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Leviathantamer In reply to ??? [2013-12-09 04:33:13 +0000 UTC]

Well the Zerg are only as numerous as how many planets you give them. Almost like the Flood except for the fact that the flood can make breeding grounds out of ships. (I'll just merge these two discussions so there's less space) Also the point that I was bringing up with the temperatures is simple. At those degrees a Flood's body will freeze to the point where they can't move a single cell. Or they will burn up so quickly that no flesh is left. The spores would be incinerated or frozen at this point so quickly that they don't have a chance to change the atmosphere. With Neural Physics they might be able to.

That makes things much clearer. Neural Physics isn't an ability but a teaching. In that case the Zerg can't match them in raw power. However the Protoss are able to match this in that the Nerazim or Dark Templars can actually manipulate the "void" of space to their will. Archons are made of raw uncontrollable Psionic energy that "Burns with the power of a star". They have much shorter lives but have tremendous strength... No more about Protoss this is about the Zerg *smacks self*

Now this one will deal with the fact of the Anti-Virus. Both the Zerg and the Flood are equals in terms of Biological Manipulation. The Anti-Virus here is actually incredibly simple. The Flood Cell has three jobs. Digest, Examine, Rewrite. While this may take less than a second for both sides to accomplish. The Zerg Hyper Virus (The regular virus makes proper Zerg but takes longer while the Hyper one is sloppy and makes the Infested Terrans) has only one job. Digest on contact. This means that the Zerg cells if you could even call them that could destroy Flood Cells faster than they could have a chance to infect, especially if they're engineered for this purpose. If you spray that it could effectively remove the Flood from an ecosystem... and take the ecosystem with it. Abathur could think this through and quickly apply it to almost all the Zerg strains making them Anti-Flood.

On the idea of converting planets. I was only talking about a single point. If the creep started from a single hive which is about an acre squared it would take a week. Apply that to about 3 hives on every continent and the place is covered within the hour. The only downside about the Creep is that it's a living organism as well. If Abathur can apply the Anti-Flood cells to the Creep than that issue is solved.

Well a grounded Flood ship is better than a flying one that has weapons. The Zerg are VERY good at eliminating ground forces.

I did not know that about the Gravemind. That changes things completely. I also remember looking at the article of Flood within Halo Nation and reading that the Precursors who were seeking revenge on the Forerunners had turned themselves into the Flood. Anyway in a their conversation I have next to no doubt that the Overmind would lose. While he wouldn't be able to digest his intelligence until he's physically infected. The Gravemind would be able to repel the Overmind, but not control him. The reason that the Overmind died wasn't solely because of Kerrigan. It was because the Overmind was arrogant. He believed that he could out smart anything that tried to kill him. The Gravemind is almost a computer. All it would take for the Overmind to be repelled is to find a flaw in his logic, which may take hours as he was still nearly as smart as The Gravemind in spite of its collective intelligence.

Kerrigan. Yeah he'd definitely require to infect her before consuming her. He'd have one helluva time doing that though.

Actually I'd suggest rechecking Halopedia. The Tank Form has Bony Plates on it's arms that are invulnerable to damage of any kind. The Juggernaut Form has tentacles that hit hard. The Tank Form is definitely vulnerable to five enemies attacking at all sides. Their head is just a weak point while the entire body is still vulnerable bar the arms.

Also I remember how you said that the Zerg could be assimilated. The Mgalekolo can't be assimilated either, that's because their individual bodies are only animals separately. Thus if the Flood were to consume a Zerg that isn't a Queen or a Hivemind, they wouldn't get any intelligence from it. So the Zerg alone couldn't make a Gravemind of any kind.

However we've been talking about how they would confront each other at full strength. What if they were both put on the same planet and started with just the bare minimum? A single Flood Beginner (Infection Form?) and a Single Larva. Placed on exact opposites sides of the planet. My bet would be on the Zerg due to the fact that they could build an effective base within thirty minutes to an hour and start pumping out Zerglings and Hydralisks. Later they would have to use resources to copy the Anti-Flood from the Hive Mind DNA research (presuming that they have that) If not then they could make Banelings and strategically splash the areas with acid to prevent further Flood infections.

The main deciding factor would be how strong they are from the get-go. The Flood are immeasurably strong at their strongest and could out do the Swarm. However at the beginning the Zerg are way stronger as nearly all Flood Pure Forms can be taken down by the Zerg in the beginning. They would have a hard time truly infecting the Zerg to get some biomass on their side to make the stronger ones like Juggernaut and Tank which could be cut down by Hydralisks. Without ships or infected Hydralisks (which would be hard to get) they couldn't shoot down Mutalisks. The Spine Crawlers could halt any of the Juggernauts or Tanks while Hydralisks and Zerglings help hold the lines.

This is how I'm seeing the two sides in power tropes. The Flood are only as strong as what they can infect, and if something halts them in early stages then they're weak. The Zerg on the other hand are soldiers from the start. If the Soldier can hold of the infection than the infection is weak. If the Soldier gets infected than the infection gets stronger. However this soldier can definitely hold off the infection.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Leviathantamer [2013-12-09 12:23:17 +0000 UTC]

Yeah basically. A Breeding ground is an understatement. I believe I forgot to mention how Flood hives work so I'll tell you now. So after the Flood find a good defendable location they begin gathering bodies and organisms to that location. They are used for food and biomass. Quickly after Growth Pods begin growing on surfaces. It's believed that they are made by amassing Flood Cells to make a tumor. These pods grow to large fleshy sacks and act like Creep Tumors, they spread more flesh like material and more Flesh sacks. Infection eggs can grow on it, lessening the need of hosts. The flesh sack and biomass can be used to make Pure Forms(there Millions of different types, not just Tanks, stockers, rangers, and Juggernauts. There are flying types, small ground types, Hulking types, etc.) At this point they will have made a Proto-Gravemind or a full Gravemind. They will no longer have a dependence on other life but the Gravemind's thirst for more knowledge and the consumption of all life continues the cycle. Depending on the size this could take an hour for something like a frigate and a Day for something like a planet. Infested ships in a few hours can become giant Flesh Pods with tentacles, millions of Flood Dispersal Pods, and trillions of Flood Spores flying around the surface, all of these can be rapidly grown. Ok The flood can survive and infest in outer space. They can transform fully destroyed ships into fully functional flood ships without being in an atmosphere. The point that Flood begin taking any real damage from heat is after 1500 F. Char only Peaks at 1470 F.

Well it's more like a realization. When the flood get to a high enough thought process they unlock the capability to comprehend it. No single being could ever do this. It allows them to manipulate the fabric of space and time. They could virtually do any thing. The Great part is that because the Gravemind keeps the memories of past Graveminds, he knows this. This is one of the possible reasons he Thirsts for knowledge.

Won't work the Virus is to weak. A Single Doctor was able to make a cure and others were able to cure infested Terrans as well. Not to mention the fact the Protoss are immune. Not everything can be controlled by infection forms but all organic cells can be converted in to Flood Cells. The Forerunners Tried for centuries to find a cure and was never able to.

Yeah and the infested ship that crashed on earth would have converted the planet in about a day. In Halo CE they had over run the Ring and began converting everything and building a Gravemind in a few hours. They only started with a few specimens of spores. Again the anti Flood virus won't work.

Not Really. If your on the ground your screwed. If your in they air you'll have an infested planet to deal with soon and what ever comes with it.

Well he has Key minds. A Key Mind possessed processing power and strategic skill that easily matched that of a Metarch-level Ancilla, such as Mendicant Bias and Offensive Bias.

Actually I think the Gravemind would want her alive. To consume her mind and power. The body would be used to make Pure forms more durable and powerful.

5 Zerg would do it. I say more on the Juggernaut as it's also very mobile and stupid strong. They were made to tare apart the Enforcer sentinels with ease.

Mgalekgolo can't be controlled by an Infection form. This is because the Mgalekgolo is hundreds of small worm like beings grouped together. However the Lekgolo can be converted to Flood cells and use for Pure forms or other things.
The only intelligence the Flood combat forms need is how to fight... The Zerg know how to do that...

Ok. So there both on a planet with animal life? Both of them need biomass to grow. Based on SC 2 it takes a while before the larva is very formidable.
The Infection form would infect one of the near by creatures. Begin collecting bodies to form a Gravemind. The Host and the body's will produce spores to convert the atmosphere and more animal into flood. More Flood bring Corpses or liveing creatures. Soon they have a full Proto-Gravemind and the Starting of a Hive. Based on Halo CE this wouldn't take very long. Soon it will be spewing out Infection forms, Spores, and Pure Forms of all shapes and Sizes. Again the anti-virus want work. Banelings wouldn't be enough you would need to glass or vaporize the place the flood have been. I would go as far as destroying the planet... "One single flood spore can Destroy a species"

Go watch Halo Legends Origins on YouTube. And look at all the Pure forms. Then come back and tell me they are all trumped by the Zerg's forces.

I disagree. The Flood are victorious in both.
Remember Chief was only able to stop the Flood by destroying the world they were on or Firing the ring. The Zerg cant do this.

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Leviathantamer In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-12-09 15:12:25 +0000 UTC]

The virus that you're talking about was a different strain. That one was made by Infestors to make converting the planet easier. It's job was Digest, Examine, Rewrite. However as I said, it was sloppy. No one, not even the Flood can work DNA like Abathur can. Sure they can understand DNA more than Abathur when they have a Gravemind, but have you ever seen a Flood specimen who's job was solely to make the Flood DNA as efficient as possible? They only convert things into the same Flood DNA and sort of Copy'n Paste for Pure Forms. Abathur is a master at what he can do. So if he is the one to write the Virus it'll become more efficient than any other Anti-Flood technique. Of this I'm sure. All it would take is one sample. If you think that one sample would be able to infect him. He's dealt with this kind of stuff before. It'll go straight into an acid that rips apart the cells and leaves the DNA intact. Flood Cells may be good at infecting, but the DNA is still JUST chemicals. So all they have to do is win one battle with a Flood Form of any kind and take something like a skin cell.

So it's not so much of a Cure but merely a cell that can get rid of others faster than anything else. The Forerunners were looking for ways to reverse the effects or halt the effects, they weren't looking for a way to kill it. They already had weapons for that.

Actually on both Halopedia and Halo Nation it states that the Flood Cells can survive in temperatures ranging from -75 to +53 degrees Celsius. This roughly converts to -103 to 127.4 degrees Fahrenheit. Please remember to check your sources. Granted I have had to double check but most of that was due to the fact that I never knew it in the first place. This means that Char on a good day, comes close to boiling them alive. Char doesn't have a lot of good days. Not to mention even in all of the Flood Manipulation of the Atmosphere, I doubt that even they can stop a Volcano from blowing. If they try to block it, it'll eventually reach popping point and the Lava will burn right through them. While they could infest most of Char for about a week, the Volcanoes and Lava Floes will eventually make the planet suicide to live there.

Actually that's a bit of false information. What the Zerg actually need are materials. Of any kind. This could be the rocks underneath their feet to the trees nearby. This is one of the very few times where they mold the environment themselves. Besides forming a Gravemind would actually be really tough on a planet like this. They could do it on the Halo because two armies of sentient beings were on it. All of these only have the basics they need to survive. I'm guessing it'll take at least a day to start forming something that resembles a Proto-Gravemind. Also about Banelings, I'm guessing that they'd actually be pretty effective. If the Flood try to dig in roots to survive the swarm. A Roach or a Nydus Worm can easily dig these up. All the life that would be left after a systematical Baneling Treatment would be bacteria.

Also the thing about the Creep taking a week to cover a planet. That's a week if the Creep is by itself. The hour was if the Zerg dropped in. It would take about a day for the Zerg to completely cover a planet starting from one hatchery with next to no resistance. The Zerg have made itself clear that no matter where they are, they're the top predators. That and it takes massive amounts of damage to destroy a Zerg Cocoon. The Larvae themselves while not the best fighters, they are made to at least be able to hold themselves against local predators. So if they are attacked in the first moments they arrive, they'll still make a hatchery no matter what.

