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Published: 2015-06-07 22:19:05 +0000 UTC; Views: 21883; Favourites: 463; Downloads: 163
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Description
I've looked for a nicely detailed, affordable, ($15-$30) scientifically accurate raptor type figurine these last few weeks, and they pretty much don't exist. I think Carnegie makes one, and it sucks. Even a lot of the higher end resin models out there are still stuck on "A hurr hurr, Velociraptor was six feet tall and had pronated hands!" For the record: shame on you, Papo. Shame on you.
So I'm doing my part to change that. I managed to find my figurine, but it wasn't easy, dammit, and it sure as hell wasn't mainstream.
I love Jurassic Park, but I recently rewatched it and was very struck by the scene where Grant says about the fossil "No wonder these guys learned how to fly" and everyone laughs at him. Because in my reading, scientists knew the connection between birds and dinosaurs ages before. Like, the ink on Origin of the Species wasn't even dry before Huxley said birds evolved from dinosaurs, and by the 60s that got rediscovered so by the 90s paleontologists were like "Yeah, birds are surviving dinosaurs." Granted, maybe it was the movie trying to spoonfeed updated science to drooling masses, but that brings me to the whole problem this tutorial is trying to address.
I've seen some really great art, 3d and otherwise, of the Jurassic Park raptors, and I can't figure out why, if you're going to put that much time and effort into something, would you not bother doing your research in the first place? I understand if it's fanart. It's fine to love Jurassic Park; I love it, too, despite its naked, naked raptors. But I see people who are like "Behold! Velociraptor mongoliensis!" and I'm like "Uh, dude, this would make any first year paleontologist laugh until he crapped himself." Is it just the idea that instead of being the slightly menacing Hollywood monster, real Velociraptor being a fluffly chicken sized thing is disappointing? I mean, it's not like Deinonychus or Utahraptor didn't exist. Do feathers make them less scary? Golden eagles can break the spine of a wolf and they have feathers.
There's just a big divide, I've noticed quite suddenly, between science versus what people want to see. And I can't tell if it's because it's what people want to see, or it's because what a company thinks they want to see, or if people are ignorant, unwilling to educate themselves, and demand/accept the parameters given to them by corporate-designed pop culture. The persistence of the Jurassic Park raptor is odd to me, because it's just a little older than the science debunking it as inaccurate. And even within the realm of dino enthusiasts, who one would think demand scientific accuracy, the JP raptors, naked and running around with pronated hands, are disappointingly pervasive. If you do a search just for "raptor" on DA alone, more than half the drawings you will see are the naked versions, and even if they have feathers almost all of them still have pronated hands.
I had to update my own version of dinosaurs during my work on Mark of the Conifer, but I found it to be an awe-inspiring, joyful experience, not something that ripped away my nostalgia and destroyed my love for dinosaurs. I guess I'm just baffled as to why other people would be unwilling to do the same.
No one draws dinosaurs dragging their tails and bellies along the ground anymore. When you're drawing raptors like the JP raptors, you're pretty much saying "I LIKE my dinosaurs to look like Valley of the Gwangi!"
Related content
Comments: 158
Icehawkstone [2023-04-16 23:11:30 +0000 UTC]
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Mecha-GREGOLE [2021-04-15 02:24:06 +0000 UTC]
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GladionEmonanaBoi [2020-08-12 14:55:39 +0000 UTC]
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diolu2 [2020-02-04 22:37:19 +0000 UTC]
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Droemar In reply to diolu2 [2020-02-05 02:16:27 +0000 UTC]
I do, when people treat the raptors from the JP series as scientific statement.
And many do.
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123gone [2018-06-28 21:38:23 +0000 UTC]
Very good tutorial. If you're still looking for scientifically accurate raptor figures I recommend you check out "Beasts of the Mesozoic".
