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ScarecrowsMainFan β Commander Shepard vs. Master Chief
Published: 2012-12-18 11:44:35 +0000 UTC; Views: 6315; Favourites: 35; Downloads: 7
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Two of the greatest heroes in the video game world, will now settle the score and decide once and for all who is superior.Commander Shepard: Member of the Systems Alliance Navy, and captain of the Normandy, Shepard is the hero of the Mass Effect trilogy, who fought against the overwhelming Reapers for the safety of mankind.
Master Chief: A member of the SPARTAN programed to create a new breed of Super Soldiers, Master Chief is the hero of the HALO franchise, who has gone against the evils of The Flood and the Covenant and come out the last man standing.
Now these two heroes must turn their guns on each other. All the experience, all the fighting, and all the choices they've made have brought them here. In a one on one battle to the death, the question you must ask yourself is....
WHO! IS! DEADLIEST!
(Disclaimer: Just to be clear, these two combatants were created / are owned by people far more creative / wealthier then me. I have made this, not for profit, but in the hopes of encouraging spirited discussion among fans. Please support the combatants official series. Thank you, that is all).
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Comments: 131
Master Chief wins this so hard.
He's faster,stronger,smarter, and has more experience.
The only thing I see giving Shep an advantage is biotic powers, Which he potentially doesn't even have.
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if you take normal sheppard, Masterchief gonna kick him easily, but if you take biotic sheppard, then masterchief jsut gonna shit in his pant.
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Master Chief is one of the best, but after researching Commander Shepard, I got to go with him over Master Chief.
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Mast Chief, hands down. He's gone through shit Shepard can't even imagine trying.
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MC for sure he's fought far worse enemies than the shepard has
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I would really love Master Chief to win here but I can't see how he can besides in hand to hand combat. Commander Shepard's weapons and armour/Shield are far superior. Mass Effect weaponry is supersonic for starters, MC has been known to dodge rounds at range, but not supersonic rounds. And in kindness to my beloved MC, if Shepard has Tech or Biotics, that just adds insult to injury. However... in hand to hand, I don't believe Shepard could score a hit on MC, as his training and augmentations, along with his armour make him too fast AND tough. He'd be like watching Bruce Lee vs Biff Tannen by comparison.
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Fun Fact: Most every bullet is shot at supersonic speeds, even this century let alone the century Halo takes place in. For example, an AK-47 fires with a muzzle velocity of 715 m/s, which means its bullets fly at Mach 2.
On a side note, MC has dodged bullets at point blank range (in the Fall of Reach).
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The mass effect universe shields holds up kinetic but not energized attacks. The halo universe shields can hold up to both kinetic and energy. All spartan II armor is the same quality of an unsc warship hull. And he fell from space twice so I don't think mc will go down that easy. And last but not lest his relfexes are estimated to be at 1400 times normal relfexes. PS read the books.
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I look at these two charters and I see two driven soldiers that are practically raised in military environments. Both have survived what should have been the impossible. So as soldiers, they are tied.
But soldiers need a few things in order to fight... weapons, armor, and the experience to be deadly and efficient.
Master Chief variety of weapons consist of: Pistols/magnums, M7 SMG's, the DMR, MA5 Assault Rifle, the BR55 (Battle Rifle). the ARC-920 Β Rail Gun, M90 Shotgun, M319 Grenade Launcher, Spartan Laser, SRS99 Sniper Rifle, Rocket Launcher, and the SAW.
Commander Shepard carries an arsenal consisting of Heavy Pistols, Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Sniper Rifles, Submachine Guns, and Heavy Weapons (i.e. Firestorm, Missile Launchers, the Cain). But Shepard does use different ammunition powers, which would allow for different effects on the enemy. Also the weapons Shepard uses relies mostly on player preference, well as the different abilities used throughout the series.
Β
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I want to point out that the Chief is a Spartan-II. Without the MJOLNIR armor, a Spartan can lift up to three times theirΒ body weight. (Which mind you, is twice the human norm, because of the augmentations) That, added with the reaction time of 20 milliseconds (Approximately - it's been impossible to accurately chart it), as well as the fact they can virtually see in the dark without any gear AS WELL as having an average speed of 55KM/h. Kelly-087 is able to run even faster than that, but she doesn'tΒ count anyway.
So, back to the reaction time - they're able to see, think and react as if everything was in slow motion, and quoted by Kelly as "Spartan Time"
The MJOLNIR Mk. V power armor is the default SPARTAN-II armor, and is able to strengthen the user even MORE - so much that only with the bone augmentation can it be used, or else the user would crush himself from the inside.Β Spartans have been recorded with doing things such as: Using a mongoose as a makeshift weapon, kill Elites with skull-breaking force, overpower BRUTES with sheer strength and break their spines, and on at least one occasion have been able to find Hunters in CQC, and win. John-117 has also been recorded at going over 100KM/h with the armor on - Kelly, once again, is able to go much faster than that. Not to mention the shielding itself is based off of Covenant shielding, which is able to stand its own pretty easily against UNSC weaponry.
