Jewish Faith, only one is against Homosexuality, with Reform Judaism, Reconstructionist Judaism, and Conservative Judaism all being fine with Homosexuality.
I hope that this helps some of you reconcile your Christian Faith with your Homosexuality or Bisexuality. It can also act as a handy guide to COUNTER Homophobic Christians who use Scriptures as a weapon against you.
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In this paper, I often present multiple approaches and arguments for the passages in question. For example, translators have used the word Homosexual when no such word even existed when the scriptures were written. Translators of many modern printings have inserted words that are designed to inflame hatred.
Despite new correct translations, Bible publishers are under strong pressure to follow traditional conventions.
WORDS CAN KILL GBLT KIDS. There are Christians whose words drive GBLT CHILDREN TO THEIR DEATHS IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS. It may seem that the Christian Fundamentalists are harmless, but the poison and lies they spread do great harm. Since many of these Fundamentalist Christians believe that their Bigotry and Discrimination are justified by the Bible, they could care less if they drive children to suicide. After all, they are doing "God's Work."
I hope that these two papers on the Bible and Homosexuality will help to educate kids about the truth and save lives.
PLEASE NOTE: I wrote this paper to help people, not to attract Christian BIGOTS, generate religious arguments, debates, or hate attacks. This is not the proper forum for that. If you do not agree with this paper, it is your right to state that. However, I will not engage in counterarguments because the only thing homosexuals ever hear is the constant litany of lies of Conservative Fundamentalist Christians. Any attacking or Hate-based comments will be hidden.
Matthew Barry ©2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2022
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The image in question, as well as the images within the PDF file for The Old Testament and Homosexuality are all images related to the Old Testament.
If you want to know the truth about The New Testament & Homosexuality and The Old Testament & Homosexuality, you can read them here: and
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You know, oddly enough with many extremists using the Bible (especially the Livitus and Sodom one) as an excuse for justification of discrimination against gay, they never verify why homosexual should be burn in hell PERSONALLY aside from using this bullcrap, "Because God create man and a woman blah blah blah." They were stupid enough to not know they were created to produce as people with the same-sex relation cannot reproduce. Also, didn't people back in old times used the Bible as an excuse to enslave the black people by using this "black ham" lies about Noah's son. If people realize that this is wrong to excuse for black slavery, then they should know the flaw they have of using the Livitus and Sodom stories against homosexual.
About God being cruel and evil, i wouldn't argue about that. In my opinion, calling God being merciful and loving completely is really contradicting. In the Bible, God did admit of being the God of evil and darkness (Isaiah 45:7,
, 2 Kings 6:33). Being the monotheistic He is, it makes sense because God create everything. However, it's saddening that the Christians, Muslims, and arguably others who don't read much into the passage about God kinda ignored that part and preach that God is the god of "everything good" in their holy prayer which really He also create the bad side. No wonder people questioned, "Oh, if God is really compassionate and merciful, why does he allow evil existed?" Additionally, while the Christians and Muslims view God to be loving and good, the Jewish viewed God to be cruel and unforgiving which may explained the contradictions on how God was like between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
While my religion class was reading the Sodom story, i thought i'm expecting some homophobic tone in the passage with the controversy it has been given due to it. When i finished reading it, i was confused because it didn't mention about homosexuality nor the men attempting to rape the angels. So i look into your passage and it clear my confusion, i'm grateful about it. To add some info to it, weren't the angel's gender never revealed in the Bible? Most modern media depicted angels to be feminine and womanlike, but forget that the angel's gender never reveal. The old times depicted the angels to be masculine and warlike which doesn't help. Angels in the Bible were called "He", but obviously in terms of being dominant just like how God was often called "He". Thus, the truth on whether the men want to rape, have sex (consensual), or physically attack the angels make the interpretation more questionable, the same way whether the men are gay or not.
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Now that you have read the story of Sodom & Gomorrah, I think you will find this faction:
SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
SODOM & GOMORRAH DESTROYED BY ASTEROID ON 6-29-3129 BCE
Sodom and Gomorra were two ancient Early-Bronze-Age cities in a fertile region of the Middle East, near the Dead Sea. The time is shortly before dawn on 6-29-3129 BCE, and 600 miles (966 Km) from Sodom & Gomorrah, there are two Samarian Astronomers observing the skies. They observed a fiery body traveling across the night sky. They inscribed its path and it relative course and position against the stars on a clay disk, called a Planisphere. Dr. Hempsall and Alan Bond deciphered the clay disk and used computers to recreate the night sky thousands of years ago. They pinpointed the sighting of the ancient astronomers to shortly before dawn on June 29 in the year 3123 B.C.
The asteroid, which was about 1.25 Km (0.78 Miles) in diameter, exploded above the ground with a force of a 10,000 megaton nuclear weapon (100 times more powerful than any nuclear weapon on earth). SODOM DESTROYED ON 6-29-3129BC
The original Christian religion, after the death of Jesus, became very fractured in who believed what. The gnostics, of the eastern church, wherever inclusive of women and in fact had women priests. They were very spiritual and did not have a hierarchal power structure like the western church had. There also believed Jesus to be the son of god, but not dene. The western church came up with the Holy trinity, claimed that jesus was divine. When Constantine battle control of the Roman Empire, it was very fractured with multiple pagan Gods and temples. Constantine decided to unite the fractured and failing empire under one religion, as a uniting factor. He chose Christianity. the story of his conversion was a lie. He refused both conversion and baptism until his death, when it was done to him as he died.
But Emperor Constantine had a problem, the Christian church was fractured in two at this point, the Western and Eastern churches. Constantine order bishops from all over the roman empire to convene in Nicea, which became known as the "First Council of Nicea." But the Eastern lands were very far away and the eastern church not much represented. Constantine wanted the Western church to prevail because it was Patriarchal (run by men, power in the hands of men), it had a hierarchal power structure similar to Roman power structure, making the church easier for the Romans to control, and Western Christianity supported slavery, a key to Roman prosperity. The result of the First Counsel of Nicea was that the Gnostics were told to convert to Western beliefs or die. The who did not convert were hunted and killed, all of their teachings burned and banned. It was genocide.
The church had only one place for women, as servants, to become "Brides of Christ" and not allowed an power of their own. The roman Emperors had a lot of influence on the early Chirstian church, which man deny now, but it is part of the historical record.
Nothing in the New Testament speaks against Slavery, and a number of passages support slavery, which was very much a part of life in Judea, Galilee, and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times, and up to the 19th century. While in prison, Paul met a runaway slave, Onesimus, the property of a Christian, presumably Pheliemon, and ordered him back to his owner (see Paul: Letter to Philemon).
In the King James Bible, the word for SLAVE was replaced by Servant or Maid, a very deliberate deception. In the New Testament, you can find Paul’s infamous instruction that slaves to obey their owners in the same way that they obey Christ (Ephesians 6:5-9). In Matthew 18:25, people in debt, and their children, should be sold to make payment. In Mark 14:66, Priests owned slaves. Colossians 4:1 and 1 Timothy 6:1-3 give instructions to slaves and slave owners in proper behavior. There are more passages...
