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paramoreSUCKS — Science
Published: 2012-09-22 06:59:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 7068; Favourites: 419; Downloads: 0
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My religious views have changed a bit since this stamp . I'm really not flatly an atheist. I've looked at pantheism. I started reading Cloud Atlas and that got me thinking about reincarnation and what happens to the energy we have after we die. Hell, I've even thought we're just in The Matrix. I just don't know. What I do know is: science has actually give us answers and progress.[link]
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If matter is made out of molecules, and molecules are made out of atoms, and if atoms are made out of protons neutrons and electrons; then what are protons, neutrons and electrons made out of?
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Quarks and gluons
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That's what sub-atomic particles like neutrons, protons and electrons are made of
I learned it when I was younger ^^
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And those are made out of energy and energy is made out of atoms. It is a cycle.
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.....
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NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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My favorite scientist was Josef Mengele, by the way.
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I agree with this. I am an eclectic pagan, and I believe in some crazy shit, but scientific fact comes before that. Science is what's gotten us this far, why would I want to stop the progress of that, just because I have religious beliefs? That shits stupid as fuck t'do.
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science comes before magic?
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Yes, because science pushes us forward. If everyone relied on spells and "natural medicine" to cure illnesses, natural selection would be kicking our fucking asses right now. Plus, I only practice magic because it's a spiritual practice, that makes me happy. I don't claim to cure cancer or heal emotional scars like some idiots on craigslist do.
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disagree whit your opinion personally.
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I disagree with your spelling personally
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I don't care anyways.
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I was joking by the way XD
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uwu yes I know I am so sorry I was sick and usually...when I get that way y3y I get a little aggressive and also act like jerk uwu; 
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Oh its fine you didn't do anything wrong XD
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haha!! it's ok I am really sorry if I sound rude uwu XD
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dude no problem im a rude son of a bitch myself
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hahaha!!probably .3. but you gave me a different impression
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There's too much faith in science. Faith doesn't belong with or on science. Most of the other scientists I know are deists. Hell, I'm a microbiology researcher and devout Christian. My boyfriend is a Biochemist and still identifies as a practising Jew. Saying a hot dog is better than a cake doesn't mean people who eat hot dogs can't eat cakes or that the cake is a lie. Science is observation and demonstration, and it has nothing to do with debunking religion or faith. It is merely our attempt at pursuing an understanding of how the world works using careful methods of research which depends on reliable but tentative evidence. Science doesn't give you answers, it gives you our best guess based on data available...at least in the biological sciences.
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If one's beliefs are contradicted with what is observed or demonstrated with empirical evidence, wouldn't it mean that those beliefs are wrong?
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In my 7 years of studying science, never once has it contradicted what I believed. Not a single time. Protons and electrons have nothing to do with Gd. Classical mechanics and the mathematical formula proving how a ball rolls down an incline plane have nothing to do with Gd. Gravity has nothing to do with Gd, space has nothing to do with Gd. Biology doesn't contradict Gd, it's the study of life, not a faith.
if you're thinking about evolution, then we do have some contradiction. In my case, I believe evolution is an undeniable fact. That's what I do for a living: microbial mutagenises. However, who is to say that the people who wrote the Bible weren't influenced by local religions to write an explanation of existence? The book of Genesis strikes me as similar to Mesopotamian myths, and even the story of Christ's death and resurrection is akin to the myth of Magna Mater and Attis.
That being said, none of that changes my mind about the existence of a god, just the integrity of its holy book written by followers. I worship the Judeo-Christian Gd and use the Bible as a basic guidance. Recall the book Life of Pi. Spoiler. In the end, Pi gives the Japanese officials 2 stories. One with animals and one without the animals. He stated that neither can be proven and neither explain how the ship crashed, so what did they prefer: the story with the animals or without the animals? They chose with animals, and so did I. Faith is conviction in our hopes, and it has nothing to do with science. Heck, we have groups on my campus for scientists who follow a religion.
Science isn't anti-Gd. It's just science and people need to stop treating it like its own god and worshipping it. It looks silly.
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Actually, in the case of the abrahamic mythology, there would be quite a lot of contradiction with what is observed not only in biology, but cosmology, geology or simply history.
But from your conclusion, you seem to be saying that you do not care if your belief are real or not, you just want to believe. Perhaps I am mistaken in this interpretation?
My goal was not to say that science is anti-deities, merely trying to understand how one who would call herself a "devout christian" (thus believe what is written in the abrahamic mythology to have really happened) and a scientist at the same time would reconcile her position when reality contradict the belief system.
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I tend to look at the Old Testament, as you said, mostly mythology, or exaggeration a of truth more accurately combined with mysticism. With biology, you're probably still referring to evolution and some crazy creatures that were mentioned in the Bible. Cosmology is a mess all over that I've never found could be solidly proven. We have the Big Bang Theory, which is the best guess out there. There's definitely proof that the universe is expanding, but that still doesn't give me any real answers to the origin of the universe. Where did that single point come from? What was the very, very beginning and how was it formed? The early stages of the big bang are subject to pretty intense speculation which scientists have to take with a grain of salt. It's a guess, a very good one, but a guess. Does it contradict the Bible? The bible and Torah are obscure on the matter. It just says Gd made stuff. It gives an order of stuff, but I'm not a devout Jew. My focus is on Christ and his teachings, what happens before is "eh" for me. It makes me unconventional and a cherry picker, but what other Christians call that are 'sects' lol. Geology, Noah's ark.
