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AtheosEmanon — America is not number 1 by-nd

Published: 2012-06-07 16:01:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 23682; Favourites: 349; Downloads: 27
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Description Numbers are up to date as of June 7, 2012 when this was posted ..
[Disclaimer: These words herein are mine and shall only be attributed to me. I am a liberal, a progressive, and a democratic socialist ...yet I do not speak for anyone else other than myself so I ask that my words not be attributed to anyone but me.

With that, I do not expect everyone to agree with this piece [and expect it to ruffle some feathers, especially if they just read the stamp without reading the following piece and then just run with it having only read the stamp]

The numbers below are the most recent at the time of the original Post about the State of these United States of America and I am sure may change at a later time.




While when I say that we are not number 1 based on my views I generally get the usual, you hate America, you should move elsewhere… which makes me think one of my favorite H. L. Mencken quotes

"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who loves his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair."--- H.L. Mencken

This stamp came from my seeing two people arguing that their countries are number one and anyone who disagrees were stupid. So they were arguing in circles, and since I am an America, this country is great, but I am of the view no nation is number 1, but if you do believe that, then there are certainly things within our country that should be addressed if you believe that view.


I personally fail to see how saying your country is not number 1 shows a hatred for it, … and the notion that if you love a country, as I do that you should leave it rather than try to change it has been challenged here:
This is America, love it...or change it
atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.”
Charles Darwin

America is a great country, I will never deny that, it has been through a lot in its short 230+ year history, but the idea that we are the “greatest” country in the world… makes me take reservation with such… or rather makes me question the validity of the people saying this.

Would the greatest country in the world have 150,000 people dying each and every year because of a lack of medical coverage?

… up 300% from the early 90s study of 45K Americans dying each year. This is bothersome because as the nation’s population has grown only 34% in this time you would expect a 34-40% increase in deaths to go with the population increase, but instead you have seen a 300% increase in deaths due to a lack of medical coverage.
monthlyreview.org/2003/09/01/t…
www.urban.org/uploadedpdf/4115…
www.pnhp.org/excessdeaths/heal…

now, some states are better at it than others and for that I do commend them
www.americashealthrankings.org…

Yet as a nation, we have 50.7 million Americans as of the 2010 census that have no health insurance at all…
That is 1/6 of our nation that is without health care…
To the optimist they will say, but.. it is great that 5/6 of our country has health insurance!!!

… but to me, the pragmatic realist, that is little comfort to the 50 million people without health insurance… it is little comfort to the sick to say those people have insurance and you do not; just as it is little comfort to the starving to point to someone with food.

To harp or rather step on the last sentence of the previous sentence, this week America learned some horrifying news, that America is now second in Child poverty rates, following only Romania, in developed countries… is this a mere blemish on our greatness that in such a rich nation we are second of all developed countries in child poverty rates? I say to you it is more than a mere blemish it is a great disgrace of the ages, because in our modern politics, any ounce of help has been marked as collectivist communism!!!
voices.yahoo.com/unicef-us-has… www.unicef.org/socialpolicy/in… www.upi.com/Top_News/World-New… www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05… www.communitychange.org/page/s…

With 50 million Americans currently living below the poverty rates, can we truly claim greatness, as previously stated, to the optimist they will harp on 5/6 not being in poverty, but that is little comfort to those in poverty.

www.census.gov/newsroom/releas… thinkprogress.org/economy/2011… www.nationofchange.org/50-mill… www.marketplace.org/topics/wea…

come on, surely we can do better than this, when did apathy become a governing strategy? When did compromise become an impossible position in our nation’s politics? When did the distasteful thing of greed become something to be modeled after?

… now on to how we treat our veterans.
As someone who comes from a large military family I feel it would be a disservice if I did not discuss this.

We also learned from Army Times a military newspaper
www.armytimes.com/news/2010/04…

That 18 soldiers commit suicide each and every day, what we also found out from DOD papers is that it can take months from when a soldier requests mental help, to when they actually do it. Really? They make that bold step to admit they need help… and you tell them that they must wait for months and this, is the nation I am supposed to grant greatness to the title of best in the world?

