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gameman5804 — Nostalgic Thinking
Published: 2018-02-25 01:14:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 1890; Favourites: 21; Downloads: 0
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Ok, I know this is going to come off as more subjective, but considering that some have been complaining about the nostalgia pandering yet they want the Adventure Style to return, it's just flat out hypocritical to me.Yes, I'm sick of the Nostalgia Pandering myself; however, if the Adventure style has to come back, then the safest bet would be to remake SA1 and 2. Let's be honest, If they were to make a new title now with this gameplay, it will most likely bomb in reception. Not to mention, Sonic Team hasn't made an Adventure Styled game since 06, which scarred the formula permanently.
Plus, with the likes of Crash N Sane Trilogy doing extremely well last year, why not give the Adventure games a fresh coat of paint? Just take both games and fix up the gameplay, story, update the graphics and music, and add somethings like 06's free mode, for example. If this remake does do well, it might give more confidence in Sega/Sonic Team and the fanbase since they've show that they're capable before moving advancing forward.
I guess it's still a risky move because of the Nostalgia Pandering complaints, but if an original Adventure title just came out, Adventure fans would lose their shit just like the Classic fans did with Sonic 4.
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Comments: 105
Well do you want another SA styled game? Well too bad! If you don't trust Sonic Team with a new game, you might as well have them start from the basics and give SA1 and 2 a fresh coat. Look forward to that 06 PC fan remake in the meantime.
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I thought you believed that your own preference will save the franchise. You DO give everyone that impression.
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I said, "You seem to give everyone that impression." and let's be honest, you kind of do.
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One of what? A victim? I think you're getting lost in your spam comments, pal.
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No... I think you are.
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A little nostalgia is fine. I loved Sonic Generations, and I even liked Sonic Colors to a degree, it's just that too much was being recycled for too long. Mania's reused zones was the last thing I wanted in the game, but the recycled Classic Sonic mechanics are well received in the awesome new zones that we got.
If we got a Mania version of SA1 and 2, I'd be rather upset. With few new locations and no new developed characters, I'd be sorely disappointed. You can use old assets and do callbacks to a degree, but it's the amount that matters. Think of it like salt. A little is powerful, but too much is awful. I consider Shadow the Hedgehog a game that panders to nostalgia in the wrong ways at times. It butchers Sonic himself as a character, changes Shadow and reuses many old locations and level assets. Nevertheless there's a ton of new content and story content that I do enjoy. Black Doom will be one of the best voice acted villains I'll remember from the series and the potential the game had in the very least left me inspired.
Sonic fans want more effort. Not something like recent Star Wars movies which are soft reboots with poor thought in the larger scope of the previous six movies. The same can be said for Sonic and Force's strange inability to even make Chaos appear as a boss. Nostalgia pandering is bad in large amounts, but again--only in large amounts.
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So... Does that mean you're against a remake of SA1 and 2?
"Shadow the Hedgehog a game that panders to nostalgia in the wrong ways at times."
Eh... to be fair, that game wasn't necessary from a story stand point in my opinion and was straight up lazy with it's own assets at times, Like Glyphic Canyon and Sky Troops. I don't consider it holding nostalgia as the SA2 stuff is to be expected in the story it was going for.
That's why I think remaking the two games is still risky. People are still going to look at it as massive pandering when they don't realize that it's still a decent move. Hell, Classic Sonic was in Forces because the last popular boost game was Generations. Might as well take it a step further
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A graphical update of both those games would do little harm in my opinion. It's a remake after all, and I'm sure we all expect Sega to continue to make new games as well. Just don't tell us the remakes are the new games, when they are not. Don't tell me Mania is new when 70% is rather old and frankly comparable to what I can get out of the ROM hacking community anyways, though some ROM hacks are notably more diverse and interesting.
Shadow's game did use Nostalgia well at times, and the referencing to points in SA2 is generally good. It's just that the game had poor dialogue at times and nonsensical transitions. This is where I say it has a nostalgia crutch as it thinks that riding on Shadow's fame as well as SA2 would give it a free pass in spite of the lack of quality at points.
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I was fine with Sonic Mania because most of the content, even if it was mostly reused, had a decent amount of effort put into it. Though it would've been better if they split the old and new stuff evenly at least. Hey, if Christian Whitehead stays, Let's just hope he's given more creative freedom for a sequel or a possible 3D title. That guy knows his stuff.
As long as it's treated as a revival like how Vicarious Visions did with Crash or Toys for Bob with Spyro, I'm fine with it. I expect them to at least fix the issues that were in the original version, and retell the story with a more refined draft. If Sonic Team cared about story, then that should be a second priority next to the gameplay.