THE LITTLE ICE AGE: Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. This even helped to set up perfect conditions for the Bubonic Plague to strike and decimate the population. Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea.
Attendance at churches was down, which meant collections of money was down. The Catholic Church, starting in the 11th Century, responded by creating common evil enemies that people would fear, thus bringing them back into the fold. Going after Homosexuals and Pagans was a first step. But conditions got worse. Starvation, hunger, disease, lawlessness and violence increased.
Also in the 11th century, Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power.
In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing. He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold… He did it because people were giving less money to the church and fewer people were going to church.
The Christianization of Pagan Holidays
Emperor Constantine went further by incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the Christian church ritual—attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities—thus appeasing the Christians. Christmas, Easter and Sunday services (which were normally celebrated on the Sabbath, Saturday) were all actually Pagan holidays and celebrations.
Early Christian believers kept Saturday as the Sabbath until March 7, 321 CE when Emperor Constantine passed a law requiring believers to worship on Sunday, the day the pagans worshipped the sun-god. Believers still kept Saturday as the Sabbath until another law was passed eleven years later. This law signed into decree by Emperor Constantine forbid believers to worship on the Sabbath (Saturday) and it was punishable by death by the Catholic Church. Many believers were burned to death by the Catholic Church for keeping the Sabbath.
Jesus was not even born in the winter, let alone December 25th (winter solstice), which was a major Pagan holiday shared between many Pagan faiths, with roots from the Persians, Babylon, Arabia and Egypt. Every sun-god was born on December 25th. Amun-Ra, Horus, Mithra, Tammuz, and Zeus were born on December 25th. Yule is the Babylonian name for Infant, in the Pagan festival commemorating the figurative birthday of the sun and the renewal of its course. The Yule occult colors are Red & Green.
The Christmas tree is Nimrod revived—the slain god come to life again. The Christmas tree was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. The mistletoe branch symbolized "the man, the branch" and was regarded as a divine branch, a Babylonian representation of the true Messiah. Both mistletoe and holly were considered fertility plants by the pagans. Candles which are lit on Christmas Eve and used throughout the festival season, were equally lighted by the Pagans on the eve of the festival of the Babylonian god, to do honor to him.
Easter, the Easter Bunny and eggs are all rooted in Pagan rituals/celebrations/holidays. One mythological legend says that sometime after Semiramis died, a huge egg dropped from heaven. Out of the egg came a re-incarnated Semiramis, now a goddess. The Babylonian Talmud refers to her as Ishtar, or Easter. The forty days of Lent symbolize one day for each year of Tammuz' life. This period of time is celebrated in the "Christian" church by giving up something to mourn the death of Tammuz, the son of the pagan goddess Semiramis! The (Easter) bunny is the oldest pagan symbol of fertility—Semiramis. The date of Easter is also celebrated by the Druids. In ancient times, eggs were used in the religious rites of the Egyptians and the Greeks, and were hung up for mystic purposes in their temples… The classic poets are full of the fable of the mystic egg of the Babylonians.
Even now, as you see Christianity practiced in Africa, south America, Australia, and other areas, you will see the roots of their Pagan cultures embedded in their Christian traditions.
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Nature says two men can't make babies (the primary end of intercourse)...
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Actually, two men can make a baby. There is now a way to convert a sperm to an egg, then you use the sperm from the other man and use a surrogate for the birth. God dd not but humans on the planet for the sole purpose of making babies. That would make heterosexuals nothing but breeders, like cows and bulls. There are a lot of heterosexual people on this planet who are not breeding children. The catholic church says that if you ever have sex without the intent to produce a baby, you are in sin. Look at the Philippines to see the results of that view and no birth control. They can no longer feed themselves. They need more gay people to slow down population over-breeding. The earth has only so much in the way of resources. In my trips to New Zealand, I did not meet any narrow-minded minded people, but then I was pretty much centered in Auckland. I found people there to be very friendly and hospitable.
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The Catholic Church does not state that "if you ever have sex without the intent to produce a baby, you are in sin." That would mean no sex during pregnancy or after menopause. That statement is completely nonsensical.
New Zealanders are actually very narrow-minded. The majority believe everything the media tells them. They know little outside of that. The Euthanasia debate is a good example. But they are friendly for sure - especially in most parts of Auckland.
Two men, naturally, can not make babies. Sure, science may find a strange way, but the same goes for cloning - it is not what nature intended at all.
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I was going to be a priest, so I studied this a great deal. I stated the official stance, although obviously no one follows it. Did you know the Catholic Catechism states that people are born homosexuals? It goes on to say that even though they are born that way, they must remain celibate, but they could no longer refute the science, which is overwhelming. They have a problem getting around the idea that if God does not make mistakes then why did God put homosexuality into the human genome in such a way that it survives against evolutionary pressure. Obviously is part of God's intent. The church trued to get around this by saying that this is the burden god has given homosexuals, as a test of their faith, although God does not give anyone else this sort of test of faith.
Two men make babies to have a family just like anyone else. However, most adopt either babies or older children. I was a foster Father and I can adopt babies and children, where so many heterosexual people will not, leaving large numbers of children in orphanages and foster homes and group homes. Children over age are considered non-adoptable because people simply do not want older children. There is a black market in babies, because straight people generally only want babies. It is a good thing the Sexual Minority Community is stepping up to do what heterosexual people will not.
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I may not know a lot about religion, but I think God created heterosexuality and other sexualities that allow you to be attracted to the opposite sex for repopulation.
I think he created homosexuality and other sexualities that allow you to be attracted to the opposite sex for population control.
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Whatever the reasons might be, homosexuality is buried deep in the genome of not only humanity, but also in the animal kingdom, so it must be part of the design for a reason. For example, homosexuality is tied to the set of genes controlling family fecundity. Fecundity means to be capable of producing an abundance of offspring. In other words, families with genes to produce many children that survive, also carry the genes for homosexuality. This helps perpetuate homosexuality, despite the fact that most homosexuals do not produce offspring. A propensity to produce homosexual boys is passed down on the X -chromosome, the female side only, from mother to daughter.
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Not according to traditional catechisms such as the Catechism of the Council of Trent. Modern catechisms (those written post Vatican II) are full of things the Church never taught as well as a tonne of ambiguous language which naturally leads to multiple interpretations. These modern catechisms are to be avoided if people are after the authentic teachings of the Church.
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As said by a typical radical fundamentalist out of touch with reality. When you talk about the authentic teachings of the Catholic church, I suggest you refer to the words of Jesus Christ, as witness by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, not the thousands of pages of church dogma, which are the words of mankind daring to speak for God. In fact, every atrocity imaginable by mankind has been committed by the catholic church, all in the name of God, all done by fallible men and women.