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william023 [2017-11-29 14:48:05 +0000 UTC]
I'd pick these real animals over fictonal mutant denonychus/frog/monitor lizard hybrids anyday of the week. Those jp reaptors remind me of hairless mutant mammals such as sphynx cats, mexican hairless dogs, or hairless rats, all of which have to wear coats and have suncream applied to them, effectively making them ''special needs'' animals.
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Drimill [2017-11-08 19:11:52 +0000 UTC]
I like feathered raptors and JP raptors.
The difference between them is that one is a real animal and second is a genetically engineered movie monster (greatly designed by the way).
I hate when someone tries to shove feathers up jurassic park franchise.
And I also hate when someone calls the JP raptors "velociraptors" or even worse "velociraptor mongoliensis". They should be refered to as just "raptors" or "velociraptor nublariensis".
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seionara [2017-10-30 15:44:47 +0000 UTC]
I suppose for much the same reason so many otherwise beautiful art pieces have wings what are screwed up beyond belief. It's like some artists think that just humans and maybe a few of the more common animals (to an extent) have any sort of anatomical structure.
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Mecha-GREGOLE [2017-08-29 01:33:32 +0000 UTC]
We'are aggressive when we defy science because the people who demand we follow it are... well, they're like you.
People like you act like any work of fiction(note the keyword) that isn't 100% up to date with what we think we know about dinosaurs is thus completely worthless. You look down your nose at people who enjoy Jurassic Park, without regard for the fact that without it, half the people who are interested in dinosaurs today wouldn't be. You tell us what to draw, and you insult us if we don't. I've seen people like you yell at children for not liking the right kind of dinosaur!
People like you act like Hollywood evolution is actual science. That once a group of animals develops feathers, it has no reason to develop scales later on because birds are more evolved than dinosaurs. And you NEVER pass up an opportunity to shit on modern reptiles to make feathered dinosaurs seem cooler.
And the part that gets me the most, because this is something YOU, specifically do(as opposed to a general "people like you") is that you post rants about how science is objective and aesthetic preference is meaningless in the face of science(a statement that is completely meaningless in a work of fiction, btw), then go and stylize your dinosaurs in a way that YOU find preferable. I mean LOOK at that rainbow of tropical bird colors in your gallery? It's pretty, certainly, and 100% okay for you to be drawing them like that, but do you not see the hypocrisy in action?
I mean down in the comments you presume to tell a person what he is and isn't allowed to like because of science. Which only happened because you posted a rant to scream at people for not drawing dinosaurs in a way that you approve of. This is NOT a simple tutorial! This is an undisguised attack! Do you think that's okay?! Do you think being able to say your dinosaurs are more accurate than someone else's is worth that?!
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toast12345678910 In reply to Mecha-GREGOLE [2021-04-12 14:05:47 +0000 UTC]
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Mecha-GREGOLE In reply to toast12345678910 [2021-04-15 05:56:20 +0000 UTC]
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Droemar In reply to Mecha-GREGOLE [2017-09-05 18:00:26 +0000 UTC]
Uh, yes. My dinosaurs are more accurate. And I am okay with that. Very much so.
All I'm saying here is that drawing a Jurassic Park raptor and then trying to claim they're scientifically accurate, and equal to MY scientifically accurate raptors or anyone else's, is bullshit. I enjoy the Jurassic Park movies. At least I can admit I love them despite their giant flaws, instead of insisting they're scientific statements that depict dinosaurs perfectly. I'm a fan. I don't hate JP raptors; hell, I loved Talon from Primal Rage. It's just that most people who would be stupid enough to draw JP raptors and then claim that they're scientifically accurate have never been exposed to dinosaurs outside of the franchise, and it shows. Badly.
The idea that something would evolve feathers and then go back to scales reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution, taxonomy, and physiology in archosaurs, which most modern day reptiles are not. Archosaurs have their limbs directly beneath them, whereas Reptilia crawl on their bellies (think of a modern species like Komodo dragons.) The only modern day animals classified as an archosaur are birds, crocodiles, and alligators. Archosaurs took the path of several taxa, not all, (Maniraptoria, Coeulerosauria, Aves) eventually evolving feathers; non-archosaurs stuck with scales. And considering Reptilia predates Dinosauria and survived Dinosauria, they're an evolutionary success story. And you say I'M invoking Hollywood evolution? Wow. Your ignorance is showing; make sure you run back to the JP movies to get your comprehensive understanding of taxonomy in hand, please.
