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Omnipotrent — Unlikely band: Bleeding Effect
Published: 2013-12-28 20:34:18 +0000 UTC; Views: 5989; Favourites: 122; Downloads: 0
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Jason Todd has pursued the assassin Red X deep into Umbrella's new facility where they are boosting the effect of of the Animus Machine. Jason goes after Red X after fleeing a scene where he could've killed Hit-girl but didn't. He finds him in a simulation buffer and talks him down from going further into his psyche, convinced he can still come back from where he was.
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Comments: 405
Hmmm true that....still the tension would be good, so maybe she wouldn't join, but we'd see her question it.
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Him wanting Joker dead would make sense, I mean, obviously, but who in the LIGHT should he be ultimately trying to take down? Savage? Ras?
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All of them just to prove a point.
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To prove he could (without Bruce/Bruces way of doing things)
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And maybe do some damage to the Bat-fam along the way.
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HA, Stephanie's insert rectified!
Also possibly Barbara getting shot and losing her legs by Joker?
Jason Todd using that as a pulpit to shout down Dick and Bruce about why their foes need die.
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While I would LOVE to see Oracle in YJ, I don't think Jason needs to use Babs as a reference as to why Joker needs to die. I think he himself is a good enough reason.
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Truth, i'm just saying that could be a good unrelated incident that does shake up the group and bat family...and right around the time when they were preaching that the straight and bloodless path was the best, Jason would totally soap box his view after something like that, i'm not saying that's where he starts, i'm saying that's when his side of the argument starts looking good, and theirs sucks.
Particularly if we have Barb and Artimus as friends established early on, so that way she's lost Wally, and now almost lost Barbara.)
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What should the LIGHT be utilizing Joker to do?
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They utilized him in season one... sorta.
I think they'd only come to him for help in order to get rid of Batman.
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Hmmmm if they took this Joker, (From Under Red Hood) and basically said "Resources, your squad, you're rules...get rid of batman, nigh, the bat FAMILY , they're who we're most worried about."
You got a scary premise right there
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Indeed. Which would make perfect for Jason to step in and cause even more chaos.
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You know the scene where Joker tackles batman before defusing the bomb Jason set off in the movie yelling "NO NO WAIT THIS IS BETTER!"
I want that joker to do that to Vandal Savage
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And I mean something where Vandal (being smart after all) foils an attempt of Joker's to double cross him saying "Did you honestly think I was foolish enough to underestimate your insanity?" *insert his boot on Joker's head*
Joker:"-cough- Yeah...thing is....even people who don't underestimate me....I get them too..."
-does a thing that turns plan on it's head-
Klarian:"...I actually like the way this is going..."
Joker:"Side note, that little guy gets it!"
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I'd also love it if after the moment where Jason ultimately abandons his team essentially by tunnel visioning in destroy joker and the Light , for Arsenal to pick Jason off the ground with his arm, yelling at him for abandoning them like that and that they all almost died.
And Jason says smirking "Funny , your sounding just like the losers...to quote you, that you left...."
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Arsenal in this show would have no right to yell at Jason. The foo' nearly sent his entire team into the void of space.
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Exactly, and good ol "twist the knife" Jason would rub that in his face.
Probably after being dropped, laugh at him saying "Go ahead and walk away, I told you I'd find out that one thing you're good at."
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...What would Joker do hat would be the table flip hirajima catastrophe that would take out both the Light and the Heroes at the end?
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I dunno. But that's why I leave Joker to the pros.
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...given it's not the pros who handled him in YJ but yes, the pros
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Well, they were pros but not the pros for Joker. Joker is hard to get right.
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Truth, opinion of the Joker in THE BATMAN?
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For not being Mark Hamil's joker in TAS, I liked how they made him unique and work.
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Exactly. It was a different take on Joker but still kept it faithful to the comics where it counts.
The voice actor did a decent job. He actually did come off as creepy.
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Oh Kevin Michael Richardson was BRILLIANT as Joker, i love his range as a voice actor, and he was able to bring a Joker that was his own that really became the character.
I also liked how with this new jackie chan-esque /Jet Li kick butting batman who solves things with more karate kicks than gadgets, that we had a Joker who while never able to "beat him" was a crazy 'drunken style' kick boxer himself, like a ragdoll ninja.
It fit with the notion of his feel as a "mad jester" more than a circus clown.