If you really want to dig into church history, take a look at the large influence on church teachings and the assembly of the bible by the roman emperors, starting with Constantine and the fist Council of Nicea, as well as the huge disagreement even about the holy trinity and if Jesus, as the son of god, was actually divine. the we can go into the genocide committed by the Catholic church or the mass corruption of the Popes, especially around purchasing indulgences , church positions, annulments even after consummating a marriage, and on and on.
Pope Innocent III (1160-1216) proclaimed he had a vision from God that the Cathari were heretic and declared Holy War against them, killing (including burning at the stake), approximately 40,000 children, women and men, all in the name of God. It was a time to find others to blame for the problems of the day, and to help the Church consolidate power. In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII blamed the Little Ice Age on witches, leading to centuries of innocent women and men being burned at the stake, for nothing. He had inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacobus Sprenger systemize the persecution of witches. He said they could raise hailstorms, lightning, violent storms, wretched cold…
The so called original teachings of the Catholic church were based in IGNORANCE and written by by the ignorant over a very long period of time, necessitation the Vatican Council II to try to clean up the mess.
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Every atrocity imaginable has been done by all mankind. All. Judging the Church by some corrupt individuals is silly. It is those people who should be judged. It's like saying the whole Church is bad because of the atrocities committed on little boys by homosexuals who have infiltrated the priesthood (if you can even call those animals "priests").
Want to talk about atrocities? How about the American war-mongering presidents of late? Obama, Bush, etc. Obama bombs civilians with drones. The US committed the biggest terrorist act in all of history: Hiroshima: the killing of over 150,000 innocent civilians in the most horrible manner. How about the abortion industry murdering millions of defenseless babies every year? How about the Muslim wars in the Middle East that have been going on since forever and that are being brought to Europe? How about the pornography industry and its impact on society? All mankind is to blame for evil. Not just individuals claiming to do things in the name of the Church. History is full of evil people like that.
The original and true teaching of the Church will always be hated by the world and the world's followers - Christ said that often enough. It is no surprise that there is so much hatred toward Her. But God will triumph over ignorance and ill-informed hatred. As they say, "haters gonna hate". Do not judge the Church on the acts of some evil men - otherwise every institution in the entire world must be judged so - including the homosexual lobby.
"If the world hates you, remember that it hated Me first". And you think Christ's plan was to be buddy-buddy with the world?? Are you serious? Think again. The Church is at war with the powers of darkness. Liberals and modernists are fighting too. I'll let you guess which side they're on. (Hint: it sure as heck isn't Our Lord's side!)
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Do you not realize that priests molest more girls than boys? In fact, by percentage of population, and by actual count, more girls are molested by heterosexual men than boys are molested by homosexual men. This means that the rate of pedophilia is higher in heterosexual men than in homosexual men. The rape of girls by priests was also covered up, worldwide, by the Catholic church and was once a big scandal in its own. The priesthood attracts PEDOPHILES, both homosexual and heterosexual.
Next, the atrocities I speak of were ordered by Popes, bishops and other church officials, the very people who wrote the theology of the catholic church, its catechism, it rules and enforcement, all in the name of church and in the name of God. If the people who wrote the theology are curt, the theology is likely corrupt. Paul and Peter fought of theology and Peter, the supposed rock of the church, lost.
The original and true teachings of Jesus have been well received in history, other than the brief period after the death of Jesus, with persecution by the Romans. Even Mohamed embraced most of the teachings of Jesus and speaks of him and his teachings in the Qur'an. I do not blame the teachings of Jesus for all of the evil that has happened in his name, but I do blame those who then distorted the teachings of Jesus, including Paul and the Catholic church, as being directly responsible for much of the evil done in the lost 2000 years. When it comes to the evil acts perpetrated since the birth of Jesus, the vast majority of it falls to the hands of Christian and Muslims, when compared to the other religions of the world.
I fully agree the humanity itself is more evil and corrupt and good.
When you and others speak "war with the powers of darkness" and Christian warriors, you go against the very teachings of Jesus. You incite violence and justification for violence and discriminate and the harming of others, in the name of God. The very word 'WAR' is about conflict, violence, hostility, combat, fighting. In fact, as a Christian, your first duty is to your own soul, before you start pointing the finger at the wrongdoing of others, as you should know if you have carefully read the words of Jesus.
To understand want to know what Christianity is truly about, I highly suggest you read the Two Great Commandments (Matthew 22), The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5), and Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6). In fact, when you actually read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, you will that many of the teachings of the Catholic church do not stem from the words of Jesus, and at times are in conflict with the message of Jesus.
MATTHEW 22 [The New American Bible]
36 "Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
37 He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
Technically, you need no other rules in your religion than these two Great Commandments. Christ says that ALL of the law of the Old Testament and New Testament DEPEND on those TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS. Obviously, if you love God and you Love your neighbor, you will not rape, covet, steal, lie, discriminate against them for being Gay, or any other of it. But this is not good enough for people. People demand to know EXACTLY what to do and what not to do to get in the pearly gates of Heaven. People do not NEED tons of rules, but people WANT tons of rules to guide them. However, there is a huge problem with focusing on the detailed rules of what to do and what not to do.
You can follow every rule of the Catholic church, avoid all sin, give to charity and sill be denied heaven, unless you love your fellow mankind and God.
You speak a language of hate and intolerance, as does the Catholic church and some other Christian Churches. You calling to not hate the sinner, yet your actions and words are those of hate, and your actions and words felt in the death, torture, violence and discrimination against an entire class of people.
Half of all boys who kill themselves or attempt to kill them are homosexual or bisexual, and they are driven to suicide by people like you, by your intolerance, discrimination and hate. Yes, words can kill and your words can kill, but you wildest wash your hands of the blood, like Pontius Pilate, refusing to take responsibility. You will have to answer for it.
Also, while you read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, very carefully, note that Jesus does not once hint at or talk of homosexual sex or same-sex sex as being a bad thing, in any way, anywhere in his words. this is significant since he was born and raised in Judea, part of the Roman Empire, living in an urban city heavily populated by Roman citizens and Roman Garrisons , who openly practiced homosexual sex as part of their normal sexual practices. It was also practiced by the Hebrews as well, of course, albeit less openly. In his 34 to 35 years of life he had to have know about because it was all over the walls of the cities in graffiti (very popular then) and something practiced all around him, YET, Jesus chose to never mention it once, while other things he mentioned multiple times. You can argue that just because he does not mention something is wrong does not mean it is right, but in this case, when something is blatantly in his face, if it was an issue, he would have said something. He does talk about adultery, and that would apply to ALL people, gay or straight.
Paul never mentions homosexuality or same-sex sex either, but his words were mistranslated into Latin and later into the other languages. The is easily verified by scholars of Coptic Greek and of the Judaen culture of the time of Jesus. The Catholic church is so vested in the lie that it feels it cannot allow the truth.
I fully agree that not all Catholics and Christians are bad. I do say the Catholic church is deeply corrupt in both theology and in practice. I have seen it from the inside out.
