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daniellesylvan — Choice
Published: 2007-11-22 04:01:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 12656; Favourites: 314; Downloads: 93
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Description
My view on abortion, my friend brought up the subject, and it inspired me to draw this.I got some of the idea from America's Next Top Model. lol xD;; In one of their photoshoots, they did political issues, and a girl had this written on her stomach.
I used [link] as a slight ref. I changed the position a bit though.
Pro-choice all the way!
Do not use this image without my permission.
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Comments: 597
That was one of the best arguments I've seen.
Oh and hi fellow atheist.
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Which one? And hello right back to you
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Pretty much all those points you brought up.
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I just don't get people sometimes
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I didn't notice it was such an old drawing at first. Old or not, it's still beautiful, and still carries a solemn message. More people should think like you
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Thank you very much
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I may not agree with abortion at all, but it's a personal choice.
If you don't want kids, don't have sex till you do. If you do have sex do it protected.
very nice old drawing btw.
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Thanks, and I agree with that too
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Your welcome
I wish more people though that way.
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For me, it depends on the situation.
If I would get raped, I wouldn't want to have the kid. If I physically couldn't have a kid, and I could really hurt myself or even die trying to give birth, then, obviously, I wouldn't want to have the kid.
But if it's just "eh, I don't want a kid/ am not ready for one (in certain cases)," then that's different. If you aren't prepared for risks, you shouldn't have sex and let those risks come up.
For the most part though, I'm pro-choice.
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I primarily think abortion should be available because of rape. However, I also believe women should always have the right to decide what happens to their body, and when. Though I don't morally agree with women who treat abortion as a casual way to get out of a pregnancy, I would never agree to deny them of the right.
So, we're basically on the same page
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Is it bad that I actually believe this...probably more than most people? I don't even like babies all that much, personally; abortions mean nothing to me. I wouldn't have a problem with OMGMURDER.
But it's only an opinion.
Back on topic, I adore this picture. This will look odd, but her legs are really well-painted!
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I personally think that women shouldn't rush into abortions or treat them casually, but I also believe women should decide when and what happens to their body. So even if it's not the most moral situation, I would never agree with denying a woman a right to an abortion. However, I mostly think it is important to offer them because of rape.
Thanks for the comment! This is a very old picture (I made it in 2007 when I was only 14) so please check out my newer work too
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Well yeah, obviously rushing into them is a bad thing. I'm just not really moved by the 'tragedy', because like you said further down, it all depends on your opinion of where life starts.
Oh, it's no problem, and sure! Be prepared for a possible favestorm, just in case.
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Oooh thanks I love favestorms haha
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Hmm, how about this:
If we have a right to create life, we also have a right to take life away. We can't have one without the other.
I believe in pro- last resort.
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I mostly support allowing the choice for abortion because of rape. It would be unfair to deny a woman the rights to decide what happens to her body after they have already been taken away the first time through rape.
Agreed
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You have an opinion,
Supporting logic?
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No need to be rude.
I made this when I was 14 (I am 19 now) and I still hold the same views.
I also still hold the views that deviant art is not the appropriate place to be shoving opinions down people's throats. I did not feel the need to write an essay explaining myself for something I think is explained very obviously by stating that I am pro-choice.
But because you asked, I will just sum it up for you. I believe that women should have the right to choose what happens to their body. I do believe that their rights come before the rights of an unborn fetus. I do not view it as "killing babies".
However, I am not saying I am "pro abortion". In a perfect world, women would not have abortions, but in a perfect world they would also not be raped. I can see how people who oppose abortion can be angry that some women use it as a casual way to get out of a pregnancy. But it would be unfair to deny it to a woman in the case of rape; she has already lost the rights to her body once, forcing her through it again is simply cruel.
I can also tell you right now I will not change my mind, so there is really no point in arguing. I think everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but it's when they start forcing it on others that it becomes an issue.
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Being rude has nothing to do with it, being able to support your opinion is.
"I also still hold the views that deviant art is not the appropriate place to be shoving opinions down people's throats."
By posting your defending logic??? Horseshit >:U!
Cramming your beliefs means going around preaching to everyone every chance you get, not posting some art about it >:/. It's indirect. Derp.
" I did not feel the need to write an essay explaining myself for something I think is explained very obviously by stating that I am pro-choice."
I'm not asking you to "explain yourself" I'm asking you to present your supporting logic. If you want to be able to argue anything, you have to have logic or it's defunct.
"I do believe that their rights come before the rights of an unborn fetus. I do not view it as "killing babies"."
