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Nintrendodude — he didnt save them
Published: 2018-12-09 20:52:20 +0000 UTC; Views: 8397; Favourites: 54; Downloads: 0
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-antoine had a metal sonic self-destruct right in his face, putting him into a coma, only for flynn to confirm in the lost hedgehog tales that antoine was gonna die: twitter.com/Alex_Hedgefox2/sta…-sally was robotisized, turning her into mecha sally, but eggman took this a step further by weaponizing her and taking out all of the initial robotisized parts and replacing them with regular robot parts, meaning sally couldnt be turned back to normal cuz the initial parts that used to be organic no longer exist, leaving her to be a robotic corpse cuz you cant derobotisize something that was never organic: youtu.be/s3J7yCKiLvs?t=1209 &youtu.be/Hn6YW5bkbIA?t=603
-rotor broke his back saving tails from being crushed by rubble when snively attacked their underground base, leaving him no longer capable of fighting on the team leaving him as a member of the knothole council
-bunnie was derobotisized by Naugus' ixin magic, leaving her unable to help the freedom fighters due to not standing a chance without her robotics
-nicole was ostrasized by new mobotropolis cuz mina mongooze had a nightmare about iron nicole and had the entire kingdom scared of her and wanted her gone
now before any of you say "but they appeared in the reboot so he didnt kill them", youre right, but the only reason why the freedom fighters were in the reboot was because of contractual obligation. meaning the only reason why they were in the reboot was because the original contract between sega and archie all the way back in the 90s, was about the dic cartoons, so the freedom fighters as well as other charaters like lupe, snively, scratch grounder and coconuts, etc. made it into the reboot was because they were grandfathered in from those original contracts.
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Comments: 147
its called adversity and in doing so would have made them more plus antione wasnt dead just might need surgery.
but yeah sega of japan needs to know where not going anywhere
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More what?
It was confirmed by ian, antoine was slated to die.
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well at least archie will go broke as without sonic they are in deep and its only a mattter of time
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What I mean to say is, even if Flynn's machinations caused Archie's key characters to fall into oblivion, there's still a way past him, back to prosperity.
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Well, that's up to the fans as a whole.
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What else to you expect in case you didn't note he does this to every hero character the only reason the game cased usually gets away scoot free is because Sega simply isn't allowing them to have permanent lost only there are allowed to completely fuck them up and no one else.
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Sorry mate Flynn is a screw up but this over-attachment in the Sonic fandom is fucking annoying. The Freedom Fighters are fine as a collection of cool characters but you can find something else to not like about the Flynn that isn't as objective as this as it feels like sometimes you are on the right track with calling out certain things but you dip right back into petty territory and point fingers at him for the sake of sneering at him because you don't like him. I don't see why this post even need to be made as it's more of projecting a personal grievance as if it were a major problem and this goes for anyone who keeps whining about the Freedom Fighters not being in the newer comic.
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What do you want him to do?Make the Freedom Fighters invincible or make it so nothing bad ever happens to them?You need to grow up.
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There's a Difference between making them take a beating, and Then there is taking a Big Honking Mallet and Bashing their bodies to Bits.
That is what he put them through. If he wanted Conflict, Why not put Tails through the same thing the Freedom Fighters did? Why not Knuckles? Why not SONIC? There is more impact if the 'Big Three' went through such crap, but they don't, So your Argument is rather flawed.
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It still could've been worse.And the Freedom Fighters almost fully recovered,so at least there's that.
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Only because of the maximum worse case, the Genesis Wave Machine, rewrote everything.
And that THING was basically a Diabolus Ex Machina in object form. Everything was rewritten, and yet, IDW did sloppy Work trying to 'Intergrate' The characters back in. There was no emotional impact to realizing that their old World, and all their friends, are Gone.
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It kind of reminds me of the ridiculous statement Gene Roddenberry has been attributed as making in regard to the Star Trek TNG characters: "There is no conflict between the cast, Earth is a paradise, all the problems we had are solved. Now go write drama". It misses the point that drama can only come from the comedy of human error, and conflict between characters over certain ideals or opinions. One can argue that the means to accomplish this could be done differently, but saying that a writer doesn't like the characters or want to do them justice because they put the characters through the wringer, once in a while, and refusing to acknowledge the times when they have those characters rise above that and come out ahead in their own right, despite that wringer-running, is ridiculous and shows obvious fanboyism that is so blindly delusional it's dangerous.