Then again what are the real pros and cons of an Infection Form... it's weak, horribly weak. The only real power it has is in it's tentacles. What if the first thing it comes across is a predator. I doubt that the predator would eat it, it'd see it as a threat. Kill the threat and move on. Now you have spores that can change the environment in a day or two. In just an hour the Zerg already have a base up and running. Within 12 hours they'll have set up more hives and taken over their side of the world. Within 18 hours they'll probably have found the infection site and met some resistance. Then comes the Banelings.

Also if the Spores alone could infect people, than why is it that when a Jackal (only ones low enough to the ground to inhale the spores) kills an Infection Form they don't turn. I think I actually know the answer to this one. The Spores are too few. The amount of Spores that are inhaled are almost immediately overwhelmed by the immune system. An Infection Form spews in several million cells. You have about 50 at best in one spore. way to few.

The reason that I'm saying this is simple, have you ever seen an Infection Form take on something by itself. Most likely. However they always fail. That's because they rely on numbers or stealth. A Predator survives because it's either the strongest thing here, or it knows how to hide. It won't be able to sneak up on a predator and the prey is likely going to run away at the first sight or sound. Not to mention the Infector Form is only relying on its basic instincts to infect because it's not coordinated.

Now say it does manage to catch something. Most likely prey as the Predators are too much for a single Infection Form. It would have to work its way into the higher parts of the food chain to gather sufficient amounts of bodies. This will delay it for even longer. While it's feasible that it could gather enough Biomass for a Proto-Gravemind in a day, it won't last long. If they decide to make a tumor instead it won't do them any good either. They may have just gotten themselves a bit more ground but it won't work.

That's what you forgot about because the Flood are so genetically powerful. You forgot about the next step after Genetics. Because Genetics alone won't win a fight. The Food Chain. In all honesty only a combat form could stand a chance against the local wildlife. However we're starting with the basics. I think that you also got the facts a bit wrong unless the Infection Form is technically a Combat Form. A Combat Form is made when something becomes infected by the Flood.

*snaps fingers* Now I know what this battle really is. I was wrong about it being a fight between a soldier and a virus. It's a fight between something that shapes itself to the environment, and something that shapes itself through the environment. The Flood don't really change, The Zerg do.

If I left out a part of the discussion that's because I agreed with you on that and there's no further need to continue on that.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Leviathantamer [2013-12-10 03:39:33 +0000 UTC]

No because the Flood is one there is no separate mind. Abathur is good I won't deny that but the Gravemind has the knowledge from before there was time. And because of the memories of past Graveminds, as soon as he has the brain power to comprehend the memories, well at that point your dealing with some very scary. Here's the problem with your anti-virus. Flood cells are able to mirror any cell, this is why our immune system won't attack the cell... Not that our immune system could kill flood cells... Also the cells are controlled by the Gravemind and he can manipulate them in any way he wants. One of the ways he has used this is when he made ancient Human and Forerunners believe that a cure was made when in reality it was just the Gravemind controlling the infection so the Forerunners would have a reason not to kill all the humans. In other word the Gravemind can use flood cell strategically. On no no no no. You would never want to put flood cells or flood DNA near large amounts of biomass. Remember that the Gravemind is the Flood even at a cellular level. He could easily place flood cell or flood DNA and make in inert till just the right time. 
Copy and Paste is a way you could put it. The difference is that each time The Cell is pasted it learns of the area it's pasted in. This is how it's able to mirror any cell. Apparently the Flood super cell was based on the creature the Thing from the Movie The Thing....

Yeah but that's only helping the Flood super cell. As soon as the Flood cell come in contact with the anti-virus cells it's begging mirroring them. The Flood Cells well become indistinguishable from the Anti-virus Cells. 

On a good day the flood will be warm not boiling. 
The Flood crashing the the Planet is all that is needed to begin changing the atmosphere. You don't seem to understand when the Flood infest a planet they kill it. I was wrong about one thing. The Growth Pods are made from Flood Spores. If the area does not have enough biomass to support a Flood Growth Pod, the spore will spread over floors and walls until it covers as much as it can. When this flesh stuff spread over an area it beings to sweat a white liquid. This Liquid seeps in to the ground and not only infests other areas but it cools or warms the area to better suit the Flood. If a large portion of the planet is infested then the Planet will either Cool down or worm up.

No you said Zerg Larva. In Starcraft 2 Heart Of The Swarm they showed us how a Larva alone grows. It eats Boimass and grows in to a Queen. Then she cam birth Zerg creatures.

The Flood in Halo CE started as a few Flood Spores... They took over the ring in Hours.

Its fast and Small. Hard to see and when it leaps at you it's already to late. It can take weaker creatures or strong ones. the true trump card is that it not only take control of the body but it makes it Fast, Stronger, and more resilient. A weaker creature could become the top predator.  

Actually they can. In Halo Wars Spores were almost the number one reason people got infected. In halo 3 The Prophet of Truth infected by Spores. The reason we don't see infected Jackals their bodies are so small and weak that they are better used for biomass. However Jackals, grunts, and most everyone could turn in to a Combat form. No for the most part our immune system wouldn't even know we were infected with the Flood Super Cell abilities. 

Yes Basic instincts. Your alone, you need to infest, you are small, you are fast, and your are weak.

I'm not sure i follow.

I don't think in understand your analogy.

That's Fine.

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Leviathantamer In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-12-10 05:47:46 +0000 UTC]

Then explain how on Halopedia AND Halo Nation it states this in Neurological (Halopedia) Tactics (Halo Nation) "If the Flood have amassed enough sentient hosts to form a Gravemind, then their behaviour becomes far more coordinated" This means that the Gravemind may be able to remember all the things the cell has encountered but they need Sentient Hosts in order to make a Gravemind. Until then they're about as coordinated as pack animals rather than an army. The need for a sentient life form is unknown but it's everything that the Forerunners and Humans have documented. They NEED sentient life to make a Gravemind, the closest thing they'll get to that is a Zerg Queen. I've also discovered how the Gravemind passes down its memories. Genetic Memory. That's why he has so many memories. The only reason he has these is because of the Installation preserving Flood Samples. If we took an absolutely new Flood Cell (don't ask how we could... because it's impossible) it would have no memories of any of the past Graveminds. They may understand Neural Physics when they get smart enough, but not even they can truly transcend time and space. See into the future yes, but not change it. If they could, then the Halo Array would've never been built.

Not even the Flood could kill Char. The reason why is because there's almost absolutely nothing for them there. At most they'd get about 3 grams of dead plant life per acre. If Char had the same surface land area as earth you'd get about 241 pounds of dead plants though there's probably about a hundred more judging by size. There's a lot of precious minerals sure but the Flood can't infect straight up metal. Computers are a system. Ships run on systems. The Flood can use systems. They cover it sure but they can't actually infect what was never alive. So Char is completely and utterly worthless to them. So really, Char is one of the best places to fight the Flood. It is actually unable to be infected as a planet.

As for the Immune System... yeah now that you say that any animal that gets near it would be infected. However what if the cells didn't distinguish from one another. They'd wipe themselves out along with whatever is with them. All you'd have to do is set them to find the weakest cells. The Zerg Cells would consider the Flood Cells weaker than them and start killing them. In the end the cells would wipe themselves out. To store them is easy, force them to sleep. Put it in a certain liquid and it hibernates. The liquid is disturbed and they activate. Flood Cells wouldn't be able to recreate this as it is a liquid that requires an actual organ. If they're an organ than they will definitely be killed as their main priority is to make the liquid. Besides if they mirrored the Zerg Cell than they would have to mirror it perfectly to avoid being targeted immediately. The problem there is that if they mirror it completely than they cut off their ties with the Gravemind. They truly become Zerg and obey a different Hive Mind as this is written in all Zerg Cells.

The Prophet of Truth died because of an Infection Form infecting him. He was already succumbing to it. However I'm doubting that even the Flood could mimic an Immune System with so few cells. I'm also not finding any references to the ability to mimic cells so I can't confirm this.

I was only referring to the Jackals because they were the closest beings to the ground that didn't breath methane.

As I said before, they took over the Ring because there were two armies present which meant plenty of bodies to infect that had sentience.

Also it takes one larva to make a Drone I don't know how many drones it takes to make a Hatchery but it's only fair that they start out with the amount necessary to make a Hatchery. The Queen is a more advanced unit that is not required until later. The Zerg can do this on their own. Not to mention they can take biomass from trees to help with supplements. They could probably do it purely from minerals seeing as they managed to establish a base on Char.

Also about the Infection Form. Say it comes across a feline of a large species. These things are usually fast enough to attack birds in mid flight. They also have more experience in watching for hidden predators and could spot something so out of the ordinary from 50 ft away. The sight actually goes for almost any predators and preys as they either learn that lesson or die. Survival of the Fittest and the Flood Infection Form is most certainly not the fittest. Also a Marine is able to outrun these things, a grunt is able to outrun them. That means that they clock in at best about 7-15 Mph. Any prey or predator that can't run away from something that slow is either a bug, fish, or naturally lethargic animal. In a dangerous world the Infection Form is outclassed in every way from all animals. The only thing it can do is die and try to spread the spores. It can only hope that an animal is curious enough to get near something that practically reeks of death.

Think about it. When has there ever been a time where a Flood Member was truly alone? Most likely never. A spore could be alone, A combat form could have been isolated after battle. However the Flood was never stupid enough to send a single Infection Form alone to a planet. Their instinct is to run suicidally at the nearest thing that moves. It never had to learn stealth or behaviors of animals. It always overpowered them with already present force. The Covenant were caught off guard because they thought they were alone. A real animal knows that they are never alone and they have to always be on watch. Because of this the Flood will start too late and be overpowered as they can't make a Gravemind to coordinate themselves and they wouldn't have gotten enough biomass to make enough Pure Forms to defend themselves.

This situation is even worse on a Dead Planet that only has plant life or no life at all. The Zerg can use whatever is around them to multiply while the Flood is stuck with nothing to infect.

At their strongest the Flood will almost definitely win. However at the beginning. When they face a foe that makes their own tools. It's an almost guaranteed victory. Almost being that they could still infect anything. Unless it's the Zerg, even in their unaltered state the Zerg can fight off the Flood infections as they are just as ruthless to themselves as they are to everything else. Against the Zerg in a battle of Survival, the Flood don't stand a chance. Keep in mind that Survival means that they're on their own. It's up to them to make things, they can't rely on numerous pods or ships to bring reinforcements. They have to build a hive all on their own... something that they've never truly done. They're also doing this without the guidance of a Gravemind because they simply don't have the resources to make one. You can't say that the Gravemind can still guide them because when it doesn't have a definite form, the Gravemind is just saying "Make Me" he can't go any farther than that.

What the analogy meant was say there's a ball. The Flood just drill through the ball and claim it as their own. The Zerg go around the ball and learn it's weaknesses and make themselves stronger than the ball.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Leviathantamer [2013-12-10 10:03:11 +0000 UTC]

Yes Sentient Hosts. You know what sentient means right? Sentient: Able to perceive or feel things. Normal Animals and Zerg are Sentient Life... Plants and some materials are living but not Sentient.

No The Gravemind's consciousness will be within any flood that comes to exist. Remember they were ones Precursors, Gods. Not only that but the Gravemind had the Power of Neural Physics, the power to control all and do anything.

Remember there are areas on Char like the one in the Level Domination in Heart of the Swarm. Regardless remember that as soon as they make a hive the will have all the material they need. All they need are the Flood spores and then Growth Pods will be popping up everywhere.

Um if they target specific cells that are weak, then they are distinguishing between cells. If it Does this then the Flood cells just mirror the cells and go undetected. And no they don't need to cut off ties with the Gravemind. When a flood cell mirrors another Cell it mirrors them perfectly and is able to use the same instructions that the consume cells used. It learns from the cells it has absorbs. If it's a virus that just Attacks anything then as soon as you release it they will attack each other more than they will attack the flood. A free for all with one unified strategic force.