If we're to add Cortana into this, then she's able to increase John's reaction time even more than it was before, not to mention that she can offer him advice and if possible, hack Shepard's omni-tool to give the Chief an advantage.
If we go down to weapons, then it'll all depend on what the Chief has (not that having a fork wouldn't make him deadly). An MA5C assault rifle with a magnum would be a decent loadout, but if he were to carry covenant plasma weaponry he'd win by a longshot - Kinetic shields aren't something I'd say could stand up to it from what I've read around.
Now, to Shepard: Let's say we have a standard, soldier Shepard. N7 armor, an avenger assault rifle and a phalanx pistol let's say. Yes, he's a beast against things such as Cerberus, Geth or Reapers, but they aren't John-117. The powered armor that Cerberus troops use aren't nearly as good as one would have as a Spartan-II, and their reaction times alone are massively inferior to a Spartan, let alone their other attributes. Not to mention 117 was trained from 6 and onwards, so he's lead a life of pure military to give him an edge in combat. He doesn't have as much of an emotional vulnerability as Shepard does, and while it WOULD give him an edge in combat, the emotion is also what makes Shepard just as vicious seeing as he would fight for what he believes in, not to mention his crew and whoever is his love interest.
Overall, Shepard would be able to definitely do some damage to John, but Master Chief Petty Officer John-117, is still victorious. Mind you, this is coming from a die-hard Mass Effect fan. If anyone has anything to say, go right ahead - I'm up to it!
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It is good that somebody read the books.
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There's one inaccuracy in your argument. The Chief could lift three times his own weight when he was 14 (Post-augs). After that, his augmentations increased in efficiency and it is wise to say that he can lift by far more than that.
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You are right the longer a spartan II lives the stronger they get. Also the age difference; the chief was born in 2511 and it is 2557(?) now in story that makes him 46. How the cryo sleep on warships and he was fighting since he was 14 makes is biological age at mid 20s to early 30s. He also flipped a 66 ton tank.
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A man who is capable of flipping a 66-ton Main Battle Tank is going to shrug off everything that Commander Shepard can throw at him. It's 2558 now, at least in Spartan Ops and Halo: Escalation.
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And the Elephant, even the game questioned how he did that.
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That must've been a hidden easter egg to somehow make the players surprised that it's possible, that the SPARTAN-II's can flip an Elephant.
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It was an Easter egg, I just wanted to bring it up.
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Β I am going off Soldier Class Shepard.
Β Shepard hands down. Chief may be a super soldier, but Shepard has gone up against plenty of bred super soldiers, the Krogan on Virmire were bred as super soldiers. Chief has gone up against tough enemies, but nothing like a Reaper. Shepard has defeated multiple Reapers, granted not alone though. Shepard also has qualities that chief could never have (because of Chief being more or less manufactured a super soldier) things like intuition, identifying character flaws and weaknesses, outwitting enemies and even making enemies question their own motivations (Shepard convinced Saren to kill himself and then later the Illusive man) and being overall more human than Chief gives Shepard a heightened sense of what is at stake at if he loses a fight.
Β As far weapons and armor, Shepard has a clear advantage. A M-96 Mattock with Inferno ammo would kill Chief in seconds in a horrible horrible way and due to Shepards Adrenaline he is guaranteed to get the first shots and the most shots off in mere seconds, all accurate to the head (Shepard is an N7 officer, the best of the best. His marksman ship would be near, if not, perfect). Chief, most of the human weapons he has access to are useless and a greatly inferior to even the worst weapons in the Mass Effect universe. Even the covenant weapons don't match well at all to the Mass Effect weapons. Even if Chief gets the first shots off he has to get through kinetic barriers far superior to his, and its less then a second before Shepard has fired back.
Β If it came down to it I'd say Chief would be struggling just against the Blue Suns, let alone against any of the tougher enemies. Just Liara alone would defeat Chief, hell I bet Mordin could even take him if it came down to it. Shepard is by far the superior soldier just because of experience and skill alone, then add all the tech...
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Chief is, literally, a super human. Hell, at eight years old he defeated a group of UNSC Marines because they weren't in uniform and he didn't want to rely on the fact that he was only a child. He took out armed Marines at EIGHT years old. When he was fourteen he was forced into a boxing ring with four ODST solders and, with his bare hands, killed two and gravely wounded the other two. This is all before he even gets his armor or weapons and the SPARTAN augmentations are just barely beginning. Chief has plenty of intuition, as I stated already he almost immediately understood that armed guards would not go easy on him for being a child (that's at 8, mind you), he is a solder identifing others flaws and weaknesses is almost second nature to him, as is outwitting enemies and turning half the Covenant against itself.