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I bet you're using deviantart mobile,cause you probably didn't mean to reply to my comment.
I noticed people who use DA mobile tend to do that.
Regardless I agree with you. :3
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No, I specifically responded to your comment, but thanks for agreeing with me.
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Ugh, another anti-Flynn, "Save the Freedom Fighters, they're the best part of the franchise!" rant. Seriously, can we please get over this? I like the Freedom Fighters, too, and I'll admit there's certain things about Flynn's writing in the original that I disliked, but that's comics for you, it's an ever-changing thing that likely was done more so at the insistence of the editors than the actual writers (look at One More Day, the Clone Saga, Batman's recent wedding, etc.). I really doubt that, if Flynn didn't want them to be in the comics, that they would've been in the New 252 universe. And saying that the recoveries of the other characters to their prime doesn't count due to semantics is grossly missing the point; Ian could've easily left the Nanite Suit as a one-and-done thing, and Rotor would've been shoved back into the background with no development, whatsoever, but the fans loved it, so he agreed to return him to duty, even if it's through the Nanite Suit (and frankly, I LIKE the nanite suit, because of how cool it is). Don't assume that the writer hates everything, because they do horrible things to the characters, because it's likely due to an editorial mandate that it happened, and don't assume their attempts to fix it is null and void because of the initial desecration, because again, editorial mandate forced them to do it, most likely, and they want to make amends. If that was the case - that the writers should not be forgiven for a bad thing they did to a character after they tried to retcon it away - then several stories in other comics shouldn't be accepted, either. Perhaps it's you who should let it go and let the Freedom Fighters die.
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The issue isn't the lack of Freedom Fighters or what they've been through has been rough. The issue is Flynn presents himself as a "Vox Populi" figure to the community when the reality is that he's only used to write stories that he wants. He writes characters the way he wants them to be instead of how they are.
Don't you at least find it odd that Flynn once said he "Fought tooth and nail" to keep the Freedom Fighters in Archie but when IDW comes along he just shrugs and states "It's out of his control?" without even trying. For someone who seemed to be passionate about them his attitude sure changed with the new publisher.
I get that you want the IDW comic to succeed and you may enjoy Flynn's writing. No one should criticize you for possessing such an opinion and I won't do it here. As I stated the issue is Flynn saying one thing but then doing the opposite.
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As I said, I think that the Freedom Fighters are way too intrinsically linked - both in fandom's minds and in legal terms - with Archie Sonic to be easily ported over to the IDW series, especially since they said that the focus was to make characters that "would believably fit into the games as well as the comics", and the FF just have too much baggage with their time in Archie to be believable in that state. They'd require a huge rewrite and overhaul to make them fit into the IDW universe, with how it's going, right now, and that would upset fans much more than not having them in there, at all.
And believe me, I know all about Flynn's flip-flopping behavior; I'm still pissed at him for killing off Rotor's relationship with Cobar (by killing the latter) and then saying that his love life "was of no consequence", then not only fight to keep Antoine and Bunnie married in the reboot, but also said after the comic was canceled that he wanted Sally and Nicole to have a lesbian relationship with each other (which is basically what people accused Penders of doing with Rotor's gay reveal: making crap up after he was taken off of the book to make himself seem more "inclusive"). If I liken Penders to Gene Roddenberry as a writer and creator, then I liken Flynn to Russell T. Davies: just as the first comparison is apt due to them being good worldbuilders but not great writers and obsessive on what their vision for the franchise should be, the latter is apt due to how they're decent at damage control and making tools to fit situations (like characters), but isn't great at giving what the fans want and likes to go off on his own tangent with his work.
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You say that but honestly Ian could include them with little trouble. The group he could introduce as a single unit of the Resistance who kept the fight going and created a nickname for themselves. Sally could still be the brains of the outfit and perhaps her first arc with the group is helping retake her kingdom and a greater arc is finding her father. Antoine could be part of her royal guard alongside Rotor. Bunnie could have been a victim to Eggman's test of Robotization. We did see Tails undergo a similar process in Lost World so perhaps Eggman modified his badnik production to include mobians. Yeah they'd need to ditch most of their cartoon and comic baggage but if Ian were willing (and we both no he isnt) he could fit them in with little issue.
