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wingsofwrath β€” Wot Contest Comic

Published: 2012-05-20 16:15:40 +0000 UTC; Views: 24447; Favourites: 328; Downloads: 1022
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Description This is a short comic for a contest over at World of Tanks.[link]

The deadline was brutally short (6 days, and it fell right into the most hectic week of the past two months), so it didn't come out quite as good as I hoped, but still it was fun to do, because I've been toying with the idea of drawing a WOT comic for quite some time and this contest merely gave me the best opportunity to get off my lazy ass and actually do it.
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Comments: 135

BattleHamsterReturns In reply to ??? [2012-05-22 16:01:38 +0000 UTC]

The part about the scientists identifying when first lies are used and under what conditions is of course true . If i may quote the character β€œ House β€œ from the show with the same name : Everybody lies . I do not know ( nor is it my business to know ) from what society you hail from but generally speaking mankind right now does not prefer the truth , i am sorry to say that you got that as wrong as possible . We are living in an age of obfuscation , deceit , indirect means and cats-paws . We are living in an age in which perception is reality ( thanks to mass media ) , since reality cannot be changed ( unless you are basically God ) people try to shape perception in order realize their goals . And how better to change / shape perception but with lies ? : ))
Surprisingly the situation is counter intuitive when it comes to lies and truth for mankind . The bigger and bolder the lie the more people will believe it . Sure truth is easier to tell but men would rather be told and believe lies . Politics of all types is a good example .

You have mentioned that you have friends in the gaming industry and that from your experience they genuinely care about their product . Ok i agree but consider this : the talented creative people that actually make the games are only a part of the company / companies that sell the public the product . Sure they may be well intentioned but their bosses and the higher up can and are actively overruling design decisions and making changes themselves that have nothing to do with the quality of the game per say , but with profits . It was my fault , i should have specified this from the start , i do so now : it is not the creative game makers themselves that i have a problem with but with their bosses . Let me give you an example : Sword of the Stars 2 , nice game but was released totally broken . It took 6 months of patches ( 46 patches so far ) to fix it . The guys whom actually made the game are talented , the rest of the company are anything but .
It is not ludicrous for them to make you grind more . By making you grind they keep you on the server longer thus having a bigger active player base . The more people that grind the higher the chance that some of them will resort to β€œ Gold β€œ . They create the problem and they offer you the solution which in turn benefits them , Hegelian dialectics , tried and true in politics . The actual qualities of the machines in question are not relevant to the issue . All that matters is that they are added . Notice how some new machines are added every few months ? They calculate how long it would take the grind to get them and for people to get bored of them . After the grind / play is over they add new ones ( French SPG 's and TD 's and then a second line of german Td’s in the near future ) and the cycle repeats itself .
The B1 incident is standard for the machine , i too used a B1 to kill 2 other B1β€˜s , just shoot their huge hull gun , damages every time .
You tell me that you enjoy the KV series . Nothing wrong with that however you should consider the changes not on the particular but on the universal scale . They added β€œ new β€œ machines while doing little work , they made some cosmetic changes to the Kv 1 - 2 , they simply added a standard Kv 3 turret to a kv 1 and called it a t-150 , they lengthened the t-150 in both hull and turret and called it a kv 4 . Drug dealers use the same trick , sell the product in a different form ones in a while to give the illusion of novelty . . . . ha ha ha ha . . . see how cynical i am ? : ) Just joking .
The issue of the match maker has been tackled by more competent people them me . Their conclusion is a clear one : it is a disaster for the reasons that i gave you last time . If you are curious read the MM dedicated tread on the forum , 40 pages of horror , the Devs don’t even bother to answer . Go read for yourself .

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

wingsofwrath In reply to BattleHamsterReturns [2012-05-22 18:33:50 +0000 UTC]

While I'll agree with you completely on the subject of the media, state and corporate propaganda and so on and so forth and their use of, to quote you, "obfuscation , deceit , indirect means and cats-paws", when was it really any different? All the above mentioned means are far from modern inventions and their use can be traced back to the earliest written records and most likely dates from when the human species first developed speech...
Having lived my first six first years under a totalitarian pseudo-communist regime run by one guy obsessed with his cult of personality and who considered North Korea's Kim-Il-Sung a worthy example to follow (I'm talking, of course, about pre-1989 Romania under the brutal dictatorship of Nicolae Ceausescu) I know exactly just how much one can manipulate the public's perception, especially since the things haven't changed that much on this front.
But even so, one can see that at least in the most advanced and democratic countries (Norway, Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands) even the level of "public and political" lying is a lot less than it used to be twenty, fifty or a hundred years ago. From this point of view, I'd say that our species is gradually getting better overall.
Of course, if one however takes the US as an example, one should keep in mind that the "States" are only technologically advanced - ideologically they can be seen to be at least 100 years behind, with their mindless adherence to "corporate culture" (basically, any big corporation, if reduced to an individual, is the equivalent of a sociopath), compliance with the state's official viewpoint masquerading as "patriotism", callous disregard for their citizen's welfare in the name of "personal liberty" (really, you can fund a state sponsored mail and free library system but a working health system is an "unreasonable expense", when healthy citizens are simply the most valuable resource a state has? And could you find an even more transparent lie?) as well as the completely bonkers idea to put religion , and more specifically one religion in particular, Protestant Christianity, back firmly in the country's "driving seat" at State level, all while maintaining the hypocritical viewpoint of total religious freedom... I mean, faith is supposed to be something strictly personal so I strongly disapprove of people who try to impose their religious viewpoint on everybody, it reeks of narcissism and hubris...

No, what I meant was purely on the private interpersonal level us ordinary human beings interact with one another. That's where I think the truth rather than the lie is most prevalent, and this was where our case study (people who tell pointless lies without any clear purpose) is firmly located.

I think that on this subject at least, we are actually in the same boat, just looking out different windows. If you recall my last reply, I made the point that it was Wargaming's corporate management which "screwed the pooch" on the subject of the comic contest's deadline, which really leaves us to get to the conclusion they are pretty much responsible for all the boneheaded and weird decisions emanating from WA.
However, I'm still not convinced that the idea of making people bypass grinding by buying gold is the primary engine behind releasing new vehicles in a trickle of small updates, because I've never used gold (in my case the one I won on different contest, since I never actually bought any) to bypass any vehicle and adding more vehicles, especially behind me in the tech tree certainly hasn't triggered that particular urge...
I think it all has to do with "keeping people interested" side of the problem and luring new potential players, since people who bought gold in the past are likely to buy gold again to pass any potential obstacle in their chosen path or to go up a new one (you were right about this part at least), but the vast majority have never bought any and aren't tempted to do so (on the contrary, even less tempted to give Wargaming their money) now simply because WA threw a log across their road...

Yeah, B1 is a ludicrous machine, but take that with the original French designers, since as far as I see WA managed to reconstruct quite a good in game likeness considering it's real life capabilities... I don't know what they must have been smoking in that design bureau before the war, but the resulting machines are probably among the most useless tanks in existence. The only things worse would probably roll round if they ever decide to implement an Italian or Japanese line...