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That being said ...if Dimaggio were allowed to cut loose as Joker for Young Justice, i think we could have a third unique Joker version to love and fear
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Totally re-reading this convo, it was a good convo.
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Yeah so I've got to actually watching Arrow.
The first two seasons were amazing.
The third season not only got way too Batman-ish, but it also just... wasn't that good.
So far the fourth season is pretty good.
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Third season pissed me off, not as much as Gotham's been doing, but still gotten me mad.
FLASH however is where it's at
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So I decided to give Gotham another chance. So far season two had a bit of an off-putting start but after from the third episode onward it's been really good. This is what happens when the show actually plans itself out. It's not as good as Flash or SHIELD, but it's pretty friggin' cool.
Arrow season four is so far just okay, it's not amazing, but it's only the start. I'll judge it once the real plot kicks off in the winter. But anything will be better than season three.
As for Flash... oh man, that show is the BEST live-action superhero show EVER.
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From what i've experienced it's felt like slaps in the face canon wise, and the acting and pacing i can barely get through at times, with the exception of Jerome(god bless that man). You aren't there yet but there are decisions made with the characters that you may not agree with but i'll wait till your there.
ARROW...disappointed me so much after midpoint of season 3...hasn't undone that for me yet but it's getting there.
Flash..........-tears up smiling-
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Well, I'm all caught up with season two of Gotham.
It's not as good as Flash of AoS but... it's better than season one. The acting is better. Aside from the police massacre (that was so fucking stupid), it's over the top but not to the point where I dwell on it. I'm actually glad they (SPOILER) killed Jerome because it was a nice twist. One of my complaints about Jerome was that despite how much fun he was to watch (seriously, he nailed Joker), I didn't like how they just straight up confirmed Joker before Batman can even show up. It is a NECESSITY that Joker only appears when there's a Batman. He HAS to be a result of something Batman did and they will be at odds ever since. Like day and (k)night!
So killing off Jerome was a good shock value and at the same time kept the origin of Joker the mystery.
As for the rest of season two, not to bad. They seem to be trying to keep an actual pace on things and be know where they're going. In season one, things were just all over the place.
Arrow, still on the "meh" on that. So far season four is okay but it's too soon to tell.
Flash, so good. Man, it's so good. I love the story and the characters.
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I'd be okay with that....ish
If it weren't for the fact the writers SAID, in response to is Jerome the Joker?
"You think Joker was the first? Jerome is the snow ball that started the legacy of the Joker in Gotham, it's like a fearful mantle...the real joker's yet to be seen."
To me that's like saying "do you think Bruce Wayne was the first Batman Gotham had?" ITS HERESY! YES HE WAS THE FIRST JOKER! THEY'RE STRIPPING HIM OF HIS ORIGINALITY, and Now just pawning it off as if he's crazy is some fad that spreads through gotham's under belly?
I also find it ironic that Riddler has split personality and Dent does not.
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Well, that is something that kinda bugs me.
The Joker legacy should start with Joker himself. Considering that the Joker is one of those kind of serial killers that hates copy-cats.
However, if choose to see Jerome as more of a... prologue? See, Jerome was never the Joker. He was just another crazy dude that tried to make himself noticed. And THAT could be something the future Joker tries to do, not because he respects or worshiped Jerome, but because he liked the idea of HIMSELF doing that and actually being good at it. Not being someone's tool like Jerome was.
Similar with the whole Batman thing. Just watch the show closely and you'll see that Jim Gordon was pretty much the inspiration to Bruce. A guy that fought to clean up Gotham no matter what. He never gave in, he never will stop. Leslie even told Gordon that he looks into the abyss. It's pretty fitting.
Bruce will take that lesson and use it when he becomes Batman, only he won't have to worry about the rules of the police and stuff.
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It still uproots all the significance and originality there was in Joker being who he was, when he was. Like Batman, no one had seen anything like him before. It wasn't like Red hood where the guise aesthetic and theme had been utilized for other other exploits and then Jason Todd gave it its name in his version of it, Batman and Joker as genuine article as it got.
I'm not gouache enough to think that Bruce didn't get inspiration , hell who was Ras, and the masters on Nanda Parbat then? Or even Alfred for that matter. But there was no caped, pointy eared, boomerang throwing vigilante before Bruce, that would hang people upside down after tying them up, and not kill them.