Next, you once again discriminate against a class of people, being a bigot, when you use the term "liberal" as you do. When i talk about Christians and Catholics, I do not lump them altogether. I do challenge the theology and the practice of some churches and religions, scudding Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism. PEOPLE corrupt teachings. You take the beautiful message of Jesus and turn it into hate and intolerance, into harming others and then hiding behind Jesus to justify it.
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The cases the media love to print out are those of homosexual "priests" raping boys. I myself have been abused by homosexuals twice in my life (non-Catholics) - not rape, but molestation all the same. There is plenty of evidence of the link between homosexuality and the desire to rape children. I have seen documentaries where homosexual men say openly that "I love little boys. I just love them!" The context was sexual orientation and pedophilia. There are lobbies who want to decriminalize pedophilia and make it just another "sexual orientation".
There is certainly child abuse by heterosexual fathers. Many of these are "step-fathers" and not biological fathers. All child molesters should be put to death immediately after their trials, if proven guilty. There is no place for people like this in our society. The world is in a very bad state and shows no sign of improving. The hatred people have towards God and the Church He founded and the salvation He offers shows in what a sorry state those who He created are.
The Church is not deeply corrupt. For one thing, there are thousands of great Catholic saints and miracles (miracles being one of the proofs that Christ was the Messiah). I would not stay with the traditional Church if its teachings were unsound and "corrupt". I wouldn't be religious at all in that case. However, the Church has endured so much hatred and persecution from the world through all its history and has survived all that. The church (singular) that Christ founded "will have no end". John chapter one speaks about how the word was God, and how the word made the world and how the world would not recognize him, etc., etc.
I have lived in a traditional Benedictine monastery for two years. There is nothing I have seen or heard from traditional teaching that shows me that anything you say is the case. Instead, the anger and hatred those against the Church have show that there is very little happiness to be found in the teachings of the world.
I would gladly give my life for the Faith. I would not do so for the faith of Vatican II. Why would I? It stands for nothing but the three Masonic man-centered teachings of the French Revolution. No, the world and the true Faith can not possibly be reconciled. Christ Himself is proof of that.
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You could not be more wrong about linkage between pedophilia and homosexuality. Depicting gay men as a threat to children may be the single most potent weapon for stoking public fears about homosexuality. Discredited psychologist Paul Cameron , the most ubiquitous purveyor of anti-gay junk science, has been a major promoter of this myth. Despite having been debunked repeatedly and very publicly , Cameron's work is still widely relied upon by anti-gay organizations, although many no longer quote him by name. Others have cited a group called the American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) to claim, as Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council did in November 2010, that "the research is overwhelming that homosexuality poses a [molestation] danger to children. If you desire to quote study do support your claims, please give me the details and I will show you how the study in question was debunked. Most of cameron's so called studies turned out not to even have any data—they were were completely fabricated.
An expert panel of researchers convened by the National Academy of Sciences noted in a 1993 report: "The distinction between homosexual and heterosexual child molesters relies on the premise that male molesters of male victims are homosexual in orientation. Most molesters of boys do not report sexual interest in adult men, and identify as heterosexual' (National Research Council, 1993). In other words, male molesters of boys are not even Gay, they are Straight identified. This is why legally it is referred to as male-male molestation.
Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated" & heterosexual; 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males…" (p.180). [Fixated offenders are "stuck" at an early stage of psychological development.]
Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994). some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). All of the research subjects were first screened to ensure that they preferred physically mature sexual partners. In some of the slides shown to subjects, the model was clothed; in others, he or she was nude. The slides were accompanied by audio recordings. The recordings paired with the nude models described an imaginary sexual interaction between the model and the subject. The recordings paired with the pictures of clothed models described the model engaging in neutral activities (e.g., swimming). To measure sexual arousal, changes in the subjects' penis volume were monitored while they watched the slides and listened to the audiotapes. The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children (Freund et al., 1989).
Groth & Gary, 1982, p. 147: There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual.
I could go on and on with many more studies showing how wrong you are. Again, when you depict an entire class of people as psychologically degenerate just for being born as they were, it is called bigotry.
I am sorry you were molested in a significant way, apparently leading to homophobia, but this molestation is actually rare for boys, although higher if you are Catholic. You could say I was molested sexually by a woman, but in my day they did not consider that molestation (not actual sex).
A 2013 preliminary study in Australia found that the children of lesbian and gay parents are not only thriving, but may actually have better overall health and higher rates of family cohesion than heterosexual families. The study is the world’s largest attempt to compare children of same-sex parents to children of heterosexual parents. The full study was published in June 2014.
A 2010 review of research on same-sex parenting carried out by LiveScience, a science news website, found no differences between children raised by heterosexual parents and children raised by lesbian parents. In some cases, it found, children in same-sex households may actually be better adjusted than in heterosexual homes.
The American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry affirmed in 2013 that “[c]urrent research shows that children with gay and lesbian parents do not differ from children with heterosexual parents in their emotional development or in their relationships with peers and adults” and they are “not more likely than children of heterosexual parents to develop emotional or behavioral problems.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) in a 2002 policy statement declared: "A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with one or two gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual." That policy statement was reaffirmed in 2009 and in 2013, when the AAP stated its support for civil marriage for same-gender couples and full adoption and foster care rights for all parents, regardless of sexual orientation.
The American Psychological Association (APA) noted in 2004 that "same-sex couples are remarkably similar to heterosexual couples, and that parenting effectiveness and the adjustment, development and psychological well-being of children is unrelated to parental sexual orientation." In addition, the APA stated that “beliefs that lesbian and gay adults are not fit parents have no empirical foundation.” The next year, in 2005, the APA published a summary of research findings on lesbian and gay parents and reiterated that common negative stereotypes about LGBT parenting are not supported by the data.
How can you, with any kind of conscious, continue to perpetuate and spread lies about homosexuality and child molestation?
As for corruption in the Church, the Pope and the cardinals do not agree with you and sees a lot of corruption in the church and this Pope was elected Pope fora purpose and he intends to reform the church, as you can see his in his latest speeches and his presentations to the cVatican counsel.
By-the-way, my background is Franciscan.
STUDY: A University Of Georgia study found that UP TO 46% of HOMOPHOBIC MEN MAY BE GAY OR BISEXUAL THEMSELVES. College men were selected on the basis of their report of having only heterosexual arousal and experiences, and who were Straight-Identified. They thought they were volunteering for a different kind of sexual study. They were given an extensive questionnaire to fill out, which was designed to secretly identify how Homophobic each man was. For the purpose of this study, "Homophobia" was defined as a negative emotional reaction (e.g., fear, anxiety, anger, discomfort) to homosexuality. It was measured by a questionnaire called the Index of Homophobia.