Well, out of idle curiosity, I read the full 48 pages of the thread you mentioned, and to tell you the truth, I feel that is mostly the players themselves that are confused, angry, posting contradictory information and some are simply entitled bastards, like those who ask that their favourite tank should get preferential matchmaking...
Sure,like I said, the matchmaker isn't exactly running smoothly at the moment, but between claiming it's broken beyond repair, outright accusations of rigging it for pretty much every reason imaginable (most of them mutually contradictory, from bias towards Russian tanks to bias against a specific tank for no discernible reason, to forcing players pay for gold - well, the last one is at least more plausible), some people who actually blame MM when it's transparently clear from their statistics they're just crap at this game, people complaining on having to pay with gold for extra garage slots (what does that have to do with MM in the first place?) and an absolute lack of concrete ideas on HOW to fix it, I really dont't blame the devs for taking their time to fix such a complex system, especially now that it's officially confirmed they are, in fact, working on it and have been for some time: [link]

The bottom line would be that I think the current system isn't an actual "match-maker" per se but relies too much on random selection and that this is the likely result of Corporate meddling back in the beta days, by setting an unrealistic release date and forcing the devs to fudge it and hope nobody will notice. This is probably also the reason it takes so long to fix it, not because they are actively trying not to or that they are callously disregarding the players' wishes, but because it took a while to convince management of the need to do it in the first place. Really, most of the time -and this is especially true in both large corporations as well as governments- what we perceive as a Machiavellian plan to force us to do something (in this case to buy gold) by presenting us with a purposefully broken product is in fact simply the result of run of the mill managerial incompetence, as you so rightly noted in your Sword of the Stars 2 example.

Also, I don't know about you, but I feel like quoting the end of Cassablanca here in relation to the discussions we're having...

Ball on your side of the court.

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

BattleHamsterReturns In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-23 08:01:40 +0000 UTC]

It is true that the means of deception are as old as man but never were they more prevalent then today .

In my case it is just my first 5 years under Ceausescu , i am luckier then you . Far from me to make assumptions about your native language but i propose that we keep our discussion in English , who knows maybe some one might read it besides us ? Maybe we can illuminate someone ? If i were to change to Romanian our audience would be severely restricted .

I do not believe that our species is improving itself , far from it . As far as i can see the world is gradually turning into something out of Orwel’s 1984 or Huxley’s Brave New World dystopian nightmares .

Your first thoughts on the US are of course true . Keep in mind that the US is probably champion today at the fine art of hypocrisy . Well they have not gone as far Kim Il Sun claiming to be descended from the Gods born atop some Korean version of Olympus , but they might get there eventually . Your thoughts on the supposed religious freedom of the citizens ( sheeple ) of the US give you away as someone with a certain Secular Humanist attitude . Although i am on the exact opposite end of the scale i have nothing against you per say . You are free to go to the northern countries that you mentioned and be as godless as you like , its your life , we all sleep in the beds that we make .

But let me return to the subject at hand . The US uses the same religious system as the Roman Empire ( pre - Constantine ) . This is of course done covertly , let me tell you how it works . Remember how in the Roman Empire you could worship anything you wanted as long as you formally claimed the current Emperor was also God ? Well it is pretty much the same thing today in the US but more covert and refined . The State enters into a contract with what ever church you have have , lets say you are Anton LeVey and you think the devil is very β€œ Kawai β€œ ( jap word used by retard americans in regard to manga cartoons , it means β€œ cute β€œ ) . So you enter into a 501C3 agreement ( you can research this yourself if you want ) with the State , the state give you tax exception status . You are however under contract now and in return for no taxes and maybe some occasional grant ( remember the Mega Churches are a business ) you pledge yourself to cooperate with what ever the State demands , you cannot be critical of the state , you cannot advise your church members on whom to vote for , you cannot go against the policies of the State . Your church becomes a corporation before the state , you answer to the state you answer to Caesar !!! Caesar does not care what sort of Goat you take a fancy to , Caesar want your money and your obedience before his policies . Whom ever you obey last , that is your god . So this is why you have freedom of religion in US . People are free to delude themselves into anything they want ( Scietology ) as long as they ultimately answer before the State / Caesar .

You are incorrect when you say that truth is more prevalent then lies on peoples personal level . If anything most of our social interaction are based on lies . When we go out the door we put on a mask to interact with others , when we are alone we remove it . We fake compassion , we fake respect , we fake interest . Consider this , tell people the truth on the personal level : β€œ No i do not care about your dumb retarded children stupid football match ! Man your wife is cunt ! Your taste in music and dress are atrocious ! β€œ . Of course lies are more prevalent then truth , if we were to tell the truth we would alienate most around us . So we lie and keep them as friends and family . As for pointless lies , there is no such thing . Some lie to further their goals and some lie for the joy of lying , pathological or otherwise lies are never pointless to those whom use them .

You considered some of Wargamings decisions to be boneheaded and weird . They are neither , they are perfectly logical rational decisions based on the ultimate objective of making as much money as possible . The decisions only appear to be wrong because we are tempted to judge them from a gameplay point of view . We must judge them from the economic point of view . This mistake of assuming people whom lead us are fools is a common one : β€œ So and so politician is an idiot ! β€œ , β€œ so and so game dev is an idiot β€œ . These people are not idiots , what they are is very smart thieves .

Watch this link for B1 , it is far more eloquent then i can ever put it : - - - - [link] - - - - if the link does not work simply search for β€œ Failed Tanks β€œ in DA and you will find the presentation on the BlackTail user . There are many interesting presentation there as well , watch those for the Maus , Ferdinand / Elephant , M103 . IS 3 . Reality is nothing like WoT , sadly . The design bureau for the B1 did not smoke anything , they were thieves , they lobbied to get a rust bucket into production , build it as cheaply as possible and sell it for as much as possible . Remember next time you assume someone to be an idiot it might turn out to be far worse , they may be thieves ! Cynical bastard , i know ! but i can usually back up dark view .

Alright , we will see if anything will come of the Devs β€œ efforts β€œ to fix the MM . The question of Malice vs Incompetence is an old one . You are idealistic enough to think its incompetence , i am cynical enough to know its Malice : )

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

wingsofwrath In reply to BattleHamsterReturns [2012-05-23 10:44:35 +0000 UTC]

Amuzant ca ne-am nimerit amandoi a fi romani... O sa tin discutia principala in engleza, dar asa, de pura curiozitate, din ce oras esti? Eu sunt nascut in Cluj, am crescut in Constanta si actualmente locuiesc in Bucuresti...
De asemenea, care este nick-ul tau pe WOT, poate aranjam un pluton din cand in cand- al meu, este, desigur, wingsofwrath.

Moving on to the main discussion, in English:

I used to hold the same view until I got to read some ministerial documents from the 1930's regarding weapons' procurement in Romania, and I discovered, to my amazement, that all the lying cheating, thieving etc. were simply identical then with what they are now. Some time later I read some documents from the late 1800s regarding the construction of the Bucharest Forts and discovered the same was true then. As as species, despite the advent of written and now audio-visual records, we still seem to think that the past is a sort of idealized era in which all the failings of modern society were absent. A mythical time in which humans were more virtuous, less cynical and jaded and society ran more smoothly. Wrong! They were just as flawed, imperfect and selfish as we are, and those in power stole, lied and embezzled just as much, running things into the ground for their own profit...
The thing about dystopian fiction is that we are appalled by it, but at the same time fail to recognise how our own society might be closer to that than we think and we seem to ignore the real historical societies that have been much, much worse (The aforementioned Ceausescu regime comes to mind, as does Nazi Germany, the USSR under Stalin, North Korea, China before they opened up to the west...) The point here is that yes, we might seem to be heading in the direction of an Aldous Huxley/Orwellian nightmare, but that's hardly new, is it? The same thing happened before, around the start of the Cold war, then it gradually relaxed, culminating in the exhilaratingly free 90s, before relapsing into paranoia again in 2001... The problem with history is that it's mainly cyclical, with prior mistakes repeated as the next generation forgets the experiences of the past. And that's it, really. This is the way it's been for thousands of years, and this is probably the way it's going to be for thousands more, despite the invention of audio-visual records, because who but some dusty historians have the time and interest to care about what the guys 100 years ago did anyway? We *know* we must be better than those guys anyway, after all, we have all have these shiny new IMacs and they only had steam and coal to work with...

