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Nekromanda — Stamp: What if?
Published: 2012-05-14 02:25:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 10036; Favourites: 306; Downloads: 16
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"What if GOD* is the BAD guy?"*Referring to the God of the Bible
BibleGateway.com The Official King James Bible Online Bible Suite Online Parallel Bible The Thinking Atheist: List of Biblical Atrocities Secular Web: Bible Atrocities Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Cruelty and Violence in the Bible Videos
The Atheist Experience: Why does a loving God send people to Hell? Bg: [link]
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Comments: 934
Yeah I considered that too. Also notice satan's origin.
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Your pewdiepie avatar make's me want to murder you
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i cant be the only one seeing, god and the devil playing a chess game , a "game of life" if you will. they choose a certain person or amount of people to use as the pawns in the game. and just like in chess, a pawn will be deafeated =killed= .
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rather interesting thought
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It wouldn't be a surprise, really. It is usually the victor of war (e.g. God vs. the Devil) that rewrites "history" (I use that word loosely, of course). After all, God commanded Adam and Eve to obey his orders without question. Satan, on the other hand, at least introduced the concept of free will and morality to them. Better to be condemned for being a free man than being rewarded for being a slave.
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That's very very scary O.O I won't sleep tonight.
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Well for me, God is just something completely made up, I mean the bible was written hundreds of years ago, when we were in the dark ages and.. well, the god I know doesn't sound all that good because he sends people to burn in the pits of hell for all eternity. //shot// Sorry, I should NEVER joke about this type of thing on the internet should I? ;w;
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I have been thinking this more and more over the years.
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Well, how is God the bad guy here?
When God wanted to create the material world, he saw it as a good thing. There were, however, rebellious angels. One of them we all know as Lucifer. He was created to be the highest of all the angels. When God declared He would create man and the angels would serve them. Those who rebelled couldn't fathom the idea of themselves, creatures of higher creation, serving something lower. Therefore Lucifer said "I will not serve" and Michael came in declaring "Who is like God?" War broke out and the rebellious angels were cast out of heaven. Since Lucifer could not have any revenge towards God or attack Him directly, he lured Adam and Eve into sin as an act of revenge against God. He, in a sense, killed man because of his deep hatred for their creator. It's just like how someone who hates a king but could not throw stones at him would settle for an image of the king instead. Since we bear God's image and likeness, Satan hates us and desires to bring us all to ruin in this life and especially the next. This belief of the origin of Satan's rebellion was held by many theologians in the Catholic Church.
When Jesus came He died that we may have life with God. Life Satan tried to destroy. What better love than to die for someone you care about that they may live?
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God killed all of the Earth besides a family. Satan gave men mind, so they could think. God wanted them to be mind-slaves for him. Satan punishes bad people. God lets killers roam free. I think you get where I'm going, and excuse me if you've gotten way to many replies from this already.
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God's killed much more people than Satan has, just saying.
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Those people committed evil. Condemning God for acting out in justice is the same as condemning a judge for sentencing a murderer to death.
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I disagree. Take Exodus for example. How many innoscent people were tortured and murdered, including innoscent children, for the crimes of one man? God hardened the Pharao's heart, and the result was the death of many innoscent lives.
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James 1:13, “Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one.”
God didn't literally hardened Pharaoh's. God just allowed Pharaoh's stuborness to reach the maximum level. Pharaoh's hardness of heart was his own doing. When he first sent away Moses and Aaron nowhere does it say God motivated Pharaoh to punished the Israelites by forcing them to make bricks without straw. And I don't think you really read all of Exodus because the Egyptians were not innocent. They killed numerous infants by throwing them into the Nile to reduce the Israelites population because Pharaoh ordered them to (in fact America today does thing like that as well).
www.catholic.com/blog/trent-ho…
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That may be true, but the entire nation? The Pharao's ordered soldiers do that. What about the innoscent civillains? Farmers, smiths, Egypyian slaves, children? No entire nation is evil, and no nation deserves what happened to the Egyptians. Saying they did, is the same as saying all German citizens had to be Punished for the crimes of the Nazi's, or that all Muslims should be treated as second-class citizens because of what Bin Laden did.
