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pitnerd — They were the 99%
#bible #noah #thegreatflood #noahandtheflood #biblical #flood #theflood
Published: 2015-03-21 17:06:52 +0000 UTC; Views: 1833; Favourites: 36; Downloads: 9
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Cool, someone found this and made a meme. My power and influence are complete.Related content
Comments: 175
Interesting. I'l look into it.
I agree with the middle. That may cause some of its problems has some of the writers may have put their own thoughts to control people.
Any idea where I can find the unabridged parts?
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That's the tricky part.
I only read what I did through a Reiki Master.
And my total denominations, from most to least, are Sufi, Christian and Reiki. Though I like much of Hinduism and Taoism.
I believed in God before, but was always dubious of organized religion. After reading the unabridged, well... you could say my belief galvanized.
If you can find someone who can hook you up, go for it. But don't trust any random joe who says they've got the real McCoy. Trust, but verify, as the saying goes.
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I hate to bother you, but the idea of rebirth has precious little to do with the story of Noah. It's a morality tale from an ancient morality so alien from ours it beggars belief that any would see any good in it.
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No morality is ever very alien at all. Take a moment to imagine what a culture with a completely different morality would look like. Someone would be praised for betraying the trust of everyone who ever loved them. Someone would be looked highly upon for running away in battle, or for selling his side out to save his own hide. One would be looked down upon for keeping one's promises, and someone who died so others could live would be vilified. You might as well try to imagine a culture where 2+2=3.
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A culture where genocide is praised and seen as a good thing. Yes that is very alien.
Maybe alien is the wrong word, perhaps how I should describe it is a pre-enlightenment, totalitarian bronze age ideology. To me as a twenty-first century man who does in fact believe in the ideals of the enlightenment, I find it grotesque in the capacity that modern men not so different from me try to apply these bronze age lessons to our modern time. That's what's most alarming.
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Dude, just because something is included in the Bible doesn't mean it's being condoned (that logic would also mean that any history book which mentions the Holocause is anti-semetic). And just because God killed all those people doesn't mean he didn't mourn having to (no parent enjoys punishing their children). And I can prove to you that genocide was seen as a bad thing. The entire book of lamentations is mourning the genocide that the Hebrews went through. There's also this: sin-and-love.deviantart.com/ar…
And there's also this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbBHj2…
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"no parent enjoys punishing their children"
No parent kills their child as punishment or abuses them either. If this is the case a Social worker needs to pay god a visit.
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No offense, but you're among the last people I'd count on to have a reliable interpretation of anything related to any theology.
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This isn't a story like Buddha gaining enlightenment while facing off with the army of darkness, or even Gilgamesh heading off to fight immortality. It's a story of a people whose crime is disobeying their god and dying for it. It's a story in which the unthinkable is good, genocide.
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Are you sure that's all they did?
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An act God clearly regretted, or else he would not have promised never again to do it. And when Sodom and Gomorrah fell, spared were those who of good nature and God vowed that any city that had at least a handful of good people would be spared.
Which tells me either that God is leading by example or He too is learning, just as we are.
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For God to be learning would mean that God isn't omniscient.
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We are made in his image, you know.
We're his children, and every parent learns that they have to learn as they go.
Why do you think we refer to Him as our father? ^_^
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remember that God exists outside of time. God sees all of time from the Big Bang through this conversation to the heat-death of the universe all in God's eternal now. So learning is impossible for God on two separate accounts.
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His behavior suggests otherwise. But everyone has their own interpretation.
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His behavior suggests otherwise? What do you mean?
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As comforting as it is to think of your parent, when young, as all-knowing and all-powerful, the parent is learning how to raise the child as they go along.
If he knew one of his angels would reject his mandate to love humanity, why ask him to begin with rather than flipping a switch?
If he thought Old Testament methods were not as effective as the subtle means he employs nowadays, why use them to begin with?
God is profoundly wise, intelligent beyond comprehension and can see down the road way further than we can.
But he's never tried to make anything like us before. No doubt, on other worlds, he is trying the same.
But his experiences earned in creating and raising us has made him wiser still.
Note how after he obliterates a city or flooded the world, he would promise never to do it again. In the case of flooding the world, never again and in the case of Soddom and Gomorrah, so long as there are decent people living in a city, he would not strike it down.
Port Royal in the Caribbean comes to mind, namely being a hub of pirate activity...
At any rate, you get my drift.
He is our loving parent. And right now, we're in the rebellious teen phase, with so many people these days denying his existence in spite of providing us with EVERYTHING.
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"If he knew one of his angels would reject his mandate to love humanity, why ask him to begin with rather than flipping a switch?" Could you rephrase that? I don't understand what you're asking.
"If he thought Old Testament methods were not as effective as the subtle means he employs nowadays, why use them to begin with?" Could you be more specific?
"God is profoundly wise, intelligent beyond comprehension and can see down the road way further than we can. " Again, no. God sees all of time all at once. This is what is meant when Paul says "A day to the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years to the Lord is like One day."