I'm not one of those that are demanding their inclusion despite saying this. From what I hear the sales arent doing too good for the comic and I think it'll be lucky to last another two years
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I really doubt it'll be that simple, and fans being fans, they'll complain about it regardless. You're basically describing them being the same as they were in the Archie comic, which doesn't really work in the new comic, especially since they're following the game continuity, and we've already seen every country in Unleashed; there's no real room for the Kingdom of Acorn, there.
Also, Eggman in the new comics and the games doesn't do Roboticization, he does badnik conversion, which is a totally different process, stuffing non-humanoid animals into premade robots to act as power sources, not actually converting them to robots themselves. The Lost World example you gave was specifically a farce to fool Eggman and the Deadly Six, not something that was actually done to him by the bad guys. So Bunnie would need a totally different origin from SatAM/Archie to fit into the continuity of IDW Sonic.
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Dude. Its roboticization. They may not refer to it by name but that's the process none the less. And it would make sense for the zeti to turn Tails into a robot/cyborg since they can control technology like Eggman's robots. Yes it's unexplained how and why they possess the ability but thats a different subject. And what do you mean there's "no room" for the Acorn kingdom? Most of the games just have generic level locations with no actual mapped location. Yes I know Unleashed had contries but youre only visiting one town out from said country of who knows how many. Forces also had a map but you visited a certain location several times. Too say there's no room for one kingdom is like saying there's no more room for Sonic's friends list.
Yes I understand fans will be upset but here's the thing; If you stay true to the spirit of the characters regardless if they have a new backstory then there should be little issue. This is what Ian failed to do when he rebooted them. He turned the characters into what he wanted rather than how they're suppose to be. He even does this now with Amy being a strategist for the "Resistence". Before you respond with some excuse about how Forces gave her "training" for such a role let me clarify that isnt my point. My point is prior and after Forces does Amy, as a character, give the impression she's a tactician? Is she someone who you turn to for planning strategies? No she isnt and that's the issue.
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No, Roboticization and Badnikization are two totally different processes: the latter involves using animals as batteries for otherwise normal machines, the former involves converting the animals - either in part or in whole - INTO machines. The latter, as we see in the games, has the animals being otherwise unharmed inside the badniks and can be freed by destroying the machine they're powering; the former, as we see in the Archie comics and SatAM, is basically replacing organic parts with machinery, and cannot be as easily undone, once it's happened; it's why Legionization is considered to be a fate almost as bad as Roboticization in the latter games.
Second of all, it's greatly implied in Unleashed that each part of the world you went to was its own ruling body with its own political party; you could argue about Soleana, but Sonic 06 is more or less out of continuity, even in the twisted faux continuity of Sonic. And saying "Forces has a map but you visited one location more than the others" is meaningless, because that location is the central part of Eggman's global empire, at that point; it would make sense to keep hammering that place more often than the others.
Finally, as I said, what you described was how Flynn could "reboot" them into the new comic was basically THE EXACT DAMN BACKSTORY THEY HAD IN SATAM/ARCHIE SONIC. There was NO difference; Sally was still a princess, Rotor a technician, Antoine a royal guard member, Bunnie a victim of Eggman's experiments... everything's the same! And that's why they can't easily fit into the comic, because the way fans want them to be is too much like Archie Sonic to fit into a Sonic comic as different in tone and story as IDW. You might as well argue that they should be shoved into Fleetway Sonic without change, and say "It's a new version of them!"
As for Amy, he's following what his role was in Forces, and Forces WAS NOT WRITTEN BY HIM. Again, you're assigning stupid blame on character changes to him when he has NOTHING to do with it. THAT is fanboy rose-tinted blindness, and that is something I cannot stand, and why I'm ready to chuck the entire Sonic community out of the Ark airlock into the freaking Sun.
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I'm starting to get the impression you aren't paying attention to my point and are just shifting the goal post for every time I try to explain it. I can concede that yes, there is a difference in the production between making a badnik and a robian but you can see the clear intent with Tails' transformation in Lost World. Whether they refer to it by name or not is irrelevant.