Chief has the advantage as far as weapons and armor go. Kinetic barriers used by Shepard would do shit compared to the kinetic energy any weapon in Halo puts out, MA5D assault rifle has a muzzle velocity of 550 m/second, it would kick the shit out of ME shield in a clip. As for the inferno rounds hurting Chief, you are aware his armor is made to deflect the hate given off by Covenant weapons, right? It wouldn't even faze him. How is Shepard going to get the most shots off in the first few seconds? Chief has a much faster reaction time than any human. Master Chief is a SPARTAN, the best of the better, and even then he is the leader of the entire SPARTAN IIs. Any weapon in HALO beats any weapon in Mass Effect, especially human weapons in purely kinetic means. The weapons in ME bring shields down through numbers, the kinetic energy brought out by a MA5D is so much more and would bring the shields down in a clip.
Shepard would be dead before he even knew what hit him.
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Β Chief wouldn't win. All N7 officers have to have the abilities you just stated Chief had to even be selected for N7 training. And in my experience with the Halo games and any lore I've heard, Chief really is that smart or able to outwit enemies by any other means other than the things you'd learn in any basic military training in the real world. As for the weapons, the Mattock is armor piercing to begin with, its rate of fire depends on the person operating it, with the adrenaline skill that puts its rate of fire even higher. With the same skill it would put Shepards reflexes well beyond Chiefs, once the shields are down the armor piercing rounds do their work and ignite Chief from the inside with the Inferno rounds.... Here is another big point for Shepard, Chief was considered a superhuman from childhood. Shepard wasn't. Every skill, every bit of determination, every bit of experience Shepard earned the hard way. He got to being a Specter by proving he was above and beyond other soldiers, not simply just being born stronger then the rest. A life like this, that molds and shapes a man, gives Shepard a massive edge over even a super soldier who was only bred for warfare and has no other experience at all in any other field. Hell Saren bred Krogan super soldiers the same way Chief would of been bred, Shepard didn't break a sweat with them.... Like I said before I doubt Chief could even beat Mordin Solus let alone Shepard.
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Speaking from a pure solder stand point, John is better.
First, he is faster, can run at 55 km/h (34.2 mph the average is 5 to 8 mph), there is nothing Shepard would be able to do against the raw speed John is bringing even if Shepard is slightly faster than the average human, there is absolutely no way he would match up to John.
Second, he can react faster. Just after getting the augmentations all the Spartans were able to react at 20 milliseconds (the average is 150 to 300 milliseconds). Sure, Shepard has the Adrenalin Rush, but what's it going to do when facing someone that moves several times faster than you? At best, John is going to look like he is moving at normal speeds. Now, here's the interesting part, that 20 milliseconds was a young, relaxed John without his armor, given his armor, his years of training by combat, and put him with his adrenalin pumping, his reaction time increases significantly. By the time Shepard rises his/her gun, John will have already fired, threw a grenade, and found cover.
Third, John is stronger. As a child, just after getting his augmentations, John was able to lift twice his body weight (which was double that of a normal human), hell, assuming he can still only lift twice his body weight (286 lbs) he is still lifting 572 lbs without armor. With his armor, John is able to causally lift Warthogs (3.5 metric tons). And this speed isn't exclusive to lifting, John is able to leave dents in titanium armor with a bare-knuckle punch, titanium today has a tensile strength of 63,000 psi, the titanium in Halo is stronger than the type we have today so we can safely assume he is hitting in with over 63,000 psi.
These three points have only gotten better since John first became a SPARTAN, which is the time many of these measurements are from. Plus John's training and combat experience and the multiplier effect his suit has with these abilities. John is far superior.
Talking about the Mattock specifically, its a short range weapon, all John really has to do is stay out of its effective fire range and he'll be safe, but let's say for argument's sake that he moved in close. John's MJOLNIR sports a thick titanium alloy outer shell which can take a few armor piercing rounds without compromising it, then underneath that another titanium nanocomposite bodysuit, and beneath that is a gel that is able to change its density which can also act as armor, all told the MJOLNIR offer's not one, not two, but three layers of protection after the energy shield. Then add in John's reflexes, the Fall of Reach tells us John dodged point blank machine gun fire (full auto as opposed to semi-auto), and given that all of Mass Effect's weapons enjoy leaving a trail that John can see move in slow motion. The Mattock isn't going to hit John.
Lol, this is what Dr. Helsey, the 'mother' of the Spartans, had to say about John to Cortana βHe is neither the smartest, nor the fastest, nor the strongest of the Spartans. But he is the bravest, and quite possibly the luckiest. And in my opinion, he is the best.β John wasn't picked because he stronger than anyone else, he picked because he was the luckiest. All the feats John has done, he's worked for. To even become a Spartan he had to go through unimaginable pain that killed or crippled 42. Through hard work he became the de-facto leader of the group of 33 Spartan IIs. Shepard isn't like the Krogan's (who had no battle experience, by the way).
