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Rasa88 — Dragon Anatomy Draft
Published: 2012-11-18 17:58:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 8578; Favourites: 304; Downloads: 144
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Please download for full size image~Sorry for all of the anatomy spam, I just like to run my drafts through DA first to see if anything needs changing or tweaking.
This is my final draft for the skeleton unless anything major comes along. The upper image is obviously the skeletal version, the smaller inserts are the distortion taken by the forelimb supracoracoid and the sternum. The flight sternum is hinged to the forelimb sternum which allows it to articulate to allow air intake. The wing arm is sitting slightly out of socket, I must have merged the separate layers without aligning them properly.
Some re-hashing from my previous posts:
While my dragons have six limbs they cannot, and do not, run. This is due to the fused vertebra of the shoulder called the Notarium. The limbs are for limited ground movement such as entering and exiting nesting spots. The limbs are weight baring only and are not used to manipulate objects. As for the foreleg girdle the use of the legs really plays a part. The limited movement is directly effected by the scapular attachment which hinges it to the coracoid and wing scapular in the same way a birds rib segments work. The limited movement allows this attachment to be achieved.
During flight the tail would be adjusted at varying degrees and speeds to assist turning by angling the tail fan. I actually need to move the sail down some, its too close to the pelvis.
Thats about it really, sorry its so messy but thank you for looking!
Vhavundr Dragon anatomy concepts belong and are copyrighted to myself: ~Rasa88
Orginal Draft
Secondary Draft
An artist to use the sail tail before me: ~Hyrotrioskjan - very much worth a visit!
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Comments: 42
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I imagine it would look very different, this was an exercise in 6 limbed dragons and their anatomy ;D
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As much as I enjoy horse/lion-like dragons, if dragons really existed as being flight-capable six limbed animals, they would be far more likely to resemble your illustration.
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I love this. And I love the tail fan idea.
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OMG YOU AND HYROTRIOSKJAN WORKED TOGETHER??
I LOVE YOU!!
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I totally agree with you about quadruped dragons not being able to run, mine never have been able to neither, waayy too much breastbone for that sort of movement XD Again, great work, your the best at this type of stuff EVER!
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although I can't even pretend to know as much about anatomy as you do, your studies are extremely useful. Please keep posting!
Also, do you have one source where you are getting all this information, such as a handy book or two? I'd love to know if you are~
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Thank you and I'm very glad they are!
I trawl the internet for far too long before hand (many wasted hours) reading up and gathering reference images, I do have two books but they're not great, The Princeton Field Guide to Dinosaurs by Gregory S. Paul and Manual of Ornithology: Avian Structure and Function. The first has good but tiny muscle illustrations and the second is a little hit and miss in places, a lot of the images don't look properly referenced haha! Still good to have to hand!
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Yeah, this is the fourth time I've heard about the Manual of Ornithology, so I think I'll pick that one up for Christmas :] I haven't heard of the other one, but I'll check it out while I'm at it.
Although my digging hasn't been as extensive as it could be (probably not more than 20 hours total), I've never had much luck with the internet regarding dinosaur anatomy. It always seems hit and miss with quality, and the reliability of the source is always dubious. I might trawl the science library at my college though, I bet they have some nice resources :3
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So I'm taking an ancient life class and we've been learning a lot about animal builds and I'm beginning to finally understand all this anatomy craziness which is really impressive and hopefully I'll be able to pull this stuff off someday. I don't know if you want critique but since this is a draft I'll just go ahead anyway since you're still tweaking things :0 Correct me if I'm wrong though cause I don't know every bone function xD but you said that the dragons are incapable of running so that means a lot of things will come into play and this is what I see(which again, I may be wrong)
I think the body style you have given your dragons look as if they were built to run, you may want to go back a few steps if you want them to be as realistically believable as possible or find another way to make the wings work. You gave them a body sort of like a horse- a deep chest for large lungs for running(unless the dragon cannot soar and must constantly be flapping to stay up) and the long slender legs are very thin, slower moving animals are closer to the ground+heavier/thicker so there would be no reason for them to have running legs, also more weight is getting put on the poor front legs which looks exhausting to hold the weight-
[link] [link]
[link] (Rhinoceros_unicornis)1_-_Relic38.jpg (close to the ground, fairly straight legs)
Then the tail might not have to be as flexible and as thin as it looks, because it's mainly for balance. When you look at Cretaceous pterosaurs they have very short and stiffer tails while the earliest had long tails, due to they were still evolving, bird tails are very stiff and wider to actually help with flight, the dragons very thin tail doesn't look like it'd be able to handle strong winds during flight.
asdfgh hopefully I made some sense if any at all D:
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Ok, I want to be on the class you're on because that sounds awesome : | British schools have the most boring classes compared to the American ones I've been hearing about.
I'm not sure where exactly you're coming from because you seem to be looking at a wide selection of animals rather than drawing from the relevant ones. When I create a creature I try to group up muscle and bones groups, so I don't have horse+cow+dog+bird for example. This dragon draws from Archosaurs or as close as I can possibly get them.
They cannot run because all flying creatures have some form of fusion in the vertebra, in this guy it would be the Notarium. So running is impossible despite what the shape of the dragon -looks like- it can do.
As the dragon is primarily a flying creature it has thin, but sturdy legs, like a flying creature. Its a common problem I face when people comment regarding leg thickness. Thin legs does not mean weak legs. An Ostrich can carry the weight of a grown man despite the thickness of its legs. The foreleg cavity would probably house an enlarged air sac (which would come later should I decide to do an organ map of these guys /lazy) not to mention that the bones themselves would be light due to their structure.
