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The-Devils-Corpse — DBR: Saiyan Transformations
#ape #ball #berserk #blue #broly #destruction #dragon #dragonballgt #dragonballz #god #goku #great #gt #instinct #legendary #oozaru #ozaru #rosé #rose #saiyajin #saiyan #saiyans #super #supersaiyan #trunks #ultra #vegeta #z #dragonballsuper #ultrainstinct
Published: 2012-09-26 23:39:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 179125; Favourites: 989; Downloads: 0
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Description
Notes:So, to start things off with this interpretation of the chart, most of the description is no longer on the deviation itself. The unfortunate truth is that this page became way, way too long because the DB franchise never stops adding transformations. There will inevitably be more Saiyan transformations on the horizon, too. They drive merchandise sales.
Anyway, you can now find all the information in this Google Doc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…
As always, there's no need to ask about whether I will be including a form or why I haven't added any potential new transformations to the chart. This document will likely be kept up to date with at least acknowledging new forms as they're revealed. However, I will still be waiting for them to fully debut in the their respective media (anime, manga, games, whatever) before deciding what I'm doing with them in regards to the project.
-*-*Disclaimer*-*-
The series of submissions labeled under the title of DB Redux are part of a fan rewrite of the official series. Anything that you see in the art or description that varies from the original manga or anime sources is most likely intentional. While I appreciate that you are taking the time to look at my gallery and notice these differences, I do not require a comment on what needs "correcting" because it wasn't "originally like that".
However, if you'd like to discuss these changes, or the project in general, you're welcome to join my DB Redux Discord server for the community members, an early look at finished & WIP character art and links to full battle power lists.
Thank you, and please enjoy!
Dragon Ball (Z, GT, etc.), copyright to Toriyama Akira, Shueisha, Toei Animation, etc.
No part of this gallery may be reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of The-Devils-Corpse
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Comments: 689
Using both eye colors would be teetering on the edge of needing to make it a new form. Since the Ozaru Harnessed SS itself is basically just SS with the yellow eyes, so long as you don't lose your temper.
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I mean, it's just the eye color that's different though, it's not like anything else would change beyond that. Didn't Ozaru Harnessed SS in the movie also keep the green aura that Broli had been using throughout the whole movie; so that would be another thing different about the form that wouldn't be for Berserk, since it's aura is already green before the Ozaru stuff gets added to it.
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I do like this map a lot. But did you forget Berserker Super Saiyan 4 or purposedely ignore it?
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What? If you're talking about Broli's SS4 transformation, I'm not counting it as a separate thing. It's just the shape his body transforms into for the form, like with all the others.
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Well, since you did count all the others as a separate thing, I wondered why you didn't with SS4. Unless I didn't really understand your map correctly.
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The other Broli variations are deviations from the normal transformation designs used by other characters. Goku/Vegeta/Trunks don't grow like 3 feet and quadruple their mass in SS1/2/3 the way Broli does. But being an Ozaru based transformation, SS4 is capable of making Goku adult sized despite being a kid. So I'm making it a trait of the form, rather than add another unnecessary branch.
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So what you're saying is that Super Saiyan 4 makes the user undertake his most battle ready form? Ok, that's a good take on it.
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(I wonder how many facepalms and scowls I'll get with this one)
If Goku Black's impure variant of Super Saiyan God (canonically SSJB) is Rosé, then would his base Saiyan God equivalent be Apple Martini?
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His blue alt is from rosé wine, so his red alt is Super Saiyan Verde (from vinho_verde ).
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I honestly wasn't aware that you had upgraded the description for this, since the image hasn't changed. So I'm guessing you're finally finished with all the mechanics behind Redux's Saiyan transformations then?
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Kind of? Since I updated the text, it was revealed that Toriyama's designs/script only had Broli transform into a normal Super Saiyan. The green Legendary/Berserk form was something Shintani added because it was nostalgic and he wanted to see it run wild in the film. Meaning Toriyama had no intention of tying his new Broli back to the old Broli or Kale and their giant mess of green-based transformations. And that's also the reason it didn't get a better name or explanation in the film...