John out runs, out lifts, out punches, and out thinks Shepard. John takes this fight.
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This entirely depends on which class of shepherd is being thrown in here. Given that he's a normal human, and the chief is faster, stronger, smarter, and pretty much superior in every way to a normal human, chief wins against most, if not all of shepherds various forms.
If this battle starts out like any Deadliest warrior episode, both targets see each other at once. Given the chief's superior reaction time, he'd likely be able to get the first shot off.
As a note regarding the shields used by shepherd: they're designed to withstand kinetic shots from mass effect weapons. The damage these weapons can do is easily determined simply by how much recoil it produces (like any modern firearm, kinetic force is directed both ways) Given that the primary weapons used by shepherd (barring the sniper rifle and shotgun) have extremely low recoil, and don't appear to have much kinetic impact against unshielded targets (like saren's head when one of the crew puts one into his dead face) it can be gathered that in most respects these weapons are meant to overpower shields via number of shots as opposed to single shot damage. Given how fast Shepherds shields drop from these anyway, the Chief's primary weapons (either the armor piercing rounds of the assault rifle or the high explosive rounds of the magnum) would likely break these shields down even faster than they break an elites. If they don't break them, they'll certainly direct enough force to push shepherd back a few steps.
At this point, if the chief doesn't manage to kill shepherd outright with his first few shots, any follow up shots from shepherd would likely hit more air than target, given the chief's reaction time, any form of cover, and that nice feature that all mass effect guns have of leaving a nice blue trail to follow.
After a few rounds of shooting, if the chief hasn't already broken the shields and splattered shepherds innards across the ground, all he really would need to do is close with him. If the chief grabs shepherd (easy enough since he's faster in every respect) then he can just squeeze and shepherds bones will break. At that point the chief could bend him into any shape he desires and leave him on the ground for someone else to collect.
Now we get to the part where the different classes come in. Soldier, sniper, and engineer would all be fighting the chief with tactics similar to his own, so they're already outclassed to the point where they might as well surrender. As for the biotics, well, we've all seen those manage to NOT kill targets of a certain level of hardiness, and when you throw the chief in hear, he'll be harder than a brute, much faster, probably stronger, and most certainly smarter. Hit the chief with one of those attacks, shepherds only hope would be if it killed him on the first try. My money (and several mass effect players who've memorized the codex and all it entails) says that not a single one of them could pull that off. If (when) the chief survives, his tactics would involved blinding, detracting, closing, and breaking. That or determining the range of those attacks, which given cortana's intellect, wouldn't be difficult. Hit him once, good luck hitting him again. Eventually the chief would either crack the biotic's armor with gun fire and grenades, or just close with him and break him like a kit-kat bar.
And if the power used by the biotic is that charge ability, all that would do is get him right where the chief needs him. You hit the chief with that power, you'll be using space magic to pull yourself into a brick wall that can hit you back, and reacts faster than you can. use biotic charge, you'll die faster for it. Its that simple.
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Also: I get it, people like shepherd. I have nothing against the guy, he's a great character, great leader, great protagonist. But he's only a great combatant in HIS universe. Maybe in starcraft and starwars (unless ghosts, jedi, and sith are involved) but against the best super soldier of an army of supersoliders, he's not going to be able to beat someone whose got higher stats in every single category.
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How about we call this one a draw, since there are way to many variables with both sides and I'm losing sleep over this battle.
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Chief hasΒ two things Shepard does notΒ a Smart A.I. and Luck
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Chief doesn't need super powers or a team to help him save the Galaxy, he only needs cannon fodder.
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MC. Strength, Stealth, and speed all go MC way
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You know what would happen? Shepard would get ready to attack with some kind of super weapon and then..... He would trip. The chief has luck so then shepherd gets up and tries to shoot him again, but a random muscle spasm would send his shot off wide. Then MC would pull out a binary rifle and instantly turn shepherd into dust so that the writers can't have another cop-out revival like In mass effect 2.
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Kinda funny that no one took in account that Mass Effect Weapons are highly advanced Mass Accelerators.
Based on that and overall higher tech grades on MEs side, well i doubt that chiefs armor would work well against that, and i highly doubt that chief could "dodge" such weapons fire and/or seeking/projected Biotics.
And i doubt that a Shield and Armor designed to withstand fire from higly advanced Mass Accelerators would give a shit about conventional fired bullets such as UNSC toys. And Plasma/Laser/Blah weapons, well Shep still got Armor, and if it has Kinetic Energy, the Shield will at least weaken the hits.