Second, my point about the freedom fighters is more about taking what they are known for but altering them to be independent from Sonic. I know I've failed to word it correctly till now but that's what I've been trying to press with. I'll take responsibility for not wording myself correct but my point remains that it is possible for them to be added with little change required. The only character that would be complicated is Nicole but I think rebooting her origins once more wouldnt be an issue. A follow up point is that what I've suggested has been proven with franchises like the Transformers. They reinvent their characters every show but manage to keep the same core notes while providing alterations that dont mess with the central idea.
Third, Ian did assign Amy as a tactician as he wrote in the script for her to say "Knuckles may have led the Resistance but who do you think kept things running?" Now I would be forgiving of this if there weren't already characters who are better suited to the task like Rouge, Tails, or Espio. In the game Amy was just a communications officer, someone to report updates and missions. And you missed my point entirely. At no point was Amy conceived to be a character with tactical insight in any situation. The story for Forces does not change this. Amy is meant to be a pink hedgehog who wields a hammer and chases after Sonic for affection. At no point did Sega ever add to her character profile hat she was an expert strategist.
Look, dude. I used to be in your shoes thinking "oh its there if you look close enough" but here's the truth: you're becoming a white knight from people being able to criticize what they want. Now you haven't out right stated anything along those lines directly but that's the attitude I get from you. I'm not someone that hates Flynn but I hate it when people like myself have actual criticisms of a medium are told to be quiet and just buy the work regardless of personal opinion. You say I'm blinded by "fanboyism" but all I've be trying to point out is the demand for consistency and some depth of explaining Sonic's world and franchise. I'm asking questions but you're telling me to be quiet because you don't like those questions. I'm not going to argue further with someone that fails to listen time and again the point I'm trying to make. Let's just leave this as an agreement to disagree.
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Again, you refer to what happened to Tails, failing to understand that it was FAKE; HE did it to himself to fool the Zeti and Eggman, and he was NEVER converted, in the first place. Seriously, how the hell do you miss a blatant plot point like that in your argument?
Second, you don't know what they're going to be doing to the Sonic IDW franchise, but everything I've seen (and yes, I've read all of the comics for it, so far), blatantly shows that they CANNOT be put in WITHOUT major changes - changes that you and others like you clearly are in no mood to accept. Better that they NOT be in it than for you guys to bitch at him for doing them "wrong", because we both know that'll happen, regardless. Hell, they clearly state that their intent with new characters was to make it "believable that they could fit into the games", and NOTHING about the Freedom Fighters from Archie shows that; we've already had a failed attempt at a princess, they don't need a tactician anymore with the main cast set as Central Command, Antoine as the "royal guard" makes NO sense in this continuity (mainly because of the failed princess thing), etc. They'd HAVE to make major changes to the character to make them believable in a game setting, and if they did that, fans WILL complain, so no, I'm sorry, but you're wrong with that.
Finally, if that was all she was good for, having a hammer and chasing Sonic, then why would she even be useful in Knuckles' resistance? Answer me THAT. And what's so bad with Flynn expanding her responsibilities in the comics that are BASED ON THE GAME?! What, do you want her to be stereotyped as the stupid clingy girl, all the time?
I'm not telling you to shut up, because I don't like your personal opinions, I'm telling you to shut up because they're based on faulty premises and shaky logic that are reliant on fanboyism to justify. You point out the thing with the Gaia Temples, even after I pointed out why that's wrong; you mentioned Tails' "conversion" as an example of how Bunnie could be in the comic, COMPLETELY IGNORING ME when I point out that it wasn't even real in-game; you whine about character growth as being "Flynn doing his own thing", when it's really just expansions of the roles they were in in the game the comic is based on. In essence, you don't want consistency, you want it done the Ken Penders way, the Archie way, ignoring that THIS ISN'T THEM. I'm sick of it, and I'm done with this whole argument. Good day, and good riddance.
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Fine. Delusional as you are, I'll leave. I refuse to argue with a brick wall.
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The Freedom Fighters (Including Sally Acorn) are Legends, buddy. And Legends never die. Legends are like Energy. And even Energy never dies. You can forget them all you want, you can bash them all you, you can say you want them dead all you want, at the end of the day, Evil never wins and Good never loses. Someone WILL find a way to bring them back and keep them alive for generations to come. I don't know how and I don't know when, But Someone WILL eventually find a way to bring them back and keep them alive for generations to come.