Which brings us to your example, comparing the US to the Roman Empire - now this is a comparison I've also used before, because it really, really fits. Besides the fact it's unshakable evidence to the cyclical nature of history I was talking about, the conditions really are similar. Having lived a bit in the US (DC, Maryland, Colorado and San Diego, California) I discovered first hand all the flaws that are so well hidden in the system and are glanced over by the media, but also how good a match it is to the aforementioned Roman Empire, and not only in terms of religion. Both entities were huge, federalized states with multi-cultural populations, rather inept central government, an appetite for dubious military ventures and a penchant to consider themselves the greatest nation of the known world despite ample evidence to the contrary... If you'd just bring slavery back you'd have people turn in their business suits for togas... But I digress. Yes I agree with you completely on this one, and while I chuckled when you brought up LaVey (guy really looked like a caricature of Ming the Merciless, didn't he?) the truth remains that this is pretty much the system in place in the US right now, and unfortunately seems to be blooming in Romania as well.
And now a bit of personal clarification: while I am indeed a Secular Humanist, as you so correctly surmised, that doesn't mean I don't respect other people's right to believe in whatever religion they think is right. On the contrary, I think that is one of the inviolable rights us humans should have. On the other hand, I also happen to believe that religious belief is a private thing and should not be made a spectacle of. Because of that, I am very much opposed to the antics of the Romanian Orthodox Church, which is more like a well organized mafia than a legitimate religious authority. I've had the displeasure of seeing some of the leaders of said organization at a private get-together with the leaders of the army, and let me tell you I've never met people that were as vulgar, dirty minded and unholy as they. It's truly a pity I'm not religious, because, boy, would I ever want to see them have their comeuppance and burn in hell for all eternity...

Moving on however, I must concede the point about truth. I'm not sure how I ended up making my initial statement, but my personal cynicism won't let me defend the undependable any longer. My personal theory is that I must have an idealistic streak which pops up every now and again and which did the original talking...
Of course, I myself don't really bother with these kinds of "commonplace" deception and simply call them as I see them, which has garnered me the reputation of being quite rude. But then again, I much prefer this kind of behaviour to having to feign pleasure, respect and interest when I'd rather send the person I'm talking to on a one way trip to Saturn's moon Titan...

The reason I consider some of WA's decisions as weird and boneheaded is because they don't make any sense even commercially! The problem here is that a lot of a company's middle management has been promoted past their level of competence (you promote people until they are no longer able to fulfil their duties successfully, at which point they won't get promoted any more, so they remain forever in a position they can't really fill, thus making the whole middle management incompetent) and of course there are partisan factions infighting among themselves in this company, so a lot of the decisions we see as company policy as outsiders are actually just as detrimental to the company as we suppose, because they were taken to garner some minute advantage of a group of people in an interdepartmental fight... the point here is that the whole "malice versus incompetence" fight is pointless as long as any corporation is made of people, each with it's individual agenda and PERSONAL malice will trump CORPORATE malice, leading to situations in which decisions detrimental to the company will be taken and enforced, leading us to suspect the whole management of incompetence, which, in a way, is true...
This is pretty much the reason why every "secret worldwide conspiracy" is impossible, because even the original "Bavarian Illuminati", a rather localised secret society, fell apart through infighting before achieving anything of note...
The same of course is true with politicians, and the current Romanian government is a stellar example of how even malice (no-one can say those people of not serving their own interests!) is trumped for the most part by incompetence - to take an actual example, both Mazare and Oprescu (mayors of Bucharest and Constanta, respectively, for those unfamiliar with Romanian politics) actually think that building massive highways through the centres of their respective cities is a good thing, a way to create a living legacy as a builder and giving back something useful to the city at the same time. Of course they're going to steal as much as they can from the projects, but the primary motivation is one of ego rather than the pure cold economics calculus one might suspect... Of course, as the case goes this is actually one of the worst decisions one could take, since traffic only breeds more traffic and bringing more cars to the city centre will only lead to more congestion on the smaller streets, pollution and increased noise level which will ultimately lead to an exodus of population form the city centre to the outskirts, leading to even more commuter traffic and a ghost town city centre, etc. This is pretty much what the Americans discovered after they built their high speed interstate system back in the 60's to the point that they torn down most of the urban highways in the 80's and 90's and focused instead on a much more human rather than car friendly urbanistic policy. (and you can trust me on this one, I'm an architect, so I know exactly what I'm talking about!)
So the bottom line is - cynic you might be, but don't make the mistake to consider a company as a single living organism, because it's actually a group of people, each working at cross-purposes, and as such much more susceptible to incompetence than you think, sometimes even against it's own ultimately egotistical purposes...

As far as the Char b1 is concerned, my quip about the design bureau "smoking" was only an attempt at jocularity, since I knew exactly how this monstrosity came to be. In fact, this was exactly the same policy which lead to the fatally flawed Schneider Ca1 and St. Chamond tanks back during the First World war, and let's not forget that this was during a time when the French nation was fighting tooth and nail for it's very survival, but even this couldn't dissuade the "champions of industry" to fill their pockets at the nation's expense and creating sub-par products... Here is the whole story, albeit in a fictionalized setting for my alternate-reality comic Shadowless: [link]

Well, I'm not holding my breath either for seeing a fixed MM in the near future, because even after passing the first hurdle of getting management to greenlight the project, there's no indication that the same management won't "pull the plug" on it at a later date for some trivial reason, even though stopping a project at 90% completion will actually cost the company more money than allowing the devs to finish their work... Like I said, when you see no logic in a company's decision, and by this I mean primarily economic logic, than most likely managerial incompetence struck again...

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

BattleHamsterReturns In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-23 12:43:45 +0000 UTC]

Suceava / FusigonusExtremis

While it is true that there was corruption of all sorts in all historical epochs and in all societies consider the fact that the present technological means exacerbate the problem . Besides i did not actually claim that our forefathers were necessarily more righteous then us , what i did claim however is that now the old means of control and manipulation are refined to terrible degrees . For instance in the past a king might be dumb enough to be a tyrant openly and many such kings lost their heads for it . Now β€œ the nobility β€œ is secret and they always , always act through cats - paws and intermediaries . While i am tempted to quote semi - secret societies and countless hidden agendas i will not do so . Suffice to say that now the rulers are hidden , they act through puppets , their β€œ craft β€œ is far more refined then any kind in ages past .

I hope you are right and that things will get better . For now that is not the case . Things are going from bad to worse in supposedly free countries and i cant hope to rightfully wonder when our turn will come . Spy drones , indefinite detention , TSA pat downs , army units deployed for police duties , militarized police , cameras everywhere , possible FEMA camps etc etc . True true i cannot complain that i was on the receiving end of police brutality but if things keep spiraling out of control is only a matter of time . Hell for Romania freedom is the exception not the rule , either Ottoman / Habsburg in the past or half a century of communism / socialism more recently we have had out share of tyranny . If it happened in the past it might ( and looks that it will ) happen again . I hope the situation will improve but a few more decade long wars , economic followed by social collapse and you will see Alaska as a prison state .

I wish i had your experience of the US . All i have is news outlets . You could rightfully claim that i have no basis on which to judge but still you cannot deny that things are not going well . I am glad that you agree with my little Roman Empire comparison , over-used i know , but true none the less .