On Augmentations, well Sheps Body is Augmented since ME2. (not in such physics defying way as Chief, althou i still find it funny how fast and strong Spartans are in cutscenes, and how slow and weak in gameplay... always funny)
Now Biotics, uh well, that would kinda suck for Chief, floating in air, beeing freezed in a biotic field, getting skypunched, beeing slamed around like a ball, getting crushed, beeing pulled into a vortex...
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This is fairly late, hope you don't mind the super late reply
First, Chief's armor is coming from 3-400 years into the future from the Mass Effect timeline. That aside, the weapons in Mass Effect are not all that much stronger compared to Halo weapons, I mean, let's look at the Carnifex and the UNSC Magnum, both pistols are labeled considered magnums of their respective universes. As you know when firing a gun, the energy goes forward, with the bullet, and backward, into you, we can judge how much recoil both weapons create, when both guns fire nothing more than the weapon "jumping" up happens. What this means is that both weapons are putting out roughly the same kinetic force, which means Chiefs armor would have no problem getting hit by one of Shepard's guns. As for the comment on whether or not he can dodge the fire, must I really comment on that? In The Fall of Reach, we learn that John-117 was able to dodge point blank machine gun fire, even if we assume that this machine gun was just a modern day machine gun and nothing better, that means a young John was dodging supersonic bullets at point blank range.
I have already proved that Halo weapons are roughly as strong as the 'average' Mass Effect weapons (by that I mean assault guns, shotguns, pistols, and snipers). I don't feel I have to say how its stupid to assume Shepard wouldn't get hurt from weapons that deal the exact same amount of kinetic force as his/her own weapons.
Augmentations, John wins. I don't even understand why you opened that can of worms.
Biotics don't really factor in. They don't really effect heavily armored opponents, or opponents with shields for that matter. Shepard would first have to get John's shields down (which, I mean, would be difficult in and of itself given that ME guns leave trails which John would be able to see and react to well before the projectile got anywhere close), than maybe biotics would work.
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Ill keep this short, so i wont list every flaw:
1: Both timelines are very different, and when you really look into the background, MEs tech is more advanced than Halos (Halo Human tech at least) in many terms, simply even by the fact that many equipment and items in ME and not just human made, and based on technology of races spacetraveling since millenias or even millions of years (repear tech).
2: A projectile being accelerated causes only a fraction (not even fucking 10%) of what is called "recoil", its the expanding gas of the propelant leaving the muzzle after the bullet.
And now think about what a mass accelerator uses, hint: its NOT a chemical combustion aka gunpowder. And dont get started on MEs weapons Muzzleflashs, thats a combined effect of accelerator discharge and air friction, you can look that up on real railguns, so dont try to argue that that would cause major recoil. And in multiple sources in ME there is explained that ME fields are used to even reduce that little recoil, even more.
So nope, sorry, you havnt proven anything except that youre knowledge about newtonic physics and especially guns is rather basic.
3: On Augments, yeah Halo wins on that in blunt force, but we really dont know what shepards augmentations actually do except that they dont give him super humand strength, but boost his class specific abilities significantly depending on what class the player choosed.
4: So Halos particle shields now also magically counteract gravity and mass? Oh right, sure, then why does "John" not fly around like superman?
Explaination: Biotics is controlling Micro Masseffect Fields, aka mass and gravitation, to be able to counteract those would mean to be able to use an at least equal counterforce.
5: So you really believe that he could react to projectiles flying at fractions of light speed. yeah sure, that would requiere reaction times in the milliseconds, and here comes the funny part, an mental reaction is not enough, a body would also need to be albe to act on it, in short: accelerate parts of his own body with such speeds that he would rip himself apart to evade those, otherwise the "reaction" would just being a simple "Jup, thats gonna hit me". thats also a part of newtonic law, something Halo is know for just ignoring.
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1. Uh, except the humans in Halo have begun to reverse engineer Covenant weapons, which are reverse engineered Forerunner weapons. So, no, ME isn't much more advanced than Halo.
2. This is from the Mass Effect wiki "However, mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy. This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within, but weapon recoil is still the prime limiting factor on slug velocity." I assumed you had read that when making my statement.
I could also have pointed out how, in Mass Effect 1, when one of your teammates shoots Saren, his head barely moves. ME slugs are made to send the most force they can into their target, and that barely bobbed Saren's head.
Skipped 3 because we both agree on that.
4. Uh, no. Shielded targets, even targets that don't use biotics like Prime Geth, which are just heavily shielded, heavily armored Geth, aren't effected by biotics.
5. First, its not traveling that fast (again, the recoil is directly tied to how much force the slug is hitting with, faster speed means more force). Second, just after getting the augmentations all of the Spartans reacted at something like 20 milliseconds, MJOLNIR VI also increases a Spartans reaction time by the same factor over the older models. This puts his reaction time at .8 seconds or 80 nano-seconds and with Cortana its 72 nano-seconds. Than figure in the MJOLNIR also directly interfaces with his mind, as soon as he thinks it the armor will move even if he hasn't yet. So...