Like poverty, and the uninsured, and more importantly like soldiers.. to have people who have fought for this country now dying in greater numbers by their own hands than on the battlefield is a disgrace.

We can surely do better than this but as with all things… they have become so partisan that things that used to be a quick five minute SURE yes vote … now takes hours, days and weeks and then gets filibustered and generally does not pass because of that dumb fuck 60 vote rule which was not the intention of the filibuster to be used on every single bill. FOR THE RECORD: I am not speaking of just Republicans, it seems whichever party is in the minority calls it because they know they do not have a majority so trying to raise the bar from 51… to 60 makes it that much more harder… and the people wait…and wait… and wait hoping that their representatives represent their interest when in reality, with few exceptions on both sides, they are beholden to special interest groups who can give the most money…

.. now to hop onto my next subject of issue..
Prisons, .. America now houses more of its citizens than any country on earth, America spends more on its prisons than it does on its schools.

In California we learned that they spend nearly 50K per year per inmate … vs just around 9000 on each student in the public school system. … nationally America spends around 40K per inmate, and around 10K per year, per student [which is gathered when you look at the census of kids of school ages, then add federal and state spending on education and divided by kids of school ages…]

This is a great tragedy that what we spend on four Public school students per year… is equal to what we spend on ONE inmate on average per year [sadly and before anyone says my state spends this, this is an average, it takes what all states spend and then averages it out, so yes, the average will be higher than some smaller states]

We can reform our drug laws to decriminalize certain drugs, though I am for legalization of marijuana and decriminalization of all other drugs. Because as discussed in several pieces in my gallery, decriminalization, rather than sending someone to prison where they will more than likely still have access to their drug of choice it sends them to a drug treatment center which many studies have shown it costs less and has a higher success rate than prison..

But on the prison front, we should implement as many states have GED programs, trade classes etc because also many states have shown us that when you have these programs the recidivism rate goes down greatly. Many studies have shown us that if you get your GED in prison you are a lot less likely to return, if you pick up a trade in prison through a job program you almost never return to prison … and yet these programs are being cut why?

Not because they do not work, but because they claim it is not in the budget which experts says that is a lie because if these programs cut down recidivism rates, then they are in actuality saving you money… but the real reason is prison owners, … if you have less people coming to prison that is less money in their pockets which is why you have them donating millions of dollars to both sides of the isle to keep certain things illegal or to make penalties a bit stiffer.

Now I will discuss gay rights,
Would the greatest country in the world allow the rights of minority to be placed under the oppression of a majority vote? We tried this before… it failed. What if we allowed the rights of blacks to be voted on state by state… I would guess that half of the states would have not allowed desegregation, would not have allowed interracial marriage .. and gay rights are civil rights .


Finally I will discuss education,
When America invested heavily in education, as far as per student and overall, you saw lower cases of poverty, you saw less people on governmental programs, you saw the American job market booming, you saw a strong middle class,… as we cut education more and more you see rises in poverty, you see more people dependent on government programs, you see the jobs being shipped at faster rates overseas because of the cheap labor and inability of our force to do the jobs..

I am sure I will get the but we spend more on education which for the unenlightened person will go yeah but yea… um, OF COURSE we spend more on education than we did 20 years ago, there are about 20 million new students going to school so of course you will see an increase in spending.

Charter schools: While many are proponents of charter schools I am not.
Why are charter schools so good? BECAUSE they are doing what experts have been telling public schools to do for decades:
Small Class sizes, a wider array of subjects..

But whenever we., people ask state/federal funds to renovate every school to try and allow for smaller class sizes .. it has to be put up to a congressional vote and with politics since the 80s being so stagnated and partisan nothing gets done.

I personally am of the view that no nation is number 1, because we will have to look at individual things to see which nation does this or that better. Yet if a nation wishes to call it else the number 1 nation in the world, yet lacks or falls behind many nations on the social and economic front of its people then I am unsure how a nation can earnestly state such. Every nation or all people within nations like to say MY COUNTRY IS THE GREATEST, okay but by what measure of greatness are they measuring by? I say again, America is a great country, no one, or rather I do not discount that and its ability or the possibility at which it can be better - but I am just not one of the view of AMERICA NUMBER ONE!!!! .. because there are great social and economic issues at which this country must address before I ascribe it to that, but others, as with all things will have their view.