I'm tired of all this, so I'm keeping Broli and Kale's transformation entries as is, for now. Mostly so I have something slightly concrete to point to for people who ask about what I'm doing with them for the moment. But honestly, I want to wait and (hopefully) see what happens in regards to the plot point dropped at the film's end about Broli eventually potentially controlling his power before I once ago assess what I'm doing with them for good. Will New Broli just lose the green form in the future? Will he gain a smaller "controlled" form like Kale? Will he just control the buff green form? Or will it be something else entirely...? Should I just say the hell with it and remove the green form from Broli like Toriyama originally intended? Find out next time...
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If you don't mind, could you please give me a link for the source that states that the new Broly wasn't supposed to go LSSJ in the movie?
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"For Cheelye and Lemo, I basically drew them to be as faithful to Toriyama’s designs as possible. Broli was a different story, though. The only designs I received were up to him wearing his armor, and it gave off a very different impression than the Broli of the past. Personally, I had a very strong image of Broli based on the previous movies, so I created my own design for him at Full Power from scratch. I just had the urge to see him lose his shirt and run wild at the end. Toriyama had stated that he didn’t want him to be overly macho, so I aimed to make him look as huge as possible, yet still within the confines of not going overboard with it." --Naohiro Shintani
www.kanzenshuu.com/2019/02/13/…
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I mean, as is, Broly's transformations kind of tie him into the manga's continuity, since Kale's forms in that are pretty much the same as Broly's, what with the blank-eyed berserk Super Saiyan forms that ends up buffing up immensely once they reach their "full power"; it would even explain why Goku and Vegeta never tried using any of their enhancements to Blue, since as of the latest chapter Vegeta seems to be using his "evolved" Blue from the ToP as more of a replacement to SSB, which does kind of fit with the theory that it's nothing more than a "Mastered" Super Saiyan Blue that gets rid of all the weaknesses SSB and Perfected SSB had. Plus, the movie does have Broly regain his eyes right before he gets teleported away from Gogeta's Kamehameha, which would make it the first time in the entire franchise that Broly has ever been shown with normal eyes while in his "Legendary" form, which could possibly lead to the idea of him gaining full control over the state eventually...
Either way...am I right to assume that the connection you made between Super Saiyan (Ōzaru Harnessed) and Hitōzaru might be foreshadowing something in the future of your product, or was that just stated as a way to tie up any loose ends with the forms?
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Would Goku and Vegeta hypothetically be able to perform the god ritual on someone else since they managed to reclaim divine ki, or is it that rather than having an understanding of what ki channels are in use, they just remember what it felt like to use the power? If it's the latter, does that mean they've re-unlocked the divine ki channels or are they just emulating them?
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Their body adapted to the divine channels that were in use and instinctually "evolved" to prevent them from closing fully/reopened them after the ritual was reversed (or supposed to be). However, knowing which ones are in use within their body doesn't mean they know how to actually perform the ritual itself to start the process in someone else.
In short it's like trying to cook a food dish. They went to a restaurant and were given their food. They took home some leftovers and know the general ingredients that make it up, but they don't have the recipe itself to recreate it.
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Ah that makes sense given the Saiyan specialty in adapting. So keeping in line with the analogy, False God would be like trying to recreate the dish based only on pictures?
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Yeah, that's a pretty applicable way to look at it.
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Cool, thanks for the answer. I must say that I really do like the ki channel concept, it doesn't take away from the mysticism of it (I personally think it adds to it) yet it adds some well-needed explanations. Especially when it comes to the Super Saiyan forms.
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I was just wondering, in the GT portion of DB Redux, what's the Watsonian reason that Goku or Vegeta didn't try to emulate Future Trunks to achieve Super Saiyan: False God?
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Just out of sight, out of mind. For the most part, anyway. Trunks isn't around to explain exactly how he reached it, and...well...