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1. Judging by what the USMC fields, it cant be very advanced.
2. And? Like i already told you, a Mass Accelerator used magnetic fields, not chemical propelants, there is no propelant gas causing large recoil.
Just to give an example, firing a regular 5,56mm, only 6-8% (depending on the bullet, barrel and muzzle break) of the recoil is due to the projectile being accelerated, the rest is by the propelant gas leaving the muzzle.
Firing a bullet of the same size and mass from a Railgun, or Mass Accelerator at the same speed, would produce les than 10% of the recoil a chemical propelled 5,56mm would cause.
So just by that, a Mass Accelerator could easly be more than 10 times more powerfull than a chemical propeled weapon while having the same recoil force, and that still leaves "This is mitigated somewhat by the mass effect fields that rounds are suspended within" out of the calculation. Thats simple newtonic law.
Watch at least ballistic gel getting hit by a regular bullet, watch where most of the force goes, or read up on ballistic wound tunnels, then think about "head bobbing". Just a hint, the energy doesnt just go in one direction.
4: Thats because "shields" in ME are Masseffect Fields, my comment on halo dude flying around was sarcastic.
The reason why shielded enemies, or enemies with biotic barrieres, depending on the strengh of those defences, dont get thrown around by biotics is that their own mass effect field based defence systems counteract those.
And thats the thing, MEs shields are Mass Effect Fields themselfs, every source i can find on halos shields say they are particle fields, which selfexplaining cant counteract gravitational force.
5: Remember that MEs projectiles are really tiny? like size of large sand pieces? That means they got much les mass than todays regular bullets, which means even to have the same impact force as a halo magnum, they would have to be much much more faster.
For comparison, lets just say we take a .45 Magnum round as example.
.45 Magnum Bullet = 15 gram mass, 1357 joul muzzle force. the bullet has to reach a muzzle velocity of 430 m/s to create that much impact force, which btw is its muzzle velocity.
Now lets take a, like MEs Codex says, large sand grain sized bullet, out of steel. lets just say its a 1mm sphere, thats a volume of 0.524mmΒ³, at a desity of 7,86 g/cmΒ³ since its made out of steel, which results in a projectile weight of: 0,00411864 grams.
Now here comes math again: 0,00411864 gram mass, 1357 joul muzzle force. the bullet has to reach a muzzle velocity of 25671 m/s to create that much impact force.
430 compared to 25670 fucking METERs per fucking SECOND.
So, what did you say again?
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1. Compared to the frigates in Mass Effect? Or the armor? The only thing Mass Effect has that makes them seem more advanced are the mass accelerators, and they don't put them on everything.
2. Ok, I don't get how this is going over your head.
If the Avenger, let's say, was able to shoot a grain of sand and have it hit with the same force as getting hit by a medium sized car, that impact-force would be put onto the person firing, thus the whole "mass accelerators produce recoil equal to their impact energy". Do you get it now? The force the round hits with is going forwards, with the projectile, and backwards, creating recoil. This is the information the game itself sets up.
I'm not expecting it to go one way. Go watch a watermelon get shot by a 9mm, or even a larger magnum. A watermelons more elastic form blows up, the more rigid human skull will fare better, but there will be much more movement then him just nodding.
4. Where did you find this information? Its not in the wiki anywhere (an I am too lazy to go looking through the Codex).
Even assuming this is true, we've seen powerful Biotics like Samara, Jack, and Miranda throw people around in cut scenes, and the leader of the Sisterhood Wasea was able to throw around a huge cargo container, but for all that power the Shockwave wont move a Geth Prime because it has weaker mass effect fields (I'm assuming it takes more power to pick up a fully grown asari and throw her around the room than it does to take down the shield of a Prime.)? Come on.
5. Rounds in ME aren't moving that fast. Go test this for yourself, I took a Carnifex in the range in ME3, set the targets to long rang (roughly 20 m I'd hazard a guess), the round took 16 seconds to hit. I'm sorry sir, they are not moving no 26K meters/second.Β This is demonstrable in game.
John would easily, easily, dodge anything Sheperd shot at him, even at point blank.
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1: Pretty much everything, if you want to talk frigates, go luck up what systems are used on the Normandy 2 for example, compare that to a UMSC frigate.
2: So you dont get the concept of mass? Well, ill try to explain it to you, when you transmit kinetic force, there are various aspects that you need to consider to guess what will happen, the 3 most important aspects are the Kinetic Force, Mass of the objects, and transfere surface.
Just an example, when a wall hits you with 1357 Joul, thants not much, thats like pushing you around a bit, when a small object hits you with that force, its a big deal, it cant transfere all its energy into you fast enough so it keeps moving, right into or even thru you. Those are the rules of kinetic transfere. And that applies vise versa.