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Yeah, I enjoyed Mania for one playthrough as Knuckles, but that was it. I don't think I could play it again. It has a lot of effort put into it, undoubtably, it's just applied to the wrong skin, that skin being the skin of reused zones.
Meh, don't change it too much if you do. Maybe make more cutscenes to explain some things better, but don't remove anything at least. I guess what I'm saying is if we get a Greedo shoots first scene I'll be upset.
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The problem with Sonic Stories in the Adventure era (Even today) is that they need an overhaul, though.
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They have decent ideas, but the execution was pretty lackluster. SA1 was a mess with all of the characters stories combined into one, SA2 had some distracting plot holes with Professor Gerald and the Military mistaking Sonic for Shadow.
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Not lackluster, not given the time period it came out in. You can't hold games to the same standard before 2000 with those that came out afterword, although both games do notably better than Mario Sunshine.
There aren't any plotholes. People just aren't paying attention to certain stuff.
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Wouldn’t returning to the Adventure formula in the first place still be nostalgia pandering?
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Both would be pandering to nostalgia, kiddo.
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I never said it would get a pass. I just said that both are nostalgia pandering regardless.
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That is a good point.
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THIS. I've been saying this for what feels like forever. Especially in the wake of Forces with the Adventure fanbrats clamoring on their high horses that making an Adventure game will practically make all of Sonic's problems go away. When we all know they'll throw a big hissy fit if it even looks slightly different than the imagined SA3 they've all built up in their minds by this point.
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Guys like TSS and Psyco really need to change their perspectives. Because those two... they are morons.
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At this point, I think Sonic Team needs to take a break from Sonic. Make new a NiGHTS or Ristar game, remake Burning Rangers, or try a new IP. Just something that isn't Sonic. They've only made one non-Sonic game in almost ten years, that can't be good for their output and I think it's really starting to take its toll on them. I'm not saying make Christian Whitehead the only one working on Sonic permanently, but if Sega still wants Sonic games, he can do that while they can experiment with another series then come back with a fresh attitude towards Sonic. I'd also be in favor of letting an outside studio try 3D Sonic, but the Boom wound is still fresh and the only dev I can be sure would pull it off that they could hire is Insomniac.
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Well, Sanzaru Games did make the 3DS Boom Games. I trust them as well.
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I would trust them five years ago because Sly 4 was great, but the 3DS Boom Sonics were pretty mediocre IMO and their other work outside Sly Cooper doesn't fill me with confidence. I'm wondering if they're like Silicon Knights: Only good if they're working with talented people to guide them. I really hope that's not true because I loved Sly 4 so much and would love for them to make more quality 3D platformers.
But another reason Insomniac is my only pick is because they have all the elements down with their other games. They have platformer storytelling and humor down in Ratchet as well as a fast but easy to control way to move around with his rocket boots. Meanwhile Sunset Overdrive was built around wall running, grinding, and bounce pads, so combine the two and Sonic would fit perfectly.
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Well even if the Sonic Boom 3DS Games are just Eh, at least Sanzaru understood what Sonic was while putting their own spin on it.
I like Sly 4 myself as well, so that’s why I trust them. I never played Sunset Overdrive, so I don’t know how capable insomniac is for a Sonic game.
If Sega wanted to do a cinematic spinoff with this series, I’m thinking Naughtydog.
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Naughty Dog is owned by Sony, so they wouldn't be able to get them anyways and I'm unsure if they're still up to do a cartoony game. They're a very different company than when they made Jak games even if their quality is just as consistent. Insomniac's both independent and is still making games to translate well. Even without SO, their quality with the Ratchet games shows they know how to make the kind of game Sonic needs. SO just had a few elements which could work in a 3DS game.
Part of what I was down on with Boom 3DS though was it didn't feel like a Sonic sidescroller. I'm fine with trying something different, but it needs to work and Boom 3DS didn't IMO. If they didn't make a game that captured Sonic and didn't work as its own thing, I just can't think they'd be a good choice. I need to see more output from Sanzaru before I can recommend giving them another stab.
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1.) A man can dream I guess. I liked the cinematic moments in Sonic Forces, like in Egg Gate and Capital City since they gave the stages a little more life.
I wouldn't mind a spin-off series where it's more cinematic. Heck, that's what I want to do. If the Sonic the Hedgehog and Uncharted franchise had a baby, and the former took custody, that would be awesome.
