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Psyco-The-Frog — Cool action series
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Published: 2015-09-25 09:30:46 +0000 UTC; Views: 4873; Favourites: 52; Downloads: 1
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Since the last time I made a meme concerning these classic cartoons, I've been going back and watching some of them, mainly Biker Mice, and let me tell you, we are truly missing out on Sonic's true potential, and am sure many of you are aware of, whether you agree or not. What made the cartoons even better was despite being made for kids, they could appeal to a general audience, like a lot of toons at the time.For those who don't know the shows listed-
TMNT(Most people should know them): www.youtube.com/watch?v=arKNbR…
Biker Mice From Mars: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdSDuJ…
Street Sharks: www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwj8Qv…
Swat Kats: www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2CAAG…
Whatever Sonic has achieved, for better or worse, stripping the series of anything that made it cool and appealing did more harm then anything a minority on the internet complained about.
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Comments: 30
Well with Project 2017 announced. Maybe all of that childish humor stuff (Although i don't hate it.) can stay in Sonic Boom, giving the main series an opportunity to be a bit more.......mature.
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I'll wait till we actually see that happen.
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Exactly. Sonic's supposed to be edgy and full of awesome humor and action!! Not a fucking old retired man who hangs his lazy ass in a hammock!!!
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It's worth noting that only one of those four series is still going, and it's done that by being constantly rewritten and reimagined into different interpretations. There is no definitive TMNT. THere's the original comics, the 80s cartoon, the first four movies, that godawful live-action show, the 2003 cartoon, the 2007 movie, the 2012 show, the 2013 movie, that weird Japanese one where they turn into giant robot looking things, and probably a boatload of other stuff.
Biker Mice had a brief revival in the early 2000s, but that faded without much fanfare.
If being like those was Sonic's true potential, then Sonic would've died out already, or gone the TMNT route and been reinvented over and over again... Wait... It has been reinvented over and over again.
In most cases, what makes a Sonic continuity a Sonic series is that they take the core essence of the series and reinvent it to suit the target audience they're aiming for. For example, Boom. When Boom was put into production, the Internet was raving about My Little Pony, so they made Boom a plot-lite slice-of-life comedy. If, however, The Hub's biggest success had been Transformers Prime, then we likely would've got a show more like that. If some weird sappy romance drivel had been raking it in, then we would've got a retread of the Penders/Bollers love triangle bollocks from old Archie.
THat's the difference, then, between Sonic and TMNT. TMNT reinvents itself to avoid getting stale and dying a death like the others did. Sonic reinvents itself based on what's popular at the time when it goes into production. This is why Shadow's game has him using guns and fighting aliens. Because Sci-Fi shooters were popular at the time. This is why Sonic 06 was all weird and final-fantasy esque. Because that was popular at the time. That's why Lost World tried to be Mario. That's why they even made an RPG. That's why RIse of Lyric tried to pretend like it was a big open-world adventure.
What Sonic needs is his own identity. He also needs SEGA to realise that when people say "Sonic needs to be like the classics", they mean Sonic 2 and 3&K as well, not just Sonic 1.
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I'm well versed in how TMNT is still going, but the point I wanted to make is what I said in the meme.
Biker Mice new show deserved to go out, it pretty much pulled the same shit Sonic Boom did, except it kept SOME action.
"If being like those was Sonic's true potential, then Sonic would've died out already, or gone the TMNT route and been reinvented over and over again... Wait... It has been reinvented over and over again."
I'm just going to stop here, because I feel that you're starting to distract from the point I was making in the meme just so you can try make some other point.
"If some weird sappy romance drivel had been raking it in, then we would've got a retread of the Penders/Bollers love triangle bollocks from old Archie."
"THat's the difference, then, between Sonic and TMNT. TMNT reinvents itself to avoid getting stale and dying a death like the others did. Sonic reinvents itself based on what's popular at the time when it goes into production."
"What Sonic needs is his own identity."
Yup, I was right.