Everyone will have their view on this, that is fine by me. It is no skin off my back if someone wants to go around running WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!!!! NUMBER ONE!!! Have at it, I am just asking how can we address things within our society, at which we have the ability to change but seemingly, either because our politicians do not want to, or the people have not been risen to care enough about this or that subject to try and change it. That is what I focus on to be honest, I have been around this beautiful world a number of times, so I just focus on what is ailing a society, and how best can we fix it and address that issue without the constant what I call "International dick swinging contests".

So, in closing, America has the ability to be the greatest country in the world if that is one's aim., I believe we do have the ability to address the issues within our society, and the means to do so but until we set aside the partisan bickering, the special interest, the secret political donations etc… then we will only go down a further and further road of what we have now…


==========---------=======
Random Quotes writing this made me think of:
"It is only by setting out on just principles that men are trained to be just to each other; and it will always be found, that when the rich protect the rights of the poor, the poor will protect the property of the rich."
-Thomas Paine

“'Tis the business of little minds to shrink; but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death.”
-Thomas Paine

“I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.”
-Thomas Paine

"If you want to make enemies, try to change something."
-Woodrow Wilson

"Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Our American values are not luxuries but necessities—not the salt in our bread, but the bread itself. Our common vision of a free and just society is our greatest source of cohesion at home and strength abroad—greater than the bounty of our material blessings."
-Jimmy Carter

"Recognizing and confronting our history is important. Transcending our history is essential. We are not limited by what we have done, or what we have left undone. We are limited only by what we are willing to do."
-George W. Bush

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.
-James Garfield

"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."
-Abraham Lincoln

"One man with courage is a majority."
-Thomas Jefferson

"Above all, tell the truth."
-Grover Cleveland

"I offer nothing more than simple facts, plain arguments, and common sense."
-Thomas Paine
[My favorite founding father and one of the most underappreciated founders]

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Credits and Additions:
Songs listened to while typing
Check out my hippie playlist atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…

Collection of Artists: We are the world: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzDCBg…

Yusuf Islam: Peace Train: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlHOV5…
^^one of my favorite songs… probably listen to it too much…

Bernice Johnson Reagon: Ella’s song: www.bernicejohnsonreagon.com/ number 7 on the playlist
Tracy Chapman: Talking about a revolution: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZbvi…
Nina Simone: I wish I knew how it would feel to be free: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TarrS…

Lyle Lovett : If I had a boat: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtHYzc…
^^Don’t ask me why this song, since I saw “The Interpreter” and Sean Penn kept playing it this song stays stuck in my head now..

While I am an atheist, this is my favorite “Christmas” song:
Stevie Wonder: Someday at Christmas: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ1-du…


Other pieces to check out:
Anti-American Me: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Not fiscally conservative, fiscally pragmatic atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Leftist Pragmatism vs. Rightist Idealism atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
My political ideologies: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Liberals and gun ownership: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Why socialism? atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Pure socialism vs democratic socialism atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…


Gay Rights:
Gay rights in America I: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Gay rights in America II: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Debate with an “ex gay” Christian convert: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Gay is the New Black. my opinion: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…

Influence map: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
An atheist on theism & atheism: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Declaration of truth: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
What it means to be an atheist: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Atheist leftist answers your questions...:
atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
An atheist debates an atheist on theism: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…

Abortion pieces:
[main piece] Abortion: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Abortion stamp 1: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…
Abortion stamp 2: atheosemanon.deviantart.com/ar…

Check my gallery for other pieces.

As always comrades,
Let knowledge be that truth, which portrays humanity, condemns malevolence; that respects the differences in others while abandoning the hatred and misconceptions of the past.
-Emanon

Related content
Comments: 1102

GP9Xtreme In reply to ??? [2016-06-10 17:24:54 +0000 UTC]

America will fall if Trump wins.