If you now still dont get it, then please for the love of god, stay away from any kind of job that includes simple physics, since newtonic law and kinetic transfere really is 8th and 9th grade lecture, and so far youve failed to understand both.
4: urgh... "Biotics is the ability of some lifeforms to create mass effect fields using element zero nodules embedded in body tissues."
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Biotβ¦
5: 16 seconds for 20m? XD
Okay stop it, i really dont want to know what you think are seconds.
16 seconds, ya know if you would throw something, and it would need 16 seconds to travel 20m, then it would even reach its target since gravity on for example earth pull everything down with 9,8m/sΒ², so it would fall faster than it flies, in short your assumption, is nothing than just a huge joke. And btw, if you want to go by gameplay, all mass accelerator weapons in ME3 are hitscan by code, so they dont even have a traveling projectile by code, what you see is only a particle effect.
Now with that said, thanks for the laughter, it was really amusing, especially that "16 seconds for 20m" thing.
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1. The most advanced thing the Normandy has on board is the mass accelerators, everything else is done in Halo, and somethings are even done better (AIs, for instance).
2. I was using that as an example. Here's another one:
A magnum with the same hitting force as a sniper would give the same recoil as a sniper rifle would.
4. Not that, the bit about biotics not working on shielded targets because they have shields.
5. Its really funny when you realize the target range I was talking about was in space, on the Citadel which has how knows how much or how little gravity.
That aside, I did say it was roughly 20 meters and even my 16 seconds was a rough approximation.
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1: Disruptor Torpedos, Thanix Cannon, Antiproton Thrusters, Silaris Armor, Drive Core...
2: You fail at physics yet again.
4: Mentioned a few times ingame + logic.
5: Even without gravity, you fail to see the point, by your assumption the projectile would have been traveling 1,25m/s, you can run faster, even ingame.
And that you even fail to see this flaw, and defend yourself by "the gravity example doesnt count, hur dur space", makes it even more funny and sad at the same time.
In case you havnt still get it, you posting such a laughable assumption, even believing in it enough to write it, yet even defend it, makes you look like a complete idiot.
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1) yeah... All stuff with mass accelerators.Β
2) this is from in game. Its the rules the game set up, nothing to do with physics.Β
4) its not mentioned, ever.Β
5) no? I flat out said its probably wrong, the space part was meant as a joke.Β
The point was that the buikts are not flying that fast, which means John can dodge them rather easily.Β
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1: Nope, Mass Accelerators are only the guns. You maybe mean Mass Effect Fields, and even those arent in all those systems.
2: The games Lore is largely build around Phsysics, and the statement of MEs Codex itself isnt even wrong, you just forget everything else that comes with that statement, stuff that even applies to your regular guns.
No you, you read 1 line of text, and your brain takes it for the holy grail, ignoring everything else.
4: Mentioned in ME1 and ME2.
5: Funny, no matter by what you want to go, Lore or Gameplay, they are faster. If you want to go by Lore, then those tiny metal projectiles have to be much much faster than regular bullets to spot any kind of dangerous kinetic force, and if you want to go by Gameplay, then sorry to tell you again, the guns are programmed as Hitscan weapons, meaning they dont even have a projectile gameplaywise. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan
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1)things which effect mass are the only things that ME has that's more advanced then what humans in Halo have.
2) What else is there that effects the recoil of the gun? The 'mass effect field mitigate the recoil' stuff? I didn't want to have to point this out bit the magnum in halo is being used by MC, a seasoned gum user and someone with superstrength, and it STILL has that much recoil. Which means its hitting with a whole ton of force.
4) no, its not. They don't saw why botics don't effect things with shields. Besides that, biotics still won't effect a Prime even after its shields are brought down.
5) no. If we go by lore they are larger than what is stated, unless you can prove that they aren't this is a viable option.
Gameplay wise, still no. They have mom hitscan weapons as well. On top of all this there's an anime which shows bullets firing and they are moving at 'regular' speeds (I.e. not 2000 meters a second).
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1: I listed multiple stuff thats more advanced.
2: Like i told you about 3 times now, the acceleration of an projectile is only a small part of recoil, aka most of the recoil on your chemical magnum is not the acceleration of the projectile itself, but the venting gas.
4: Heck there is even a fucking tooltip when you played on of the games "if a target is unaffected by biotics, try dropping its shield or barrier"...
5: By lore, small arms Mass Accelerators are miniature Railguns, firing tiny metal slugs suspended in a mass effect field to lighten their mass while accelerating to reach speeds previously imposible, the slugs are sheared off an a solid metal block inside the gun, a single block can supply thousands of rounds, so they cant be very big.