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Because it was an entire nation that persecuted the Israelites. What happened to the Egyptians was nothing compared to what they did. You should also remember that before the events of Exodus back in Genesis God promised Abraham he would not destroy the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah if he found only ten righteous people in them. Just ten righteous people and God couldn't even find that many.
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Be sure to tell all the people, innocent people, who die in natural disasters every year, or perhaps the victims of various terrorist attacks, perpetrated often by a different flavour what is ultimately the same concept: God.
But no, all those people were evil! Don't you see?! Random Japanese people deserve to be hit by a tsunami, earthquake AND a nuclear failure all in one fell swoop!
Either the entire of Fukushima is populated with people who like to eat babies and burn each other, God likes to mercy kill starving people in developing countries with painful and torturous diseases, or God is indeed an evil and twisted individual, whom of which is in as much utter and complete denial about his own malevolence as are his followers.
Of course, one of the guys there might have flirted with another man, and so disproportionate punishment follow forth! ...According to Christianity at least. Though they're not the only flavour of God to have issues with such people, according to the mortal written books about them.
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Ok, that is a poor argument because you just said it yourself, those were natural disasters. Job was innocent but bad things still happened to him anyway. How could you possibly know whether or not those were a punishment from God? I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth.
The irony of all this is, while the atheists are too busy using the suffering of innocent as an excuse to deny God's existence or even portray Him as bad, the Christians (Catholics especially) are the ones working to care for them.
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Oh for goodness sake. Natural disasters. Nature is a thing, who made everything? EVERY. Single. Thing. Bare in mind, said God decided to flood the world; a flood IS a natural disaster, suggesting God can control nature, suggesting God can control natural disasters, suggesting God did it, suggesting God is a dick-head.
As for your second point, that comment suggests that Christians were the only ones who did anything, or that Atheists just sat around with their fingers up their backsides or just start whining about things. Maybe they do, but unless you want to conduct a census of everyone who gave time or hours into helping for their religious views, you have no real proof of who did what. Call me cynical, but I don't believing asking God for help through prayer can count as helping; some of the religious people who claimed to help might have only done that, but THAT doesn't help, why? Because if the religious people were actually wrong, and there was no god, all they've done is sit in a room and speak to nothing.
This brings me onto a point I failed to raise before. Why DO Religious people do good things, when they do good things? Many times, it is because the bible might dictate it. There is a lot to suggest that many, maybe not all, but a worrying large proportion of people might only do good for rewards after death. It's not always going to be off their own steam. Additionally, how many religious people donate money to anything that isn't through a church, which is basically donating money to church.
On the other side of the argument, why do non-religious people do good things? They don't read bibles or religious scripts, and don't listen to them when they dictate that one must do good things. Not all atheists do good things, but neither do all religious people. The thing is though, religious people are supposed to, am I right? And yet they're not struck by lightning.
I'm sure you'll have something to say about this. And I'm sure I'll have some means of countering it. Hopefully you won't use arguments which religious people have already used, since they're often proved to be meaningless or impossible to provide evidence to.
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I agree with you
And you know what? I've heard of a case a few years ago when a girl was REALLY sick. Did her parents decide to take her to a doctor to figure out her diagnosis and prescribe her with a medication that could save her life? Nope. They just PRAYED for her to get better, and now they're serving in prison for murder, for not allowing their daughter to get help.
I once read that prayer was like masturbation: feels great to the person doing it, but does NOTHING to/for the person being thought of.
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I'd heard about that case. It was pretty appalling.
If there was a god, and a god which gave a shit, in cases like that, said god would actually DO something. Unless:
- Said god doesn't want to.
- Said God is unable to.
If either of these options are the case, even if a god was to exist, there would be no point worshipping it, because it'd either be evil, or powerless.
So, if you ignore the real-life implications of only praying for things, if a god was incapable or malevolent, there is no point praying to it; if there is no god, there is still no reason to pray to it; both outcomes have the same results, or lack thereof.
Either way. I'm glad you agree. 
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Oh, and get this, my parents thanked HIM for their new house and for the birth of my newest baby brother, even though
A) They had enough money to begin with
B) Mom was completely healthy when she had the child.
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Well, I'm not entirely sure what to say to that... ...It's kinda stupid I suppose. The nursery story of the Little Red Hen comes to mind when I think of a divine entity's demand for worship. A god does nothing at all, and expects thanks for it when people ACTUALLY do something.