👍: 0 ⏩: 3

kimjongangryplz In reply to GP9Xtreme [2016-12-30 01:08:15 +0000 UTC]

Keep drinking the kool-aid

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Fat-FAN In reply to GP9Xtreme [2016-08-12 22:50:10 +0000 UTC]

Honestly Hillery is so much worse, She's just a good lier so not as many people see it.  Trump really only seems worse because he doesn't know how to lie yet.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

GP9Xtreme In reply to Fat-FAN [2016-08-14 07:19:05 +0000 UTC]

I prefer Hillary over Trump anyday. At least she won't put an end to America.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AtheosEmanon In reply to GP9Xtreme [2016-06-11 02:42:20 +0000 UTC]

Trump or Hillary there will be more war.

I am in New York, so my not voting for either of em will change nothing. NY will go blue.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

CatKush In reply to ??? [2016-06-09 16:24:03 +0000 UTC]

I'm american, and I agree!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to CatKush [2016-06-10 04:15:38 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

bittybears In reply to ??? [2016-06-02 23:57:28 +0000 UTC]

i certainly am ashamed of what my nation has come to. however, that's not to say i am not proud of the great things we have accomplished together. i know and know of many great people and things happening in America, though it seems that all the bad that happens here overrides the good. or, we just don't focus on the good as much as the bad. there is much that could be done to help our country grow greater, but in the meantime, i'm going to support change in America as best as i can for someone my age. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to bittybears [2016-06-03 01:54:31 +0000 UTC]

Well this is not about being ashamed or not being ashamed. It is about America having the ability or greatness or at the very least back to its place in the world where we used to always rank in the top 5 nations for reading, math and science and now for nearly a decade at least we are now in the upper 20s to lower 30s in reading, math and science. We have the ability for universal healthcare, tuition free public institutions of education.. raising the minimum wage  etc.. but we just keep doing the same thing which changes very little.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Orphically In reply to ??? [2016-06-01 22:18:15 +0000 UTC]

America's shit tbh (well, just the USA).

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to Orphically [2016-06-02 18:31:43 +0000 UTC]

I do not think it is "shit" but it certainly could do far better with its institutions of education, green energy, proper healthcare funding and most importantly investing in modern infrastructure.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

SaiyanPrince541 In reply to ??? [2016-06-01 03:39:06 +0000 UTC]

I love your stamps!!! You're really well informed and educated, unlike many of the people I know!!!! Great work!!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to SaiyanPrince541 [2016-06-02 18:33:48 +0000 UTC]

thanks, that is very much appreciated.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LightningSpeed19 In reply to ??? [2016-05-28 22:45:04 +0000 UTC]

I'm proud of mah country, but i'm ashamed of what it is now.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LightningSpeed19 [2016-05-29 04:02:03 +0000 UTC]

It certainly can be better.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LightningSpeed19 In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-29 12:06:03 +0000 UTC]

I agree

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LightningSpeed19 [2016-05-30 16:59:56 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

iClubBabySeals In reply to ??? [2016-05-24 02:48:47 +0000 UTC]

It's actually #13. Denmark is #1.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to iClubBabySeals [2016-05-24 21:03:47 +0000 UTC]

Well this was not looking at country overall, it was speaking to the chant many Americans often says of AMERICA NUMBER 1!!

Of course we would have to see overall what one is speaking to... Sure America is number 1 in military spending, number of imprisoned persons etc.
..  but after decades of cutting of funds to education, mental health etc where we used to always be in the top 5 of reading, math and science we are currently in the upper 20s to lower 30s.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LafHam In reply to ??? [2016-05-23 23:49:13 +0000 UTC]

No country is #1, they all have things good and bad about them. Whether it be its politics or its culture, ect. But I'm still going to be proud of my country. As should everyone else.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LordElthibar In reply to ??? [2016-05-19 02:01:46 +0000 UTC]

Not anymore of course. I'm proud of what my nation was, not what it has become.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-19 16:53:43 +0000 UTC]

It has been decades since we have been..sadly. We used to be in the top five always of reading, math and science and yet since the 1980s we have constantly drifted downward. To now, we are in the upper 20s to lower 30s in global math, reading and science scores.. such a shame.