The men were each shown pornographic videos of Heterosexual, Gay, and Lesbian Sex. Their sexual arousal was measured by penile plethysmography, which precisely measures and records male arousal (measures the circumference of their penis). When shown the GAY Sex video, it was shown that 80% of Homophobic men got moderate to full erections looking at Gay pornography, compared to 34% of non-homophobic men. The Homophobic men got moderate to full erections 46% more than non-homophobic men. This means that 46% of Homophobic men are likely Bisexual or Gay.
It would be interesting to see if you sexually respond to Gay pornography, although I am sure you do not look at any pornographic materials. Remember that any sex before marriage is a grave sin.
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Homosexual pornography makes me ill, to be honest. Not that I seek such things, but they are hard to miss in today's world. I do not agree at all with that statement that most homophobic men enjoy homosexual things. I've heard it before and I can't see how it makes sense. It's like saying that arachnophobes actually really love spiders or that acrophobes actually really love heights. But I guess if that statement is true, I am no homophobe. I am simply heterosexual.
I wouldn't bother to list statistics to prove points because statistics are one of the easiest tools to spread false information. In fact, there are books written about the art of doing so.
Whatever the case, molesting people is wrong no matter what. I know everyone agrees with that.
I know several homosexual men and boys who have raped boys. I was myself sexually molested by a homosexual when I was about 11 (I won't go into detail but he didn't get far at all, thank God). A good little doco on the homosexual lobby and its intolerance towards people standing up, peacefully, for marriage between one man and one woman: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTgpKo… ;
We do not hate homosexuals. We hate the consequences and impact on society and the fact that it offends God. It is like abortion: we do not hate the people involved - only the act and the intention of the people committing it. Neither do we hate ourselves when we sin - we hate the sin itself and the fact that our bent nature is so prone to it.
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If you know several homosexual men who molested boys, they should be in prison. Your personal experience with molesters defies all probabilities unless it involves a program specifically for molesters. I have yet to meet any homosexual man who has molested a boy and i am 59 years old and have been around far more homosexual men than you. How it is that you know these molesters is a mystery to me. Are you counting guys who were underage themselves, like 16 and 17 year-old boys having sex? The age of sexual consent in New Zealand is 16. Therefore, for molestation to have occurred, the child must be age 15 or younger. Therefore, I am unable to believe you unless you have access to men either incarcerated or in treatment as pedophiles.
Note that Pedophilia is the molestation of kids up to 12 years old (or when puberty starts). Hebephilia is defined as individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in early pubescent children 11-14 year old (whenever puberty starts to age 14). Ephebophilia is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19.
You are quick to dismiss data and studies you do not agree with, just as many fundamentalists dismiss any science they do not agree with. The Catholic church murdered people who claimed the earth was round and that the earth was not the center of the universe and so on. The Catholic church methodically lied about Mary Magdalene being a prostitute for centuries and only recently apologized for it, and therefore nothing the church says can be trusted unless corroborated by other means.
As for statistics, I was not quoting statistics, I was quoting peer reviewed studies, studies that have to stand up to testing and review of their peers, looking at data collection standards, protocols and methods, the processing and conclusions drawn. The replication of a study by someone else confirms the results.
I left my paying job at age 34 to devote my life to volunteer work, to feed the hungry, care for the dying, and offer free counseling, which I still do today 25 years later, full time. My life have been dedicated to helping others, yet you would stand in judgment of me, when Jesus most certain would not have. In fact, only mankind has stood in judgment of homosexuality, not Jesus and Not God.
I believe that your intolerance of homosexuals offends God. Chances are I will fair better than you on judgment day.
People like you keep saying you do not hate homosexuals, but then willingly drive children to suicide, deny equal human rights to homosexuals, discriminate against homosexual, etc. You say you do not hate, but your actions and words say you hate homosexuals.
Therefore, it seems we will not be able to agree on anything on this subject, so I see no need to continue going in circles. While it has been stimulating discussing things with you, I need to devote my time to the kids I counsel. All the best, Matthew
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I know several men who have raped boys under 16. One of the victims was an offender's younger brother. One man has recently gone to prison. His adult son, also a raper of boys (yes, plural) is awaiting trial. One man is at large. Another man is serving his life sentences one after the other ("the beast of Blenheim" (NZ) - he spent time in our local jail recently).
It doesn't matter what anyone believes or doesn't believe - facts are facts. I know the definitions of the words I use. I am also very familiar with the Bible and would not dare take quotes out of context - that would offend the Divine Author (yes, the writers of the books of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Ghost). And I certainly wouldn't make up the fact that homosexuals have tried things on me - who the heck would admit that if it wasn't true? I don't have time to lie.
I know this argument will go nowhere, but it may be of interest to other readers.
I too must concentrate my time on more fruitful pursuits (most of all, my wonderful wife and baby boy).
All the best and may God His grace work in you soul. It has been interesting. Adios.
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You seem to know a lot of criminals. When you look at the total cases averaged over time and by percentage of the population, I believe you would find that New Zealand matches most of the rest of the world with a very low rate of such offenses. When the child has not reach puberty, offenders in that class, as I quoted the experts, do not even have a Sexual orientation and are often willing to rape either girls or boys depending on what they get their hands on, and some do have a gender preference but apparently it is not sexual orientation linked.
I agree that the gospels were divinely inspired, in Coptic Greek, but to believe that thousand upon thousand of translators were also divinely inspired is ludicrous, especially when you have some 102 english translation in use today, which all have significant differences in them. The Catholic church gets around this by claiming their translation is divinely inspired but not the others, which is even more ludicrous and beyond belief.
There is no possible way to directly translate Coptic Greek into Latin or modern languages. Therefore, translation is a process of interpretation. As I said, My Catholic bible has a chapter in the forward that talks specifically about all of the problems trying to translate Coptic Greek into other languages, "without offending the ear." Direct translation comes out looking like gibberish, although it would have been perfectly comprehendible to those who spoke and read in the that language.
So you see you know very little about it and are blindly following the words of translators, men, NOT THE DIVINE AUTHOR.
There is a prohibition against premarital sex for ALL people. I sure hope you have not comitted this terrible sin. Premarital sex is a sin just as you claim homosexual sex is, even when homosexuals are married by ministers, so why do you not campaign to bar heterosexuals who commit the sin of premarital sex, to see them imprisoned for their sin, unable to get a job, be spit on by other Christians and ostracized? You live by a double-standard. You apply draconian treatment of homosexuals who you claim sin, but not against other sinners, even murderers and rapists. This again illustrates your Bigotry. It is like the Ten Commandments, where it says you shall not kill, it does not go on to say except to kill prisoners or criminals, nor does it say it is ok to kill in wars or for self-defense. But you find ways to justify evil acts, and the very worst are the ones committed in the name of God and Jesus.
Bigoted Christians like you, as apposed to un-bigoted Christians, want a class of people they can look down on and feel superior to, feel like you are fundamentally better than them, and you desire to impose your will on them, enjoying it and getting off on it. If you cannot lift yourself up, why not tear down others. This is the face of bigotry.