True , faith is in its essence a private thing but it impossible to keep it that way . See for an example again the US , Obama ( under Obamacare )mandated that the Catholic Church pay for various other anti - pregnancy things , things Catholics should in theory be opposed to . β€œ Caesar β€œ asks the β€œ Church β€œ to bow to him and his agenda . I said it before and i do so again : Caesar does not care what you worship as long as he gets the final word . The Catholics obviously took the whole thing to court and trials . When the State / Caesar mandates that we should do things that are contrary to our beliefs it is impossible to keep faith private . Again we end up at the Romans : β€œ Do as Caesar commands or meet the lions ! β€œ . True now a days they keep things a bit more discrete and just frame you for something or if you really pissed them off enough they might stage another Wako . Believers wanting to be left anole ? hell no , send the ATF , burn them . Roman torches in modern form . No , Faith cannot and will not be kept private , for better or worse . If only it was as simple as a Civilization game . Chose social policy and you are set : )
There will be an expansion for Civ 5 called Gods and Kings soon , get Civ 5 great game .

It is impossible for me to agree or disagree with you on the nature of the priests that you said to have met because i have no personal knowledge of them . The guys that i know are quite different from the ones you describe .

I have a similar reputation reputation myself for rudeness . Nothing will make you into a pariah ( figuratively speaking ) faster then calling self important fools , fools . So most people lie and keep appearances , we would not want to burn any bridges would we ? And so they lie . As an aside , check MBTI , interesting psychological stuff . Some compare it to astrology but i like it .

Yes i am familiar with the Peter Principle / Syndrome . You might be on to something there . β€œ Personal Malice will trump Corporate Malice β€œ - - - ha ha ha ha , good one . I like it . People abuse LOL , but here it is truly justified . Even if the worse happens and WoT goes bust we still have EvE Online and in the future MechWarrior Online . I for one was always more interested in MMO 's about machines ( Spachips , tanks , mechs ) then people / elf variety MMO 's . Assuming that you are an architect ( β€œ You can trust me , i am from the Internet ! β€œ ) you might be able to relate to the machines vs people preference .
Maybe i am guilty of the same thing i accused you earlier and see only the particular in stead of the big picture but currently i am more worries about the gas prices at the pomp then some failed highways in the future .

Again assuming that you told the truth and are an architect , please don’t make shit stuff . Even if you don’t believe in an afterlife there is no reason for your designs to needlessly ruin someone’s life in the future .

As for MM we will wait and see , if it gets worse and i routinely end up with a tier 3 in a tier 9 fight i am moving to something else .

PS : you mentioned La Vey looking like Ming the Merciless , he actually copied his look from Lenin believe it or not .

πŸ‘: 0 ⏩: 1

wingsofwrath In reply to BattleHamsterReturns [2012-05-23 18:22:38 +0000 UTC]

You are only halfway right - while it is of course true that the techniques themselves have been refined overtime, I was in fact referring to the level of control exercised by those in authority. Sure, as you rightfully say, there have been tyrants who plied their craft openly and a few of those have been short lived, but for each of those there have been dozens who did all the controlling covertly, and, as such, were not only long lived, but history has ignored them almost completely (after all, the bloody bits are always more interesting). Hell, if you want one of the most successful and long lived examples, look no further than the Catholic Church itself (and I don't mean the Catholic Faith mind you, but the organization which runs it): back in the middle ages they did everything from selling "indulgences" for outrageous profits to peddling "holy relics" (some of them genuine, but a lot were obvious fakes) to all interested besides all the behind closed doors scheming and political lobbying... Sure, in recent times they cleaned up their act a lot, but I'm pretty sure the covert bit is still in place...

You're again right to state that in fact Romania has only enjoyed brief flashes of liberty, the most recent of which ended back in 1947, because let's face it, the '89 Revolution was turned pretty much right away into a coup, with the second echelon communists (Iliescu [the auto correct subtitled this name and wants to replace it with the word "smiles", which I think is funny as hell] and his ilk) grabbing powert and never actually relinquishing it but to another bunch which proved to be much, much worse...
As for all the examples you give, I can provide the historical equivalent:
Spy drones = your neighbour, who is ratting everything you say to the Securitate (Siguranta, if you want to go back before 1947)
indefinite detention = ah, one of the good old favourites, practised by governments everywhere, no matter how outwardly democratic.
TSA pat downs = even back in the middle ages the guards used to pat you down and rifle through your belongings before they let you into the town, so nothing new here either
army units deployed for police duties, militarized police = the Romanian Gendarmerie, one of the oldest institutions in the country (created back in 1850 in Moldova), is exactly that, militarized police.
cameras everywhere = old lady living across the hall from you (next house over if you want to go back to the rural experience) ratting everything you do to anyone who would listen, not only the Securitate
possible FEMA camps = considering the fact the US has a long history of rounding up their own citizens of the ethnicity they're currently fighting and tossing them into camps I don't see how this comes as a surprise - examples: Spaniards during the 1899 Spanish-American War, Germans during WW2, Japanese during WW2...
And let's not forget, we did pretty much the same thing during WW1 and WW2, during the latter even going as far to institute Army run concentration camps in the Transnistria.
In recent times the situation has certainly improved, but not by much and I doubt it will improve any further in a hurry - in fact I'm not even sure all the problems you mention will eventually go away, even 2000 years from now.

When I said Religion should be private, I didn't mean "quiet". I don't want people who are religious to have to keep that to themselves for fear of "modern torches" what I meant to say is that faith is something you have to find for yourself, by looking deep inside your soul and not something you do because some guy (or worse, some organization) tells you this is what you should do.

Personally, I'm not offended if someone comes to me and tells me "oh, I'm part of religion X, would you be interested in learning more about us?", because I can just reply "no", but by those people who believe they have the holy mission to "save" my soul by preaching just how great their religion is and won't take no for an answer, because who in their right mind would willingly turn them down when is so obvious they have the only truth in existence and the rest are just poor lost souls looking for absolution...

As for the organised church I was mentioning earlier, the problem is that the organization itself was made by humans and as such it has become corrupt over time. Sure, as you rightly mention, I've met my share of priests which are honest, genuinely good people and whom I truly respect, but let's face it, they're all pretty much on the lower ranks of the organization, either parish priests or living in monasteries, while it's the leaders of the Church who are abusing their powers to reach goals which are far removed from what the faith actually entails.
And it's not only the Christian Churches which have corrupt organizations which manipulate their followers for their own goals, think about how some elders of the Islamic Churches tell their believers they should go and blow themselves up because it's Allah's will to wipe all the "unbelievers" from the map even though the Qur'an doesn't mention such extreme practices even in the verses which speak of "jihad", and suicide is seen as one of the gravest sins anyone can commit... ("And do not kill yourselves, surely God is most Merciful to you." β€” Qur'an, Sura 4 An-Nisa)

Also, the whole "Obamacare versus the Catholic Church" bit was in fact related to something else entirely - the Catholic Church is, of course, completely opposed to the idea of contraceptives, to the extent that they refused to allow them to women who needed them for unrelated medical conditions such as ovarian cysts (which untreated can lead to a lot of nasty stuff including infertility and even ovarian cancer in some cases) which of course is, in my opinion, a completely unreasonable position to take.
The problem here is that really, religious liberty is fine until it goes against one of the laws of the state, because while most of religions out there do fit the civil laws just fine you really can't have people say "oh, but my religion demands that I sacrifice one virgin every Friday to Shub-Niggurath"...

I know of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and while I find it funny (I'm ENTP)I also think that most of current Psychology in it's entirety, not just this relies far too much on blindly guessing, but really you can't ask too much from something that's clearly a still evolving science. Maybe one day they'll be able to understand how we think and accurately predict how we'll react to certain stimuli, but that's still a long way off.