2.) The thing about Insomniac for me, I don't know about how they would handle other franchises outside of their own. Sanzaru got my trust with Sly 4, and they certainly did a better job than Big Red Button with the Sonic Boom games. Sanzaru at least payed most attention to the source material and actually put effort.
Insomniac made:
Spyro
Ratchet and Clank
Sunset Overdrive
Resistance
Though they are making Spider-Man on PS4.
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There's one issue with this, though: Sonic Forces failed to an extent. Meaning we'll be losing Modern Sonic as a whole if the upcoming announcement is Mania 2.
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Mania was received /very/ highly. I have every thought put forward that they'll just make Mania 2 and leave Modern Sonic to the spin-offs.
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Modern Sonic has lived through Sonic 06, Shadow the Hedgehog, and even Sonic Boom. If those didn't kill off Sonic, I doubt any complaints about Forces will make them can Modern.
Plus, Modern has a huge dearth of dedicated fans, who will undoubtedly throw a huge shitstorm should they ever do that.
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To me there's a difference between callbacks (or references), nostalgia pandering and straight up laziness, depending on how subtle and creative it is. Sonic Colors utilizing badniks among the differently dressed Egg Pawns for variety? Callbacks. Sonic Generations, Mania and Forces refurbishing a ton of old levels? Pandering. Sonic Lost World using nothing but older badniks and making almost no new enemies? Laziness. For Sonic anyway, when you get into series like Mario and Kirby fanservice needs an entirely different scale.
Remaking the Adventure games isn't any of those. Remaking the Adventure games is almost a necessity at this point because of how dated the games are. Same situation Crash was in before the N. Sane Trilogy, except arguably worse, because I don't know a single game that suffers more through its presentation (and its presentation ALONE) than SA1. And retrying the Adventure style wouldn't be pandering either. The Boost style is the only other 3D formula that's worked for Sonic and it's wearing out its welcome fast. Besides they brought back the Boost in Forces when they said they wouldn't after Generations. They won't try another Lost World reinvention before they have sure footing with the fans again.
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Thing is, Generations, Mania, and Forces were anniversary games.
Also, they may not be remaking Adventure 1 and 2 because Forces failed to an extent.
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Yeah, I'm aware, but that doesn't mean it isn't nostalgia pandering.
It didn't really flop saleswise, from what I hear. It did ok. And either way, Mania should make up that deficit significantly, which isn't a break Lost World or Boom had back in the day.
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I did check on VGchartz, and so far; Forces did better than Lost World (Wii U) and Boom: ROL.
0.77m for all consoles combined. (Nothing on the PC Version yet)
ROL: 0.31m
Lost World on Wii U: 0.40m
Just thought I'd share that.
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Well ROL and LW sold more than that according to Sega, so I assume Forces did too.
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To be fair though, if we count the 3DS version of Lost World, it still did better than Forces.
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Oh, THAT'S how that number is higher, riiight. The sales data was for both versions of Lost World and for ROL and SC combined. But you also have to keep in mind Lost World is 4 years old, when Forces is barely four months old.
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Yeah. If they announce Mania 2 at that announcement, then we'll know Modern Sonic is dead outside the spin-offs.
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No, Modern Sonic ain't dead. The Boost might be, but Modern Sonic will continue, I'm sure of that. He survived '06, Forces is nothing compared to that.
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I hope so. Thing is, if they change the gameplay style again, it'll just make matters worse. The Mario series isn't safe from this either.
(Ignore the fact I have the default icon. I was trying to change my icon, and DeviantArt glitched up.) -_-
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I expect them to try Adventure again soon. They won't risk another Lost World-type debacle.
What do you mean Mario isn't safe from that? Nintendo knows what they're doing with that franchise.
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Paper Mario and Mario Party have gotten /a lot/ of backlash because they changed the way the series works with their gameplay. I heard someone say they don't know what they're doing with Mario Party, when I call bull on that.
Also, a better comparison would be Unleashed. Not Lost World. I found that Lost World struck a good balance of serious and funny in its story.
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Oh in that sense? I wasn't thinking spin-offs. I was more thinking the actual platformers.
Unleashed's formula was one they had already tried, in the Rush games. Lost World was something entirely new. Besides Unleashed is the best selling game this side of the Dreamcast. Lost World is the selling main series game. Granted, that was more the Wii U's fault than the game's, but it's still something Sega's analysts will consider.
Also, I never talk story when I discuss gameplay styles, so that's...really not an appropriate comment. Also I disagree because I love Unleashed and I don't really like Lost World. That opinion goes for both story and gameplay.
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