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I wouldn't mind seeing them return to the IDW comic, but if they don't, I'm not going to cry; I feel that, for all intents and purposes, they're too ingrained in people's minds with Archie to really be brought back in another franchise, because of fanboy ranting like this. Will the Freedom Fighters be the same in IDW as they were in Archie? Hell no, and they likely would be better for it, but people recognize them too much as Archie characters, and as such, the fandom will always compare any attempts to revamp them in other franchises to that comic, like tablets will always be compared to the iPad, despite being its own thing, or how anything that's moderately difficult in gaming is suddenly compared to Dark Souls by reviewers, even if they're nothing alike. It's that kneejerk comparison that I feel needs to die.
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*Sigh* This is why I do fan projects, homie. I DON'T belong at BS Cooperate Companies like IDW, etc. I DO belong in the world of Fan Fiction. And with Fan Fiction, I can do whatever the hell I want. In fact, I'm working on a Fan Fiction of my own. It's a Trilogy of Crossover Graphic Novels featuring characters from The DC Universe & Sonic Universe (And yes, Characters from SatAM, Archie, IDW, Fleetway, etc. will be in the Trilogy of Crossover Graphic Novels as well). I actually wrote a Treatment for the 1st Crossover Story and while it's pretty good I just need to trim some of the fat on it (If you know what I'm talking about). So I'm doing a 2nd Draft on it so I can make it as Good as Possible.
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I wasn't pointing the finger at you when I maid the fanboy comment, more at the OP. I'll admit, I do make my own fan stuff, myself, and they do include the Freedom Fighters, but unlike the OP, I'm not calling for the lynching of Ian Flynn for what he's done to them, or petitioning for their return exactly how they were in the early Archie comics. I've got my beefs with all of the Sonic writers, of that era, but I recognize that it's over and done with, and much of what fans whine about is misblamed on the writers when it wasn't in their control. They'll be alive int he world of Fan Fiction, and I'm among those keeping it alive, but I'm so sick of people trying to force the official content to go back to the "good old days", like it's the be-all, end-all of Sonic. It's fans like the OP that make me want to chuck the franchise into the "only good for porn" bin of my interests, not fans like you, who are more like "Yeah, we had our run, and we can keep it alive through fan projects, but officially that time is over, and it's the fans that will carry the torch, from now on", and not "Archie Sonic was the only thing good about non-game Sonic content and everyone needs to follow it to the letter and in this way only, or it defiles Sonic entirely".
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Um... Uh... Okay then.
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To clarify, I don't mind fans keeping the Freedom Fighters alive in fan projects, and if they bring them back in IDW, I'm okay with that, but I feel that, just as a lot of Sonic game fans scream that Sonic was only good in the Genesis era and it needs to go back to that, or it'll suck regardless, too many fans of Archie Sonic scream that Penders' version is the only good version of the comics and needs to go back to that, or it's disrespecting Sonic in some manner. That's why I say the Freedom Fighters feel too intrinsically linked to Archie Sonic to be able to be brought over to another version of the comic and still satisfy fans, because of that belief. If you want to explore more of Archie Sonic through fan works, fine, go ahead, I'll do the same in my own way, but that era has passed for the official content, and needs to be accepted as past for people to really move on and give real gravitas to their visions of the characters.
One thing I've barely seen any fan works of, from what I've been able to research, is non-game or Archie Sonic fan works; I've seen some Sonic X stuff, and a smattering of Sonic Underground stuff, but nothing for Sonic SatAM, nothing for New 252 Sonic (it's always pre-Flynn Archie), etc. It always baffles me; where are the fans of those other projects? Why aren't they out there representing themselves? I even made a journal lamenting how people don't talk about SatAM Rotor when they talk about their love of the character, and on another Sonic board I questioned where the Teitelbaum books fit into things, since they're retellings of SatAM in a way. Like you with your multi-crossover, I'd like more people to explore more of those worlds, and not be "Archie Sonic Penders Edition is the only right Sonic story".
On that note, I'm still debating on how to approach a fanfic of New 252 Rotor and Big before Sonic gave the former his memories back, and trying to encourage Mega Man fan hackers to make one for the Worlds Collide series with the Roboticized Masters. That latter one I think would be so awesome, but I've never heard of anyone even hinting at entertaining the idea, which is sad.