"Note how after he obliterates a city or flooded the world, he would promise never to do it again. In the case of flooding the world, never again and in the case of Soddom and Gomorrah, so long as there are decent people living in a city, he would not strike it down." Yes, but I don't understand how that means God isn't omniscient.
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I don't think you're aware it's totally copied from Sumerian mythus. Long before there were any Hebrews.
I suppose they heard about it, and a lot of other things they incorporated as well, when captives in Babylonia.
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Hundreds of cultures form around the world had a flood myth, and hardly any of them even knew the others existed.
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the Hebrews definitely know the Babylonians existed since they besieged and pillaged Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple and deported some thousands of them to Babylonia.
Also, it's not just "a Flood myth" like the Greeks had ( I speak of the Greeks sinc they weren't that fra from the Hebrews ), the similarities are extremely strong. Look it up if you don't believe me.
Plus, the Sumerians, to whom the Babylonians succeeded and from whom they derived much of their mythus, already believed in this some 3.000 / 3.500 years BC.
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But that doesn't mean that the Hebrews didn't have a flood myth before they met the Babylonians.
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Tell me if you can then where this comes up.
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I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "where this comes up" ?
The Flood myth is in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Enlil, king of the Sumerian gods, decides to drown humans as they are too noisy, but the god of Wisdom Ea warns king Uta-Napishtim ( aka Xiuxiudra in other versions ) who builds an Ark, etc.
IIRC when the Flood subsides Ea blames Enlil, the implication being that with no humans left the godswill receive no sacrifices anymore…
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Then who says they weren't both talking about the same thing and their interpretations diverged?
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But god order several genocides in the bible, as well as perpetuate ethnic cleansing in Canaan. Not to mention slaughtered the first born of Egypt. If god is learning or as fallible as we are then he is in no way deserving of supreme power.
As for the story of sodom and Gomorrah, lot got drunk and raped his own daughters. What does that say about what god considers right and wrong?
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sin-and-love.deviantart.com/jo…
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So much for your credibility.
Genesis 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
They got him so drunk he wasn't in right mind and they knocked boots with him and he was *unaware*.
His daughters were faced with oblivion and they made a choice to continue the lineage.
The morality is debatable, but saying that Lot raped his daughters is a misnomer.
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Those who know tell me that a man so drunk as to be unaware of what's happening to his body would be unable to "rise to the occasion".
Conclusion: If this actually happened, either God gave a thumbs-up to father/daughter incest, or Lot lied about who got who drunk.
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maybe he was just that knocked out. anyone who's ever woken up while in puberty knows that you can "rise to the occasion" perfectly fine while unconscious.
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It's not just the unconsciousness: Excessive alcohol consumption can cause impotence. Again, either God approved of father/daughter sex or Lot lied about who was drunk.
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Watch this video. If you want to skip to the part pertinent to the argment you've been using, skip to 5:00 www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbBHj2…
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Clod disabled comments because they all told him how wrong he was.
My point stands. Yours fails. It's really just that simple.
Accept it.
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That's not why he disabled comments. This is why he disabled comments: www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwubZc…
Also, I would like to point out that you just commited the ad lapidem fallacy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument… I will freely concede that my point is wrong when you can demonstrate why it is such.
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Since I have already done so - twice - you are lying.
Goodbye. I have no time for liars.
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That's pretty selective interpretation.
I'm not even orthodoxy nor do I take the Bible literally, but saying that Lot raped his daughters was a falsehood. One that I felt compelled to see corrected.
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How much do you have to drink to fuck your own daughters?
Alright, fine, assuming it was all the daughter's faults (who were still right by god) how is god good for consigning a whole civilization to extinction?
And back to my original point, how can you draw any kind of good morals from this? This is the kind of stiff Isis and the Taliban read to kids
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Well do you know what sort of folks the people of that civilization were?
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How much do you have to drink to fuck your own daughters?
Have you *ever* been exceedingly drunk? As in, cannot differentiate floor from ceiling?
Alright, fine, assuming it was all the daughter's faults (who were still right by god) how is god good for consigning a whole civilization to extinction?
It was the daughter's fault, but they did it with the intent of preserving the line since Lot's wife disregarded God's word and looked back at what was happening and turned to salt. Further, their actions took place *after* they left the city. And the city... was filled... with *evil*. The argument is often made that allowing evil to exist is evil in itself.
God had the power to destroy evil and so he did, but not before giving good a chance to get out. What happened afterwards was out of his hands.
And back to my original point, how can you draw any kind of good morals from this? This is the kind of stiff Isis and the Taliban read to kids
It's not about morals. It's a cautionary story. Don't fall to evil ways. You will not last. And even if you survive, you'll have problems.
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I have drank until I passed out. And when it comes to sex, alcohol is not a performance enhancing drug. Alcohol is depressant. It actually lowers the functions responsible for sex. When I drank till passing out little Boot was dead to the world.
So the daughters were still righteous after date raping their father. Fine. In the aftermath of that how can you condone God murdering Lot's wife after she dared to look upon her childhood home, which had been ruthlessly slaughtered to the last baby by frighteningly amoral deity?