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I never thought of it that way.
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OH yeah, I forgot: He gave Satan permission to kill Job's family. Did they do anything wrong?
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So...God, the all knowing one, should've known that Lucifer would rebel and Adam and Eve would be lured to sin.
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....What if none of that happened?
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Then you wouldn't exist. And it's not God who sends people to hell. People send themselves there.
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I always imagined that both God and the Devil to be like us--not all good, and not all bad. I imagine they have a bit of both in them, and that they just happen to rule over the aspects of good and evil, each understanding that there must be both in the world, since too much of one is a bad thing.
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This is something I've always wondered, to be honest. I mean, he got pissed when Adam and Eve were enlightened, he flooded the earth and killed almost everyone because he didn't get the results he wanted, he approves of rape and slavery, and goes out of his way to justify certain murders. And let's not forget how he sends people to an eternal torture chamber for not surrendering their free will to him. Our hero, ladies and gentlemen!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHoBpR... If you listen to this song and look at the lyrics, it sounds like it would be the perfect theme for the Judeo-Christian god, just change a few words here and there.
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Strawman argument based in nearly nothing.
Read Jonah.
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Doing one or two good deeds when you've done a lot of nasty ones doesn't keep you from being an irredeemable monster. Hitler absolutely loved animals and was big on animal rights, but that doesn't excuse him for the atrocities he committed, does it?
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A repeat of the same Strawman argument based in nearly nothing. I'm not Hitler.
Read Jonah.
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I never said you were.
What I meant is that despite the fact that god was willing to spare Nineveh, and even was willing to punish Jonah for turning his back on it, it doesn't excuse him from killing all of Egypt's firstborn children just to prove a point to Pharaoh, messing with Abraham and making him think that he had to kill his own child, outright advocating for men to rape women from cities they conquer and the like.
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"I never said you were."
Then don't use Hitler as an example.
"What I meant is that despite the fact that god was willing to spare Nineveh, and even was willing to punish Jonah for turning his back on it, it doesn't excuse him from killing all of Egypt's firstborn children just to prove a point to Pharaoh, messing with Abraham and making him think that he had to kill his own child, outright advocating for men to rape women from cities they conquer and the like."
Egypt had already murdered some of the people God said not to mess with. 'Messing with Abraham' was a test of loyalty: Abraham was willing to kill his son, God wasn't, and made sure he didn't. The rape thing is false: look at what the Bible actually said, instead of parroting verses taken out of context.
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Just because adults in Egypt did bad things doesn't mean that God is justified in slaughtering babies, though. And whether or not he would have killed the baby, it's a cruel way to get someone's loyalty for a "loving god". And the Hitler comparison was directed to God, not you.
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"Just because adults in Egypt did bad things doesn't mean that God is justified in slaughtering babies, though."
God: "If you will not release my firstborn, I shall take yours."
God's message o Ninevah was essentially the same. Egypt didn't listen. Ninevah did.
"And whether or not he would have killed the baby, it's a cruel way to get someone's loyalty for a "loving god". "
And the Hitler comparison was still false. Hitler wanted to kill every single non-Nazi in existence, whether or not you were a good person.
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I'm sorry, but declaring one group (The Jews, if I remember correctly) as his favored group, casting all who don't believe in him or follow his ideologies into what is pretty much an eternal torture chamber reminds me a liiiiittle too much of a certain fuhrer.
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Ninevah was not full of Jews, and the Egyptians that decided to follow God were declared to be Jews.
Jew isn't a race: it's a status.
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That's true. What I meant is that he will only accept people of a certain status, not race. Pardon my ignorance in that matter.
But still, the ultimate thing that turns me off about God is the fact that he'll send you to hell for the simplest things like not believing in him or following his orders to a T. That's what scared me away from Christianity, the thought of this evil entity that will toss you into eternal torture for the simplest thing. All the other things only strengthened my mindset.
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" But still, the ultimate thing that turns me off about God is the fact that he'll send you to hell for the simplest things like not believing in him or following his orders to a T."
Again false. He wants for people to become friendly neighbors: look at what his orders really tell you to do. The Ten commandments for example. Jesus said that "Love the Lord your God" and :Love your neighbor as yourself" are the most important commandments. And God didn't send Moses or David to hell for their mistakes. (they made BIG mistakes)
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