Yeah, I understand your reluctance to believe anything some random guy on the internet claims about themselves, but in this case I really am an architect, recent graduate of the Ion Mincu University of Architecture and Urbanism, Bucharest, Romania. It's probably one of the most corrupt institutions of learning in the whole northern hemisphere and the quality of it's courses resembles a game of Russian Roulette, but surprisingly, I din learn quite a lot in there.
And unfortunately, I'm not making anything up, it's in fact even worse: the current real estate market in Romania is on the slippery slope due to overbuilding (think of all those new office and apartment buildings sitting empty because people can't afford to rent/buy them, yet they're building even more) and it won't be long until the bubble will burst leaving us in an even bigger mess than 2008. The same thing is happening right now in China [link] and that's not going to end well either.
Yeah, you'd think that, as an architect, it would really be against my own interests to say "stop building", when I win my bread by designing new buildings, but I think that in the long run, a stable real estate market and a healthy city are a lot more important than the money I might me making now, something our "glorious leaders" haven't caught on yet - or maybe they all think they'll be out of the political game anyway when it all comes crashing down, so it will be somebody else's problem not theirs.

Finally, coming back to WOT and WA, I don't think WOT will fail, by now one could say the game has a life of it's own, like World of Warcraft. If you want a closer example, think Navyfield [link] , the original South Korean game whose game dynamics WA copied to make WOT -it really is quite similar, albeit it's 2d- destroyers rushing and getting blown to bits, carriers being overpowered and striking from across the map, vessels from a lot of nations on the same team, modules, crew, money won by fighting battles, as well as "gold" bought with real money, etc. - back in 2004 when I was playing Navyfield I was thinking just how well this would work with tanks, and guess I wasn't the only one (even the designers of Navyfield thought the same and released a game called "Blitz 1941" [link] , but sadly it was 3rd person, so I never got into it). Anyway, despite being started in 2002 (Japan and Korea) and coming to Europe and the US in 2004, the game sis till going strong, with lots of players and periodic game updates. Also, if I remember correctly, the matchmaker there was just as ineffective as that of WOT...

The odd thing about La Vey, is that despite looking like a b-movie villain (Lenin, really? Naah, I say I've got it right, and other people think so as well: [link] ) and founding a church that has "Satan" in it's name, some of the tenets he preached were actually quite benign if a little egotistical. I mean for a church with the name like that you'd expect "eat a baby every Friday and then crucify a nun", but no, you get things like "Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked", "Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal", "Do not harm little children", "Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food" which I'd say are remarkably good advice...

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BattleHamsterReturns In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-23 20:19:58 +0000 UTC]

You generalize a bit on the Catholics . Consider your own words on WOT company , it is the same with the Catholic Church , some individuals have been alright some have been devils ( Borgia being the most classical example ) . I have my own beef with the Catholics but for slightly different reasons .

The β€œ Iliescu β€œ joke , it does bring back memories : ) . I particularly like old vids of him speaking English , hilarious .

While it might not be anything new with some agency going through your stuff and grabbing things they should not grab consider this : Body scanners ! They have been confirm to emit an ungodly amount of radiation . They have started being deployed at airports and now they are using it on sports events and they even have mobile ones . Surely you understand why i am worried . There is ample info on the subject , its bad news all around .

Yes , yes i do know of the β€œ noble and honorable β€œ Romanian tradition of ratting out on those across the hall or in the next house . I sadly know of the things you speak . The reason i gave the tech example was to accentuate the danger , i know full well that most spy work is mainly people stuff .
Romanian militarized police aside surely you realize that their American counterparts being deployed all over the states with tech of just about anything short of an Abrams is really really not a good idea for citizens freedom .

True it does not appear likely that the problems will go away any time soon . Again what worries me is quite simple : if it happens there how long before it happens here and to what degree ? When Russia went down hill with the Communist revolution it soon affected Romania , now that the next super power seems to just slide into tyranny i rightfully go . . . Oh Shit not again !!!

You believe that oneβ€˜s convictions , religious or otherwise should be dictated by what the human in question finds in his soul / intellect ( for those whom don’t accept the souls existence ) rather then in the teaching of some organization . This appears noble but works out horrible in practice because men are what they are . And what they are is not very noble .

True the lower ranks and or the monks are a different breed entirely from the higher echelons . However consider this , the scum are not really believers and are on many cases appointed politically . You mentioned the Muslims in passing and you have fallen into the classical western liberal trap of : β€œ Surely they are not that bad β€œ thinking . All i need do here is remind you that we unlike the US have deals with their kind for longer then the US exited . It was not a happy collaboration . They started with the sword in hand from the beginning and would use it still if they could . In fact they do so still and they post a lovely video ones in a while . If you wish to ignore 1400 years ( aprox ) of atrocities by these guys , ok fine , but don’s be surprised when some smelly fuck β€œ gently β€œ robs a knife against your neck , for being a Kafir dog unbeliever in his view . Our own Vlad the Impaler certainly knew how to deal with them : ) . Well lets just hope that none of them read this else i might get yet another banned account on DA . Last time it was the jews . : )

Shub-Niggurath ? Fan of Lovecraft are you ? I am certainly one myself .

The state has no business in the church . The state should pave roads , police and defend borders and all that , not shove godless filth laws made by and for sodomites down by neck . And that is exactly what is happening in practice . If the State would do what it is supposed to do we would have no problems but when the State becomes Caesar we have a problem .

I am not terribly surprised of the ENTP result , they are interesting and if you are one you certainly do not disappoint . Can you guess my type ? I mentioned the church , surely i must be an F type : ))

β€œ One of the most corrupt institutions of learning in the whole northern hemisphere β€œ - - - ha ha ha ha ha , i believe you there . I had similar experiences . You are spot on , on the building thing , they do seem to keep building them but they are either surprisingly empty , huge state buildings or they keep changing hands all the time . Our glorious leaders will be as glorious as they ever were ! I give praise to Christ that at least we do not have a Elena Ceausescu semi illiterate cunt whom claims to have advanced knowledge of nuclear engineering !!!!!

You mentioned Koreans playing some thing other then Starcraft ? Not possible . But seriously , Wargaming is going the exact route in reverse . They started with tanks and will continue with planes and warships , World of Warplanes and World of Warships / battleships . I have no ideas where i am going to get the time for them . Sadly probably i wont get to play them . Like i said before i am looking to play Mechwarrior online in a few months .

La Vey , regardless where he got his look from was a pretty lolzy character . He copied much of his esoterica from Alistair Crowley ( a far bigger and more lolzy nutcase ) and philosophy from Ayn Rand . Just take Atlas Shrugged , cross out John Galt and write Satan : ) . Want to read something lolzy ? Read this : β€œ [link] β€œ very funny but the site is β€œ Not Safe For Work β€œ .

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wingsofwrath In reply to BattleHamsterReturns [2012-05-24 16:17:08 +0000 UTC]

The same comment I made on the Orthodox Church applies here as well - I know for certain many of the priests are decent, even virtuous human beings, but for the most part, the organization as a whole has had a rather nasty track record throughout history, having murdered millions in the name of their faith (The Spanish Inquisition, the wars and massacres against protestants, forced conversions and massacres in the Americas, Africa, Southern Asia, Oceania, etc.).

"Za dacs come from za tracs". Priceless.

Yeah, I wouldn't bee too worried about those though, since you also get an "ungodly amount" of radiation from things a lot closer to home, like power lines, television transmission towers, gsm antennas, etc. Every facet of our life is saturated with human made electromagnetic radiation, on top of what filters through our atmosphere from the sun. if those were indeed as harmful as the internet panic machine would have you think, we'd all be dead by now. Of course, I bet long exposures to those body scanners would take their toll on your health, but unless you're tasked with running one of those machines for 8 hours a day, I don't see how the few seconds exposure you would get it would affect you that much. Just going to the medic for an x-ray or MRI scan is guaranteed to pump a lot stronger radiation (hard X-ray and strong static fields for medical imaging versus microwave or backscatter X-ray as used in body scanners) through you, and higher doses and for longer times, and you still use them to get your health better.