The original plan was for the whole god vibe of the Super era to be removed, along with Beerus & Whis being out of the picture (back when there used to be long naps) and the God forms being phased out. Goku would adapt some of those GT elements; he's a bit more mature and a little bored, too. In the end, he'd go from a relatively normal day to being overwhelmed by Baby so quickly that the path to "SS4" just sort happens before he has a chance to thinking about it all. Afterwards, he has that new power and his Saiyan instincts decide to explore that for a while and see where that will leads. None of the events that happen after (Janenba, Super 17, the dragons) are too far out of their league that they NEED to the god forms to handle them, so they just kind of roll with it.
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Makes sense. I just assumed that Trunks achieved SSRage after Vegeta told him about the ki manipulation used to harness divine ki in the Time Chamber, but if he figured it out on his own somehow...
And 17 is much weaker in this verse, I take it? Since DBS 17 had hit god-tier, so Super 17 should be even stronger...
Though I thought they'd at least try it to achieve a god form to fight Omega Shenron?
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If Super Saiyan: Berserk God is a berserker variant of Super Saiyan: False God, then why is it 12 times stronger instead of 6 times?
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Because that's what I need it to be. lol
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I do not envy you when having to update this every time there's a new dragonball movie or series.
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I like this a lot, but I’m wondering why you went back to the canon terminology instead of sticking with Saiyan God for the Red transformation, and Super Saiyan God for Blue?
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With the increasing number of transformations, I just wanted to parse things down to simpler/easier to understand name branding. And while it may seem like I'm complicating it more again now that red & blue are back to being longer, it's mostly to help with the other forms (SSBerserk, SSRage, Instinct, etc) and ones that may exist in the future. It helps me feel like I'm maintaining more consistency than having to deal with clunky names like Berserk False Super Saiyan God or whatever.
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Makes sense.
Also, um, I was just re-reading the updated description, and you’ve written the project name for the Red transformation as ‘Saiyan Saiyan God’.
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Oi, thanks. Fixed.
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So Mister Corpse. How does your version of Ultra Instinct work?
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The description has been updated to be current (whatever that means in this dumb, never ending franchise).
Art changes/additions will have to be done later when I have more time.
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So is the image, or at least the description, ever going to be updated with the additional Broli forms?
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Why is Super Saiyan God not 50 times Saiyan God so it becomes x10,000,000?
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I don't like unnecessary power bloat. The numbers would be absurd.
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I will not deny that is absurd, but yours just says it's an amp to the Saiyan God state so that it isn't just Saiyan God + Super Saiyan, as well, now that I reread your descriptions. It would make sense for it in that context to just be an amp. It does make me wonder how you'll handle the Ultra Instinct multiplier, if you do that with this. Please keep working on DBR here, I love what you have done with it.
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Unfortunately, I don’t think I can avoid bloat on the Instinct forms. If the two gray boys in the tournament finale are supposed to be stronger than the Hakaishin, I’m going to do whatever boost is required to close that gap. No real getting around that. Will just have to try and keep it as low as I can to make it all work. :/
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I think you've done a very great job so far and I still want to see where you'll go later. Keep up the DBR lore!
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So, how are you feeling about the approach to formes seen in the manga ToP? Blue Kaioken (of sorts) being delayed until Geran feels more appropiate than debuting at Hit if you ask me. And we still have to see if Vegeta invents Grades for Blue or something (perhaps in a few days we will get an answer)
Still loving the chart, but I'm getting the feeling you'll have yet another rework in your hands come next year...
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That. Is. A. Loaded. Question.
I used to say I was on board with the manga, and I still am to an extent. I really like that it was more consistent at the start with just keeping SSGod around as a form rather than absorbing its power and making a complicated mess. But the more chapters the pass, the less I'm liking what Toyotaro is doing with all the SSGSS variations and power ups... especially the Kaio-ken that's not a Kaio-ken... The combination already exists in the franchise, so just use it rather than make up your own thing that's exactly like it in everything but name.