But, until Americans stop fearing socialism and start investing more in their public institutions of health and education then it shall continue down this trend.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-19 22:36:15 +0000 UTC]

Are you kidding me? Socialism is what got us into this mess. More and more government involvement hasn't helped anything but instead it has made things worse. Private schools and especially home schools are much better than the public schools. Why would you support that?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-21 02:50:38 +0000 UTC]

If the issue were true socialism as you claim we would see actual evidence of such.


The issue is wage stagnation at which has been a problem since the 1980s.. whereas a number of goods Americans are producing increased rapidly yet wages have been rather stagnating.

The issue is, as Asher Eldelman spoke to the velocity of money at which I assume you know what that is since it is taught in Econ 101.

When you have money in the hands of the poor they spend 110% of their funds, yet when money is hoarded by the wealthy they spend maybe 5% of it.. and in a system where 99% of all new income is going to the richest 1% of Americans
.. meaning the other 99% of Americans are left only with 1% of all new income.. the velocity of money is greatly depressed and as such you do not have the stimulation of the market as we saw for decades after the great depression.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-met…

As long as wage stagnation is not addressed then the stimulation of the market will continue to be depressed.

when 1/10th of 1% of Americans own more wealth than 90% of Americans the stimulation of the market as well as market viability are diminished and depressed .
www.politifact.com/virginia/st…



Now, how to address this lies where the road takes us.. better funding of schools, healthcare, an increase in the minimum wage but also tying it to inflation... will we take these broad steps? doubtful.


We can discuss Private v Public schools, I am okay with that as well. Though I have written dozens of pages on education in my gallery.. one needs but look.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-21 07:58:00 +0000 UTC]

No socialism has been messing up everything since it has been put into practice by Obama. Redistribution of wealth doesn't work because poverty culture is only going to fritter it away. The reason that people own all that wealth is because they know how to run a business. Take that away and prices will spike. Look at history, socialism has failed everywhere it has been applied. Seriously, you can't be this stupid.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-22 02:54:56 +0000 UTC]

.. socialism was put into practice by Obama?.

Um, I am pretty sure we had a medicare, medicaid, public schools, social security,  VA hospitals, FEMA etc etc way before Obama...

The poverty argument would work except if we look around the country there are countries at which the standard of living is far higher, yet the disparity far lesser than America.



... we have heard the prices will spike and destroy businesses way back since 1938 when we got a 25 cents an hour minimum wage.

I am a student of history that is why I do not fear socialism and I am also a student of global politics and that is why I can see its implementations and implications in the world market.

.."Seriously, you can't be this stupid."
Ad hominems.

One only latches on to ad hominems when they feel their argument is not on solid ground.. most interesting, sir.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-22 04:42:13 +0000 UTC]

Uh yes! No, I said that you can't be that stupid so think! And now we have yet more government control thanks to Obama and that's socialism. If you are a student of socialism then haven't you even heard of the socialistic systems that were used by Jamestown and Plymouth before a free market system? I have seen the damage socialism and government control have done in Italy and Czech republic and it's a bad idea. Trust me please.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-22 05:53:11 +0000 UTC]

Actually no that is not socialism, and of course it depends on what kind of socialism you are referring to.

What socialism do we have under Obama that was not already there in some respects before Obama or attempted to be implemented before Obama? I mean even in the Affordable Care Act is a 1989 Conservative Heritage Foundation idea at which would do, as they said it would back in 1989 increase the privately insured.

The markets were far more regulated from FDR to the 1980s than the deconstruction of regulatory acts in the 1990s, in the 2000s and even some under Obama.

I am a student of history and global politics, at which even a High School economics or PoliSci course I imagine would teach what socialism is as well as its governmental or economic role that it would play in a society like ours but also in other European economics or dictatorships.

We can speak to Jamestown and Plymouth but that talking point died out years ago when it was logically not tentative to the argument at which one was trying to make.
www.slate.com/articles/life/ho…

But if you would like to discuss the economic, cultural, political, religious etc realities of the day in Plymouth and Jamestown we certainly can..