I don't think the US going down (and that's not going to happen in a hurry anyway) is going to affect us that much here in Europe, I'd be a lot more worried about the Chinese property bubble bursting, since we don't get that much foreign investment from the US, (only 4.0% compared to the rest which are all European Union, with the Netherlands having the biggest stake, with 24.3% of the total foreign investment, which in it's totality only amounts to about 30% of our GDP anyway) whereas a lot of stuff we use on a daily basis is made in China, and if they hike up the prices in response to an on-going internal commercial crisis...

You're an odd mix, religious and cynical at the same time. True, this doesn't work too good in real life, but compared to the other system which has some all powerful organization telling me how I should run my life without giving me any guarantees they're not actually after some nefarious goals of their own which have nothing to do with what they actually advertise (think Scientology) I think I'll take my chances with the first one...

ARRGH! No, wrong, absolutely wrong!

It is you who has fallen into a trap, and that is the old nationalistic propaganda one which paints us brave Romanians as protecting Europe from the barbaric Turks, which really can't be further from the truth. For starters, back around the fall of Constantinople it was the Turks which held the most advanced civilisation in the World (that's how they conquered Constantinople in the first place, they were the first to introduce artillery to Europe) and while it's true there were atrocities committed, those largely went both ways (Vlad the Impaler is a good example, since, despite the nationalistic myths, he was really a sick bastard which had no trouble gruesomely killing anyone who stood in his path, including the residents of Brasov, which, I might add, being Saxons, were all Christians...)/ Also, the brunt of those were simply the norm during warfare and happened pretty much automatically whenever a battle took place, regardless of who was involved and what religions they had.
Another misconception is that we gained nothing by being under the suzerainty of the Ottoman Porte and even less during the period of the Phanariote rulers, when in fact all of the major reforms introduced prior to 1859 were their doing and they built palaces, churches and organized the public life according to all the new discoveries of the era, while most atrocities against civilians were committed during the brief Austrian or even worse, Russian periods of occupation. Even so, the latter did bring us the Organic Statutes (Regulamentele Organice) which could be seen as the basis of modern Romanian law, so even that was in fact a mixed blessing.
If you really want to see atrocities committed by the Ottoman Empire, you are looking in the wrong place. I know we love to victimize ourselves (oh, poor Romanians, trampled underfoot by our big brutish neighbours) but if you look at Bulgaria or Greece, for example, both of which were occupied by the Turks, not merely paying them tribute and which suffered atrociously during their various bids for independence at the hands of the bashi-bazouks (which far from being regular turkish troops were in fact mercenaries used as auxiliaries during times of war, and most weren't even Turks, but Albanians, Serbs, Greeks, etc.) you see that whatever we suffered pales by comparison.
And even so, don't think for a second that all these atrocities wouldn't have happened if the Ottoman Empire was Christian rather than Muslim, since for the most part, they were politically motivated. In fact the Turks, being a multinational empire were a lot more religiously tolerant than all of the European states. Think about how the Hungarians tried long and hard to assimilate and convert all the Orthodox Romanians to Catholicism while nothing of the sort ever happened in either Wallachia or Moldova.

And another thing - when you think "Muslim", don't make the modern American mistake of automatically thinking "radical Islam" because that only makes you look like a fool in the eyes of those who know better. Having grown up in Constanta I have a lot of former schoolmates and friends who are either Turks or Tatars and which, despite being Muslim, behave exactly like you and I and are as completely appalled at the excesses of Radical Islam as we are. In fact in the early 2000s, a "mission" of radical Saudi Imams trying to establish a school in Romania was met with hostility by the Muslim minority, and were forced to retreat.
Also, despite what you have been told at school (which, let's face it, it's still full of the old same lies), after the creation of the Crimean Khanate in 1475 they only mounted small scale slave capturing expeditions into Wallachia or Moldova rather than the earlier devastating large scale raids of the Golden Horde. In fact the Golden Horde was finally defeated in 1502 at the hands of the Crimean Tatar Khan MeΓ±li I Giray and effectively ceased to exist as a threat. All the Tatars currently living in Dobrogea settled here after the conquest and annexation of their state by the Russian Empire, in 1778, while the Turks themselves have settled Dobrogea since the late 1200s, since, after all, excepting a brief 1288-1420 Wallachian rule for most of it's history this territory belonged to pretty much everybody BUT Romanians (while there are early signs of habitations dating to the Stone Age, after the first Greek colonists arrived and settled Histria back in 657BC the place was conquered, in order - 512BC, Darius I of Persia; 430 BC, the Odrysian Kingdom; 4th century BC, Scythians; 339 BC, Macedonians, under Philip II (you probably know his son); 3rd century BC, some Celts decided to stop by, then the Bastarnae; then some back-and forth between some Thracian kings (not Dacian though) until, in 72–71 BC, Romans; In 62–61 BC a Greek revolt aided by the Dacians and the Bastarnae toppled the Roman rule and ushered a brief occupation by Burebista (55-44BC) but after that the Romans were firmly in the driving seat and even a failed campaign by Burebista in 101-102 AD couldn't topple their rule (it did lead though to the kick-ass Tropaeum Traiani). Peace lasted until 170, when some new players showed up: the Costoboci, then Goths, Carpians, Taifali and Hasdingi, then Ostrogoths in around 384-6, all interpersed with Roman rule.
Then, in 513, Byzantines, after the fall of the Western Empire, some 40 years earlier. Then suddenly, Bulgars, led by Asparuch. Then some more Byzantines, then the Kievan Rus in 968, then Kahzars and Pechenegs, Cumans until 1094, in 1187 the Bulgarians again, followed, in 1241, by the Tatars. In 1263 some Seljuk Turks settled in the are with the permission of the Byzantine Emperor, but by 1307 they had been christened and called themselves Gagauz. By the 13th century the place was again under Bulgarian rule, but plagued by attacks by the afore-mentioned Mongol Golden Horde which gradually grew worse (aided by some shenanigans with a an uprising by some guy named Ivailo until Ivan Asen III put as stop to his doings) then, in 1325, Dobrogea became independent under a certain Dobrotici (that's what's he's called in Romanian, but he was most likely a Christianized Turk) and after his death the place was briefly brought under Turkish rule until, in 1388, Mircea the Elder, ruler of Wallachia conquered it and held onto it for 32 years, before his son, Mihail I, died in battle and lost it again to Sultan Mehmed I. Barring some brief Russian invasions, in 1771–1774, 1790–1791, 1809–1810, 1829 and 1853 (the 1829 one was particularly dreadful, with whole villages put to the torch and the whole territory depopulated to an atrocious degree) Dobrogea was firmly under Turkish rule until, finally, in 1878, Romania got it as a compensation to the loss of Basarabia to the Russians following the Treaty of San Stefano (that's being allied with the Russians to you, you still end up losing territory to the greedy bastards)... And you probably know the rest. In 1913, during the Second Balkan War, we got Southern Dobrogea (the Quadrilater) from Bulgaria in a rather dirty move which only served to enrage the Bulgarians (which, mind you, had been fighting absolutely everyone since 1911 while we hadn't fired a shot since 1878 - the 1913 affair having been been handled without fighting) leading to the really embarrassing defeat at Turtucaia, courtesy of our rather inept high command who completely underestimated the threat posed by some seriously ticked off Bulgarians...

Oh I find the Lovecraft stories interesting, if a little dated, but I specifically enjoy the Mythos surrounding them.

The reverse is also true - while the State has no business imposing their will on the Church (within rational bounds - some rules, like no murdering, stealing etc. for religious reasons should be enforced, else you end up with all kinds of loonies claiming religion as a cover for their crimes) the same should be true of the Church imposing it's will on the State.
People should be free to choose their faith freely, without being forced in compulsory religion classes at school (especially since those religion classes only teach a single religion to the detriment of all others, making them blatant propaganda rather than balanced religion classes), Churches should pay taxes like normal people and rely on willing contributions from their followers for money rather than seek budget allowances from the state (like it's common right now in Romania). This is all I ask.