That fetus will eventually could become a born fetus, a infant, a baby, a child, a kid, a tween, a teen, an adolescent, a young adult, a full adult, a middle-aged, an elder, a dead, iff that process is not interrupted. With that logic you could easily put someone down until they are emancipated, whether by age, circumstances, or by filing for emancipation. Children are still dependent on their parents, or whoever else is taking care of them, just outside the body, rather than in. Also, doesn't this planet act as a sort of womb for us? Are we not constantly dependent on it's resources? With this logic of yours, you state that this planet should be allowed to terminate any one of us, and we shouldn't do a damn thing about it. Which is complete and utter bullshit.
Do you know what Reverse Causality is? No, I didn't think so.
"However, I am not saying I am "pro abortion". In a perfect world, women would not have abortions, but in a perfect world they would also not be raped."
Cool and yes.
I don't actually have too much against abortions in cases like the one you just mentioned and physiological danger to the mother.
In a perfect world, women, threw just a few thoughts, can turn their reproductive organs on or off. Yes. You heard me right. Brilliant, isn't it? Also, I have this bullshittingly awesome idea of a incubation chamber that is a literally artificial womb that does awesome things. You want me to explain it??? (plzsayyes)
"But it would be unfair to deny it to a woman in the case of rape; she has already lost the rights to her body once, forcing her through it again is simply cruel."
Well, again, I don't agree with the "it's her body" logic, but the end game I don't have an issue with.
"but it's when they start forcing it on others that it becomes an issue."
Not if it can be argued through solid logic.
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"That fetus will eventually could become a born fetus, a infant, a baby, a child, a kid, a tween, a teen, an adolescent, a young adult, a full adult, a middle-aged, an elder, a dead, iff that process is not interrupted." It would, but due to the abortion, it didn't notice and it didn't care; because it wasn't even self aware yet. Simply biologically speaking, fetuses aren't human beings.
Also, by that chain of logic when a man masturbates he's commiting murder. Not massmurder though, since most of the sperm cells wouldn't make it anyways.
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"it didn't notice and it didn't care; because it wasn't even self aware yet."
Okay, what if I were to remove your ability to think or feel, and then euthanize you when you could have easily have done a lot of good and you've done absolutely nothing wrong? Hmm? You wouldn't care, you wouldn't notice it, so what's the problem?
H4H4H4. That ship is sunk, bro.
"human beings."
Oh hey, it's that over-used term again.
"Also, by that chain of logic when a man masturbates he's commiting murder."
While life is a constant, the process to generate a new organism hasn't started until fertilization. Once that process starts, that's it.
Also, your reasoning essentially states that if you suspect a person to be suicidal, you wouldn't ever help them because they aren't suicidal yet when they COULD be. Logic fail.
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If it had been self aware at any stage before abortion, then lost that self awareness (doesn't matter if forced or accidental), I'd be against that.
And what term would you prefer me to use? Organism? When I pour alcohol on a cut I'm killing organisms so that it won't get infected.
That's it? No, it's just another step towards creating a human. Yes, it is more advanced then a single sperm cell, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere close to being a complete human (yes, I'll keep using that word. THank you very much)
If I suspect a person is suicidical, I'd try finding out if they are. If they were, I'd try to help them get their head out of that idea. If they weren't, that'd mean they're probably just depressed, hence also worthy of attention.
And I'm pretty sure that no, it's not the same thing. Obviously you won't give a shit about any argument I write because you're convinced your opinion is the one and only valid one.
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That's much better than your previous explanation. I can see that happening.
Who said anything about terms pertaining to that 
Sexual intercourse in the more complex organisms is halfly controlled by a conscious being (especially in humans), but on the other hand, the growing process is entirely automatic.
I'm talking about the "human being" bullshittery. It radiates mild supremacy and is commonly used people who don't really understand the way existence, much less nature, works. Just "human" is fine :U.
The problem is your use of the "would be, could be" argument in one place, but not anywhere else. You're future-oriented in one place, but not the other. A little something called a double-standard.
Actually, it is.
This isn't about my opinion vs yours, this about me testing your opinion for acceptable logic. I'm barely considering my own beliefs.
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Since you're writing it, I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.
Oh, okay. I'll use human then.
My use? ahahaha I am sorry? Your argument is it COULD be a human being if you let it grow. Mine is it isn't a human being yet. I'm sorry, but you just lost most of your credibility.
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I'm being absolutely serious. No sarcasm. Typically I will hint that I'm being sarcastic.
Sure.
Your use of it IN ONE SITUATION BUT NOT THE OTHER. JFC 
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Alrighty then.
Oooh wait. I got it the other way around. You mean my use of could/would in the case of someone being suicidical, but not with an unborn fetus, right?