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I see. Well, The thing is, is that I've always wanted to do a Sonic/DC Crossover Story ever since November of 2016 and ever since Sonic showed up in Lego Dimensions (Which also featured characters from The DC Universe). At 1st, the Crossover idea started off as a joke and this what if Idea I had in my head which was "What if Superman's ship had crashed landed on Mobius and he was raised by Mobains and became a childhood friend of Sonic, etc.?". But as time moved on, it became something more. At 1st it was gonna be an Audio Drama Maxi Series, then a Trilogy of Stage Plays featuring Analogue Characters based on The DC & Sonic Characters, then a Duology of 12 Issue Maxi Series' that I wanted to ACTUALLY pitch to DC & IDW, then a Fan/Web Comic Series, to finally becoming a Trilogy of Graphic Novels that I DO intend to turn into Feature Length Fan Films after ALL 3 Graphic Novels are complete.
Originally, I wanted The 3 Crossover Stories to be Team Books and feature Thousands upon Millions of Sonic & DC Characters. However, because I'm not ready to write stories featuring Thousands upon Millions of Characters, I decided to cut it down to my personal favorite characters (In this case; Sonic, Sally, Knuckles, Superman, & The Flash (Barry Allen)) since it's more easier for me to do, etc.
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From what I remember, wasnt Bunnie going to run off to her uncle Beauregard (who sided with eggman for anyone unaware) to be legionized which would have Bunnie herself vulnerable to Eggman's control.
Also Ian was going to split the group again in the reboot after the Unleashed arc.
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Yeah, i keep hearing about that, but i dont count anything that wasnt actually in the comics, so no LHT junk
Yeah, im aware, cuz ian cant bare the thought of leaving the team together. The sega cast has to leave the SatAM cast behind
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Yeah. He's made that intent clear.
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Cuz thats what he wanted ever since he got the job at archie
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Yup. "Less Satam and more game-inspired" or as I like to put it "Less original, more product placement". Honestly with that approach he's already screwed himself given the games having massive plot holes.
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The comics currently have a massive gaping plothole being set in the games.
And it all has to do with Neo Metal Sonic. Wanna know what it is?
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I've read. He wants to continue Eggman's objective in conquering the world but was unable to participate in the actual war to undergo an overhaul (why Eggman would remake him in his Neo form I dont understand). He occupies the Master Emerald shrine, copies Sonic and Shadow's data (again) and turns into Metal Overlord (again). Meanwhile an amnesiac Eggman gets kidnapped by (totally not) Sleet and Dingo to meet (totally not) Dr. Finitevus who wants Eggman to resume his plans of conquest.
Oh and after Neo's revealed to be the main villain he drops the whole "disguise" part of his plan because of bad writing.
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You are correct on those, but the plothole i was referring to was with Neo's inclusion entirely.
Cuz its explained that neo is the same neo from sonic heroes.
And who was the last person to have metal before heroes ended? Omega!
And what is omega's primary objective? To eliminate all eggman robots!!
And what is metal sonic??? AN EGGMAN ROBOT!!!
Plus eggman was too busy being chased off by the Chaotix to retrieve metal.
Not only that but this was before Omega was considered a g.u.n agent so omega more likely than no jumped ship with omega and probably blew it up for target practice.
But flynn fans are quick to tell me that metal wasnt destroyed by omega cuz he appears in future games.
But most of them can be chalked up as non canon.
Sonic 4 doesnt count cuz it takes place before heroed
Sonic Rivals doesnt count cuz it was never released in japan
Sonic Free Riders doesnt count cuz the riders series is likely in another universe or in the future
Sonic Generations doesnt count cuz its classic metal sonic pulled from the events of sonic cd which is before heroes
Sonic Mania doesnt count cuz its another dimension/timeline
Sonic Forces doesnt count cuz metal is an illusion
Boom obviously doesnt count cuz its another dimension
And spinoffs like all-stars or olympifs dont count cuz theyre party games.
The metal sonic from heroes has not had a canon appearance since heroes.
And since IDW-Sonic takes place in the games timeline according to ian flynn, aaron webber, and takashi iizuka, how the hell did eggman get neo back?
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That is a good question
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