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Well, looking at the TMNT record, I'm going to take it as "Boom exists because slice-of-life drek was popular, and in a year or two something else will be all the rage and Sonic will be copying that." The one thing that really surprises me is that they haven't started playing up the "superhero team" idea after Marvel started doing its films. Then again, SEGA want to downplay everyone except Sonic and Eggman, so implying that Tails and Knuckles are actually useful won't work.
Sonic needs to have his own identity instead of copying ideas that didn't really work out in the long run.
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"Then again, SEGA want to downplay everyone except Sonic and Eggman, so implying that Tails and Knuckles are actually useful won't work."
In the games and Boom, and if anything, both Sonic and Eggman has also been downplayed, it's just the fact that still get a lot of screen time.
"Sonic needs to have his own identity instead of copying ideas that didn't really work out in the long run. "
Maybe so, but he had. And to explain more in detail about what you said about Sonic failing a long time ago if he was like one of those cartoons aside from TMNT, you should take a look at entertainment in general. A lot of cool stuff is still happening in TV shows and movies, hell, The Muppets just got a new show and it somehow manages to be funnier then any kids show on TV(Largely due to the humor aimed at mature audience, but it manages to do it and not turn into another Spongebob or Family Guy). However, it's when it comes to cartoons that good entertainment is left behind(maybe aside from Korra I assume, and TMNT still manages to be good somehow). This reason being is from the stigma I've read about on several occasions where animation in America is considered a kids thing, this is why only cartoons get complaints about doing real or adult shit, and it's parents that make the complaints and keep pushing their kids to more light hearted entertainment.
Now, granted, many cartoons and shows had their time and gone, and eventually happens to even the best of them. However, Swat Kats is a special case, because some random guy how Hanna-Barbara didn't like how dark it was, despite the fact that the show had many fans, that unknown suite just pulled the plug. Like I said about Biker Mice, it wasn't about being cool and having attitude, that new show just sucked, period, and failed to do what TMNT did at that time, which the Mice had actually did better then them prior. There's also the animated series for Spawn. That was a mature cartoon only aired on HBO, but like I said about the stigma for cartoons in America and parents, the show was panned simply because it was animated and had violence, even if the show wasn't aimed at children in the first place.
Now with Sonic, this is why I said that you were wrong in your assumption, because being a video game series, a mascot at that, is what kept him going, seeing that some games and keep going as long as the company does. Problem being, the games have stopped being the cool games they use to be, and now the sells and barely go over 3 million or flop like Lost World and Boom. Now, the 3D games before Colors, granted, many of them sold around the same numbers, but when you look at market inflation, there's more people around who can play games, and the newer ones are still making the same numbers? The guy who brought this up do so when talking about the Zelda series and criticizing it for it's changes Nintendo made for it, and it's sells were stagnated around 3 mil at that point, and is considered a huge problem, which means worse for Sonic.
Case in point, you say Sonic needs his own identity, but one thing you may not know is that some of Sonic's identity was influenced by TMNT, except since Sonic was a video game series and was the cool mascot, who could've stayed cool, but Sega of Japan just started making bad decisions, constantly, and not only fucked up Sonic, but the entire company, because they were made at Sega of America for doing better then them at console sales, thanks to Tom Kalinske.
This is a lot more complicated then "copying a style that can kill it off now", because that WAS Sonic's style. Also keep in mind when you bring up TMNT, first off, it's 2K series was more mature then the 80's cartoon, and look at the fact that the CGI and recent movie followed suite, and it's the recent CGI TV show that went to a more kiddy route, but actually kept good writing. Even then, the creators new TMNT still had a mature audience, so we ended up with this game, and it was damn good: www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QHXr…
Of course, I'm well aware of the stigma with video games to, that many of them wont do well unless it's a mature title(and even certain titles at that), or a 2D Mario games(which the last one failed to do actually), but that doesn't mean Sonic can't do better, but it's gotta start at getting his identity together, the one you're trying to make points against that's only backed up by taking face value of what's happening on the surface. At that point, the series jsut needs to start appealing to a general audience again, not a vocal minority on the internet who think the know fuck all about everything with nothing to back it up.