Simple history, probably referring to the Tanakh and all the Israelites, including Noah and his cool ark. There are no records left behind by the Egyptians to indicate that there were any Israelites in Egypt or even evidence of "pharaohs." That being said, do I believe in the story of Moses. Answer: Nay. What I believe is that the Israelites, a largely nomadic group, just passed by Egypt for a little while, got influenced by it all, and moved on. There are several different versions of Noah's flood from several ancient groups. Something did flood, but what it was, probably a small region in the area around the Black Sea. There's a good chunk of evidence showing that, but again, everything with a grain of salt.
You're interpretation is correct. I don't know if it's real or not. I have no flippin' clue. I choose to believe it is. Every faith comes with its flaws, Judaism and Christianity are no exception. We take it, we recognise it, we choose our own way to interpret it, and then we move on. Faith doesn't give you proof of anything, and it even comes with a questionable book of faith in my case.
"Devout Christian" is different for me. So when I say "devout Christian," the Abrahamic mythology is just something I nod at and analyze from a different point of view than once we get to the Christian New Testament, specifically just the Gospel. I follow the teachings of Christ, I believe in Christ as my saviour, and the bridge to Gd. A Christian is a follower of Christ, and that's all I am. I follow Christ. I am devout in my faith of Christ. I am utterly convinced in my salvation through this zombie guy, and I pray to Gd at night and in the morning. I believe in the Judeo-Christian Gd, but do I believe in the story of the Israelites? Myths with flimsy potential truths.
I guess you could say I reconcile it just by looking at the Tanakh with a different perspective than I do the Gospel. I account for human error and external cultural influences of the region Israelites happen to stumble on. There are very obvious parallels, which tells me some guys liked the Mesopotamian stuff and incorporated it. Question then becomes: if I do all this stuff to reconcile it, is it even the Judeo-Christian Gd anymore? My answer is that I believe in one Gd and one Christ. Labels don't faze me because I don't really believe in the potential of any other god except the only Gd. In fact, I don't believe I even have a religion to begin with. I have a personal relationship with the one Gd through Christ. People call that Christian, and for convenience sakes, I go along with it. Call Him what you want. Judaism has several names for Him. But to me, Gd is Gd.
In addition, this raises another point. Much of the Israelite history is influenced on the direct orders from this Gd, and if the Israelite history is false, then wouldn't this Gd be false too? Well, the crusaders also thought they were on orders from Gd. Were they? Bullshit. No. They thought this is what Gd mandated, and if they had to write a Holy Book, they'd include Gd saying these things to them. In addition, considering what little is known about Israelites outside of the Torah (which is like 2 pieces of old paper), they were nomads. There is no way for me to know whether or not Gd spoke to these people personally. Again, my suspicions have usually been that as a nomadic group, there's not going to be a lot on them available, and maybe they blew little events out of the water and mixed it with the voice of Gd. But beats me. Heck, I can't even prove that Constantine was wrong in his claim that he heard the voice of Christ. This is heavy on just blind faith.
Finally, I don't believe in proof. Can Gd speak to people? Yeah, I suppose. I don't think that's ever going to happen or it ever happened. This is just the way faith works. If you look for proof, it's no longer faith.
But the most important thing is that you're interpretation is right. I just choose believe without knowing if it's real or not. How can I know? Still believe in Gd, and still follow the word of Christ. That's all there is to it. Religion is man made institution which I don't bother with. I chose my own truth, and it's solely the existence of Gd and Christ. I just call it Christianity because it's less confusing to ppl. But the Old Testament? Stories. Myths using Gd as justification and replacement for other pagan myths that ancients liked, and Romans changed to parallel Roman religion. You make a solid with History and all it's confusion, but science? Nah, not really. Too many holes in most of that crap to mean anything. It becomes another choice: with animals or without. Without makes more sense, but neither is definitely proven without doubt except I'd say evolution and rocks. (Also, not making fun of Jews. I love quite a few of them and celebrate holidays with my man. Him, as a Jew, primarily believes in Gd and not much else. He still identifies as Jewish, but I'm not sure how he works it out.)
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Thanks for the reply, it's quite appreciated.
As for the contradiction found in biology, while it may mean evolution in general, in a more specific sense I mean the existence of this mythology's two first human, Adam and Eve, and the original sin per extension. Wouldn't it follow that with the demonstration that homo sapiens do share a common ancestor with the other hominidae (and the hominidae share a common ancestor with the other haplorhinis, the haplorhinis with the primates, the primates with the placental mammals, the placental mammals with the synapsids, ect ect) then wouldn't it mean that there is no such thing as an "original sin" and thus, no need to be "saved" (thus bringing doubt on the whole new testament)?