What I take issue with is people screaming at me that their ignorance is equal to my knowledge. That because they love JP raptors, they're allowed to insist they're scientifically accurate. No. Just no. Anti-intellectualism is way too powerful a force for me to take that lying down. The best argument you can come up with against my aesthetic is that my dinosaurs are too colorful? Dinosaurs, who are related to birds, who exhibit some of the most colorful and vibrant patterns in the natural world? Oh, I'm clutching my heart. (FYI, they color mapped Confucisornis, who has a very flashy black and white pattern.) As long as wrong is a gradation, I'll quote: "It's a little wrong to say a tomato is a vegetable, it's very wrong to say it's a suspension bridge." If I'm wrong, I'm very content (and smug!) to be way, way less wrong than you.
If my science is an attack on your artistic preferences and fee-fees, then please go cry about it somewhere else. Science has the right to tell you your dinosaurs are drawn wrong. Science has the right to say that JP raptors are not accurate. Science says it does not approve of your JP raptors, it's not me and me alone. It's not an attack; it's just facts. And until you can tell me what a post-orbital fenestra is and the role it played in the delineation between reptiles and birds, you're not allowed to claim your ignorance is better than my knowledge.
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Mecha-GREGOLE In reply to Droemar [2017-09-05 21:28:57 +0000 UTC]
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what I'm trying to tell you. Allow me to simplify it:
I'm not getting on your case because you prefer scientific accurate dinosaurs over stylized ones. I'm getting on your case because you're an asshole.
You are everything I detest about the holier-than-thou, "I'm the most up-to-date-so-I'm-better-than-you", "art is invalid if it's not hard science" pseudo-intellectiaul internet dinosaur fandom all rolled up into one infuriating person.
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0Luna123 [2017-08-09 13:42:49 +0000 UTC]
I need a tutorial on raptor talons, can you make one?
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Droemar In reply to 0Luna123 [2017-08-16 06:37:04 +0000 UTC]
Is my other raptor tutorial not helpful enough?
I won't lie, it'd take forever if I did one, but my other tutorial goes into some detail.
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Akalaka [2017-07-29 13:25:27 +0000 UTC]
Jurassic park dino's still look better then any scientifically accurate giant chicken. The fact is people prefer what looks cool over what looks stupid, which is why the jurassic park designs continue to be what people draw and use in various media.
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12monkehs In reply to Akalaka [2017-08-09 14:53:15 +0000 UTC]
It's not that feathers instantly look stupid on dinosaurs, it's because almost no one puts any effort into making feathered dinosaurs look actually decent in the media.(except maybe terra nova and saurian.)
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Akalaka In reply to 12monkehs [2017-08-09 20:56:06 +0000 UTC]
True, outside of a few video games I've only seen a feathered t-rex on the cover of a movie a while back, never watched it but the rex looked alright. And I've never seen the shows or movies you mentioned so i cant say either way.
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12monkehs In reply to Akalaka [2017-08-09 22:15:13 +0000 UTC]
Saurian is a video game. And Terra nova is a show where humanity screwed up so hard that they had to go into a dimension full of prehistoric animals. It had few feathered dinosaurs here and there(albeit most have very sparse feather coverings).
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Akalaka In reply to 12monkehs [2017-08-10 00:17:33 +0000 UTC]
Ahh, the games i'm talking about are primal carnage, and jurassic world the game, it has several variations of various dinos.
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Droemar In reply to Akalaka [2017-07-30 18:40:26 +0000 UTC]
"Better" is a relative term, for sure. There's no accounting for taste.