Gameplaywise, every kind of Mass Accelerator is a hitscan, the only expection in for example ME 3 are Plasma Guns, Grenade or Rocket/Missile Launchers, or some other fancy ass gun like the Disc Launcher or Blackstar.
Ah yes, the anime, the one that isnt viewed canon by mass effects writers? right.
Want me to take THAT youtu.be/OESmU4LYl7U?t=6m37s also as canon? Gimme a break, thats just ridiculous.
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1) all stuff that uses some variation of mass fields/accelerators.
2) Recoil is the equal but oppiset force that's pushing the bullet out. The Newton's 3rd law, all the recoil you feel is the force that sent the bullet flying.
4) That still doesn't answer how shields counteract biotics (especially when used by biotics much more powerful than the shield itself).
5) It says nothing of the speed and nothing else I could find makes any comment on how fast the bullet is moving. The rounds could be larger, they could be firing faster, those are to viable options. Prove one is false (prove not just claim).
There is no guide as to what is cannon in ME.
With adrrenain rush, Shepard is able to dodge bullets, the bullets are not flying at thousands of meters a second and the fact that Shepard, who is many times slower than John in every way, can dodge them then John can dodge them.
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1: Not all of them, but question is why wouldnt they if they have access to that kind of technology?
2: Newtons 3rd law is Action = Reaction. not "blah is equal to blah", due to the rules of Mass, Energy Transfere Rate, Acceleration vs Mass, Compression, Density, Momentum and flexibility (i could even list more), the force would only be equal when both objects (the one being accelerated, and the one accelerating it) have the same properties, but they arent.
The acceleration and impact of a projectile are not the same, accelerating it is a longer process than the impact. That means the force of the acceleration is slower transfere of kinetic energy than the impact, aka the transfere rate is not equal.
The heavier object (the gun, and the person holding it) are harder to move than the small object (the projectile) as they have different mass, density and size, the energy transfere is lower.
The person holding the gun is made out of softer and more flexibile material, part of the energy transfered gets dispersed by bending, stretching and compressing, thats all kinetic movement absorbing energy.
On a chemical gun, the projectile is accelerated by the build up of highly compressed gas inside the guns barrel, between the projectile and the case, once the bullet leaves the barrel, all the force that accelerated it leaves the barrel to, thats is like a short burst of a rocket engine (same physical principal, highly compressed chemical reaction gas leaves a nuzzle)
The barrel is not in centermass of the gun, resulting in part of the energy being transfered into a rotation motion (muzzle climb)
3: Logic and Assumptions based on the given events. When a Biotic projectile gets stopped by a wall, it must have interaction with mass in some way, aka will propably also react to a mass effect fields based shield.
4: You cant prove anything that doesnt exist.
And it mentiones that "Accelerator design was revolutionized by element zero . A slug lightened by a mass effect field can be accelerated to greater speeds, permitting projectile velocities that were previously unattainable." That alone suggests that they are faster than what we currently can achieve. But since there is no given exact numbers brainles fangirls can go by, you have to use your brain, logic and physics, take what you have to make plausible assumption. You see the firerates ingame, so thats not an viable option. Bullets must be very small, described by the ammo block and "deadly paintchip" joke, they are propably much smaller than regular bullets, means they spot les mass and need more speed to spot a viable impact force, otherwise there would be no point in using such high tech compared to chemical.
Shepards is never able to dodge bullets, even in the slow motion, especially in the slow motion, you can see that impact particle effects start before the bullet particle effect reaches you. yeah thats Hitscan, what you see as dodging bullets is just the particle effect simulating a bullet, but hey, would be visually boring if we just got instant beams like in ME1, right? Pretty bullet particles flying around you at visualy slow speed are more appealing to the eye, if you would take that effect as the actuall bullet speeds, that i would have to inform you that most bullet particle effects in Halo fly below 300ms visually.
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1) ME is only more advanced the Halo in this 1, single aspect. They can apply it however they want, its still the application of a single technology.
2) I don't understand how those is so hard to comprehend.
Hypothetically, a gun fires a bullet at that will hit with 5 joules, those 5 joules goes forward (with the bullet) and backward (into the gun/operator), that is recoil. That is "every action has an equal and opposite reaction".
3) There are cutacenes where the biotic (Jack, Miranda, Samara) through people clear across rooms, we'll say 100 pound people. Prime's shield go out after approx 20 shots (let's say, don't actually know), which means their shields can withstand approx 4 pounds (each round is hitting with .2 pounds, assuming a velocity of 460 m/s and hits with 1300 joules).
That means those biotic's biotics > Prime's shield, and Primes still aren't effected by biotics.
4) they are PROBABLY smaller, yes. By how much? You don't know, that doesn't give you an exact size so you are just saying 'its this small because ????? And so it's going 20K m/s,' that's illogical.
5) The fact that you can dodge them at all means that John-117 can. End of story.
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