Hopefully, we also look at contemporary examples of the subject of socialism in both its economic and governmental roles.

We can look at Italy and Czech Republic as well. but funny what of the strongest economy or rather most stable? Germany? Sweden ?.. or pretty much every other industrial nation as plans of stability and their use of far greater socialistic  programs than we do..and for such they have a higher standard of living, they rank far better than America in education, life expectancy, they pay far less for healthcare with comparable results etc. That is not to say there are no issues, every country has issues.

Of course, in order to have meaningful discussion of socialism, which school at which would you like to debate?
Democratic socialism? Marxist socialism? Judaic Socialism? Islamic Socialism? Trotskyist socialism? Stalinist socialism? Leninist socialism? Christian Socialism? Anarchist socialism? Maoist socialism? social democracy? eco-socialism? Irish socialism? Buddhism Socialism? Hindu socialism? Arab Socialism?

There are but some of the schools of socialism at which someone making a cursory view into the history of the schools would come to.. We must of course know at which one we are speaking of, Democratic socialism vs which one you seem to think was the issue between the Jamestown and Plymouth which would seem more of a debate between not democratic socialism but more anarchist socialism or Marxist socialism aka marxism.. of course could be bouts of Leninist idealism as well.. so in order to have a meaningful discussion of socioeconomic theory of socialism, we must first of course say exactly which schools at which we are debating.

I trust truth, usually when people are begging for you to trust them they have yet to earn said trust.

But, this is America you have the right to believe in whatever system you wish of course. I see no want nor desire to get rid of medicare, get rid of medicaid or rather privatize them.I have no grand desire to get rid of public schools, I have no desire to disband police forces, fire departments, ambulances etc..

We are a mixed-market economy, we always have been, especially in the last century, the question beckons then, not whether or not we will have socialism, we will, it is how much we will have and that is generally where the debate is in some respects.

I suspect we may never agree of course and eventually we will simply have to agree to disagree but time will tell.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-22 14:52:59 +0000 UTC]

I am fine with Christianity and with the system they have in Denmark and Norway. But I think socialism cannot work here in this individualistic culture because in this land, people don't know what the heck they are doing. Mixed-market is already technically socialistic.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-22 19:08:15 +0000 UTC]

You are fine with the systems of Denmark and Norway that utilize far more socialistic institutions than we do but think socialism cannot work here because Individualistic culture.

I would tell you to study history.. when we first got medicare.. people cried out socialism!! it will destroy the country!!!! ..
When we first got social security ..people cried out socialism!!!! it will destroy the country!!!!..
when we established long before the 1900s basic police forces and other things paid with public funds.. GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE!!! DESTROY!!!

People often revolt against that which they do not understand.. but they tend to usually grow to appreciate its simplicity and general efficiency with some difficulties as all systems have. No system is perfect.

... Yes, it is.. and we have been a socialistic mied-market for well over a century .. but I see no one speak of getting rid of the military, getting rid of VA hospitals, getting rid of, generally since some do.. medicare, medicaid, public schools. etc.

I guess it is because I have been to every state except Alaska, I have been all across Asia, Europe, I love Australia and South America, I remember my many hours ship ride to Antarctica and  all of its beauty. The only content I have yet to ever go to and do plan to in the future is Africa.. but I have see socialism in these countries .and pretty much  done far better in implications than us.

Germany has the world's oldest universal healthcare system , they got theirs in 1883 and still their health on average is better than Americans, they have a greater standard of living etc.

So I would ask a question of you sir, are you anti socialism all together, as in government should do pretty much nothing or like myself, are you simply against most schools of socialism ?

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LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-22 23:30:27 +0000 UTC]

And medicare is essentially bankrupt. Don't you see that they were right all along? Don't tell me I don't understand, I understand quite well and these systems will only ruin us just like Eastern Europe and the USSR. However though imperfect, a free market would be the best choice. And do you want to know why the Germans are doing so well? It's because they are financially honest and not living on the Keynesian economics course. I'm against socialism in the United States because Americans don't know how to be financially honest and we are far too individualistic, so don't tell me that we need socialism.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to LordElthibar [2016-05-23 03:42:32 +0000 UTC]

No grand disrespect but not a student of economics nor public policy I see.