No he didn't. Go play Halo 3 there was no infection form. Also Spore infection takes longer to take over the mind. That's why his mind was still partly his. There not mimicking an in tire immune system they are mirroring the Cells that are consumed and used for other Flood cells. However if enough of the cells in the immune system are Flood Cells then there is no need to mimic the Immunes system.
"The Flood Super Cells capture and interface with the host's cells, which are quickly metabolized, broken down, analyzed, and reassembled into more Flood Cells that mirror the function of the target's cells."
www.halopedia.org/LF.Xx.3273_F…

That's fine. They were still convertible in Halo Wars.

So.... All planets that the Zerg attack have wild life... And For some reason they have just the minerals and gasses they need...

So now we are giving Them more larva or drones? We are talking about them starting with nothing just one Larva and One Infection Form. If the Larva grows to a Drone it won't have the Minerals to build anything. It will have to consume Biomass and evolve to a Queen to birth Zerg. Remember what ever you give the Zerg you have to give the Flood their equivalent.
Then it would kill the Larva and the Infection form but still be exposed to flood cells and will soon become a combat form.
Actually marines can't out run them. And they can be anywhere they need. They can climb on walls. Can a Larva do that? I think not...

Yes in the Halo CE terminal it showed what would happen if one Flood spore escaped. It infested the entire ring world. "One single Flood spore can destroy a species." The only time we saw the Flood is when they were attacking us at relatively high strength. And there was only a few Flood spores on Halo 04, less then what would form from a crushed infection form.
Most animals are knowledgeable of the Predators in their habitat, a Flood Infection form would be something different and unfamiliar. None of the Animals would know how to handle it.

Again the Hives that they use to get to Char will be all they need to make Pure Forms, Spores, and Growth Pods. After a Hive is established, the Flood disposes of almost all need for new biomass, becoming self-sustaining.

No with in a few hours the Flood will have consumed most life in its area having already made the starting's of a Flood Hive and a Proto- Gravemind.
Yes on there own no out side help. And even if the infection form is killed, however unlikely it is, spores will still form from its corpse relatively soon. Also what ever killed it will become a Combat form unless they wear and environment suit. An animal won't be wearing an environment suit.
As soon as they create a Gravemind they will. Also that Larva wouldn't have lasted very long if Kerrigan wasn't instructing it through Psionic connection.

Actually the Flood take the ball learn from it and then turn it in to more flood.

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Leviathantamer In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-12-11 04:49:22 +0000 UTC]

The thing about mirroring cells is that it requires a Super Cell. It also requires a captured host. So not only is it restricted to Super Cells it's also bound to lose to an Anti-Cell. Capturing means that it needs them alive even if for just a moment. The Anti-Cell is just focusing on destruction. In the moment that it tries to capture instead of kill is when it's dead. If it doesn't do any actions it's dead. Say that it does manage to copy the cell. It now does what the Anti-Cell does and destroys. It will now start destroying its own Flood Cells and Zerg Cells. In the end it's going to be alone with nothing to infect.

I read up on Neural Physics and found that there are a LOT of things that Neural Physics can't do. Neural Physics is understanding how the Universe lives in a way that no Biological Being can truly comprehend. Neural Physics is all about how to manipulate the Universes Neural Systems this is why Precursor tech was destroyed by the Halo Array. The Halo Array targeted Neural Systems and destroyed them. The reason why Neural Physics is still possible is because the Universe doesn't have a Neural System like a Biological Being does. The reason why Precursor Tech was destroyed is because the Precursors had to transfer Universe Neural Physics to Biological Neural Physics. The reason why the Flood could create warped space was because of the way the Precursors themselves traveled. They could only do what the Precursors had done and even then there wasn't a lot left for them to use. The Precursors never developed Time Travel nor did they find a way to transfer mass instantly from one location to another.

So a lot of what the Flood could do before is no longer possible. They can still comprehend Neural Physics but they can no longer use it. The Flood can only infect and use. So despite what the name may imply Neural Physics is not at all controlled by any mind. This means that until the Gravemind can figure out how to build it with such primitive metals, The Gravemind will have to do without Neural Physics. Also about the Key Minds. The Key Minds were the ones that could understand Neural Physics. Understand and use the technology. Without the Technology they can't do anything with it.

How does it become Self-Sustaining? For a Hive to become Self-Sustaining means that it can do everything itself. The Self-Sustaining that you were talking about means that it can generate its own Bio-Mass to make more Flood. This means that it has the ability to Perpetually Generate Matter. Something that has never been done before because it requires Perpetual Energy Generating. Something not even done by Neural Physics. If Neural Physics Tech could generate its own Energy than the Star Roads would never have become inactive. You're talking about a Hive on a regular world. This world is barren (from what I know) so a Hive would only have what it came here with. Besides the Hive would burn within the first week due to the irregularity of heat. Even at its minimum temperature the Flood is just barely able to withstand the heat.

If the Gravemind can't Time Travel than they can't put experience in something there was never experience without teaching. The Gravemind can only extend his memories to what was already a part of him. This Flood Cell that we shall just say popped into existence was never a part of him. Therefore it doesn't have any memories. If it came into contact with another Flood Cell than it would have The Gravemind's memories. Not even Neural Physics can do this.

You're underestimating the Nature of Animals again. If they don't know what to do with it then they naturally stay away until they know what to do. A Small Prey would run away from it. A Predator or Large Prey could just step on the frail thing and it would die. A bird that mistook it for Prey would scrape its claws against it and the Infection Form would pop. The Bird is already gone and Large Prey and Predators would already have left so the spores couldn't do anything. Spores and Cells have to be inhaled and injected respectively to have any effect on a body. If the Cells needed to just be splashed onto an enemy to affect them then the Infection Form would suicide itself and splash itself onto an enemy. Yet they don't because they have to inject the Cells manually. It is definitely likely that it would die. Also about the walking on walls thing... Squirrels scamper up trees REALLY fast. Actually the only way that the Infection Form wouldn't die is if it encountered livestock... there's about a 50/50 chance that the Livestock will stampede. 75% chance that it might be able to still latch onto one. about a 25% chance that it will get crushed by the stampede. Yet encountering livestock is highly unlikely as Humans were the ones that domesticated animals into being livestock.

Well still, why would they waste their time on such a barren planet (I haven't played the Multiplayer a lot so if you could tell me which map it is I'll take a look.)

Just so you know they arrived and he was infected. There's a rather high chance that an Infection Form that got past his guards infected him. I also did recently watch the scene on Youtube (my Xbox360 is dead) and what I saw was 2 Combat Forms and about 15 Infection Forms. If you noticed all of the Flood had disappeared except for the infected guards. Besides If it was the Spores that infected him, then the Guards should have been showing the same signs of infection. Not to mention if the spores really work as fast as they do, then Prophet would've been sprouting tentacles way before Chief and Thel'Vadam ever got there.

Also I have played Halo: CE recently and there were more than just spores on that installation. In isolation rooms I found myself repeatedly opening up sealed rooms with Infection Forms in there. That's how the Flood really got the infection going. The Spores were way out of reach from the Covenant as they were located in a room that no one has seen in-game.

The Larva would immediately do their job and morph themselves into a Hatchery even without a Queen or a Hivemind. These are called Feral Zerg. These Zerg don't have any objective other than advance the Swarm. After all we've seen what has happened with Feral Zerg when Kerrigan was de-infested. Any that weren't in a brood started making their own brood if they survived the crash landing (All Zerg were being pulled to Char but some didn't make it by the time Kerrigan was de-infested). Besides Larva have relatively high armor despite their insides being so frail.

You're right so what we give the Zerg we must give the Flood equivalent. So say about 3 Larva if 3 are needed to make a Hatchery that means means 3 Infection Forms. Now we give them access to minerals and gasses. The Flood can't use the minerals and gasses. So they have to rely on the Infection Form's capability to survive and hunt... which it has never had to do before. You can't put experience where it has never been. Also a Queen is not the only way for Zerg to make more Zerg. They actually have Hatcheries which continuously generate Larva and digest Minerals and Gasses. Hatcheries are also one of two buildings that don't require the Creep to be present in order to be built.

Besides even if we only gave the Zerg one drone/larva, it would only delay the Zerg by about 5-30 minutes. I'm pretty sure that Abathur is wise enough to allow any Zerg to make a makeshift egg. While it would take a while longer the Zerg have perfected Gestation. After all a Zergling can be Gestated from a Larva at a Spawning Pool in 24 seconds. Only 2.5 if they become Swarmlings. Making and Hatching an egg would take at most 30 minutes and at least 5 minutes per egg depending on availability of resources.

Also the minerals that are used in game are Khaydarin Crystals. They are not the only thing that the Zerg can use. Khaydarin Crystals just so happen to have a high density and will give them more things to work with when digested. A Rock or an Ore would just give them considerably less. The Gasses can be digested by a Hive to become Highly Nourishing liquid because of the chemicals. This means that the Crystals and Gas are not needed they just help.

I'm only saying these things as we are not limiting it to just the games. If that was true than the Zerg would be able to defeat the Flood at their "Full Strength" as the Flood in the game are considerably numbered.

Well now then. They would learn how to be a ball. The Zerg would learn how to be a ball as well and then how to crush the ball. To put it in better terms I'll quote one of the Primal Zerg Leaders Dehaka.
Dehaka: I do not need a wall. I will evolve armor. I do not need a weapon. I will evolve claws.
Kerrigan: The Toolmakers might create something stronger than your armor and claws.
Dehaka: Their tools stay the same. I collect. I change.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Leviathantamer [2013-12-11 09:52:01 +0000 UTC]

You just don't get it Dude. All the Flood Cells are Super Cells. I've just been calling them cells to shorten it. No they don't need them alive, they can infect dead things as well. No they don't. If we are talking about the virus that attacks everything then no. They don't even need to mirror them because they are attacking anything. Like I said a free for all with one coordinated strategic team.

"After reaching the Key Mind stage, Flood compound minds gained the ability to tap into neural physics and along with it the Precursors' reality-mutation capabilities."
www.halopedia.org/precursor
You need to read Silentium to understand what the flood could do. Also we are talking about the flood at its best so they have Precursor tech.

Not True.

No it uses the biomass of Growth Pods. Spores can grow in to Growth Pods and any Flood Flesh can generate Spores. Also most Pure Forms can birth infection forms, so can Growth Pods. This happened on High Charity, a massive ship. Not a planet. So your wrong again.
And the Flood can generate all the matter it needs to infest the planet. "The Flood changes everything. Not just flesh, space itself is infected."
At the Lowest temp the Flood will feel like we do in 94 F.
And as soon as they crash one of their ships the temperature will begin to drop in that area.

No After they make a Hive they really don't need more biomass they create enough of it as it is. Look at High Charity... There wasn't enough covenant in that thing to make the biomass necessary to turn that thing in to a hive. There would have needed enough covenant that every room would have been filled with them. There was no where near that much.
1. It's not known that the Halo Array destroyed all Precursor tech. The Halo Array only hit Forerunner Known space.
2. We are talking about the Flood at their strongest so they have Precursor tech.
3. The Key Mind allows the Flood to tap in to Neural Physics with out the use of Precursor tech.
Actually they did have time travel. And I never said they could transport to anywhere instantly I said they could travel from one side of the Galaxy to another in seconds. I don't know where your getting your info Because Neural Physics allowed Precursors to manipulate the Fabric of Space and time. "The Precursors' transsentient nature allowed them to manipulate reality via neural physics"
www.halopedia.org/Neural_physi…

The Reason that The Gravemind gains the consciousness and Memories of past Graveminds is because of The Domain aka the Organon. It keeps all knowledge of the Precursors and the Flood were the Precursors so they are Connected to the Organon. So when a Gravemind is made it will gain the consciousness and memories of previous Graveminds.