But one family? In a whole city? Nobody else in an entire city was good in any way, shape or form?
I think I'm finally understanding what you see in this. "It's not about the morals." Shockingly honest. I get scaring your kids into eating their veggies or something else banal, but to base your entire system of morality on fear and fear of punishment is barbaric and inhumane. Don't do good because good is its own reward, do good because God will murder your whole family whether it's your fault or not.
how were you abused as a kid until you saw fear as good and a good tool for enforcing social order?
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I'd just like to point out that the Bible never says that Lot's daughters were righteous for raping him. If you think that the Bible automatically condones something just by mentioning it, then you'll have to also think that any history book that mentions Jim Crow laws is racist.
"I think I'm finally understanding what you see in this. "It's not about the morals." Shockingly honest. I get scaring your kids into eating their veggies or something else banal, but to base your entire system of morality on fear and fear of punishment is barbaric and inhumane. Don't do good because good is its own reward, do good because God will murder your whole family whether it's your fault or not. " Dude, again, the story isn't meant to teach morals.
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Twist it whatever way you want in order to fit your narrative, dude. If it help you sleep, who am I to challenge?
But as to that last line...
... ya' fuckin wot, mate?
Fear of incarceration, fear of prison, fear of death, fear of humiliation all done as the foundation of the criminal justice system (A tool for social order) of very nearly every society spanning back to tribal elders passing judgement upon guilty parties.
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Were you abused as a child? I mean, did anyone beat you, sexually abuse you or encourage you to bully others?
Because you have a pretty twisted worldview. Most people on this sight, don't desire a world dominated by rule of fear. Most people don't want to live in a world where women are property, killing the weak is okay and self determination is non existent.
That you do want to live in such a world leads me to believe you were horribly abused as a child. What happened to you to turn you into such a twisted human being?
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"Most people don't want to live in a world where women are property, killing the weak is okay and self determination is non existent. " What the heck does any of that have to do with the story of Sodom and Gommorah?
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My personal history isn't your concern.
And your attempts to twist what is pretty factual, namely that fear is a tool for social order and has been for years, is fallacious.
What keeps us from putting our hand on the stove after doing it once or being told what happens?
Fear.
Now, we *strive* to ensure that good nature is the tool for social order and I couldn't agree with you more on *that* principle, but I don't believe in absolutism.
For those people who have been raised well, with a strong moral compass and empathy, that's enough for them. But for those who lack that, then fear must suffice because they will not choose to return a wallet they find on the ground if they have no empathy for their fellows, but they will refuse to commit a crime because they know the consequences will be costly.
It's not ideal, but until we get to such a point where moral compasses and empathy encompass 100% of human behavior, it's the only tool proven to work.
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Duh! fear has been a tool of social order. So was slavery and torture. That doesn't make those things good OE desirable and I think anybody who does think such a totalitarian world is good needs expert psychiatric help.
Actually pain keeps us from burning ourselves. To avoid pain is natural, to fear pain is crippling. I burned my hand once but I'm not afraid of the stove.
Why do you want to live in a world like that? What sickness makes you delight in a world with an unalterable, unaccountable and unchallenged authority? It's like living under Maoist China or sharia law.
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Boot, let go of the para sail, because the slightest gust seems to send you up, up and away.
Fear is part of our emotional background.
You're adhering to absolutionism here.
Fear is a negative emotion, therefor fear is bad, therefor all things associated with it are bad! Courage is a positive emotion, therefor courage is good, therefor all things associated with it are good!
I could just as easily turn things around...
Fear keeps the suicidal man from taking his own life. Courage pushes him to do it.
Fear keeps the disenfranchised youth from mugging people. Courage spurs him to go mug those bastards!
Fear prevents the vengeful husband from attacking his adulterous wife and her lover. Courage sees his fists bloodied by night's end.
By the same token...
Fear prevents the everyman from chasing their dreams. Courage pushes them to make the pursuit.
Fear prevents the nice guy from asking out the nice girl. Courage gets him her number.
Fear prevents would-be explorers from pushing the frontier further and further. Courage places them in the history books afterwards.
The point I'm trying to make here is that there's no absolutes as you appear to keep insisting.
See what I'm getting at? It's a case-by-case basis.
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You flat out said to me that fear has always been used to keep humans in line, that any kind of gentler methods of rule of law are useless. How do you justify this bizarre and retrograde worldview of yours?
You elevate fear as something good, you come across as a misanthrope who believes that his fellow humans avoid rape and murder because they're afraid of getting their. I'm afraid to put words in your mouth, but you seem to believe that people are as emotionally damaged as you are?
Are you afraid? Is fear the only thing keeping you from hurting others? Beating kids only teaches them that might makes right, that it's okay to harm others as long as they're weaker. Were you beaten? Is that the source of your obsession with rule of fear? How can you live with such a toxic worldview?
And getting off topic, you utterly misunderstood suicide and the causes behind it.
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"You flat out said to me that fear has always been used to keep humans in line, that any kind of gentler methods of rule of law are useless. " That's not what they said at all. They said that governments will have to resort to fear with many people (not all), because nothing else will work on those people.
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