Alas, I suppose this means you will train your child to hate too. And so the wheel of hate turns generationally. It is just like with the Jews and the Palestinians, the Catholics of Northern Ireland against the Protestants of Northern Ireland, and so many other examples of generational bigotry and hatred passed from generation to another and condoned and perpetuating by certain Christian churches.
Sir, you have a right to believe whatever you want, but I do not go around to Christian sites and spew hate and intolerance at them. You go out of your way to IMPOSE your beliefs on me and others. You actively SEEK to discriminate, to put down, name-call, and pass judgment, violating the teachings of Jesus repeatedly in the process, justifying it all to yourself.
I am so used to these attacks they do not bother me, but I feel that I have to answer your lies for the sake of the young people you are harming and a some you could be adding to the pressure of depression or suicide. If you ended up contributing to the death of another, you would justify it, but on Judgement Day you cannot wrap yourself in righteousness, for the blood will be upon your hands.
After your compatriot wrote me another hate comment, I now see that this is probably a pattern of spamming and discrimination against me. You are not to ever post a comment or note on my pages again or you will be banned and I will file a complaint of spamming and discrimination with the DA admin.
I bid you adieu.
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I am an atheist homosexual, and it warms my icy black heart to see that Christians can love homosexuals too~
<3
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LOL. It is perhaps the first step towards finding Christ acceptable, that His followers do not set up stumbling blocks to keep you from drawing near to God. Let it be between you and God, your sexuality. Jesus says to the woman caught in adultery, "Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you" But He also told her to go and sin no more. I have not received any divine inspiration condemning homosexuals. I believe we should love and treat others as we would like to be treated. In my personal life I have known many (although I am not one) and find, being an artist and a writer, it is more common among creative people, artists like myself. I also feel I would be much poorer in my spirit, if I condemned these people, for it is God's grace to know Him, I too was blind to His existence for a time. We cannot of our own selves come to Him, except that we first love. John 14:21 & John 14:23.
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I am a Humanist Homosexual (humanism being a form of atheism), and I find that bigotry is even found within the Sexual Minority Community, and even against each other. Alas Hate is all around us. I n my experience, most Christians who are homophobic are that way because it was taught to them, so we are objectified, seen not as individual humans but rather those things that are evil perverts, child molester, disgusting, etc. Often, once they meet us and get to know us as people, they lose their homophobia. Still, it is sad to know people who may then say, "I love you as a friend, and am sad you will burn in hell." These are people who accept that you are a good person, but still believe the propaganda and lies perpetrated by some churches, such as the Catholic church.
It is particularly upsetting to see bigotry by homosexuals against bisexuals, Gay men against Lesbians, Lesbians agains Gay men, Jocks against effeminate and on and on.
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I watched this movie "The Secrets" or "Ha Sodot" in hebrew, about two students of Tzfat, where they teach young orthodox women the Torah, who fell in love. One of them was a wise student of Torah, she learned it so well that when the other girl, who didn't know the text so well, said to her that what they did is a sin, the wise student told her that it wasn't. Let's be clear about how the wise student was: very conservative, very serious, an erudite who followed jewish's laws every day at every hour, every minute of her life. One might assume she was homophobic for this, but she told the other girl that they didn't commit a sin, because the sacred texts only said that "sperm waste" was a sin, and women didn't have sperm, so women can't commit sin if they lie with another woman.
That resolution was such a surprise, and a learning about jewish laws that until now it surprises me. This young girl took advantage of the literal reading of the sacred texts to love abother woman without guilt.
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Thank you for the story. It is very interesting.
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The part of Sodom made me feel so well. I always saw it as the "Homophobic reading" of the bible, and when I was little I liked very much to read the bible. I was very christian, but my beliefs changed because of the homophobic references that my school taught us to believe as "logical". My school was a bit retarded in that way. Luckily, japanese animation saved me from that.
My beliefs will remain changing, but knowing that Sodom may not refer to Homosexuality makes me feel better. What a good reading.
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The thing is, even Christians did not interpret Sodom and Gomorrah as having anything to do with homosexuality until AD1100, well over a thousand years after the death of Jesus. a man named Peter Damien interpreted one single word know in the story from meaning 'to know who you are (interrogate the angles about who they wired where they came from)' to know you in a sexual way, to want sex with every man, women and child in sodom. The problem is that the word 'Know' is not used in a sexual way elsewhere in the Old Testament. There church had decided to after Pagans and homosexuality was seen as uniquely Pagan.
Even the Jewish faith never interpreted Sodom & Gomorrah to be about homosexuality.
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then this is a hell of a misunderstood
I hope people realize and stop blaming homosexual people for who they sleep with
also, even if the gomorrah and sodom story refered to homosexuality, no one can criticize someone else for who they love or feel sexualli attracted to. No one has died because of people being homosexual U.U
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Unfortunately, most people are not as open-minded as you.
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Being there 3 types of laws (moral laws, ritual laws, and social laws) I was told that only the ritual laws are no longer recognized since Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice, and that the moral laws (like homosexuality) would still remain sin. What I don't understand, is how to exactly recognize which is a moral law, I saw things that used to be sins, like cutting your hair on the sides, touching dead animals carcass and etc, but those don't look like moral laws or ritual laws.
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I don't actually know if I should be trying to answer your question from a Jewish perspective or a Christian perspective. The odds suggest I should do it more from a Christian perspective, but if I wrong, let me know.
You see a lot of people hung up on laws and rules. As we shall see bellow, Jesus felt that you only needed to rules to live your life by and to know what was right and wrong by. But people do not want something you have to think about and figure out. Most humans demand ceremony, ritual, and tons of rules. They want to know exactly what they must do and must not do to avoid hell and gain entry into heaven. But this is not the way of Jesus Christ. You can follow every single rule of your church, plus give to charity and do good works, and NOT gain entry into heaven. Heaven is predicated on the Two Great Commandments that Jesus gave us, to love god and to love your fellow mankind. You can follow all of the rules, not commit sins and do good woks, without having that love in your heart. But this is not what most Christian churches teach.
We start with a premise of right and wrong. What makes something a sin? What if your car slides on ice and kills someone—is this a sin, haven't you have just killed someone? What if you were drinking alcohol and have an accident that was aggravated by your poor reflexes (negligence)—is this a sin? What if you are verbally fighting with someone who becomes afraid of you, then runs away and falls down the stairs, dying—is this a sin? What if you have been abused horribly for decades, then emotionally and mentally break, and in a fog, kill your abuser—is this a sin? What if you start taking the antidepressant Prozac and it makes you go crazy and kill someone—is this a sin? What if you are robbing a store and the clerk's heart starts beating erratically, sow he is sent to the hospital by ambulance, but the ambulance is in a traffic accident and the clerk dies (actual case)—is this a sin? [The robber was convicted of premeditated murder under the Felony Murder Law that says if anyone dies as a result of you committing a felony crime, it is treated as if you planned and intended the death.]