There is not one projection of governmental economics at which medicare will go broke or close to it.

www.politifact.com/wisconsin/s…
www.medicareresources.org/blog…
www.cbpp.org/research/health/m…


We often hear these things from groups at which dislike a program. We hear it most often not of medicare which is not as you say "essentially bankrupt" since it was not intended to carry on trillions and reserves .. but we most often hear this claim of Social security which is why I admit I was a bit surprised that was not your go-to thing rather than medicare.. a swirling lie that has been going around for a few years and very easily to check up on.


Since your opening premise was false I am unsure which "they" you are referring to?


It does not seem that you do understand since you made a claim at which is verifiably false. now if you take this claim as a matter of belief then so be it there is little I can say to change your mind in a belief based environment but studying the economics of it, and budgeting of it there is no way someone can say it is "essentially bankrupt" unless they believe medicare operates in a way at which it does not.


If you wish to discuss the USSR and Eastern Europe and their many issues, the least of which was socialism and the forefront of which more authoritarian regimes. We can but we appear to be, by your statements hoping around searching for a premise to fit a foregone assumption.

We have heard the free market would be the best choice, I more so trust the Father of modern Capitalism, Adam Smith in his book "The Wealth of Nations" at which even spoke of the best system being of a mixed market ,, the hard part of course if you read the text or look at our society comparative to others is finding that right mix.. to make sure the markets are privately owned but somewhat regulated and that too much regulation does not occur.


Do you think Germany is not utilizing a Keynesian method? They are certainly not on the Hayek Model.

We do need it, I see no point in disbanding police forces, getting rid of fire departments, stripping street sweepers, disbanding our military endeavors. nor do I wish to do away with Public schools, medicare, Medicaid [unless progression towards a single payer is that thing]

Now, I await the  next comment and will reply accordingly. but as I said, I expect this will either go on forever or we will agree to disagree but time will tell all things.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-23 13:11:08 +0000 UTC]

I tried to reply to LordElthibar comment "I don't have to be. I'm a student of history and we would only be repeating history if we let in these socialist programs in. Stop trying to force your agenda down my throat as fact and look at historical facts for a change! I'm not going to look at an internet source when books are more reliable."


with this comment
"If we let these socialistic programs in"
They are already in and in some cases have been in for well over a century which beckons back to the Smith's text of finding the right balance between the two in our mixed-market economic system.

So disagreeing with you is forcing my agenda down your throat?

Those links cited books, and I also cited the book of the father of Modern capitalism.

It appears now since you did not even try in that text to make an argument that this is coming to its end."


But it appears this individual has blocked me.. which is most telling to the weakness of one's premise when they would rather block rather than defend their premises.

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LordElthibar In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-23 06:00:51 +0000 UTC]

I don't have to be. I'm a student of history and we would only be repeating history if we let in these socialist programs in. Stop trying to force your agenda down my throat as fact and look at historical facts for a change! I'm not going to look at an internet source when books are more reliable.

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AriaGrill In reply to ??? [2016-05-16 18:26:58 +0000 UTC]

TL;DR

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kimjongangryplz In reply to AriaGrill [2016-12-30 02:51:07 +0000 UTC]

Another idiot ignores the facts...

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AriaGrill In reply to kimjongangryplz [2016-12-30 03:57:04 +0000 UTC]

nah just someone with a life who doesn't reply to year old comments

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Tyr-Opfer In reply to ??? [2016-04-20 13:13:44 +0000 UTC]

There are a billion ideas on how to solve the worlds problems, problem is finding which one or many will actually work. The most beautiful ideas also are the least likely to work; every try costs the world or someone something.

The world is like capitalism, you prosper from what you create and suffer from what you do not.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to Tyr-Opfer [2016-04-20 13:46:11 +0000 UTC]

With respect to this stamp, I am not really or particularly speaking of solving the world's problem, - for this stamp just the issues at which plague this country.