If "cool" means "ignorant" and "only ever exposed to Hollywood concepts", then yes, JP raptors are cool. Outdated, naked, and ridiculous, but sure. "Cool."
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Akalaka In reply to Droemar [2017-07-31 11:42:44 +0000 UTC]
You're right, better is a relative term, and everyone has different tastes. But ignorant isn't the best word to use, if you've forgotten the "naked" dinos were all over the place in the 90's, not just hollywood. And the feathers thing does make sense, they are the ancestors of birds, but they aren't visually appealing to many people. And yes that can be blamed on jp, but most realistic and accurate isn't what's popular in most forms of media. And the reason i (and possibly many others) prefer the jp designs is because a giant lizard is more visually appealing then a giant bird.
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Droemar In reply to Akalaka [2017-08-02 17:09:59 +0000 UTC]
Uh, yes, "ignorant" captures dinosaurs in the 90s. "Ignorant" means "didn't know any better." The science has come much farther now. And in fact, feathered dinosaurs were confirmed in 1996.
And if the only thing you have to defend the JP raptors is nostalgia filter, then that means as long as children are introduced to scientifically accurate dinosaurs they'll accept them. Which is what they should be presented with.
Your only other complaint seems to be "Feathers aren't visually appealing!" Well, cry me a river. I'm not trying to appeal to a Jurassic Park fanbase; I'm trying to update people on how raptors look and why, allowing them to update from an erroneous pop-culture rendering into a scientifically accurate one. The world doesn't need more willful ignorance. You're acting like my efforts to educate are offensive or some shit. The whiniest comments I've gotten on this thing are from people who want the science to match the raptors instead of the other way around. Go draw whatever JP raptors you want. Just don't try to pretend they're equal to the science.
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Akalaka In reply to Droemar [2017-08-02 18:52:17 +0000 UTC]
Wow, I was actually trying to not be rude with my last comment since my first one was kind of rude, and I was hoping you'd do the same. Yet this comment makes you seem like even more of an ass Then the first one. I'm here trying to turn this into a conversation and not an argument, and you are pretty much saying anyone who likes the jp dinos is a whiny idiot. When you’re the one whining just because people have a different preference then you, your trying to sound smart but it’s just coming off as childish. And just in case you misunderstand, my problem is with your attitude not the fact that you like feathered dinos.
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Droemar In reply to Akalaka [2017-08-03 17:30:24 +0000 UTC]
There is no conversation to be had with "My fandom is equal to your science." I've had people comment that they like both the JP raptors and real ones, which is fine. But "I don't like the aaaaaaaesthetiiiics! Giant lizards are so much coooooooooler!" is yes, whiny shit. And lo and behold, look at the people saying that the most! Coming to my page, full of feathered raptors, looking at my raptor tutorial, and saying "But! But! JP raptors are cooooooler!" implies that my scientifically accurate raptors are somehow inferior because of a ridiculous Hollywood preference. Anyone who has that opinion about my work can fuck right off.
You wouldn't be the first to have a problem with my attitude, believe me. I don't have the time to avoid hurting your fee-fees because the science offends your preferences.
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Akalaka In reply to Droemar [2017-08-03 19:00:46 +0000 UTC]
Well, i tried have fun with your feathered raptors.
Here's a crab
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Sugarkanz [2017-01-12 22:28:23 +0000 UTC]
Easy way to remember them: they are awesome, fluffy chickens.
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Rorrx In reply to Sugarkanz [2017-01-13 03:29:18 +0000 UTC]
yess, but chickens are more related to t-rexes XD
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Sugarkanz In reply to Rorrx [2017-01-13 19:35:26 +0000 UTC]
www.answers.com/Q/Who_are_chic…
*puts on shades*
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Sugarkanz In reply to Rorrx [2017-01-17 12:23:08 +0000 UTC]
I was gonna post a legit answer but I guess something went wrong lol
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WindWing101 [2016-08-20 04:54:44 +0000 UTC]
Quick question, because I do love drawing anatomically correct raptors.