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I guess you have a point there
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I don't understand your comment in regards to the first part you quoted me on. I think you misunderstood my comment, because I am agreeing with you on that point.
As for the second part, about needing to defend my opinion in an argument- who said I wanted to argue? You approached me. I personally think arguing about abortion is stupid because it's all about opinions, not facts. There's no "right" or "wrong". People just get mad and it never gets anywhere. It's quite honestly, stupid.
You also present yourself as very pretentious, saying " do you know what this is, no I didn't think so."
Way to give me time to answer right? Haha.
I still don't consider it as killing babies. My philosophy teacher made a good point about this. The being only is what it is at the present time. At the time of abortion, it is a fetus that is "expected to become a child." And yes, I'm aware of how science works and that human fetuses WILL become children, etc. I'm not stupid. However, the point is that you can't talk about something that hasn't happened yet. You can't say "Well it's going to be a child eventually, soo...." Because at the time, it is a FETUS.
Once more, I don't care to argue about something so pointless. You are clearly pro-life and I don't intend to change your opinion. You seem to intend to change mine, but I can tell you right now that no matter what you say I am not going to turn around and say "OH HEY I WAS WRONG ABORTION IS BAD, I AM PRO-LIFE NOW"
Argue with someone who wants to argue, I'm sure there are plenty.
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"I don't understand your comment in regards to the first part you quoted me on. I think you misunderstood my comment, because I am agreeing with you on that point."
Arguing isn't shoving it down either. Shoving it is making your opinion known in everyone's faces and not accepting counter-arguments.
"As for the second part, about needing to defend my opinion in an argument- who said I wanted to argue? You approached me."
Even so, if you don't have good logic, you're intellectually lying to yourself. That's even worse to lying to other people
"I personally think arguing about abortion is stupid because it's all about opinions, not facts."
You've completely ignored a huge point of mine, obviously.
"You also present yourself as very pretentious, saying " do you know what this is, no I didn't think so."
Way to give me time to answer right? Haha."
You present yourself as if feeling matters more than facts.
Also, I gave you plenty of time, you just had to say you knew, instead of instead of pointing out how "bad" I am.
"My philosophy teacher made a good point about this. The being only is what it is at the present time."
He who controls the past controls the future.
He who controls the present controls the past.
So yeah, it actually does matter.
Oh, and you completely ignored the next point I made. Strawman much "
"Once more, I don't care to argue about something so pointless. You are clearly pro-life and I don't intend to change your opinion. You seem to intend to change mine, but I can tell you right now that no matter what you say I am not going to turn around and say "OH HEY I WAS WRONG ABORTION IS BAD, I AM PRO-LIFE NOW"
Argue with someone who wants to argue, I'm sure there are plenty."
Holy shit, you ignored a huge point of mine and then even assumed that I'm pro-life
-
You see arguments as solely emotional, which is complete bullshit. You didn't even give notice to any of the other things I said.
You are trying to "win" this argument via an opt-out, but with the same fallacious bullshit that the arguers use. You pay too much attention to the bad shit, and not the good shit, giving them no acknowledgement, unlike myself 
You're absolutely right, arguing with you is absolutely useless. Oh, and who said it was all arguing? What about my thing about the incubation chamber? Don't you want to hear about it? Or are you to busy rolling in your butthurt to even care?
Let every independent inventor frown upon you this day ಠ_ಠ.
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Uhhh really man? Getting on my case because I don't feel like arguing with you about something? That's silly to assume I'm "trying to win this argument", "butthurt" about what you said (what the heck?), and how my logic isn't strong enough for my opinion.
I clearly said I do not feel like arguing or explaining myself to you. I could easily go into a lot of detail about why I believe what I do, represent my case, etc. I just feel that it is unnecessary. And I am anticipating that you will reply with something along the lines of "Oh you're just saying that because you have no logic, you're trying to take the easy way out, etc!"
You can choose to believe that, I honestly don't care. I know what I believe and that's all that matters to me. In fact, I wrote my final essay in my Philosophy class on abortion and my stance on it, got 98/100. Teacher was a tough grader too. You can choose to believe that or not, or give it credit or not. One again, I don't care. You need to learn that just because people don't want to play along with your annoying assumptions doesn't mean you are automatically right and they are automatically bad at arguing or don't have legitimate opinions.
And yes I ignored a lot of what you said because I thought it was stupid and I clearly told you I did not feel like arguing. I've said that so many times now, do you get it?
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Do you need a hug 
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"Uhhh really man? Getting on my case because I don't feel like arguing with you about something? That's silly to assume I'm "trying to win this argument", "butthurt" about what you said (what the heck?), and how my logic isn't strong enough for my opinion."