So far I'm planning to stick with my own form progression schedule.
---
Vegeta's Evolution in the manga was basically just another rage boost like back during the Beerus material. Only, instead of someone slapping his wife, they insulted his pride for the millionth time. Not gonna bother including any version of Evo as a "form".
The biggest headache is, and will continue to be whatever is going on with Broli and Kale. We now have four completely different scenarios with how the forms are handled in the original Broli films, the Super anime, the Super manga, and now the new Broli film. I don't care what is going on with the Legendary/Berserk state at this point, I just wish they'd decide on something consistent.
I also vastly prefer the anime's version of the Instinct forms. Partially because it's hard to match the music and animation those scenes got, but also because the manga seems to be treating it like another transformation that Goku can just use whenever he wants, now that he knows about it. While I wouldn't mind that from the fully activated silver version once 100% mastered, it was way more interesting that the Omen version could only be triggered by things outside of his control in the anime. (Neither should have been a form for real though. Rather than a stat change and altering his appearance, I'd have liked it way more if it was just a technique Goku could use the same way Whis uses it.)
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To be fair, isn't Goku's thing in the manga supposed to be using that "explosively raising out power" thing Piccolo mentioned to Gero back during their brief fight? Even then, wasn't Goku doing something similar with the Kaioken throughout the entire Namek Saga, to the point that it showing up at all when King Kai said he actually was using it against Frieza something the anime added in for convenience? It'd make sense for Goku to trying using that concept with Perfected Super Saiyan Blue by forcing the ki back out in a sort of Grade-like state.
Also, for the UI forms, it seems more like, at least at this point in time, that Omen is something that Goku can access at will, but he needs to build up to the Mastered version over time, and said form still only lasts like a minute at most due to how draining it is on him. Even then, I honestly like that approach better than how the anime takes it, since Ultra Instinct is still a thing Goku has no control over even after mastering it, to the point he still can't access it without being pushed to his proverbial limits, which is probably only being done so that Toei can still say that Beerus is stronger than Goku and Vegeta, since Ultra Instinct isn't a reliable form to use, and so that they can still make Ultra Instinct this epic transformation whenever they end up using it again.
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Erm, sorry, didn't intend it to be a loaded question, really!
And yeah, agreeing with how Vegeta's Evo feels like an asspull in both media (and also, seeing how so far the Broli concept art disregards it, well...); I could have bought him trying to go Grade 1 or Super Saiyan 2 as Blue, to try to achieve something similar to Goku going Kaioken as Blue (and it ending up ammounting to nothing vs Geran), but, alas, I gotta agree that as it is, it is just poor taste.
I'd guess waiting for the Broli film to give us better insight in the Berserk stuff would be wise, but I'm afraid we will have to endure plenty of inconsistency and back and forth by early 2019. And if the super manga continues beyond the ToP, the Broli movie seems to be the very next stop... bit of a mess that will take a bit of time, and Toei will probably be the least consistent handler of that to boot.
(And, call it wishful thinking, but I'm going to assume UI will end up not being consistently attainable in the manga as well; and, in any case, it doesn't seem to be featured in the movie either; personally I'm going with the Gogeta rumor)
Thanks for your time in any case!
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always loved your work, what is the Berserk Super Saiyan's strength multiplier?
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I forgot I didn't update with my numbers for them when I changed everything else to include those forms in the project. Fixed it, though for now it's just based on my old Broli stuff. I didn't adapt them for Kale or Toriyama's new Broli, so they're kinda meaningless.
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Only problem is SSR is SSJ 1 
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The anime ignored Toriyama's notes on the matter. He was always supposed to have the blonde forms.
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No, cause the model for Goku Black only has him as Base form and Rose. And the guide says that Rose is indeed his version of Super Saiyan 1.
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Yes, Toriyama's design only shows him in base and Rosé, but the notes on the page he can become a Super Saiyan like Goku, and a new type of Super Saiyan (Rosé) as well. That was Toriyama's plan for him. The anime just didn't stick to it.
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