And THATS what it feels like they did with Jerome. Who honestly i loved the performance of and could eat it up repeatedly, but it was always a back in my mind peeve that we now knew who he was and where he came from and his complete motivations cause he always should be an enigma with hints about him, ones you aren't sure are true most of the time. But back to him, saying that Jerome was not the Joker isn't what bothered me, it was the proclaiming that so much of what he did was the starting act for the actual Joker down the line. THAT is Heresy.
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Oh, indeed. Gotham is flawed, but I'd prefer it be left to interpretation where the Joker comes from than a solid origin story. His "multiple choice" past is a defining trait of his, only thing more defining than that would be that he cannot be without Batman.
Before his death, Jerome was given two prophecies. One from his father that told him he'd leave a legacy of madness (remember that his father was not a real psychic). Another from Essen, who said eventually everyone is gonna forget him. And I hope that's the case (sorry Jerome, you're actor was great), because that could mean the actual kid that grows to be the Joker might not even know who Jerome is. Plus, he'd pull of much better feats without working for anyone.
So, with that optimism in mind, I can enjoy Jerome. I just need to forget that super stupid stinger showing people going insane just from watching him on the news (because that didn't make any sense at all).
Gotham already is full of flaws. But this season is better than the last. They are actually trying to make a plot and see it through. Whereas in season one, the plot kept changing and going no where half the time. Most of it was really just comic fanservice (not even that great of fanservice) or random shit happening in each episode.
Season two has an ongoing plot, pretty much every episode connects. The actors are doing good still. They don't let their commercials ruin the fucking episodes (like the one that introduced Jerome). And good action. Yeah sometimes the characters can get a little cartoony, but that's just the style I'm guessing. The creators of the show said they wanted the series to basically be a moving comic book.
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One thing I've lost faith in about it of late, is it's heart. The show does some things well, Bruce and Alfred are stellar, Gordon is bad ass, they make me ship him and Thompkins for gosh sakes. And of course, Jerome is/was amazing...
But really, the show has lost it's heart, not that i had one before but it had a game plan to one we could all see.
Rise of the villains is a great plug but even that title bothered me, "The villains?" Who's? Batmans. And there is no batman. It's not about their molding or how they grow into the villains (minus Oswald) , they already have their gimics, their antics, hell even their names, or as close to them as you can get without having to use the real ones.
The shows become about just how many characters you can stuff into a season for fair-fair, when originally, I had thought we'd be getting at the heart of Gotham, an NYPD Blue story, and NCIS with a Gibbs we see get made from the ground up of rookie detective who is one of the adults who inspires Bruce Wayne to want to uphold justice, even when the law impedes you from doing so, after seeing how it doesn't always win in the end but you still fight.
There were no costumed villains or "Super villains" till Batman caped and cowled up, and it was a great symbolism of Batman rising to the occasion when the city goes literally mad, and visa versa.
But the show feels like a little kid in grown up pants tripping over itself as it desperately tries to be Batman, without a Batman, and is having to play a game of catch up with itself since season one.
I just feel it needs to slow down more and season the growth of villains before making them basically their super villain counter parts in every way but in name.
That's not the way to say the way they're doing it can't be done, they just aren't doing it well enough to be solvent, in my opinion.
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I feel the show has more "heart" than it did before. Like I said, before it seemed... enthusiastic but it seemed like they were just doing random shit with a TON of references to Batman that eventually made it seem like things were going to fast. Seriously.
However, you are correct. I hate the title "Rise of the Villains". It sounds... dumb. And obviously them just trying to sound cool but not actually sounding cool. Only "rise of the villains" that were actual rises for future Batman villains were Penguin and Riddler (both are my favorite characters in the show). And even they can get even too cheesy for me. Especially in the most recent episode where they become friends.
I do not like how the show tries to cram in so many characters, without much development to them at all. But that was actually the bigger problem in the first season (and what I thought was gonna be in this season). Despite how good Jerome was, I couldn't help but feel bothered that we were seeing Joker. Seriously, it seriously bothered me. One moment I'd be watching Jerome like "Hell yeah, this kid is so Joker" then the thought would just come back into my head and I would be like "Ugh, why did they put Joker in this!".
This season seems to have itself under a bit more control. For one, they killed off Jerome and they do some actual villain origin stories. Like the one they did for Firefly, even if it's a different one from the comics.
But I still appreciate the pacing the season is taking. Their pacing is just so much better and shit feels so much less random. Remember that little Dollmaker subplot in season one? What the fuck was that?! It had nothing to do with anything and it was focusing on the most annoying villain of the show (Fish).