No, I'm getting on your case because you're arguing with me even though you said you didn't want to. Also, you're assuming that I was actually trying to argue.
You're assuming anyone is trying to win this argument.
Butthurt is essentially being whiney and angry and shit. You know, like little kids.
Because it isn't. Not what you've presented, anyway.
"I clearly said I do not feel like arguing or explaining myself to you."
Who said I was arguing with you? Why can't I tell you my stance too? Is there some crime with that? Holy shit.
"I could easily go into a lot of detail about why I believe what I do, represent my case, etc. I just feel that it is unnecessary."
Why the fuck are you presenting any argument at all, when don't want to argue??? Don't slap people with flaccid dicks and then get the hell out of Dodge.
"And I am anticipating that you will reply with something along the lines of "Oh you're just saying that because you have no logic, you're trying to take the easy way out, etc!""
If you don't want to present your logic, then don't, but don't turn around and tell me your beliefs instead and think that's any different, because it is not.
You're not taking the easy way out, you're being butthurt and a hypocrite. Stop making a fool out of yourself and calm your tits.
"You can choose to believe that, I honestly don't care."
You don't care about what others think ಠ_ಠ?
"I know what I believe and that's all that matters to me."
Then you won't get very far in life
"In fact, I wrote my final essay in my Philosophy class on abortion and my stance on it, got 98/100. Teacher was a tough grader too. You can choose to believe that or not, or give it credit or not."
"You need to learn that just because people don't want to play along with your annoying assumptions doesn't mean you are automatically right and they are automatically bad at arguing or don't have legitimate opinions."
Once again, you think this (me, you, this whole situation) is about winning.
I never once fucking said that all of your shit is invalid just because you opt-out, I'm saying if you don't have proper logic, then you're lying to yourself. I didn't say you had to present it or it's invalid, only your presented argument is invalid if you have no logic to support it. You don't want to argue so that's n/a, and this piece just symbolizes your views so that's also n/a.
"And yes I ignored a lot of what you said because I thought it was stupid and I clearly told you I did not feel like arguing."
You ignored all of my GOOD points, AND you ignored all of the cool stuff that we could be talking about instead. Remember the incubation chamber? Why aren't we talking about that instead of arguing? My God, you are seriously butthurt.
Instead of reminding me that you don't want to argue, you flip your shit about how wrong I am about my opinion and what I am doing, yet at the same time, you're doing the very same thing and using your position to somehow justify your actions. Oh, and you also assumed wrongly about me, too (assuming I was actually trying to argue and assuming my stance on the pro-life vs pro-choice thing). Nice going, cupcake.
Now, are you going to continue to bullshit me, or are we going to talk tech and cool stuff for solving problems and shit? Don't you wanna hear about some awesome?
PS: You could have just asked me if I was arguing after my second comment
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Just gonna jump in here and say that I'm actually interested in this incubation idea.
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Well, first of all the removal operation is done over the chamber (the way it's set up will be futuristic as hell, because it'll take 10 years for me to even get around to it :U), so there's no delay for transfer.
The chamber's computer actually takes samples of the embryonic fluid and develops it's generated environment based off of it.
It sort of "grows" a bio-mecanical umbilical cord to what remains of the child's end (you don't cut it down to the nib >_>).
For the blood-cycling system, it only needs three of the mother's type, and it has all it's own cleaning systems, that can go at least 4 months without maintenance. It would be best if the mother could give at least one pint :U (it also costs money for these).
The chamber can synthesize just about anything (considering this is some time in the future), and there's also something neat I will explain.
After everything is set up, the mother can actually keep track of what she eats, what music she listens to, and she can even talk to her kid as if she was there, over either an app or a completely separate device (can't decide. Also, she can use her cell-network as a medium, or go through the hospital, which the dues will be placed on her bill. If she does use her own service, medical insurance will agree to cover it or I will bust caps and split wigs
I guess a separate device would be easier :U.
It would use FLAC for direct sound so it's lossless yet light on data, and she could give a portable harddrive with her music library. iTunes would work too for when she uses her portable media player. Most everything in the future is going to be inter-linked, and this process will cost a bundle, so this will work :U.
After it's over, the device resets and clears out all the data (this, of course, must be done manually to prevent sabotage, and if there's still a kid in there, it's impossible because of fail-safes). Power loss? No prob, the device is actually very low-power and uses it's own system, so of course it's going to have a day's worth of battery life. The motion-generator is also pretty low-force (because of reasons that everyone knows), so it can work with the batt, too.
"Wait, how do we tell when he's fully grow?"