One last thing though, Sega of Japan needs knew management, or at least give Sega of America full rights for Sonic rather then milking the series as much as possible without even trying to make it appealing. Before you bring up Boom, keep in mind Sega of Japan started this kiddy shit in the first place because it was their idea to cater to Nintendo fanboys, as stated twice by Izuka. Once around the time of Sonic Unleashed, and another before Lost World, which was so blatant that he didn't even need to say it, but then I'm confused because some people actually tried to deny at.
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Well, Boom's a special case, where they want to work on such things as "Sticks is so funny!" (She's not), "Isn't Knuckles dumb!" (Please, no), "Tails has a girlfriend that looks like his sister!" (Why?), or "Isn't Justin Bieber topical!?" (Not 2011 anymore, guys). I can all but guarantee that the new SoJ game won't break any new ground.
Sure, the Muppets do the same thing, but Street SHarks isn't even a thing anymore. It depends on what that same thing is. SOme concepts always work, other become stale and fade away. Sonic's "totally radical" thing he had in the early 90s became too cheesy to take seriously- I love SA1 more than any of the other games I've played, but I can't not laugh at Sonic's dialogue, so they had to reinvent.
Unfortunately, what happened a lot of the time withSonic was that they tried o force him to be cool, and since coolness is a subjective thing, it often didn't work and he ended up sounding off. FOr example: Ken POntac and Warren Braff write him like some kind of "frat bro". On the plus side, Flynn's been getting better with Sonic's personality since the reboot.
I do like the comic more post-change, but it's still got some major issues. SOme of the emotional stuff still falls flat because of SEGA's iron fist, and some of the choices for games to adapt are confusing. I also can't stand how the series has gained a habit of grinding to a halt so they can ram it into everyone's heads how wonderful and special Amy Rose is, when she still the least interesting character of the bunch. Give me more Sonic, more Sally, more Tails, more Nicole, do something with Gemerl, don't just have another scene of Amy being the bestest thing ever.
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"Sure, the Muppets do the same thing, but Street SHarks isn't even a thing anymore. It depends on what that same thing is. SOme concepts always work, other become stale and fade away. Sonic's "totally radical" thing he had in the early 90s became too cheesy to take seriously- I love SA1 more than any of the other games I've played, but I can't not laugh at Sonic's dialogue, so they had to reinvent."
I wasn't comparing Muppets to the Street Sharks, I was comparing them to monde cartoons we have now. Also, Streets Sharks being a thing is irrelevent to the point. Far as Sonic goes, his attitude is just fine if many and much lamer characteristics in games can work,and Sonic's attitude is a lot more ranged then that anyway. Also, the bit about you laughing at his writing is your own personal issue, so I fail to see why Sega needs to reinvent because of what one or a few people on the internet say, which BTW, already failed.
"Unfortunately, what happened a lot of the time withSonic was that they tried o force him to be cool, and since coolness is a subjective thing, it often didn't work and he ended up sounding off."
Coolness is subjective, but only few people actual reject it, mainly hardcore gamers, and many of their views don't resenate with much of what society thinks.
"FOr example: Ken POntac and Warren Braff write him like some kind of "frat bro". On the plus side, Flynn's been getting better with Sonic's personality since the reboot."
Both sides are fine though, and work better then many other characters we have in games today. Many of which, I mean aren't in M rated games, bu characters in Sonic's range, like Ratchet and Clank or Sly Cooper, but each of them are also cool for their own reasons. If anything, like I said, this is mainly a point made by hardcore games, not socity itself.