Have you ever seen a flood infection form? It's Small, fast and makes almost no noise. It can clime on walls if a larger animal sees it they will think of it as no threat. Or if it's a hungry predator it will try to eat the Infection form and turn in to a combat form in a few minutes anyway. Remember Normal people cant kill an infection form with their bare hands like Chief. Spores are the size of small bugs. They can go were ever they need and no animal will care. The flood infection forms do suicide themselves and splash themselves onto an enemy. When it is shot or hit pop. The Pop on Chief when his shield is up. You know that Flood spores are more or less just small specks of Flood biomass and Super Cells. No it would do fine against most animals.

They would attack the Planet because the Zerg are on it. It's not an MP map it's a Campaign mission. Chapter 1 of Char, Domination.

If you watch the scene and look at Truth when the Arbiter is holding him up you can see there is no infection form. And you can look at is body in game and there is no trace of an infection form. Regardless spores were use highly in Halo Wars to infect infantry. I never said that spores infect faster than infection forms... Infection forms take control of the body making transformation faster. With spores it takes a minute or 2.
"The Special Operations Elite Kusovai was horribly infected when he inhaled too many Flood spores. Due to the fact that he had been infected in this secondary manner, his rate of mutation was far slower than that done by an Infection Form, and he was not physiologically distorted in the same manner as those originating from the primary means of Flood infection are. These consequences of infection via Flood spores is next witnessed when the Prophet of Truth is infected by the Flood."
www.halopedia.org/Flood_spores

That's because the Covenant unleashed the Flood and then tried to contain and lock it in the fissility. www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pjm6…

It wouldn't have the minerals required to build a Hatchery. Remember we give them both nothing to start with but themselves. So it would have to evolve into a queen. Even if the had 4 Larva they won't have the Minerals to grow in to Drones let alone to build a Hatchery.

3 larva wouldn't be able to build a Hatchery without minerals. Flood don't need minerals they just need biomass and sentient life for a time then they are self sustaining. Infection forms always do that it's their natural ability to hunt for sentient life and infect them. If it wasn't good at that the flood wouldn't have lasted as long. Just because Chief can killed them doesn't mean animals can. Animals are not super soldiers and they don't have guns.
The Flood have hives and they can continually make spores, infection forms, Pure Form, without any outside material. The Zerg on the other hand continually need Minerals and vespene gas.

Only Queens and Hatcheries can make eggs. So the Larva will need biomass that it will have to hunt for. Also based on Starcraft 2 it take a lot of biomass and the creatures aren't in cages not moving. It will need to consume at least 6 large dogs worth of biomass before it's able to evolve into a Broodmother.
You have to give the Flood THIER equivalent. So if you give the Zerg minerals and gas at the start, you have to give the Flood The same amount of biomass as Minerals and Gas. So the flood infest all the biomass and use it to spread huge amounts of Spores and more infection forms. The environment will be over running with combat forms and Growth Pods in less than a hour. Meaning they will have a massive hive and a Proto-Gravemind.

Ok so they can use any minerals that's fine. But without an already made Hatchery they have no place to put them in and without minerals they can't build things. So the Larvas or larva will still need to consume biomass from the wild and evolve into a Broodmother.

I understand that and I was never just considering the Zerg or the Flood from the games.

The Flood would learn how to be the ball then turn the ball into more flood.
The same can be said for the flood. The Flood collect and Change. And the Primal Zerg and the Zerg Swarm are not the same.

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Leviathantamer In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-12-11 17:02:56 +0000 UTC]

Thank you for clarifying that. Also the reason why I say that they require it alive is because there are three variations of cells in this consideration. Live Cells which are self explanatory. Dormant Cells are what is there when a body is dead, you can still technically revive it but whether or not it can continue its higher functions is a different question, like Brain Cells barely working after revitalization while Red Blood Cells will still perform their job of transporting oxygen. Dead Cells are dissolved cells or cells completely and utterly incapable of doing their job due to damage. I can see why it got confusing as I had to think of Cells differently when thinking of Zerg and Flood Cells. The Flood can use Live and Dormant Cells but can't do anything with truly Dead Cells.

The reason why I'm thinking that the Zerg could match the Flood on a Cellular level is because we're looking at the Zerg. The Zerg are Survival of the Fittest incarnate. They only accept the strongest even without the Anti-Cells. In fact Anti-Cells are always present in a Zerg body. This form is just a weaponized version that can be used outside the body. Even Intelligence can be overwhelmed by Power. The Flood Cells are 'thinking muscle' when put together. However the Zerg at a Cellular level are practically unbeatable because a Normal Cell is the one that knows how to fight back. The Flood Cells aim for the weaker cells which are on par with Human Cells. The true Anti-Cells are even better at exterminating cells than Anti-Bodies. Just because they're called Super doesn't mean that they're all powerful. In this term they're called Super because of how versatile they are. Versatility doesn't mean anything to the Zerg if you can't use it to kill or further the Swarm.

So it's basically Water vs Acid. It only matters how much Water you have to dilute the Acid. Since the Zerg body generates this 'acid' the water isn't going to make it.

You're thinking of the Precursors the same way that the Covenant thought of the Forerunners. You're over glorifying them. They were Transsentient beings that did not tie themselves down to any particular physical form. Yet they were still beings that could and were destroyed. Now look at that page you referred to me. It clearly says " The Precursors based their existence around the philosophical concepts of the Mantle , Living Time and a meta-technological mechanism known as neural physics ". Yet no matter how I look at it, this page clearly says that they used the idea of Neural Physics to merely create their technology. They drew fundamental energy from the Neural Systems of the Universe and using these energies they built technology with it.

Thank you for bringing the Organon into play as I never knew about it before. That's most definitely a good back up drive. However if that was their only way of keeping knowledge than the Gravemind wouldn't have the knowledge from before. The Organon is basically the Internet a really futuristic sentient internet. It's a reservoir of knowledge that projects itself and constantly keeps itself alive by using the features embedded in Precursor Tech. Problem is that it no longer exists due to all Precursor Tech being destroyed by the Halo Array. If they still had it, then they wouldn't need Genetic Memory. So unless the Flood can recreate the Organon they're out of luck. Also the Organon only activated machines, it didn't power them. That's what they needed the Key Minds for.

Their form of space travel involved using the Neural Systems to draw power from. This energy that they used would leave a residue behind that rendered that space unstable for Forerunner FTL Drives. While this would eventually fade, it was still just a side effect that they used to their advantage. Actually the Precursors had a way of dealing with the residue but the Flood decided to keep the residue to use it to disable FTL in that area until the effect faded. However we don't know if this will affect the Zerg way of FTL travel.

In fact when looking at how Starcraft uses Psionics to travel. It becomes evident that they use near similar ways. The Protoss can manipulate the 'void' of space to allow them to reach faster speeds. Chances are that the Zerg use a similar mode of travel if not the same. This means that they would be immune to the residue and could still use it. The only difference is that the Jump isn't instantaneous unlike Precursor FTL travel.

When they reach the Key Mind stage is when they can access Neural Physic Energy. Yet the Flood are no longer the Precursors. The Precursors could build the technology, the Flood can no longer build any of their own technology. The Foreunner Flood war was actually going in the Forerunner's favor until the Flood rediscovered the Precursor Artifacts. They weaponized these. That's the only reason why they actually started winning. So if they have the Precursor Tech, they'll definitely win. Without the tech it really depends on how many Planets have been converted by the Zerg. Because it really doesn't matter worth anything if your opponent can black out the skies while you can do the same thing.

I looked up the term Meta-Technology (www.henryflynt.org/meta_tech/m… and it is barely related to Neural Physics. Meta-Technology is practically saying that Religion is Meta-Technology. The guy that wrote it even explained that he used the term "Technology" very loosely as he couldn't apply the word 'science' to it.

Well then that just means that the Flood is breaking the Laws of Physics. All Physics. Even Neural Physics. Because Neural Physics still draws energy from a source. Since a Hive is not a Key Mind, this transaction is absolutely impossible. They have a finite source of Biomass but will automatically process it when given the chance. The High Charity definitely had enough Biomass to do that. The thing was not only a city but also a military hub with it's own personal Fleet. It held almost 29 million San'Shyuum alone. Millions more in Covenant Citizens. Then there's the Military population as well. They only had to cover the surface of the dome and didn't have to completely infest the inside. I think that about 30-40 million beings are enough for that. Seeing as a crew of about 1000 is able to infest an entire carrier.

Also Domination features absolutely no plant life whatsoever. Instead it features lots of Acid Pools that were modified for deconstructing DNA. However we're talking about Char without the Zerg on it... ever and it's still barren except for barely a couple of dried up plants. Besides that place happened underground. How would any plant life live there? Besides the crash alone would do absolutely nothing. That's like saying flicking my head would lower my body temperature by two degrees. The Hive that was used is going to take a while to root itself in. If they landed on a good day the temperature wouldn't kill them. Also you got your analogy wrong. That's barely on the verge of drying up and becoming brittle for the Flood. So basically it's like a hot day in the desert and you don't have water. Within the hour you'll begin drying up.

The Flood would become brittle and any of that white stuff that tries to go deeper than surface level would most likely evaporate. What with all the lava pools and such. The way that they do it is they constantly excrete the fluid and in such proportions that it overwhelms the core. A Hive that arrives with just itself and no Biomass would either have to focus on cooling down an area or searching for Biomass that it won't find. Even then it's going to run out of Biomass before it can completely cool the area. That's if it's continually a good day on Char. Which it never does. The next day is most likely going to start burning the Flood alive.

You do realize that there is no feasible way that it would work like that. If they really had Spores than they would've been infected long before they reached that room. Meanwhile Cinematics are forced to remove all non-set parts. Like for instance how when I made a break for an escape ship in Halo: CE I had some Covenant attacking me, yet the moment the Cinematic started all of the Covenant magically vanished. If anything I'm guessing that the Combat gave him a wound and one of the Infection Forms popped and the spores landed inside the wound. Or one of them jumped on him and injected him but was killed moments later.

Actually an Infection Form is weak no matter how you look at it. The force of the gas exploding from their bodies actually pops others nearby. Seeing as of how they have particularly balloon like bodies and they most certainly couldn't walk on ceilings if it was pure mass as it would be too heavy for the tentacles to support. They are actually like balloons. Any animal can easily pop a balloon. They also constantly emit a low droning sound. This would put any animal immediately on alert and no animal would be stupid enough to eat it. There's a reason why Snakes are colorful and Lionfish aren't. These colors mean that they are dangerous. To put it simply anything that tries to make itself known via colors is advertising that it's dangerous to eat. The Flood most certainly stand out in almost any environment whether intentional or not.

Infection Forms do suicidally leap at enemies but they don't splash themselves on there. That's the Energy Shield that's popping them. They jump onto enemies and latch on so they can stab a tentacle into the base of their spine so they can override the Nervous System. That's how the Flood truly control things. Nervous Systems. A way to respond to energy. A Lekgolo doesn't have one so it can't be infected. It can still be converted into Biomass though.

So the Flood are actually being counter-productive. The best chance they have is finding a quadruped that lays low to the ground and suicidally fling itself only to be killed by a swift swipe of claws. The Spores get inhaled and now you have a Combat Form that's even more counter-productive. Human and Covenant Combat forms lurch and walk around due to all the misplaced bones and muscles that were caused by the sudden arrival of Tentacles. Quadrupeds are even worse this is because the legs have to be symmetrical in order to move properly meanwhile Humans and Covenant just have to be balanced to move. Sure they have more power in the muscles and the reactions will help movement speed up. But it's all useless if the muscles move in the wrong way or if the bones end up breaking each other due to tentacles displacing them. So now you have a severely crippled Combat Form that couldn't hunt worth crap.

Also the two sites both state that Spores need to be at an open wound or inside the body to work. Probably because Skin Cells/Natural Armor is too tough for Flood Cells to infect.

Alright then no Minerals, No Gasses, and No Biomass since it appears that if one side has any of these pre-available they will have an unfair advantage, so we'll be starting them off all on their own. Also turns out that we'll need to spawn in Drones instead, turns out that Larva die if there's no Creep underneath them. Though it won't necessarily matter as they play almost the same role just with the difference of one being able to collect resources.