America, like most industrial countries, is a mixed-market system. I have owned my own business over a decade, pay those that have worked for me or I hire for this or that job well.. I am saying if you are going to take a chunk of my six figure income... invest it in schools, invest it in prison reform, invest it in healthcare... not billions in corporate subsidies and trade policy at which makes us lose jobs. Use the money wisely.

..but expecting government to be wise eh ..

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Tyr-Opfer In reply to ??? [2016-04-20 12:58:00 +0000 UTC]

So it's not america you think isn't #1 but the idea of a capitalist America that you think is not.

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MathildasDoubel In reply to Tyr-Opfer [2016-05-02 07:50:05 +0000 UTC]

You know... may be this is a slightly avantgardistic thought, but perhaps there's no #1 country.

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Tyr-Opfer In reply to MathildasDoubel [2016-05-02 12:36:00 +0000 UTC]

Avantgardism? Not exactly sure that would be the proper term to describe such a thought; that aside, like in everything in life there is someone on top and on bottom, first and last, or similarly one better than another. So who is #1 depends on the factors in which to judge a nation? Life span, wars won, longest standing nation, or the sum of all beneficial factors attributed to a nation compared to another; the best nation is generally considered on a scale so depending on what one is looking for in a nation any can be number one.

The best example of the belief in a #1 country is Nationalism.

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MathildasDoubel In reply to Tyr-Opfer [2016-05-02 12:51:13 +0000 UTC]

to have someone on top and someone on bottom needs someone to judge and cathegorise them and someone to set the rules for the judging.
cathegories don't come out of nowhere, there's a human mind behind it.
if you don't rate them, there's also not one on top or on bottom.
I don't think there a better or worst ethnicity...we're just differ from each other.
I don't think my culture would be any more or any less worthy if I were born US-American, French or Filippino.

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Tyr-Opfer In reply to MathildasDoubel [2016-05-02 14:17:54 +0000 UTC]

Well that is a rather... definitive conclusion. Taking humans out of the equation affects any sort of judgment by throwing it out the window.

And rating something is only natural, humans naturally dictate what is good and bad for it and what to watch for. As a species we look for what we feel benefits us the most and will strive for it.

In such a way opinions will be made over everything based on what is perceived to be most beneficial, and in turn categorized according to it's benefit.

An example in which is in choosing a home, what is better for the individual? Add a family and now one will think what benefits the family most? What is best has now changed based on what is most beneficial to the family.

Making judgments according to need is essential and normal.

So no matter how we look at it humans in general will categorize and judge everything presented to us.

It's why i'm sure you would rather live where you do than say MT. Everest, which one is better? The choice is obvious which can be stated as ok that is the better option, or considering more than two options option A, is better than B or C, but B is better than C so in essence that would make A categorized #1.

Though i don't see how ethnicity play's into the particular subject, but technically you could break it down the same way by what is most beneficial.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to Tyr-Opfer [2016-04-20 13:43:47 +0000 UTC]

Not really "capitalist America" more so the means at which America prioritizes things.

America, as a revenue stream, makes more than any other nation, but how we choose or what we choose to spend it on leaves much to be desired.

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PingasSenpai In reply to ??? [2016-04-15 14:49:20 +0000 UTC]

I respectfully disagree, because I love America. And no, before anyone gets on my case, I'm not a bigoted bible thumping conservative who will smack you across the face with a cross if you don't love Jesus. Even though I am liberal af, I still love America and its freedom.

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LafHam In reply to PingasSenpai [2016-05-23 23:46:31 +0000 UTC]

As do I.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to PingasSenpai [2016-04-17 17:40:53 +0000 UTC]

Um... what did this piece have to do with religion or anything?

Or even freedom?

It spoke to America not being number 1 in healthcare, not number 1 in education, etc ..

We are number 1 in ..prison population, defense spending, etc.

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PingasSenpai In reply to AtheosEmanon [2016-05-24 20:45:06 +0000 UTC]

Usually conservatives are the ones who think America is the best at everything.

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AtheosEmanon In reply to PingasSenpai [2016-05-24 21:04:40 +0000 UTC]

If they can cite an objective fact to prove their case, great.. I doubt many of them can.

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