I could keep giving you many examples, but my point to you is the SIN is not determined by the act itself, it is determined by the INTENT. In fact, you can commit a sin in your mind, without ever actually physically committing the sin. Laws are rigid and cannot account for the real world. To know if something is a sin, you must look to intent. If you had no idea something was wrong to do, a sin, then you had no intent to commit a sin, and thus no sin was committed. You cannot determine sin by just writing a rule. This is the message of Jesus Christ in giving us only TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS, in which Jesus said that ALL of the laws of the prophets depend. THE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS
If you are Christian Leaning, there is something incredibly simple given to you by Jesus Christ, to be your sole needed guiding light for determining your spiritual path and in determining Right from Wrong:
MATTHEW 22 The New American Bible
"Teacher, 21 which commandment in the law is the greatest?"
He said to him, 22 "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the greatest and the first commandment.
The second is like it: 23 You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
24 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."This means that the entire OLD TESTAMENT must be reinterpreted according to the Two Great Commandments. If you love your fellow mankind then you will not steal, lie, cheat, kill, etc.
How can you commit sin in your mind, without ever actually physically doing the act? Let us say a married man greatly desires his neighbor's wife in a sexual way, and she shows an equal interest. He starts to plan how to make it happen, but then realizes that this is wrong and he decides to not to commit the sin of adultery. Temptation itself is never a sin or every human would go to hell. We are human and human nature itself gives arise to sinful temptations, such as greed. With his choice to stop the behavior, no sin is committed. HOWEVER, let us say that the man and woman plan to meet, but then he becomes afraid of being caught and stops. In this case, the man has committed the sin of adultery. He went through with his INTENT and CHOICE of committing the sin, and was only stopped by either fear or circumstances, otherwise he would have gone through with it.
SIN VERSES RULES FOR LIVING HEALTHY
In the Old Testament, how do you know which part is story, which part is allegory and which part is actual law as given by the Prophets? When the Jews are prohibited from eating pork, this was really a rule to prevent people from dying of food poisoning, since pigs were often the cause of food poising deaths. Pigs ate 'unclean things" including sewage and rotten or contaminated food, and this can be passed on to those who then eat the pigs. Somehow this was then made into a sin, just as Catholics made it a sin to eat meat on Fridays. These rules have nothing to do with right and wrong or sin, and everything to do with rules meant to keep you healthy. Not having sex before marriage is the same way. Getting pregnant outside of marriage, in ancient times, was a disaster. Some Christian Faiths say that enjoying sex is a sin, because sex is only meant to procreate. If this were true, why would god create humans to enjoy sex?
What you have is thousands of years of people making up rules, giving opinions and then codifying it into law over time. Therefore, how do you know which part is story, which part is allegory and which part is actual law as given by the Prophets? You must use both common sense and the Two Great Commandments given by Jesus, who also said, "The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
HOMOSEXUALITY:
The Old Testament was originally all about Nomadic Hebrews. Nomadic Hebrews saw cities as a sin and inhospitality as the greatest sin of all. Many of the 'rules' and 'laws' of the Hebrews were based in nomadic law, survival under very harsh conditions and with very limited resources. It was also a very cruel law, necessitated by survival. Disobey and die. Disobey your father and die. Society was extremely rigid. But again, Law and Rules for a society are different from SIN. The Old Testament lumps them all together, while other parts are more of a history, or allegory story telling.
If you read my Old Testament & Homosexuality it will take you through every mention of same-sex sexuality in the Old Testament, to show the translations problems, context problems, interpretations problems, etc.
Historically, homosexuality was tolerated and generally accepted throughout the ancient lands and in aboriginal populations on all of the continents, including Native Americans and even Pacific Islanders. Native americans called us Two-Spirits because we were the bridge between the two gender spirits. Ancient tribal societies typically had a homosexual Shaman or Medicine man/woman. We tended to be tribal negotiators and teachers. Homosexuality was openly practiced in the vast Persian empire, Greek empire and Roman Empire. Active Christian opposition seems to have started around 1100 AD.
Well, I could keep going, but I have no idea how much detail you want, and I do not want to bore you to death, lol. I hope this is of some help.
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It is greatly appreciated 
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When I was a boy I wanted to be a priest and I was an altar boy. My father was also someone in charge of religious instruction (CCD) for Catholic Kids who were in public schools. I was only 13 by a few weeks, when one morning my priest told us altar boys, "When a boy is attracted to another boy, he is an ABOMINATION in the eyes of God, doomed to burn for an eternity in the everlasting fires of Gahanna." I was horrified, because I was attracted to boys. I prayed to God many times each day, begging God to make me 'Normal.' I did not want to be different. Days later, laying on my back in the backyard, staring up at the stars, I tired to make sense of it. I never asked to be this way, nobody did anything to make me this way, so God must have made me this way, so why would God hate me? It made no sense, it was irreconcilable, and in a flash my faith was shattered. I tired to kill myself the next afternoon by jumping off a freeway overpass, only to have some man grab my feet as I was going over.
We had no sex education in those days. I was autistic and very sheltered and isolated. I actually did not know what sex was until I was age 19, nor what homosexuality or Gay was. I did not even know what swear words meant. But by age 12 I knew that I was different from other boys and how I was different, because i was following around cute boys since age 11. I had already been in love with a boy named Anton Wild, but alas, he was an exchange student and had to go back to the UK. Just a day after I turned 13, I confessed to my Aunt, "I feel about boys the way I am supposed to feel about girls." She dismissed it as a phase boys go through.
After I graduated from a Merchant Marine Academy and going to sea for a living on supertanker ships, I came-out to my father, which was rather terrifying at the time. My father was a strict Catholic who went to church every single day. I was stunned to find out that he had no problem at all with my Homosexuality. He is the one who first to actively help me accept my homosexuality. He also pointed out that while what Jesus said is very important, what Jesus did 'not' say is also of importance. Some things Jesus brought up more than once, obviously believing them to be of importance, while he never once talked about homosexuality or same-sex sex, as witnessed by Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. My father challenged me to carefully read the New Testament from cover to cover, specifically looking for any mentions of homosexuality. He said that biblical scholars have been questioning the translations of Paul for hundreds of years, so you might want to do some research yourself.
I decided to start researching the issue of Homosexuality and Christianity. Christians said that the Bible condemned people like me to hell, so i decided that if Christians were going to use the Bible against me as a weapon of hate, I needed to know everything possible about it, to help me let go of depression, to be able to defend myself, and to help others who were like me. Catholics are masters of the art of guilt and shame for purposes of manipulation and control. It is not unusual for Catholics to feel guilt and shame over things where they actually have zero responsibility for whatever happened. I had lingering feelings of guilt and shame for being homosexual (Internalized Homophobia).