All of the Zerg Strains bar the Larva, Queen, and most Special Zerg are actually assimilated species from around the galaxy. The drones are fairly capable fighters as their genetic strains come from the, I kid you not Savage Gashyrr Wasps. They would only be called savage if they were deadly. In fact the Drones are only considered weak because they're going up against people in thick armored suits with guns. Drones are actually silent hunters with predatory senses that are more than at home in the Jungle and will not be taken down by local predators short of Paragons of the species or large prey that are armored. Take for instance an Alpha of a Wolf Pack. They also know not to take on Packs unless ordered to.

They're Silent due to the fact that they 'float' off the ground by waving their flaps at regulated intervals and only need their legs as stabilizers. Claws that can dig through most minerals is most certainly bone crushing. The Zerg don't get rid of any predator senses nor do they get rid of natural animal senses as these are only beneficial to the body. You also seem to have forgotten that the Hatchery isn't the only Zerg organism that has digestive fluids. As I said before it'll take a bit longer but it'll be up and running within at most an hour an a half.

I'm going to be ignoring the 'Retard Magnet' effect from the games as we all know that all of those beings wouldn't really charge solo into a large group of whatever their enemy is.

So the Drones will convert themselves into a Hatchery after scavenging the minerals from the earth and biomass from local prey and predators. The Hatchery starts spreading the Creep which actually roots into the ground and starts digesting any minerals and biomass it comes across to feed the buildings above it. The Larva that are made can sacrifice their shells to make themselves into drones. The drones DON'T make a Broodmother instantly as they do not require one. Instead they start collecting resources. Once they have the resources, more Larva convert into drones to make a Spawning Pool. The Spawning Pool lets Larva turn into Zerglings which can easily hunt down any local predators as Biomass while more drones are cutting down trees and having the Hatchery digest them. Within the hour they've already got another Hive set up and begin making more. This is the point where they will be making Broodmothers and Queens. The reason being that Two Hives that aren't connected by a Queen or Broodmother will start fighting each other.

The only difference between Primal Zerg and The Swarm is that one is based around Pack Leadership and the other is based around a Hive Mind. They're still the same species. Granted the Primal Zerg look more reptilian than insectoid but that's all that's truly different. Oh and the fact that the Primal Zerg evolve separately instead of as a Hive.

Now I'm rather curious about your age/mental prowess. Any High Schooler or above would have learned to read before responding.With Middle Schoolers it's when they're learning it. I noticed that your statements only acknowledged what I said as they went. This means that you were responding to them as you went. While not common to find, it's still an odd way of doing things. Not to mention a couple of times you have blatantly ignored what I said in very few occasions and didn't provide any true evidence to support it. You also appear to not be acknowledging certain facts or it seems like you didn't read things thoroughly. I myself am a 16 Year Old Junior in High School.

Believe me I don't mean to ridicule you in anyway I'm just curious. I've had worse arguments with people most likely younger than me. One of which was a Shadow the Hedgehog fan who refused to believe that Shadow could die. He even outright said that the people who made Shadow the Hedgehog were wrong. You have been a most wonderful person to discuss the topic with but now flaws are becoming more evident. Flaws that I thought you would've known were there.

Also the Flood don't change. They force others to change to their needs. Why else would they convert Biomass into a Pure Form.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Leviathantamer [2013-12-12 07:07:25 +0000 UTC]

No. I believe they can still gain from dead cells as well. I don't know to what extent. However what I do know is that Flood prefer living creatures when building a Gravemind but they can use creatures that have died. When a person dies their Brain cells die within minutes. Other cells and tissues follow. An Infection form can still learn how to use guns and open locked doors, for the most part by infecting and learning from a dead body. This means that the Flood can still use the dead brain cells or perhaps they are using something else we don't know of. However as of right now that's very unlikely.
The Flood have done more impossible feats than that. In Silentium, they revived a Human, The Lord of Admirals aka Forthencho. This ancient Human was not only killed by the Forerunners but his consciousness was placed in a new Human Name Chakas, so the Forerunners could later study his memories. This human never came in direct contact with the Flood. After a very interesting quest in Halo Primordium, on installation 01, his body became to damage for him to keep living. Thankfully the Iso-Didact transferred his consciousness into a Machine Monitor... 343 Guilty Spark. No I have no idea how the Flood managed to reproduce Forthencho into his original Human state but they did. The Flood did this to taunt the Librarian. He gave her one final message and it was about the Organon aka the Domain. The Message was that the Organon, the one piece of technology that the Forerunners have Searched for millennia to find, It's location will be lost. The Organon is somewhere out of Forerunner Known space. The Halo Array only covered Forerunner Known Space, it also didn't cover the Ark's location. So that's where Wiki is wrong. The Organon is not destroyed it is hidden without any bread crumbs to follow. The Organon is also an entity of its own and chooseswhether to give knowledge or not. The Flood and the Precursors being one in the same allows them to access it fully. This is also proven in Silentium because the Domain, aka The Organon, stop functioning for the Forerunners and in many ways was also hindering the Their ability to Fight the Flood.
Sorry I put this at the beginning, I really wanted to clarify it.
Well when debating whether or no one fictional creature would win against another, both being from a different universe entirely, you can’t do that. This is why I’m not pressing my belief that the Flood could convert living Zerg. It’s Called a Super Cell because it acts like Stem Cells. Its ability to mimic any organ or mirror any cell it is placed around. Ok I understand the Zerg Cells are freaky but like I said these are two fictional being from two different Universes. Unless we are able to get real samples of both Cells we will never truly know which is superior. So lets come to an agreement. The Flood can not infect living Zerg, However using Spores can weaken them. Also dead Zerg are fair game for both Flood and Zerg. Where did you get that? I have read nothing that states they only attack weaker Cells only. They might if its faster but even then it would be better to mimic stronger Cells.
No not really. Because of the way that Flood Super Cells works it makes basically any Cellular entity unable to fend for itself. Adding numbers into the equation only increases this.
Also, unlike the Zerg, The Flood naturally use their Cells and spores to a large extent. The Zerg as far as I know have never used their Cells as weapons in this way. If they did the Protoss and Terrans wouldn’t have stood a chance.
Well by our Definition the Precursors are Gods or at least they were. God: the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
Last words of Forthencho, the Gravemind’s Message. “The Precursors lived in many shapes, Flesh and Spirit, Primitive and Advanced, Space Faring and Locked to their Worlds, Evolved over and over again, Die away, were Reborn, explored and seeded many Galaxies. This is what I was told. I understand little. We are your Children, Librarian, but we are also their children.”
Actually its not that they could be destroyed it’s that they saw the wonders of destruction and decided not to stop it. This Is why the Flood was formed. The Precursors wanted to create the ultimate form of Destruction and to make sure that none of the Beings they created would ever stand against them again.
It really reminds me of The Christian bible. God and Angels. The Precursors. The Fallen Angel, lucifer and demons. The Flood.
We don’t know that they were destroyed. We Know that the Forerunner rose up against the Precursors. Using the Technology and power they were given from Precursors. The Forerunners had Power and technology far ahead of what they have in the Forerunner books, somehow they lost it all. Some Precursors left the Galaxy and others Formed into the Flood. That’s what we know. I actually have a theory about all of this, but not enough evidence to prove it. Anyway I’m getting off topic.
The Organon is much more than just knowledge, its understanding, truth, the wisdom of the Universe, and of what came before it. Also one thing that I forgot to mention about the Machine intelligence in Halo is that they are eternal. Destroying the Shell does not destroy the being. 343 Guilty Spark is living proof of this. After Master Chief destroyed 343 and Installation 04, for the second time, his consciousness continued to linger on in space. Till it was picked up by the UNSC. That’s where Halo Primordium’s story comes from. Its 343 Guilty Spark telling the story of the days when he was still human.
Agreed.
You don’t know that For a Fact however I wouldn’t press the subject.
Not true the Flood was ravaging the Galaxy long before they acquired Precursor tech. The tech only made them more powerful. Well it was more like they had Lol hacks “The widespread emergence of Key Minds during the Forerunner-Flood war effectively enabled the Flood the power of manipulating reality to an extent through their sheer power of thought.” In the book it indicated the Floods new abilities separate from the new Precursors Ships and Tech popping up. Not only that but strategically they are superior to almost anything. As far as we know The Zerg have Never been able to blackout the sky with ships. Not only that but the more Zerg minds that are created the more separate minds are need to control them. The Flood on the other hand have had Fleets that can blackout the sky and their one, there is no separate mind.
The Link didn't work. However I understand that what we call “Magic” could just be Technology that we don’t understand. However the Precursors powers just being Technology we don’t yet understand doesn’t mean they are not Gods. In Halo the Precursors are the Gods of our Galaxy or even our Universe.
You're implying that a Fictional beings are breaking the laws of our reality? You don’t say….
halo.wikia.com/wiki/Flood_Hive
Are you talking about how something can not be created from nothing? Well the Biomass isn’t created from nothing, Flood spores grow into Growth Pods and the Growth Pods can grow into Pure Forms. Don’t think of it as creating more Biomass, think of it as Reproduction. Check out this link.
www.tutorvista.com/content/bio…
No there wasn’t enough in High Charity. To create all that flesh on the walls they would have needed all the Covenant in the fleet, which a large portion of the fleet was destroyed and another large chunk left to chase an infested ship, and all the creatures in High Charity just to begin to cover the walls with Biomass. It can take less than 1000 to infest a Carrier.
We are? If there is not Zerg on Char than the Flood have no reason to even look at it.
However the Talk of infesting Char is starting to annoy me. You don’t seem able to comprehend the Floods ability to infest planets. This isn’t real life. They are fictional beings. Therefore The Flood will no longer try to infest it… they will just make the sun go supernova and just destroy the whole Solar system.
It doesn’t matter if the cinematic doesn’t make sense to you. The Flood can use Flood spore, Halo Wars is all the proof you need. Not only that but in the Halo Graphic Novel an Elite was converted through Flood Spores.
No they actually are not. Again you are using reality to justify fiction. Thats not how it Works. The Infection Forms are relatively hard to kill with your bare hands. An Eagle like creature wouldn't be able to kill one. A bear like creature would react too slowly to avoid it. The only creatures that would be able to kill it would be creatures similar to large Cats. Also an infection form would look like a small fat creature like a pig to a Predator and they would react to it the same way they would react to a pig. Its not Colorfull at all its a tannish yellow, the Color of a standard white human. Snakes have colors like White, bright yellow, green, blue, red, and they have patterns. Infection Forms do not. To a Big Predator, an Infection Form would look like a plump stake. Oh it was the other guy that I Told that. I’m getting you to mix up.
They were first encountered in the Milky Way galaxy by an Ancient Human empire 10,000 years prior to the Forerunner-Flood war. The earliest known instance of the highly infectious viral super cell later known as The Flood form to be encountered came in a fine desiccated powder, contained in cylinders. Early experiments showed the potential for psychotropic effects in some lower levels but not in humans or San'Shyuum. The primary animals affected were popular pets in human societies: the Pheru, lively and gentle creatures found on Faun Hakkor. Very small quantities of the powder induced changes in the Pheru that improved their domestic behavior. Soon San'Shyuum adopted the custom of taking Pherus as pets. For centuries humans and San'Shyuum bred and powdered these animals without ill consequences. However the powder soon attached itself to key points in the genes of the Pheru and began to change them, which manifested itself as a peculiar growth found on a third of the powdered Pheru. A kind of loose, soft fur grew between the shoulders of the pets. Other Pheru were soon found grazing on these companions, consuming their fur-and on occasion even consuming the animals themselves. This was odd, as Pheru were naturally herbivores. This seemed to activate some sort of biological timer, a signal for expansion. Within a very short time, the Pheru were producing far less attractive growths. Flexible striped rods sprouted from their heads, which in turn were also consumed by fellow Pheru, causing abortions and unnatural births. But this was only the surface of the growing infestation. Eventually the Flood evolved into the form that we know today and fought a war with both the Ancient Human Empire and the San'Shyuum.
See the Flood would look delicious to predators if it could turn herbivores in to carnivores.
Yes but they are also releasing Spores when they explode or pop. What do you think that green gas is? Its not fart gas. Sorry your wrong again.
Where are you getting your Info? Ok it inhales Spores in about 30 seconds it will be a Combat form, faster, stronger, and with less mutations. Now it can collect more creatures to infect. It’s speed and strength should be more than enough to hunt more local wildlife. Soon there will be more combat forms, infection forms, and Growth Pods. The Proto-Gravemind comes next and then a Hive will be built. After that they just make Pure Forms and everything else is a breeze. Oh and in Halo Graphic Novel the Flood were infecting Wild life in some kind of nature preserve in a Covenant Ship. There were all kinds of animals. There were Dier looking, Gorilla looking, Bear looking, and wolf looking animals. No birds though. Oh and to solve your Muscle and bone Problems in combat form, they liquefy the end sides. That’s why bullets and piercing projectiles don’t do that much damage. They go straight through. Flood have regenerative properties too.
Oh yeah that reminds me Halo Wars shows us something else cool. The building and Growth Pod that spawn forms, don’t fully die unless the Forerunners vaporize them. And no acid and banelings won't work. The covenant plasma doesn't work either.
I never said they didn’t need to be in the Body.
Ok so you're Starting with a Drone. Hmm. Something the size of a small car for The Zerg and a 2 foot tall lobster for the Flood. Seems Fare. So the Infection form finds the first predator, looks delicious, and gets eaten. About 30 seconds later, it will be a combat form, faster, stronger, and less mutations. Now it can collect more creatures to infect. It’s speed and strength should be more than enough to hunt more local wildlife. Soon there will be more combat forms, infection forms, and Growth Pods. The Proto-Gravemind comes next and then a Hive will be built. After that they just need to make Pure Forms and everything else is a breeze.

