HOME | DD

Psyco-The-Frog In reply to Rainbowser [2017-10-21 20:05:13 +0000 UTC]

You do make a good point when talking about both spectrum of the argument, however, not caring what is or isn't for kids has no relevance here. I've said this a few times, I own Skylanders, apparently I'm not against playing games meant for kids, I just don't like it when they are kiddy and barely have anything of interest. Mario proves this as his games had been selling less and less over the years until those 2D games, apparently just being happy and colorful doesn't always work. People are going to want more then that. You can easily see what I meant if you apply this argument to a past meme I made about gameplay, where the other 4 examples I used were colorful platformers, but offered more then just that on the surface.


The main issue is while the issue can be skewed at times, like an extreme case where World of Warcraft is considered by some as kiddy for being colorful when it's obviously not, it doesn't Nintendo's case that their main IPs are kid oriented then most E rated, or KtoA(Kids to adult) rated games from back in the day, like Sparkers, Earthworm Jim, and again, Crash bandcoot. To simplify it, people want games that kick ass, and Sonic was the main series that kicked ass WHILE being family friendly but not overly childish, much like TMNT, Ratchet and Clank, and Sly Cooper.

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

Rainbowser In reply to Psyco-The-Frog [2017-10-21 22:17:42 +0000 UTC]

I said that I personally don't care what is labeled for kids and what isn't, I just have a problem with "kids entertainment" being seen as a lesser form of entertainment. This mentality can be seen in the fandom, but also in the creators of the recent Sonic games which DOES hold quite a lot of relevance in this issue. Going overly kiddy because "it's for kids" is part of the same problem. And if we're going to be totally honest here: Unless Sonic has gore, sex and severe swearing in it, it will always be labeled as "kids entertainment" by the majority of people. It's another mentality that ties into the one I mentioned before: "If it's not unsuitable for kids, it's for kids." This is also where the "blu cartewn hegehog" argument fits in. In the end, arguing whether something is for kids or not is usually pointless as there are many inbetweens of enjoyment that are often painted as black and white in this kind of argument. Trust me, I want Sonic to kick ass again as much as you do, but it's the disease you have to fight, not the symptoms.

Mario didn't really start to go downhill in terms of sales until the late 3DS/WiiU era, but the signs that it would happen eventually were there as early as the early Wii era. New Super Mario Bros on the DS was a good game, it did all the things you'd expect from a 2D Mario game but completely revamped into a modern style with a few special extras added. It's no Rayman Legends or Tropical Freeze, but it was good for what it was. Then, they did pretty much the same thing again on the Wii, but they brought back the Koopalings and added a multiplayer. Okay, the Koopalings returning was pretty cool, but then they came back again in the 3DS version NSMB2 which only had the coin gimmick that didn't really do anything. That's when people started to get bored. No wonder NSMBU and it's Luigi-themed sister game NSLU(yes, that was the entire gimmick of the game, NSMBU except with Luigi who already was in the original game) doing the same thing AGAIN weren't enough to make people buy a WiiU. Not to mention that the 3D Mario games during that time were ALSO pretty much 2D Mario games except 3D. They weren't horrible games and could work as a parallel, not replacement, to the real 3D Mario series, but they definitely came out during the wrong era when people were starting to be fed up with the classic Mario shtick. AND they added this kind of style to the RPGs AS WELL, so not even the games you previously could always rely on for being fresh and funny were much of an alternative. This wasn't about being happy and colorful though, it was about being stale and repetitive. Which can happen with any concept if the developers think the minimum will satisfy the customers and yes, it will turn people off sooner or later. And apparently through some wonderous witchcraft, Nintendo did learn their lesson as the Switch games are targeting an older, more general audience. No more happy families with little kids in the commercials, they showed their actual audience: Young adults who love videogames. Odyssey has brought back a hype Mario hasn't experienced since Super Mario 64 and maybe Galaxy if you're being really nice. Why? Because it's the grand and glamourous Mario game people had always dreamed about, but were certain they would never get because of Nintendo being, well, Nintendo the hyper kid friendly niche company who always plays it safe and does the same concepts over and over again instead of going off the rails with what they can do. They are working at the matter at hand, they got the hang of where they went wrong with the WiiU and the games around that era and I really appreciate that. Just look at any of the Super Mario Odyssey trailers and you'll see a game brimming with confidence, saying "Here I am! I am what you've always wanted and more! You are going to buy me because you can do all these awesome things once you put me into that Nintendo Switch you obviously bought so you can play me!"

And this is the kind of confidence I miss in Sonic. It's as ironic as can be, but it's true. How can it be that Mario, the franchise that is known for doing the same thing over and over again, in the game's own words goes "off the rails" while Sonic still tries to play it safe by playing the nostalgia card for the millionth time? How can I buy a game with a clear conscience that's not 100% confident in doing its own thing? Now don't get me wrong, Forces looks a million times better than anything we've had in the past seven years, but it won't be the game that brings the franchise back to health like people like to claim Colors did. It's most likely just going to be the first step in either Sonic's recovery or ultimate demise. What I do hope for however is the Shadow DLC they're currently selling with the preorders to become a hit. It might just give them the confidence boost they need to have Shadow replace Classic Sonic in the next installment. And then have other characters return gradually as playables. They'll need all the confidence they can get to turn away from reusing Classic Sonic and Green Hill Zone over and over again and focus on the action, the characters and the universe again, the things that made Sonic interesting and unique in the first place. I can obviously only speak for myself here, but that's what I'm asking Sonic to be. Many games can give me fun gameplay, but it's only those rare ones that can actually get me invested. And this is really hard to do with gameplay only(pretty much impossible), so giving me a good story and good characters is going to be the better bet here.

👍: 1 ⏩: 1

asia-catdog-blue In reply to Rainbowser [2017-11-02 06:11:40 +0000 UTC]

I still say Nintendo needs a hard reboot. 

They need to start over from the beginning and try again... for the better!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Rainbowser In reply to asia-catdog-blue [2017-11-05 18:40:38 +0000 UTC]

Mario actually seems to be rebooting in a way with Odyssey. Pauline returned completely rebooted for example and Mario himself officially is not a plumber anymore and now makes money by partaking in the sports events from Mario Kart, Mario&Sonic, etc. So I guess he's becoming more "radical"... Kind of... I don't quite now what to make of it yet. I'm not sure though if him being a plumber was retconned or if he just gave up the job in-universe. I hope for the latter as he now pretty much is Peach's personal bodyguard, but there were multiple occasions where him and Luigi being plumbers was acknowledged and even relevant to the plot, so saying it never was that way in-universe makes no sense.

👍: 1 ⏩: 0