Simple, the child is the one who actually tells the mother it's ready through chemicals and all that jazz. The machine would detect this and notify both the parents (most likely through the device) and the doctor immediately. Of course, there is the issue of whether or not she will be diligent about keeping track of it :U. Oh and the device will be a simple cut-down version of a "smart" phone, so it won't be pricey as far as development goes. Android is Linux-based, so this will be a piece of fucking cake
Did I forget to mention the whole thing is portable
Even take it to foreign countries, yeah! No specialized facility required! But a good doctor would be nice, of course 
Oh, remember how I said it was portable? You can charge it via a solar-cell. Fuck yeah, son. I don't skip a beat.
As for the weight, the materials will be really nice and light-weight, plus it's pretty compact, and eventually, even moreso.
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I took the time to read and comprehend that entire thing and it's one of those ideas that's like "Holy shit why didn't anybody think of this before?!" when the technology gets up to par with this idea (and most of it has. I mean we're growing organs in labs) this would be an amazing thing. Expensive but amazing!
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I daydream ^w^.
Yes, expensive as hell. Well, at first, but then later it will become cheap as stuff, but not before the ability for either a man or woman to turn off his/her zygote producing facilities. Unfortunately, it will cause the condom industry to go to the shitter real quick and real fast, if the genes themselves aren't handled by money-grubbing assholes
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Hey there's no harm in that!
Ughh...considering how it is now, there's going to be big business in controlling genetics. Humans are such shallow and vain creatures, I'm no exception I know, but I'm aware. There's money to be made in creating the most beautiful or the strongest people in the world. Individuality, at least physically, will be lost.
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Actually I just came across a post that says day-dreamers are better at solving complex issues, which I just proved in my EGR-273 class, which works with programming in MATLAB. I know it's true! 'Have for a while now, anyway. Most of my ideas come when just pacing around :U. Which is why waiting till the last minute to turn in papers is... well, something no one should ever do 
Nah, it's not just humans. It's in our fucking genes (mother nature is a terrible engineer). Although I despise Dawkins, his thing on "the selfish gene" is fairly spot-on, yet it also means that we don't have to blame ourselves. We're picking up after someone else's mistakes!
Interesting fact: I have these extraordinarily selfish suggestions that I get a lot in my head. Most of them are retarded beyond belief, and simple logic bashes their head in. They aren't even me is the weird part :U. Can't tell if trolling demons or just stupid nature. Don't know and don't~ care.
Yep. Soon the mind too :/.
I can't wait till our first Simplification 
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This is all just so stupid. I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I am not trying to have an argument with you, I am telling you to leave me alone because I don't want to argue. You also need to stop assuming I am "lying to myself" becuase I "have no logic to support my opinion". I am in no way trying to explain my logic to you. If I were, well then, you would have every right to make fun of everything I said because I would be a terrible arguer. But the point is, I'm not. I'm telling you to stop because I don't feel like getting into it, especially with someone who is so pretentious and exaggerating everything I say.
If you want to think I'm some idiot who doesn't know how to argue or what I'm talking about, awesome, you can think that. And that's funny about not getting "far in life" because I won't explain myself to you. I have the right to choose not to argue with idiotic, annoying people on deviant art of all places, where I come to post my artwork, not deal with morons.
I am not going to respond to you anymore. I take it you're going to assume this means you "won" which is funny, but sure go ahead and celebrate and write back another stupid comment. I won't answer. Have a good time annoying the hell out of people online instead of getting out into the real world and doing something productive with your life. I don't have time for this, you know why? I have a job and friends and college. See ya.
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Once again, you payed attention to all the "bad" things. I just told you to stop bullshitting, and let's talk about some cool technology. Holy fucken shit.
Can't tell if butthurt or just butthurt
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So, you're okay with killing babies?
That's totally not creepy at all of you.
I found this via the Loudest Opinions group. If you have loud opinions, then I'm allowed to have them too. Fuck abortion.
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LOL. Favorite comment. I want to make a journal devoted to this comment. Oh goodness, kids these days...
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>implying I'm a kid
Huh?
Also, you don't think it's weird to murder? What's wrong with you?
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I don't recall ever saying or implying such a thing. Please enlighten me of to how you imagined me saying this?
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You're okay with murdering children, therefore you don't think it's weird. Or am I the only one who gets that logic?
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Seeing as I never said I'm okay with murdering children, you made it up, so yes you are the only one who gets that logic.
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You're okay with abortion, correct? Abortion=murder of a child. You take the life of a child, that's murder.
I don't think I'm making it up when you yourself made a picture about you being okay with murdering children.
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