I’m 19 and I’m going into College. I’ve been doing this on my Iphone for the Most part. I’m doing it on my computer now. It’s a lot easier to make mistakes like that on the phone. However there are things I did overlook or misread. I could name them now but you were making similar mistakes early on.

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Jarry1337 In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-12-10 03:50:54 +0000 UTC]

No because the Flood is one there is no separate mind. Abathur is good I won't deny that but the Gravemind has the knowledge from before there was time. And because of the memories of past Graveminds, as soon as he has the brain power to comprehend the memories, well at that point your dealing with some very scary. Here's the problem with your anti-virus. Flood cells are able to mirror any cell, this is why our immune system won't attack the cell... Not that our immune system could kill flood cells... Also the cells are controlled by the Gravemind and he can manipulate them in any way he wants. One of the ways he has used this is when he made ancient Human and Forerunners believe that a cure was made when in reality it was just the Gravemind controlling the infection so the Forerunners would have a reason not to kill all the humans. In other word the Gravemind can use flood cell strategically. On no no no no. You would never want to put flood cells or flood DNA near large amounts of biomass. Remember that the Gravemind is the Flood even at a cellular level. He could easily place flood cell or flood DNA in an area and make them inert till just the right time. 
Copy and Paste is a way you could put it. The difference is that each time The Cell is pasted it learns of the area it's pasted in. This is how it's able to mirror any cell. Apparently the Flood super cell was based on the creature the Thing from the Movie The Thing....

Yeah but that's only helping the Flood super cell. As soon as the Flood cells come in contact with the anti-virus cells it will begin mirroring them. The Flood Cells well become indistinguishable from the Anti-virus Cells. 

On a good day the flood will be warm not boiling. 
The Flood crashing into the Planet is all that is needed to begin changing the atmosphere. You don't seem to understand when the Flood infest a planet they kill it. I was wrong about one thing. The Growth Pods are made from Flood Spores. If the area does not have enough biomass to support a Flood Growth Pod, the spore will spread over floors and walls until it covers as much as it can. When this flesh stuff spread over an area it beings to sweat a white liquid. This Liquid seeps in to the ground and not only infests other areas but it cools or warms the area to better suit the Flood. So If a large portion of the planet is infested then the Planet will either Cool down or worm up.

No you said Zerg Larva. In Starcraft 2 Heart Of The Swarm they showed us how a Larva alone grow. It eats Biomass and grows in to a Queen. Then she cam birth Zerg creatures.

The Flood in Halo CE started as a few Flood Spores... They took over the ring in Hours.

Its fast and Small. Hard to see and when it leaps at you it's already to late. It can take weaker creatures or strong ones. the true trump card is that it not only take control of the body but it makes it Fast, Stronger, and more resilient. A weaker creature could become the top predator.  

Actually they can. In Halo Wars Spores were almost the number one reason people got infected. In halo 3 The Prophet of Truth was infected by Spores. The reason we don't see infected Jackals is their bodies are so small and weak that they are better used for biomass. However Jackals, grunts, and most everyone could turn in to a Combat form. No for the most part our immune system wouldn't even know we were infected with the Flood Super Cell' abilities. 

Yes Basic instincts. Your alone, you need to infest, you are small, you are fast, and your are weak.

I'm not sure I follow.

I don't think I understand your analogy.

That's Fine.

Sorry I Didn't mean to send the first one.

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Lordawsomness In reply to Jarry1337 [2014-08-18 02:00:07 +0000 UTC]

(not trying to argue you just adding). It would mean then that the flood is Precursor, a god who has forgotten what its powers are. The more and more it grows the higher it climbs to god hood. Also, prior to the forerunner flood war the flood had already assimilated a galaxy(they are played just to underwhelming in the games). 

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-27 06:02:25 +0000 UTC]

1. That's actually not the reason he wasn't infected, his Imunity to flood control is because of the conditions he was put under for the Spartan 1 project. 2. This only stops flood infection forms from controlling him, he can still be infested or used as Biomass. 3. Flood in itself is an infection because of the Flood supercell. Every part of flood infested biomass can and does infest other things. Even the atmosphere becomes infested and anything at isnt wearing an environment Suit will become infested as well.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-27 06:17:35 +0000 UTC]

Nonetheless, if simple conditioning by scientists who in terms of biotechnology are far below the Zerg can accidentally cause an immunity, and given what SC2 has gleaned about zerg adaptability points to the Zerg being able to adapt to such.Submit Comment

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-27 14:01:38 +0000 UTC]

A blatant disregard of everything but the first part if my comment. Also now that I think about it there's no real evidence that states that Johnson has any real immunity at all. All that happen was the flood ignored him and continue to fight and infect all the other marines. In the state the flood were in they were no more than animals without the central intelligence(Gravemind). It's a well known fact that carnivorous animals won't eat or attack creatures that are sick or diseased.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-27 23:11:47 +0000 UTC]

blatant disregard? My point was that if simple changes of DNA change how the flood views/deals with things, then the Zerg can likely adapt to any of the issues that occur to them. They've not only done similar levels of infestation, but been shown to adapt to incredibly harsh conditions, such as a planet cold enough to freeze their forces solid instantly. moreover, the flood's leadership itself is, compared to the Zerg's leadership, rather easy to take out. They can attempt to infest all they want, but they're not defeating a creature capable of true adaptation when they themselves are fairly slow to adapt, purely through infectious means. they'll have to rely on their own capabilities more than anything, which is where they'll fail against any Zerg force.

This isn't even noting the Zerg's air superiority. It's pretty much a stomp in the Zerg's favor.

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-28 00:11:02 +0000 UTC]

But that's not the case... The Flood infest anything and everything. It's true in the Games they have rarely shown this but it's true. Changes in DNA won't stop infestation. The Forerunners and Ancient Humans worked for thousand of years to find a cure. The Humans had thought to have found an answer by infecting Flood with a neural virus that disconnects them from the Gravemind but that wasn't even true the Flood simply with drew their forces because The humans past the test to obtain the Mantel. The Gravemind actually can't be destroyed. As long as the Flood exist the Gravemind's consciousness and memories continue and are given to the next. The physical body you see is nothing more than a shell to house him and continue his consumption of intelligence. As a matter a fact simply by infesting one zergling the Gravemind can learn all he needs to know of the Zerg to consume them. And that is how the flood destroys all by using their strengths and weaknesses against them.
The Flood do adapt they adapt to the point of warping reality. They don't just corrupt creatures, they corrupt environments, planets, entire solar systems become their hive. Slip-space(and alternate dimension wasn't even out of their reach.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-28 01:16:35 +0000 UTC]

The forerunners and ancient humans also are far less powerful or expansive as the zerg. The zerg change in a matter of minutes, and they're also psionically linked and mindless without psionic links. The other issue is that they simply corrupt in a predictable way Environments, planets, solar systems, etc., given that conventional warfare was effective against them both in the games and in the past, and simply taken too too slowly, it's not an issue. As far as the flood merely infesting one zergling and figuring out how to infest them, again, the entirety of zerg adaptation is change. For that matter, infesting a few flood bio-forms would allow them to replicate and use similar abilities - the Defiler, devourer, and queen's have all shown they're quite capable of bio-engineering on the microscopic level. Moreover, again, it's very hard for the flood to spread when their basic soldiers are incapable of actually outnumbering or infesting the zerg. Even a zergling has a shell resistant to gauss-levle spikes and more limbs than they know what to do with - and from orbit their leviathans would simply blast them with acid and destroy any of them. They've, again, got nothing in terms of "corruption" the zerg wouldn't be capable of adapting their very bodies to deal with, particularly when the flood's own code would be able to be assimilated into the Zerg's own capabilities.

Barring that, there's still the Zerg's own reality-warper, Kerrigan, who'd be quite capable of wiping out most of said opponents easily. I don't remember anything the flood employed - or anything that wasn't a hybrid in SC's own universe - that can really take her down. There's not much you can do to a reality-warper that takes nukes to the face and smiles.

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-28 04:24:55 +0000 UTC]

Dude Forerunner Frigates can destroy entire solar systems. The Zerg are nothing in comparison. And the Flood change every time they consume, infect, and or infest and when the flood is all over the galaxy they are doing that a lot. Also Kerrigan and the Overmind need Cerebrates and Queens to extend their control of the Zerg. While the Gravemind is the Flood, he and them are one. What?! Conventional war far was never how you defeated the Flood in the Games and the Past. In the Games you had to completely destroy the planet/continents the flood are on or activate the Rings and destroy all life to ever hope if destroying them... And even then they can still survive. In the Past the Forerunners Tried fighting the Flood like a normal war Armies against armies and that only killed them faster. The Ancient humans were more successful because they treated it like an infestation destroying planets that the Flood had infested and even then the Flood was still a step a head. The Zerg would not be able to infest the Flood for one infestation by the zerg takes to long and it takes extra biomass to infest which as soon at it begins the Flood supercell will infest all biomass that comes in contact with flood biomass. The Flood doesn't have to get through Zerg exoskeletons they can get in through the mouth like they did with the Brutes. Also all the flood have to do is infest the atmosphere and all biological beings will become infested.
The Flood super cell can be described as a "thinking muscle" and closely resembles neurons or glial cells in structure.[2] The Flood have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have the ability to arrange these FSC's to mimic any organ that may be necessary. Apparently, it is also capable of intelligent discourse with Artificial intelligences, such as 032 Mendicant Bias. The Flood Infection Form use their tendrils to place this cell into any living organism, turning them into the Flood.
She can't take nukes to the face that's just game mechanics. Also the The Gravemind is trillions of minds combined, a compound Mind, a few of those minds bring those of Precursors the most intelligent brings that have ever existed. Having psionic abilities. The Gravemind will have no trouble fighting off Kerrigan Psionically.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-28 10:02:12 +0000 UTC]

even the terrans can blow up planets, using apocalypse class nukes, and the protoss can do so very casually, so the forerunners aren't getting all that far based on that alone. Hell, it's implied the Xel'naga, rather than destroying solar systems, instead did things like make planets, or seal away, say, c'thulu. The zerg don't need extra bio-mass to infest, merely to add properly to their genetic code. Nonetheless, the flood do die, and thier biomass eventually becomes inert, which makes them ripe for infestation.