For a contradiction in cosmology I simply point to the "order of creation" from that mythology where, per instance, plants (day 3) were formed prior to the rest of the universe (day 4).. Or that day and night (day 1) existed without the sun (day 4) and no mention of the rotation of the planet anywhere. Yes, it may be simple myths borrowed from the rest of the civilizations from mesopotamia (heck, Yahweh might simply be one of the deities from the canaanite pantheon) but, to me at least, a shaky beginning (old testament) removes any credibility the rest of the story (new testament).
As for history, I do not only mean the lack of evidence the israelite ever went to egypt, the lack of evidence for a global flood or even the copies of myths from other mythologies, but also errors in the storyline of the new testament. Per instance, which Herod was it that did the alleged Massacre of the Innocent? The one who died 4 years prior to the supposed events? Or the one who suceeded but whose only reference of him was after Joseph, Mary and their child fled to Egypt?
And while I don't doubt about not wanting proof (aren't proof only in mathematics anyway?) I somehow doubt you wouldn't want some evidence to back up your belief. Otherwise, why belief in the existence of something if there is no evidence of it? Perhaps a sense of security when facing one's mortality? A temporary answer to the great unknown answers of life (small questions also)? Or a way to feel stronger in difficult things (even if it may simply be all in the person's mind)?
And I do have some confusion in what you mean with "with animals or without". Do you mean us homo sapiens, or something else?
Thank you for your time.
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Btw, I won't be responding for a while or maybe not at all. I welcome questions and I appreciate how kind and civil you are, but I'm very sick so I won't be on this website often or have the will to answer. I suffer from a severe and lethal illness that I need to focus on treating.
I hope you don't mind. Thank you for your time.
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It's quite alright, I thank you for the time you've taken and hope the treatment will go well.
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For 1) I believe Adam and Eve are referring to Homo sapiens sapiens that speciated from earlier hominids and not the only ones around. The other stuff, don't know. Probably they created a god and believed to have heard him, but I still believe in sin and I still believe in this Gd wherever it he came from since it's so unexplainable and can't be proven. I don't care about the original sin, but the others I still think I need to be saved from to get to Heaven or a perfect world. Sin isn't just the original one, there's a lot more worse ones, primarily denying the existence of Gd and worshipping others. Plus, if I believe in this omnipresent Gd, who's to say he wasn't the one who created the world in this matter and people messed it up? Maybe when he said we come from dirt, he meant bacterial and eukaryotic cells early in earths history that formed from something, a bunch of molecules that got together and then he gave us consciencness and higher thought, the ability to form a code of morality different from other species.
2) the same thing as before: tales. I've known the order of things don't make sense, but the Gospel of Christ has little to do with it, because Christ teaches mostly on the sovereignty of Gd and himself as an extension of Gd and achieving forgiveness from our inherent sin as humans rather than the original one that keep us from Gd. The original sin is the origin of the other sins, but maybe it wasn't. Who knows? I don't care about Paul or even nativity. I don't even believe Mary was a virgin but Christ was still the messiah. The genealogy of Christ was never mentioned by him and instead manipulated by early Christians to fit him into their requirements.
3) Bruh, humans have always been shit with keeping an accurate account of history, especially when it was all done and written based on word of mouth. That doesn't even faze me. History happened in some order and it's probably wrong but what do you expect from he said she said?
4) Nope. No evidence for me, no sense of security. I'm going on pure unfounded belief. because it's my own truth.
5) referring to Life of Pi, a book of a man strands for 7 months at sea, when Pi asked officials with story to believe. So it's a book. Google it, it's a great book.
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havent experience much faith in science. mostly facts brah
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See, you put too much faith in science. If a guy in a white lab coat and a PhD told you something, you'd believe him blindly. It's just a different god.
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i wouldnt believe it blindly (cross referencing bro) but i would take it with more salt than a dude with a priest collar saying jesus told him so
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Sounds reasonable.
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Science> Religion all the way! 
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Religion=Metaphor
Religion=/=Science
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since i have a religon man science is my favorite subject i have to say that the only thing i am aganist in science is evolution (dont get me wrong i study evolution and i take testes in it 
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It's quite simple really, genes change from generation to generation. Bad genes are killed off by the failure to survive while good or neutral ones are passed onto the next generation.
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i still dont belive in it but if you do its cool
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And yet so many people treat science like a religion. It's kind of funny, really, especially when atheist philosopher Friedrich Neitzsche warned of this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y68mGb… (1:22 - end (3:04))
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yeah, some do but at least i don't have to get up on sunday for science
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It reminds me my grandpa and some situation... There was a storm and she opened the window and... put the metal cross in it! METAL CROSS DURING THE STORM! When I started explaining that this is abnormal, she told me "God will save us". WTF?!
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Listen to what she says. It really works. Even better, hold the cross raised in your hand. I tried it and I got charged like Pikachu, and then I became a Super Saiyan 2 - you know, hair standing up, sparks going out, that kind of stuff. You should try it too.
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I'm an atheist. God won't save me. I don't believe enough :v
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I'm also an atheist, but I like transforming into Super Saiyan 2.
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Imma girl. Akira Troyama said I can't transform because of that. I can be only a housewife.
Damn you Akira.
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