Its actually not for balance, that is more for bipedal dinosaurs, the tail would be turned left and right during flight to direct the fin - the airflow would carry the tail tip which has a flattened shade to keep it level. The tail itself is also tapered on each side to help it 'knife' through the air. So the trailing tail end doesn't need to be very thick. Theres a certain line to have to draw when designing dragons, if I were to go by Cretaceous pterosaurs inch for inch I wouldn't have a long tail typically seen on dragons. That's a design choice I made and made sure to allow the tail to work in unison with my design.
I hope that makes sense and explains a few things!
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Haha I literally am taking the class too just cause I need like 4 sciences in my art major and thought it would be fun and help with creature design rofl
Yeah sorry, I like reread it and didn't think I made much sense either >.< I think what I'm getting at is even though the animals aren't in the same category, when there's a similarity, there becomes a pattern in body builds and trying to compare modern things to prehistoric to see what works best. I don't know if an ostrich is the best example because they're bipedal and their bodies are very compact, short and they're also flightless, think of when a dragon lands, that's a lot of force coming from both directions, they have completely different body types. Giraffes have long thin legs but their bodies are also very short to support the weight. I have some notes on the hip structure from class on bipedal and quads but I wish I understood it better but the ischium should explain a lot which I guess would support the leg thing-[link] ughh now I'm getting lost in my own research xD
I think I was actually talking to someone about that there really isn't much you can do with prexisting mythical creatures like dragons. Western/ Eastern dragons have very specific builds. I know some people put wide rudders? on dragons for flight, but yeah I totally know what you mean >.< maybe dragons were still evolving lmao
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Lmao well that's using your head!
I think groups are very important for this sort of thing as something that applies to another group the same shape will not apply directly to the first.
The Ostrich was simply an example to show that slender legs are still powerful/sturdy, I wouldn't use anything of an Ostrich for a creature such as a dragon. It guess it all depends on how you envision my dragon landing. Our ideas may be very different from each others and you may be making assumptions regarding landing techniques.
I don't think the creature you linked really applies, the forelimbs I've used are actually from weight baring dinosaurs (I cant remember the name of the group) which were a lot heavier in the midriff as they were herbivores. So I cant see much of a problem overall. If you're talking about the rear legs, I had to make a few adaptations to accommodate the prepubis. If they're needed or not or effect the motion of the limbs I wont know until I get my hands on some good reference material.
I did have rudders on my dragons previously but removed them in favour of the sail. I have bird tails (supported by a pygostyle, many people just slap them on without the muscle attachments or any thought behind them) on my smaller feathered dragons. Those dragons are also avian based while my membranous dragons are pterosaur based.
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ughhh I know, I always assume damn it! Now my brain hurts, thanks Rasa :< lol
Saurisichian...orthischian I don't even know- I'm a bad note taker xD Theraspids were like the weird doggy reptile...
THERE WAS THIS BOOK but I can't remember the same, I need to ask this girl in my class that borrowed from our college library, it literally had everythinggg even like math equations and ratios to determine how fast the dino could move or strength.. it's crazy and it has lots of pictures cause I'm gonna get it myself as soon as I find out and I'll let you know what it's called if I ever do!
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Don't worry, mine does too! Also wth we've made mini text walls!
That's the one, the second; Orthischian. Please do! I'm just looking for a good Pterosaur muscle/skeleton reference book, harder than you'd think to come by. Also not alot of books what their pages published online so I cant get a good idea of whats in them : |
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Seeing the front limb muscles really makes me believe that this creature could exist! The design just flows together so well.
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I'm very glad, thank you beb!
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Don't they have a furcula? Or am I misinterpreting things?
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May I ask why they don't? It's just that I learned that the furcula is important for birdflight. I'm just curious :3
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I'm not sure of the technical reason but it will be something to do with the flight differences, birds have both the upstroke and down stoke muscles attached to the keel/sternum while Pterosaurs only have the down stroke muscle attached.
Most of the muscle mass and power is on the back of a pterosaur. The upstroke muscle sits on the back rather than the loop and pully system a bird has. I think the Supracoracoideus attaches ahead of the pectorals too which means they go straight from A to B while a bird has the Furcula to strut their pectorals otherwise the mass would be greatly reduced (which is why I preach the Furcula to most anatomy artists looking to base their dragons off of birds.)
I think anyway!
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Oh I didn't see you already answered that, sorry.
Oh man I have a hard time understanding what you're telling me since english isn't my native tongue but I think I get it now. It's fascinating how much thought you put into all of this. I'd like to do that too but it gets to exhausting over time and forces my dragons into looks that I don't really like so I'm just like meeeh artistic freedom xD
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Its alright, I took ages to reply!
Oh sorry! I'd have posted up the images I referenced if my Imageshack wasn't being such an idiot but I'm glad it mostly makes sense now. Haha, I find it relaxing, as odd as it is. Oh man, I know that feeling, just go with what makes you happy and fit the anatomy into it ; p
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They're funny creatures, my smaller feathered dragons will still have a Furcula as they'd be build like a bird but the big bads like Rasa wont c:
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So how do they do without the furcula? I learned that the furcula is there for stability. Does some other structure adopt the function?
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Very nice 
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Thank you! Ooooh that's where it came from! I hope you don't mind, I definitely recognise your Indoraptor.
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I don't mind, sails like this are inventions of nature
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Thank you very much, I'm glad you think so!
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I am forever welcome. :3
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I very enjoy your accuracy in those anatomy tables. Great job!
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Thank you very much! I'm glad you like it!
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you are welcome. I totally enjoy this kind of art, a scientific approach to fantasy creatures is simply ideal to me
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