Infesting the atmosphere only works if the creatures within the atmosphere still have to breathe it in - and given Zerg Chitin being rather encompassing and every single zerg life-form comfortable able to bear outer-spatial conditions, it doesn't matter. Ignoring that, Leviathans don't need to be on the planet, simply fire plasma from without. 

The Precursors may be the most intelligent beings to exist in their own universe, but Kerrigan's psionic abilities are simply on another level, to say nothing of the Xel'naga. They were incapable of doing something even as simple as, say, mind-breaking a spartan nearby, whereas Kerrigan broke a powerful Protoss prelate's mind - Raszagal - from literally light-years away, the distance between Char and Shakuras.

Besides that, even ignoring conventional warfare:

By manipulating key strands of the Floods genetic buildup, infecting a third of the human population, then placing them directly along the pathway of the Flood, the humans were able to 'reprogram' the intentions of the Flood.

Rather than wanting to consume sentient life, the Flood turned on itself, seeing other members of the mutation as being enemies.

Now that's what mere humans can do. Look at something that can reprogram itself to work in conditions on the fly, and then tell me it's not capable of doing similar? Particularly since the zerg have 0 moral issues.

This is of course dodging the point, that being that the flood would have to have enough military forces on the planet to secure the infection before acid simply killed off what's left on the remains, or that even something as comparatively weak as a spartan suit is capable of providing protection, and I don't think the zerg shall have much issue.

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-28 21:11:35 +0000 UTC]

And So can The UNSC with a nova bomb. That doesn't prove that the Zerg are anywhere near as strong as the Forerunners that can destroy whole solar systems with one Frigate. The Forerunners could make Worlds rather easily and place the space of a large solar system in something the size of a Safeway. The Forerunners could age a creature millions of years in seconds. No the Flood don't die because the Flood is the Gravemind and as long as there is at least one flood spore he will remain. The only way you can full wipe out the flood is if you destroy all life. Kerrigan can die as well if you wipe out the zerg. Where are you getting this info Flood biomass does not become inert ever, if that was the case the Flood would have died during the Forerunner Flood war or after the Halos fired. They continued to live for 100,000 years with out food. On the other hand the Overmind was destroye by war methods. When they infest the atmosphere the gasses become micro Spores that can worm there way into any creature that's not wearing an environment suit. Yes the Zerg can take extreme hazardous environments but they haven't dealt with an atmosphere that infests and corrupts all living things within it. Even if Kerrigan had superior Psionic abilities than 50 Precursors combined, which I seriously doubt, we are talking about a creature that has billions, trillions of minds, and memories of creatures that lived for thousands of years (precursor could live for hundreds of thousands of years). Ancient Humans, Forerunners, and Precursors all had Psionic abilities, Precursors being the most powerful. Forerunners and Humans were mostly just telepathic. Forerunner Commanders could communicate and lead their fleets on the opposite side of the Galaxy just by using there mind. Also the Precursors Created both the Humans and the Forerunners and are the reason they were so powerful. The Gravemind Could break the minds of The most intelligent AIs ever known simply with his Psionic abilities. An AIs mind in Halo is far more complex than any organic mind sept the Gravemind's.

You got that from the wiki? Funny how now that Silentium is out they have updated some parts and others they have not... I already explained this. The Gravemind did all of this himself making it seem that The Humans had made this neural Virus but he was really just upholding the Precursors will to bestow the Mantel to Humanity. Here's the quote from Silentium: "And that's is how the Flood saved Humanity from our wrath. By first infecting and then withdrawing, and so implying the Humans knew of a way to combat or avoid the disease. An astonishing strategic faint. One that I cant help but admire. Favored by the flood. Saving the Humans as many as possible."
Ancient Humans were just as powerful if not more than the Forerunners, so they were not just mere humans. And a Mere human scientist was able to cure the Zerg infection too. Ancient Humans and Forerunners were superior in every way to the Terran and the Protoss.

Sorry of I'm writing sloppy I'm doing this on my IPhone.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-29 01:17:08 +0000 UTC]

and the protoss and Xel'naga have similarly powerful storage tech. Hell, the protoss have it to the point that intersellar teleportation is capable of being stored on an infantry-man, But let's dial this back here - we're not comparing the forerunners, or the Protoss, or the Xel'naga. We're looking at their off-spring - if it was a case of us just looking at who they destroyed, then the Xel'naga are more or less their universe's precursor equivalent, so really, it's not an issue.

A mere human scientist found a "cure" to the zerg infection in that she found a way to deal with it under controlled circumstances. Infested terran can and do appear to this day, and they're even capable of being created by the zerg, which is another thing they have going for them. Zerg constantly create and adapt even in the absence of new creatures to do so with - the flood are very population-reliantZerg, on the other hand, go toe to toe regularly with terrans, who have NBC shielding on even their basic suits, and are literally the masters of adaptation, not to mention having scanning capabilities quite capable of warning them of the flood. They're quite capable, again, of insulating themselves for deep-space operations, which implies some obvious air-tightness due to the similarities between them and the other's physiology.

The big difference is that the Zerg adapt on their own. The flood are reactionary based on what they assimilate, whereas the Zerg can prep and have much better space capabilities.

And as far as the Overmind being destroyed by war methods, that's actually an utter untruth - the Overmind's inner shell was actually immune to any and all conventional weaponry the terran and protoss forces had at the time - he was killed by Tassadar combining light and dark templar energy, which allowed him to sacrifice himself in order to destroy the overmind.

The difference I'm trying to convey with the protoss is that they don't need a bomb, though the terrans themselves do - the blast Tassadar's gantrithor fired was something they can use as much as they need to, and it's full capability's never shown - nothing in-series is capable of blocking it.

My main issue is you've yet to note a feat of the flood's the zerg can't replicate - they've infested the environment, the air, planets, etc. and even the smallest bit of creep's been shown to be capable of doing so on it's own. Arguing who can infect who, however, really doesn't matter - if we ignore that, it's quite notable that they can simply go in, destroy whatever flood infection combat-forms and etc is on-site, quarantine and glass the planet, or the acid equivalent of such, and move on.

Heck, for that matter, what causes the Zerg to get in contact with the flood bio-mass in the first place? Am I forgetting an instance of flood ships?

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-29 05:16:39 +0000 UTC]

That's fine.

And that "Cure" is still way more than anyone has gotten in regards to the Flood. 

Actually when the Flood get to a certain point in their corruption they start relying much more on Pure Forms(creature made entirely by flood biomass) and they come in all shapes and sizes. Here's a site that has cataloged the majority of forms we've seen or know of. 

haloid.wikispaces.com/The%20fl…

Also as an added benefit most if not all pure forms can birtd spores, The Gravemind himself breaths the things out.

A real Flood force at this stage would consist of millions of pure forms and trillions of combat forms(infested creatures). 

Yes the Terran Marine suit and armor plating is very good id say almost as good as MC's armor, however the forerunners armies had to have at least a Class 12 combat suit(6 time stronger than MC's Mjolnir Mark 6, a Class 2) The Combat suit's with its ancilla and neural interface gave the wearer full environment awareness. Scanners? Did you the Didact's scanner?

Look at that known forms you can see that the flood are never ill equipped.

And all Forerunner weapons were able to combine, In Ghost of Onyx sentinel got to a point that they could destroy a whole Covenant Currier in one shot, if you remember from the Game the sentinel were never that big of a threat. Now add this ability to their Ships that already have more destructive power than a Super Nova and well your fuck. I'm sorry but nothing in Fiction could survive that not even Super Man, Normal Super Man not what he became after he spent 100,000 years in that Sun.

Here's a Feat I haven't seen the Zerg accomplished. The shear size that flood have gotten to. Not just fores but Hives. They can move around in space at speeds that can keep up with Forerunners, this is do to their use of Slip Space. The Forerunner could get across the galaxy in minutes.

A Forerunner Dreadnought 

 images.wikia.com/halo/images/b…

The Flood making it look live a toy...

www.ascendantjustice.com/files…

The Zerg Come in contact with flood Biomass as soon as they begin fighting. Flood Spore super cells fill the air or atmosphere, flood Infection Forms flood the Zerg in number that I don't have words to express and begin fining ways to get in to the Zergs bodies and attach to their nervous systems and convert them to Combat forms. Most likely by going through the mouths.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-29 09:16:22 +0000 UTC]

almost as good? Last time I checked the Master chief's suit has issue with conventional weaponry. Every single marine has a high-caliber automatic rifle that canonically fires at hypersonic speeds - technically a rail-gun, not evoking quite the power that name throws around in fiction but still high enough caliber to cut through current tank armor like a knife through butter. Marines can take several clips of it in the suit's, canonically. Even counting the shielding, that means something. And again, it's full NBC - that means effective up to basic radiation. Flood need to be able to somehow go through that.

Even before the games started and Kerrigan expanded, the Zerg were easily the largest form of life in the koprulu sector, having taken over millions of different planets and their creature strains, so it's not that big an issue to say 

These are the same guns even Zerglings can take to the face, it should be noted, with minimal damage.

And as far as "super-cells" all I'm seeing is them being a micro-organism, and the zerg are both experienced with those and actually field those - Defiler Dark swarm, for instance, actually being tiny micro-organisms that literally eat the projectiles fired into them at such high speeds anything in their area is secure. Given this'd take stopping a bullet, which is moving at hypersonic speeds at least since we know it's effective against marines, this'd give them the capability to rapidly and instantly eat away something moving at mach speed. I'd like to see the flood infect something that effective at destruction.

The zerg are capable of throwing around casual forces in the millions of air and billions of ground, and overtake several hundred worlds in the span of about a day or two at the beginning of WoL, which is several hundred planets with people's somewhere in the billions number for the most part.

Zerg are "without number" for a reason. Billions and even trillions means nothing compared to the hive-production most of them have.

On a somewhat off-topic note, while nothing on either side here really can, there's actually plenty of fictions capable of tanking a supernova to the face. Tenchi Muyo is a good example of characters that wouldn't have an issue with Forerunners, as well as Galactus from marvel, able to destroy several solar systems easily without the aid of his infinity rod, simply from the pure range and power of his strike.

As far as the zerg's ability to move around in space, they actually use warp travel that allows them to go around, given they're using the same methods of travel as the protoss, the galaxy in less than a day - not as fast, but certainly not slow.

On that note, Kerrigan's able to open mass rifts into warp-space with psionic power alone:

images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__c…

These rifts were able to accommodate the normal amount of Zerg forces in orbit around a planet, which normally dwarfed the planet in terms of accumulative size at the time. Kerrigan's capable of opening one with personal power, without strain.

The zerg have a very... undefined empire, though given that they have millions of strains and are stated to have overtaken a countless amount of life-forms, a few thousand's a safe minimum. However, it was never their goal to build up and expand - merely overtake the protoss, originally. The queen of blades, on the other hand, was somewhat held back by her former self and was also more interested in increasing the swarm's effectiveness than actually worrying about such. Given a single drone can turn into an entire army in the span of a day, though, I'd say that colonizing at speed, particularly with aid of the warp, would not be an issue.

And on the subject of Protoss psychic power meaning nothing compared to AI?

The protoss are literally so powerful psionically that without the discipline of the khala, they're capable of sending out mind-breaking ripples throughout their environment accidentally. the Psionic storm - which is something even an average protoss is capable of doing - is an example of it being harnessed, and in EU content is much larger. A few dark templar nearly ripped apart their planet by simply using their power incorrectly, leading to the dark templar.

Raszagal was a very old, but still fit, dark templar and the most powerful of her order. Kerrigan was capable of mind-rape from many, many, many light years away.

The gravemind, on the other hand, had an issue with an AI brain - which, being based on a human, should not be considered as advanced as a protoss brain, given they're considered in-canon to have higher cognitive capabilities, and more complex brains in general - and John nearby. If the Gravemind was telepathically powerful, it'd have been capable of turning his brain to goo with that level of proximity.