Now regardless of the opinions on the comics, and the criticism you have is made more apparent since the change, nothing you said above really proved nothing against I was saying. Especially your comment about the Street Sharks despite the fact that MANY CARTOONS stopped being a thing at this point, as well as more childish and comedic shows, making that point further irrelevent. When it comes down to it, you've only gave me statements based on pointing things out at your conviniance, and ignoring reality, something we have many people on the internet doing constantly to try and push their opinions. Also keep in mind that much of this is fuled for your biased dislike of the original archie comics, and as less combative as others, you still make no real case.
"Give me more Sonic, more Sally, more Tails, more Nicole, do something with Gemerl"
Um sorry, but you of all people shouldn't be making demands of the comics when guys like you only fueled the fire against the series in general. You made your bed, now lie in it.
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Hey, may I use this in my note, I'm doing right now?
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Feel free to man.
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I didn't say anything negative about Nintendo or light hearted content, so I shouldn't get those now. That's really what sets off those nerd rages. XD
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Espeacily since most kids like action. Their idea to "Focus on the kids" makes no sense when you don't make it crazy aciton packed
sure the cartoon might have some younger fans... but that's different AND STILL doesn't help.
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The whole "for kids" thing is a blatant lie once you realize how many of these grown ass clowns blamed children for Sonic's "failures". They were the only ones who wanted this crap, and the only kids who seem to like this direction always happen to be kids THEY are around, yet most kids are off playing GTA and COD online.
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Yeah exactly
like seriously, a little cousin of mine is a fan AoT for fucks sake... AoT!! He's like 12 and he can handle that shit! Having sonic have more htan one emotion isn't gunna hurt anybody
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TMNT 2003 is cool I also like the 2012 version, but the 1989 version is already too silly for me and has too little action.
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Where did this Sonic go and what pinhead thought all Sonic needed is to pander to a younger crowd of people in the most blatant ways ever.
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A bunch of fanboys that cried over Shadow the hedgehog and 06.
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Was Shadow the hedgehog seriously so dark and edgy for those guys XD
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Nintendo fanboys sort of hate anything those two words can be applied to. You should also know that this has been apparent even during the time Shadow came out, Nintendo fanboys being the main group of gamers(even regular Nintendo fans hate them at this point), bashing other games back then like GTA, Max Payne, Halo, and still doing so no by forcing some false since of Nintendo games somehow being better then anything else, as if all other games are broken. If their an M rated title, they full on attack them. Shadow just happened to be a game that was going for those audiences, and that's why Nintendo fanboys got pissed off.
If you're wondering where actual Sonic and Sega fans were: The real Sonic fans weren't as vocal, sense, you know, most companies would par the course and you would just have to accept it or leave, so Sonic fans didn't really have to say much. General Sega fans left after the Dreamcast died and are mainly not associated with Sonic fans we have now, and most likely playing other consoles.
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That's a good way of putting it I'm a big Nintendo fan but I'm a fan of the GTA games. Nintendo games are good......damn good but not all are pieces of diamonds waiting to be found and that mentality is why fans of Nintendo (the ones we're talking about specifically) get so much flak from other circles of the gaming community.
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No you're to kind, it's the people who cried out in angry over SA2 being to "dark" and "edgy" for a kids game.
AKA the people who want this over this
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Those are the same people, plus, that only became an issue for those clowns when Shadow came out because they got their feelings hurt over a gun. At the same time though, there weren't any complaints at all about SA2 until it was ported to the gamecube according to me sources. It seems to fit because some of the biggest complainers I've seen were Nintendo fanboys of some sort, mixed in with some anime and MLP fanboys. Much of the gaming community kinda turned their back on Sonic, but compared to the ones I just mentioned, they just stick to their own shit rather then fight against the spirit of the franchise, and Sonic actually fits the contents of other games then Nintendo.
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YES!!!! Sega should be listening to what you have to say!
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Yes, this is what makes the series awesome! And you're not "too old" for that stuff!
Being a stupid show pandering to juvenile jokes and with less engaging moments and harsh stuff and not-so-threatening foes, is NOT what made Sonic the great series it was supposed to be.
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