Compared to season one, the show HAS slowed down. However, it still can be pretty... cheesy.
But you're right. Gotham does irk me sometimes. Batman and Joker (along with the rest) were symbols that Gotham had finally snapped. However, it wasn't like psychos didn't exist before Bats. Gotham has always been insane... it just finally showed it's true colors around the time Batman showed up.
Also, as a comic book adaptation, they HAVE to include some villains as... well, villains. I didn't mind seeing Zasz early because he's... well what else would there be to develop. He's a nut hitman that cuts himself. I think the actor isn't scary enough but that's aside the point. In the most recent episode, they introduce Flamingo. Y'know that guy that doesn't show up in the comics till AFTER Bruce is "dead" and Dick is Batman. I don't really care because I didn't really like his arc in the comics anyway. So they are mostly just including the expendable villains.
Penguin had a decent arc into becoming Penguin. Riddler is just now starting to work his was to becoming the Riddler. There's still Harvey Dent and Tommy Elliot.
Not to mention some of their own villains that aren't really in the comics.
The show isn't perfect. Sometimes it can be outright stupid. I almost stopped watching after Jerome and his pals massacred half the police department. I mean... that shit was just impossible and so fucking stupid. Cops can't be that dumb! Plus, they totally outnumbered Jerome's team. I'd get it if a couple of cops died but A LOT died. It's not like they were even that skilled. Jerome had little to NO gun and combat training. Yet he was easily avoiding getting shot and hitting pretty much every target he shot at.
Buuuuuut, that was really the low point of the season. After that the season seems to just keep getting better.
Not nearly as good as Flash or SHIELD, but good enough for me.
Gotham needs to learn that they can be cheesy without crushing my suspension of disbelief. Sometimes it seems like it's trying to be some sort of teen-punk horror story, while at the same time trying to be a comic book movie. And it's hard to get a feel for the tone because the actors (and writers) seem good enough to get me invested in the seriousness of a situation, but then the silliness always comes back in full force, catching me off guard.
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Its true, the insanity was always in Gotham, but Batman and Joker were signs of its metamorphosis, it's what Hugo Strange was so transfixed about in their existence and timing.
Zsaz works because as loony and tropy as he is, he's a villain we can image in our world, he's the slowly slipping stages of the City into madness, the warning signs.
Nigma thus far has been the guy that we're checking our watches for to become Riddler, split personality and all, who's antics have included killing his rival, and his girlfriend....none of which involve riddles, just his insanity, which feels wrong to me. He should've death trapped his rival at the station, he should've lured his love with questionares....you know metemorphic growth.
Instead, from Penguin on, this show seems fit to make EVERYONE a raging psychopath, even Barbara. All the killing and none of the flare which would have us believe they EVOLVE into the characters. Right now they just look and have quips like the part.
The show admittedly has gotten better, and it's for that i give a damn about it in any capacity. Right now I just feel like i was let down allot during a house of horrors ride and am just taking what I can get as i go, making note of any moments that do get me to jump.
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True on that. And it's still not completely destroyed yet. Batman is yet to appear.
Yeah, I like Zsaz, I just don't think the actor captures him that well. But that's just me.
Well, with Nygma, there HAVE been riddles. Sorta. He does love riddles and he loves leaving clues. He admitted that his real rush doesn't come from killing people, but from getting away with it. Fooling everyone. But he also has the impulse to leave clues and secret messages. His split personality emerged when he was so angry at himself for leaving clues but at the same time found that it just felt better to do so. Frankly, I see Riddler in this guy. He's smart, he's under-appreciated (at first), and loves puzzles. Yeah, that sounds like Riddler.
Yeah, I agree. I don't like how everyone is a raging, cackling psychopath. Hell, Penguin is probably the LEAST crazy out of all of them. He finds Nygma weird, and he sees Jerome and Galavan as people who merely destroy rather than build.
I've learned to turn my brain off with this show. I know that's easier said than done, because sometimes even I just facepalm at it. But it's not terrible. I didn't expect it to be that good to begin with.
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In truth I had a idea for how a Gotham show could work based off that "Before the Batman" series I did, before the shoe Gotham came out.
It takes liberties too, but works on establishing characters towards getting ready to be the characters as opposed to essentially making them them already minus their costumes.
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I feel that. The idea of "Before Batman" could be something great. But I knew Gotham was just gonna instead pay more attention to fan-service. Like all comicbook adaptations nowadays.
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