I not only studied the bible, I studied the history of the bible's creation, the history of Christianity and the history of the times of Jesus. I studied about the culture as well. I found out about a minister (Reverend Troy Perry) who founded a Gay Christian church called the MCC (Metropolitan Community Church) . I read the book that he wrote where he analyzed the translations and cultural aspects of homosexuality in the bible. The entire New Testament was written in Coptic Greek. This set me off on new research in translation problems from Coptic Greek, from the time when Jesus, the apostles and Paul lived, into Latin and the then the modern languages. I then branched out to study Buddhism, Islam and Native American Traditions, although I know a lot less about those faiths than I do about Christianity.
As the years have gone by, Bible Archeology has advanced considerably, along with our knowledge of the Judaea culture during the life of Jesus, and our knowledge of Coptic Greek. The problem is that most Christian churches are completely vested in a lie, and change will not come easily.
Please keep in mind that there is a big difference between Spirituality and Religion. Religion is more about people and meeting the needs of people, like a big exclusive club with thousands of special rules. Spirituality is all about you and your personal connection to God, or to your beliefs and values. For example, the Catholic church has thousands and thousands of rules that have no direct link to the teachings of Jesus Christ, such as Birth Control. A church makes up many rules to supposedly help guide on the best path to unity with god. There are people in organized crime who murder, steal, feed drugs to kids, engage in sexual slavery, etc, who go to church on a regular basis and give to charity. It is spirituality that matters on Judgment Day, not religion. It is your capacity to love and be compassionate, and to choose to be a good person as best you can that matters, not your religion.
That said, religion can offer many people the comforts of ritual, ceremony, routine, being a part of a group of people, and being told what to do and what no to do. But BEWARE, to join God, it takes a great deal more than obeying rules, doing good deeds and going to church, it requires a universal love for your fellow mankind, and a giving, compassionate and forgiving heart.
If I could not be a priest, I still wanted to help people. When I went into the Academy, I had a plan and a goal to graduate, go to sea, save and invest every penny I could, then retire in 10 years and devote my life to volunteer work. Well, it actually took almost 14 years, due to a husband who was an alcoholic, drug addict, and spendaholic. I retired for life at age 34, coming home from the sea for good. I went directly into volunteer work to care for those dying of AIDS, working in the Soup Kitchen, doing home care and then Primary daily care until each died. The University of Washington heard about my volunteer counseling on the Sexual Minority Community and invited me to their 'Peer Counseling' program for free, so that is how I became an official 'Volunteer Peer Counselor.' I have been doing full-time volunteer work going on some 26 years.
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I see, that's a really valuable information and I have to say I admire things about your work and life in general, I thank you greatly for all you've written and confirmed for me, without these deviations you wrote I'm not sure if I'd have had enough courage or argument to spread the word about homosexuality's reality, I will continue to research things as well and ask you anything if I need it
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You are very welcome. I thank you for your part in teaching tolerance, for being open-minded and for your willingness to question and seek answers.
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Chirst following Bisexual
and proud
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I hope you also saw New Testament + Homosexuality
The true Gospels of Jesus are the original Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John write in Coptic Greek. These Gospels, as well as the Letters Of Paul, were incorrectly translated into Latin and then into the modern languages. This created the LIE that Homosexuality isa sin. Homosexuality is NOT A SIN in the words of the Apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, the eyewitnesses to words of Jesus Christ, and homosexuality is NOT A SIN in the original words of Paul.
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I am Autistic and do not understand things like innuendo, indirect meanings or implied meanings, so I am afraid I do not understand what you are trying to tell me. Could you please clarify?
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i couldnt read all that. it was so long.
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I see. The deviation is meant to prove the mistranslations and misinterpretations of the new and old testaments. I can boil it down to a small size for Sexual Minority people, but then people demand detailed proof. Some Christian Sexual Minorities write to me when they feel a conflict between their Christian Faith and their Sexual Orientation. For them, I can usually sum it all up in one Note. But if they need to try to convince parents, then you need more detail and proof.
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Man created religion. Therefore, I became a deist. It's not a religion, and deists believe in God. I'm so happy I found a word for non-religious god-believing people. ^^ The whole point of religion was to teach people about HIM until man decided to make it into a drama. I'm all supportive about same-sex monogamous marriage!
By the way, I believe in Christ too. He loves us all equally. He can never get mad at us for our sin. We're all born into it and we can be risen from it.
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Thank you for your support. My father taught me that there is a big difference between Spirituality and Religion. Spirituality is all about your own belief system and religion is a group affair, like an exclusive club. I find that the practice of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and even Buddhism to be a corruption of the original teachings.
Jesus gave us two Great Commandments, to Love God and love your fellow mankind, saying that these are the basis of ALL of the law of the prophets (Old and New Testaments both). You do not need any other rules to live your life by. If you love your fellow mankind, you do not lie to them, steal, murder, etc. But human beings, in general, DEMAND rules, tradition and ceremony. People want to be told exactly what and what not to do, to get into the pearly gates of heaven.
Unfortunately for so many Christians, you can follow every rule and technically never sin, and even give money to charity, and never go to heaven. This is due to the requirement to Love your fellow mankind. The state of your soul is not so much about what you did right and wrong, it is about your intent, about giving of yourself for the benefit of others, of being a loving and compassionate human being. Rules are supposed to keep a person on a better path to heaven, but following rules does not get you there.
After the death of Christ, organized churches were formed and they battled each other constantly over theology. Then the Roman Emperor Constantine decided to use Christianity as a way of unifying his crumbling empire, since the Pagans were always fighting between themselves, over their different Gods. Constantine needed a single Christian church, so he called together all bishops of both the Western Church and the Eastern (Gnostics). This was called the First Council of Nicea, in AD325. Constantine wanted the patriarchal and centralized power system of the Western Church. The Holy Trinity and the Divinity of Christ were voted on. The Gnostics lost and any who refused to convert to the Western church were hunted down and murdered. The early church was a very bloody affair. With the fall of Gnostics came the fall of the role of women in the church. Women had equal roles in the Gnostic form of Christianity. Under the Western church, women were related to "Brides of Christ" and made totally subservient to men.
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I'm straight, but I don't mind if someone is homosexual. It's not something i am, & I have no business judging a homosexual on their orientation. I don't know what it's like exactly, but I agree. And don't insult people for their orientation, because it's biased since we don't know what's it like to be them. This is really well written by the way.
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Thank you for your support and understanding. Homosexuality is very easy to understand. We are exactly like you, except that we romantically love people of the same gender. Everything else is exactly the same. We want relationships and family, we want love, just like anyone else. Alas, there are some religious groups and by bigots who keep spreading lies about us, like saying we are child molesters. Yet statistically, Straight men molest children at a higher rate than homosexual men do.
It is great to hear from open-minded people like you.
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No problem and I don't really buy into those lies anyway.And yeah I know it's the same. You just love someone so much you want to be with them forever. It's so unfair how people judge others based on who they are and especially homosexuals. They're exactly like us, we're people. I know some really nice homosexuals and they're good friends of mine. I also have straight friends too and we're all perfectly fine with it.
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Our hope is that there will be more and more people like you.
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