"I give praise to Christ that at least we do not have a Elena Ceausescu semi illiterate cunt whom claims to have advanced knowledge of nuclear engineering" You're wrong again: [link] and [link]

Mechwarriors should be interesting, but I'm not holding my breath, now that the Star Wars MMORPG proved such a disappointment after the initial hype wore off.

Yeah, however, I suspect most of the "satanists" and "occultists" out there are only putting in a show for the lulz (I'm sure La Vey went for the Ming the Merciless look on purpose, he's much too similar in appearance), pretty much like Marilyn Manson is faking a lot of his "craziness" for the sake of an entertaining stage persona and is, in fact quite sane, cynical and articulate in his interviews.

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BattleHamsterReturns In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-24 19:43:05 +0000 UTC]

Yes the catholics of the past are accused of many things , some of them true . But what of it ? Though times require though measures . Besides atheistic organizations of the communist variety have killed far more , they have surpassed millenia of supposed crimes of the church in the 20 th century alone . The β€œ natives β€œ that were supposedly killed by Church forces on many parts of the world were on many occasions blood crazed scum like the Aztecs . Thank Christ they are dead . Most of the time they died as a result of diseases they had no immunity to rather then the sword . No ones fault there . I am happy they are gone . If i could establish a global theocracy right now i would do so i a second , if i had to burn a few heretics i would . I doubt we have anything more to discuss on this subject since we are polar opposites .

If you truly believe that there is no danger in repeated exposure to the radiation of those scanning machines fine by me , fee free to go expose yourself to them all day long . They have been confirmed to cause cancer after long exposure and i for one would not go through one unless you drag me kicking and screaming . And we have not even began to tackle the most horrid issue of these body scanners : the degradation that they subject you to . There have been many confirmed cases of pedophile and all sort of scum having great fun with these machines ,completely and utterly inexcusable under all moral grounds . β€œ The internet panic machine β€œ is in fact a group of people with considerable knowledge of the subject . If you wish to ignore their testimony fine , it is your body on the line and you should no complain when you get a tumor .

We will see how the US will be doing , as long as US does not start a conflict with Iran that might degenerate into another world war . If it does then all bets are off and anything might happen .

Cynical and Religious ? well that is simple enough to explain : i do believe in the victory of good over evil and the accompanying theology but i also realize that this war has been going on for millenia and might continue for millenia more . I see in history an endless catalog of horrors with a few glimpses of light here and there . I know full well that the future will bring even more and diverse horrors .

I cannot believe the sort of stuff that you have written about the turks . It is a truly sad thing to see someone supposedly Romanian defending our sworn blood enemy for centuries , modern turks not included . You yourself recognize that they were bastards to the Greeks yet you defend them and blame their cats - paws . The turks conquered Constantinople through sheer weight of numbers and more importantly through the hostility of the West towards Byzantium ( particularly jew infested Venice ) . The fact that you would believe the false histories of some Hungarians about Vlad speaks volumes . What is next will you also insult a few other heroes ?

Any supposed building projects and code of laws developed or build under non Romanian rule are of no consequence for a simple reason : were there a true national Romanian leadership they would have done better . You praise the Phanariotes yet you conveniently fail to realize that we had men , true Romanian leaders like Stephen the Great whom out build them by an order of magnitude .

The myth of Islamic tolerance is a staple of modern β€œ politically correct β€œ nonsense and is just that : a myth . Brother you have been deceived ! Cruelly so ! You have been trained to engage in double think and you do it without even realizing . When you have so much evidence of Islamic regimes today doing the same old tired stuff of centuries past , when one can easily see how most serious crimes , if not most crimes committed in western Europe are done by these sort of people you chose to commit Orwellian Double Think and defend past murderous regimes while ignoring the mess right under your eyes .

If they are few they pretend to fit in . If they are many they kill you . They are allowed to and have the obligation to lie and pretend to further the cause of Islam . Brother you have been deceived !

Copy Pasting a few pages from a dubious history books works about as well as one might imagine it does .

As long as most Romanians declare themselves to be Christian , as long as this is a Christian Country ( even with all the faults it might have ) it is normality itself to have Christian teachings in schools and everywhere else for that matter . Cut the crap with the taxes nonsense : did not the communist stole enough of church propriety ? You have a problem with Christians teaching Christians and financing this with their own money ? Ok then make your own church / temple , have but-sex with a monkey and sing praises to Darwin or that other degenerate Malthus as regular service and most of all fund your own thing and don’t expect anyone , particularly Christians to fund your enterprise . The State might found the Church because the constituency is made up by believes . Its our own money and we use it how we want it . Here are two options for you if you are really upset by the current situation and feel oppressed : go back to the US make yourself a Darwin based church and jerk off monkeys ( for Science of course ) or maybe go to Saudi Arabia and the β€œ tolerant β€œ atmosphere there . After all if you have convictions you have to live by them .Dumb liberals whom defend terrorists get their heads cut off by the same terrorists . There , proof there is occasionally divine justice .

So lets see : you are against the Church , you are against and throw shit at Romanian heroes , you believe that Romania or parts of it do not belong to Romanians ( Are you sure you are not a Bozgor ? ) . You have been so cruelly deceived by the politically correct hypocritical filth of liberal / socialist / internationalist propaganda . I am assuming you are white , do you also hate your race as well as your ancestral heroes and fate ? Or does it go even deeper and you support abominable filth sodomites and killing unborn children ?

It is not too late , you can still change . Else you might end up with mongrel children while being chipped and tagged like a dog under some fascist regime , lost and on your way to hell .

Brother Repent !

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wingsofwrath In reply to BattleHamsterReturns [2012-05-24 23:04:26 +0000 UTC]

Repent?

Bwahahahaha! Oh man, that's probably the best one I've heard all year.

Now I'm imagining you as the guy who drives this: [link]

My friend, I'm not even sure I care enough to dignify this stinking pile of propaganda, untruths and plain brainfarts with anything but a hearty laugh.

Really, do you fancy yourself as a sort of Televangelist that can convert people to their point of view with their magnetic persona? Do you even realise that most of the bigoted and overzealously nationalistic bullshit you're spouting not only ignores the historical truth, but lacks even such normal things as internal coherence or hell, even a smidgeon of sense?

And do you think you're doing in the first place, trying to make me "see da truff" through an (alleged) art site? Isn't this all shades of pathetic? What's next, preaching at McDonald's?

Really, were you born this way or did a horrendous accident happen to cause you to lose your marbles to such an extent?

Coming back to me though.

Of course the Muslims are all "evil", of course I must be a Hungarian, because no true Romanian would dare say anything bad about his own nation, oh noes, I'm also an Atheist as well and *gasp* I dare proclaim it publicly?

Surely now the world shall come to an end! Everybody, brace yourselves and kiss your ass goodbye!

Here's a guy who thinks Stephen the Great, sanctified by out beloved Church, was nothing but a drunkard and a thug with such a voracious sexual appetite he probably tripled the population of Moldova all by himself! Sure, also shrewd statesman and military strategist, but hardly saint material, no matter how many churches he might have built...

I sure hope that after all that, your poor heart is still in one piece, because I've heard of bigots spontaneously bursting into flames before due to their rightful indignation. *nod* well known phenomenon...

If you'd bother reading anything I've written rather than ranting your poor little mind out, you'd have the answers to your own questions... Oh wait, you're not asking any, your last reply it's just a solid wall of eye wateringly dense imbecilic statements that not only are as trite, boring, predictable and dull as a drawer full of chopsticks, but even the invectives are completely inept.