I forget if birds can do this, and if so then I suppose raptors could too, but can they bend their hands inwards or outwards? I don't mean twist to make the zombie pronated claws, but curve inwards so the fingertips would point at each other, or outwards so their palms could touch the ground, albeit sideways and spread out
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Droemar In reply to WindWing101 [2016-08-20 16:02:15 +0000 UTC]
Yes. The range of motion is very flexible, just in the opposite direction. Think of birds spreading their wings out, or bringing them together to flap, and you've got the basic range of motion for a raptor.
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WindWing101 In reply to Droemar [2016-08-21 01:24:30 +0000 UTC]
Yes that is what I surmised. Thank you for responding!
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sparkycatkid [2016-01-20 00:26:11 +0000 UTC]
Basically, if you don't have feathers...YOU DIE!!! XD
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Krysiis [2015-10-31 13:00:40 +0000 UTC]
I can definitely see raptors in modern birds, but do you have an idea for what sauropods and larger theropods looked like?
As far as I know, which isn't much since most of my memory is what I learned when I was five, sauropods didn't evolve into anything modern. Would they have feathers or something of the same? And would the T-Rex have feathers as well? I can imagine them with the hands and such, but the feathers is pretty hard to imagine.
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Droemar In reply to Krysiis [2016-03-23 19:32:10 +0000 UTC]
I don't think sauropods were feathered, and in all honesty there was no reason for them to be. They probably had metabolisms and temperature control very similar to an elephant. (Big things are hard to make cold.)
Maniraptors are the only ones who went on to evolve modern-day counterparts, I think (crocs, cockroaches, turtles, and sharks, etc. notwithstanding.) Elephants certainly show convergent evolution, though, in the similarity of their feet.
I am not sure if T. Rex was feathered or not, but there's evidence for it, for sure. I think I personally am more in the camp that youngsters or juveniles had them and eventually shed them, and the large theropods benefited from the same body mass = warmth mechanism that sauropods did.
However, I'm not against the idea. I think T. Rex can look really cool with feathers, like this feathered version of "Sue".
www.shapeways.com/product/UPTE…
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randomdinos In reply to Krysiis [2016-01-07 16:42:17 +0000 UTC]
Sauropods probably weren't feathered, for two main reasons:
-We have skin impressions from sauropodlets inside their eggs that're almost fully scaly.
-Adult sauropods probably had a different type of insulation. The bigger the creature is, the longer it's body takes to cool down: this is actually a problem to modern elephants, which is why they've got those massive ears full of blood vessels. Sauropods were up to 13 times the size of a bull elephant, so they could handle a bit colder environments by just being big (it's the really hot ones that would be bad...)
Funny enough, their scales might've been feathers that evolved into a scale-like shape, like chicken feet.
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Dark-Hyena In reply to Krysiis [2015-11-17 13:03:19 +0000 UTC]
It's highly like T. rex was feathered, considering it had cousins like Yutyrannus and Dilong which were found with feather traces.
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Krysiis In reply to Dark-Hyena [2015-11-17 17:07:11 +0000 UTC]
Thanks! Do you think they'd be fully feathered and covered or just parts?
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Dark-Hyena In reply to Krysiis [2015-11-18 09:37:39 +0000 UTC]
According to this chart, it would appear that Yutyrannus was fully feathered: dark-hyena.deviantart.com/art/…
We could infer that T. rex was the same simply because the rocks it's been found in aren't favourable for feather preservation.
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Krysiis In reply to Dark-Hyena [2015-11-18 13:22:08 +0000 UTC]
What a funny looking creature! I'll be sure to keep that in mind for my drawings!
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GeneralHelghast [2015-10-21 02:33:05 +0000 UTC]
I drew my Deinonychus as featherless and yet its warm-blooded. In my novel series, which I am working on, some of these Deinonychus live in cold enviornment and adapt to the enviornment, thanks to their warm-blooded metabolism. Its smaller relatives in my novel such as Velociraptor will have feathers.
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