I mean, you really expect me to do anything but laugh at your supposed insults? Can't you even troll properly? Do I need to take you by the hand end tell you exactly how you should proceed to do it, lest you end up tripping on your own shoelaces and crying for your mommy?
Man, I wonder how you managed to get banned form DA the first time, since you certainly can't troll worth a damn.

Now, don't let the door hit you on the way out, and please, don't forget to tip the guy standing behind the door and playing a sad trombone for your departed sanity and common sense while I check my imaginary empty wallet for the fucks I was planning on giving.

Goodbye, toodle pip, cheerio, etc.

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BattleHamsterReturns In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-25 07:52:45 +0000 UTC]

Alright , i see that you are beyond help . You have made your choice , you have chosen your own path and you will be damned for it . That being said :

You are nothing more then a piece of filth brainwashed liberal retard , a traitor to your own people . No amount of snotty elitist trash talk will change that . So do go back to kissing Darwin’s ass and murdering your own unborn children while sucking some Muslim cock that you have professed to adore so much .

Moron , you think i was trolling you ? You trolled yourself you cunt with your own satanic filth .
Trolling ? I have not yet began to troll . You seem to think you power level is above 9000 . The only above 9000 number you get is number of Muslim cock that you would like to suck .

You would not know truth if it hits you in you retard Bozgor face , you have a shiny surface and deep rot beneath .

Sure you claim tolerance and all that , but when push comes to shove you show yourself to be more hateful then those you claim to despise . Keep dropping random words from some thesaurus , surely that will convince anyone just how super duper you are . Maybe you should become a grammar nazy also ? For instance , see if you can spot at least a few mistakes in the next sentence and let me know : β€œ Sugi pula si tu si tot neamul tau the jidani bozgori ! β€œ

Keep it up with the double think , move to San Francisco and be a fag , keep gorging yourself on filth , keep regurgitating jew internationalist propaganda . Do make sure to line up and take your mark of the beast . Wear it proudly , like the good dog you are .

Coherence ? What would you know of it ? Oh wait no , i see that you are coherent , coherent in being a brainwashed liberal swine and quoting internationalist jew filth . I seem to recall in your indignant pompous ass snooty message you mentioning that you mother dropped you on your head and that you become several shades of pathetic , that is so sad : ( My heart just weeps for you , i will pray that you get well . Maybe you should stop eating at McDonald and ingesting all that filth ? Maybe then you would not regurgitate filth and your mother might not be tempted to β€œ accidentally β€œ drop you on your head .

I spit in your face , i spit in the face of all you belive . I finish spitting and do so again for surely you deserve it .

Romania will continue to be Christian forever and ever and ever . Church attendance is as high as it ever was and will continue to be so . We will keep educating children in the spirit of the Lord , we will keep mocking jew indoctrinated swine line you . And best of all there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it . We reject you and we reject your filth !

Have i known what sort of jew doppelganger i was dealing with i would not have buttered even looking at your drawings let alone talking with a venomous viper spewing poison like you .



I gladly await you next snotty and indignant message , by all means keep telling me how bad i am . Also keep copy pasting hungarian jew nonsense .

Bring it Bitch ! I just might be tempted to make a few more accounts for the sole purpose of telling you what a libtard you are . Come on bring it , we have only just begone ! : )

See you bitch ! If you get the time to take Satan’s Cock out of your mouth maybe you will get to answer ?

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Westy543 In reply to ??? [2012-05-20 23:15:49 +0000 UTC]

Absolutely amazing, this is really well drawn especially for the timeframe you had.

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wingsofwrath In reply to Westy543 [2012-05-21 10:20:26 +0000 UTC]

Thank you.
I feel the guys at Wargaming are really shooting themselves in the foot by allowing only a week for this contest, because that turned a lot of people that might otherwise have participated away... But then again, this is not the first boneheaded decision they've taken...

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NOACeulemans [2012-05-20 21:42:43 +0000 UTC]

This better win the competition. It's the best comic I've seen for WoT so far.

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wingsofwrath In reply to NOACeulemans [2012-05-21 10:57:41 +0000 UTC]

Thanks, I'm happy you think so, and, for obvious reasons, I'm also hoping this wins...

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InsaneSamantha [2012-05-20 21:29:26 +0000 UTC]

This is so AWESOME!!!

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wingsofwrath In reply to InsaneSamantha [2012-05-21 11:32:27 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

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InsaneSamantha In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-23 13:57:51 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure

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LostMaschine In reply to ??? [2012-05-20 20:42:51 +0000 UTC]

This was hilariously true. Great comic.

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wingsofwrath In reply to LostMaschine [2012-05-21 12:20:47 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

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BronyForever In reply to ??? [2012-05-20 20:26:08 +0000 UTC]

This is simply amazing, very well done.

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wingsofwrath In reply to BronyForever [2012-05-21 12:21:07 +0000 UTC]

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

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1Wyrmshadow1 In reply to ??? [2012-05-20 19:47:29 +0000 UTC]

Yup, pretty much every random battle is like this.

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wingsofwrath In reply to 1Wyrmshadow1 [2012-05-21 11:09:54 +0000 UTC]

Well, you do sometimes find yourself squaring against a well coordinated and competent opponent, while your team-mates are derping around like a bunch of brain-dead baboons with all the tactical sense of a pickled herring, while other times it's you who are part of a well functioning team and it's the enemy who is running around like headless chickens...

But you're right, that is indeed rather rare.

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Arianod In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-21 20:34:58 +0000 UTC]

Sounds like tons of fun

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wingsofwrath In reply to Arianod [2012-05-22 09:44:56 +0000 UTC]

Oh it is, and I actually enjoy coming with spur of the moment tactical solutions to my allies incompetence, because I feel I'm genuinely learning something useful, something that I can use in real life in either of my military themed activities (I'm army reserve, but other than that I enjoy both historical reenactment and airsoft).
of course, they don't always work, but oh, it's such a warm feeling when they do...

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Arianod In reply to wingsofwrath [2012-05-26 20:11:03 +0000 UTC]

It's a pity I had to give up on videogames completely because they took away far too much of my time and I was becoming totally addicted ^^ This sounds just like the kind of game I'd love.

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wingsofwrath In reply to Arianod [2012-05-28 16:56:55 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, about that... this game is totally, completely and utterly addictive.

It's also the only game I have time to play lately, and, luckily for me, the rounds are capped at 15minutes each (and are usually over much faster) so it's not that big of a timesink as some other games out there and you can play "just for an hour" each day.

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Arianod [2012-05-20 18:56:51 +0000 UTC]

So, you play this game with German and Allied tanks mixed together on the same side? That sounds a little crazy. Anyway, I had a good laugh

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wingsofwrath In reply to Arianod [2012-05-21 09:32:27 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you like it and that you had fun reading it despite the fact it was pretty much designed from the onset to be an overly a large inside joke that relied on people being familiar to the game.

Yeah, WOT is pretty random, not only in mixing vehicles from different nations in the same team, but also in mixing tanks from different eras. Nevertheless, it's surprisingly good fun and it's high point are the ballistics and damage models.

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1Wyrmshadow1 In reply to Arianod [2012-05-20 19:45:49 +0000 UTC]

Yes, everything is mixed, it's all random.

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dziban303 In reply to 1Wyrmshadow1 [2012-05-20 21:12:00 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for posting it on Reddit ([link] ) and thanks for attributing the artist

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1Wyrmshadow1 In reply to dziban303 [2012-05-20 21:16:07 +0000 UTC]

Maybe you should comment on it (if a redditor) so the rest can talk to you directly.

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wingsofwrath In reply to 1Wyrmshadow1 [2012-05-21 09:52:29 +0000 UTC]

Unfortunately I'm not on reddit, but thanks for posting it!

I'm really amazed at how well this was received and how much people have liked it.

Again, thanks a lot!

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