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-29 16:55:37 +0000 UTC]

Yes almost as strong. Actually Master Chief's canon armor is basically impervious to the standard ballistics weapons in Halo, also the C-14 Rifle is said to penetrate 2 inches of steel but MC's armor plating is made of a multi-layered alloy stronger than halo Titanium A armor(much stronger than steel). And that's just his Armor plating including his shielding makes ballistic from the C-14 even laughable. However the C-14 is much... Much Stronger than the Halo AR, I don't know about the Halo 4 AR we haven't gotten the math for it yet. However with the inclusion of Forerunner Weapons into his arsenal I think he'll do fine against SC 2 Marines. His suit is Fine against a huge amount of radiation. Did you know that most Covenant weapon's give off a lot of radiation. And the flood have gotten through Forerunner suits at least 6 times stronger than that, they'll do fine against SC 2 marines. The Forerunner Started making weapons tailored to the Flood and still being strong enough to cut through most material like Steel and Titanium A like butter. The Flood still won with ease.
Wow I actually didn't know that... But your not helping your case. Even at a micro levels you should never eat the Flood they'll just infest from the inside out. The Flood super cell destroys the cells in the creatures body and replaces them. The Flood super cell is based on the Creature in the 198 2 film The Thing. That's actually how the Flood started, creatures that were infested were eaten by other creatures and they became infested, after some amount of time they eventually became the Flood we know today.
During the Forerunner Flood war the Flood were taking solar systems all over the galaxy in less than a day. The only reason the Forerunners lasted so long was because they kept Info on there worlds, fleets, and halo rings beyond the rim of the Galaxy from those in the galaxy. However this also meant that those in the Galaxy were martyrs doing nothing more but biding time.
The Fun part about the Flood is that they always send in billions and can come out with trillions. The thing about flood pure forms is that they don't have to be grown they simply form through flood biomass and it happens in similar speeds to the swarmling zerglings. also as soon at they make sustainable hive on the planet they'll start throwing out pure forms like automatic fire. There's a reason the Flood is called the Flood....

Well I was talking about of hundreds of thousands of ships that can do much more damage than a super nova in one shot combining... Thats a little more than just one nova to the face... The only thing I can think of that could take that is the Robot suit from Gurren Lagann because it becomes bigger than our galaxy... The Flood are able to generate Skip Space without a slip space driver but that might be because the Precursor are the ones that created slip space and the Flood are what the Precursors evolved in too. Well I don't know if evolve is the right word but whatever. Well the Floods overriding goal is to find those who are worthy of up holding the Mantel and if they can't be found then they restart the galaxy....

I never Said that Protoss minds were nothing I said the AIs like Mendicant Bias was made to confront the Gravemind not only in battle with physical Armies but also battle of intelligence and psionic ability. The Gravemind was never even trying to destroy Bias just hold him back and corrupt him, making him go rampant, and turn on his creators. The Gravemind never even needed to be near him. Also being able to destroy a normal human with psionic power doesn't mean you can do the same with a Spartan their mind have been harden from the augmentation. Not only that but because of the Neural Interlace you also have to get past the suit. Also the Gravemind wasn't try to ever kill MCs mind because then he wouldn't be able to find what Cortana was hiding. The Gravemind has no reason to destroy worlds. Doing so would deny him the intelligence on the planet. He had no issue with them he corrupted Cortana in less than a day and corrupted Mendicant Bias without being near him not even in the same solar system. You don't seem to understand, the Gravemind would never destroy a beings mind because he would lose the intelligence he would gain from it.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-29 20:07:49 +0000 UTC]

The Anti-rad tech from Terran marines allows them to be quite comfortable next to a tactical nuclear explosion, and the weapons they've stopped have better feats. The Hydralisks's barb, for instance, go through several centimeters of Neo-steel even at their maximum possible range, which is roughly half a kilometer, so they've got nastier feats due to being effective at that range alone. Regular terran marine armor can take a shotgun point-blank and the shots actually simply bounce off, and that's not even noting the top running speed and other super-human capabilities the suit grants, which is rather much higher than humans, and the servo's which automatically reconfigure to allow the maximum amount of strength and adaptability necessary in combat... there's a fair bit to it more than the spartan suit, particularly if the marine ever got into hand-to-hand. It's also worth noting there's at least one point where a Marine suit takes an explosive point-blank and just tanks the whole hit. Chief's armor's never once done well with explosives, let alone his shielding.

Meanwhile, the marine's literally make every single non-gauss weapon utterly useless in proper use against them, because munitions not accelerated that fast at the infantryman level can't pierce the suit. 

Infest from the inside out? You're aware that I mean "eat" in the sense they're just ripped apart at the microsopic level, right? as in, there's nothing left afterwards. The flood would be disassembled pretty damn close to the atomic level. It's not going to be infesting if a full cell isn't intact.

Tenchi muyo's actually got a couple guys capable of galaxy-busting, if I recall correctly, so that's not too impressive. There's a huge gap, even at that point, between a solar system buster and a galaxy buster simply due to the overall size of the universe.

The spartan's tech IS impressive and would help against psychic intrusion, but overall it's not got better feats than the average terran ghost, which the SC lore repeatedly drills into you is always going to be weaker in psychic ability than even an infirm protoss. Now, consider the fact that even average Terran ghosts are capable of breaking Dozens of weaker minds like jelly in a few seconds when they're using full-strength, and the fact that the protoss are powerful enough to rip up a good portion of a planet with psionic strength alone, and I'm going to go ahead and give it to the 'toss. 1 guy with back-up does not = anywhere close to a protoss, let alone Raszagal, who was one of the ones making those original storms. And she had millions of years to get stronger since, too....

The main issue is, the high-tiers of the Halo universe are Ancient humans, and Forerunners, neither of which are above human intelligence or complexity(unless I'm reading wrong and there's more to the current evolution than I realized). The Koprulu sector terran have been undergoing evolution for some time.

there's also the, very large, issue that John is even able to make headway against their combat forms. Lock John in a room with one small group of Zerg, on the other hand, the zerg are going to kill him. that's actually a big issue is, not only do Zerg have no issue making billions and trillions of their own, not only do they infest as many worlds as they damn well please in absolutely no time, and not only are they actually properly developed for war, unlike most of those pure forms, but their actual combat capabilities are far above that of any of those flood forms you linked. Heck, ultralisks alone would be capable of destroying hundreds of them per slice if we're using the actual size variants. while hundreds isn't necessarily impressive, it is when you have at least hundreds of millions of ultralisk just on casual stand-by. A flood super-cell is imposing, but it's only really there at a cellular level, which means that the Zerg have many means and many creatures at that level of small to kill them off. at which point you've got the perfect way to look at their code from the remains....

And again, their carapace is hard as shit, which means the flood would need some very heavy-duty stuff to actually kill the zerg. The average Zergling, by itself, takes gauss hits to cause significant damage to, and moreover, there's at least one instance of a marine needing several clips to take one out when it was charging. 

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-30 00:43:56 +0000 UTC]

Well as far as I know there haven't been an Spartans stupid enough to find out how the suit would do near a Nuke. Yeah and in cut scenes those barbs go through Marine armor like butter but I'm guessing that not canon... And a Spartan in Mark 5 stood in front of a light anti air gun just to just watch the the anti armor rounds bounce of him. An SC marines are nowhere near as fast as Spartans. They can run over 60 mph, the highest speed I know of is MC he ran 65 mph however it's very possible they can run faster. Spartan have been able to use vehicles as Melee and throwing weapons. A spartan chucked a 1000 pound drop pod like a baseball. Another Use an 800 pound mongoose as like a Baseball bat to kill grunts till nothing but the guard was left cus she didn't see any other use for it. There are others but I can't think of any right now. Well their marine suit are more like robotic suits than body armor. Spartan suits are more like body armor that makes the users body stronger and faster while a SC Marine suits do all the work. The earlier MJOLNIR suits were more like that. Spartans Have taken many Explosions and were fine. MC took the blast of an anti tank Air to land missile that blow up 6 feet from him. It only took out his shield but his suit was fine. Those missiles are made to take out Scorpion Tank in 2 or less shots. Spartans have taken Fuel Rod shots to the chest and their shields were still active after. In one of the Comic a Spartan took multiple Grenades and didn't even flinch. They do fine with explosives. And anything that's not an armor piercing sniper(4 shot can't even get through shields), Gauss Cannon/sniper(much more powerful than the C-14), or rockets won't do shit to MJOLNIR. Also this doesn't matter because even if their suit were 2x stronger, which they're not, Forerunner suits can get up to 9x stronger the least strongest that they would wear were 6x stronger. 
Ah that's what you meant, sorry. 
Even so unless they have would need a perfect immune system like The Aliens and the Ghost form of Metroids, those are the only being that I know of that the Flood would have trouble converting, they will get will get infested. Did you ever see the movie The Thing? What it did was transform into one of the survivors and acted just like them so no one would suspect it. That's what the Flood super cell do change to be undetectable by the creatures immune system. And unless their insides are made of an acid or plasma like substance it ant gonna do shit. And even if they can fight off the spores in the atmosphere there's little they can do against the infection forms. Pure forms can birth as many as they want on the battlefield. Singular zergs will get swarmed no Flooded with them and if just one gets in their mouth it's over. The tendrils will attach to the creatures nervous system and they'll be the Gravemind's. 
Regardless. The Forerunners were powerful. 
Ok, the Protoss have good psionic abilities but can they match a Compound Mind? No.
Well there's not much we have to go off of. We know that the Humans tech was comparable to the Forerunner's if not superior, We know they could live for at least 1000 years, We know they were much taller than we are now, and we know they had Psionic abilities to the point that when they talked they talked both through their mouths and their minds(like Protoss). But that's about it. Oh and we know that they were supposed to be bestowed the Mantel of Responsibility by the Precursors. No they had a much higher intelligence and their minds were much more complexed. Also there are 20 species of human although not all are known. Despite being numerous species, consisting not only of human species (such as neanderthals and 'homo sapiens'), but also numerous hominids, hominoids, and anthropoids, they all thought of themselves collectively as the "People". Does that help at all?
That depends on what Zerg and what weapons he has. Give him Forerunner weapons and he'll be able to take on most of the smaller zerg. Give him no weapons is say he could still taking on a few hydras and zergling because of his speed and strength. However lock him up in a room with an Ultralisk and there is little he can do besides run even if he had an Incineration Cannon. However put Kelly, Fred, and Linda in there with Incineration Cannons, Binary Rifles, and Scatter Shots... And well theirs little I see them not killing besides Karrigan... Hell even her but they would lose Fred and Kelly.
The same can be say for the Flood. In Halo 3 the flood infested a Covenant Cruiser(the smaller ones) crashed it on earth and with in 30 minutes had already spread through half the continent. Also in Halo 3 when they crashed High Charity( about the size of the Death Star give or take) on to the Ark(larger than Venus flattens out) and had over run it in an hour. Hell, when the Gravemind new Chief was going to activate Halo he got his forces to spread faster than wild fire on the ring. The Coolest and creepiest thing I think the Gravemind ever did was recreate Ancient Humans that had died long ago, human that were killed by the Forerunners not the Flood, and had them reside a Message in front of The Librarian while they began falling apart. I have no idea how he did that... 
I don't know we're your getting the "Flood skin isn't tough" shit but that's not true. In Halo 3 the 3 Pure form that we saw had skin tougher than most armor. Hell the Tank wouldn't died from anything that wasn't an explosive unless you shot its face.
Again they got through Forerunner Combat skin. You want a better understanding of what the flood can do watch this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=drRVdH…

However this doesn't present the Forerunners all that great but It shows the Flood pretty well. Watch part 2 if you can it shows the flood as well. You can Not Fight the Flood, You WILL Die.

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agentaaa In reply to Jarry1337 [2013-10-30 04:26:18 +0000 UTC]

No, it's quite canon the barbs can go through if they hit right, especially in concentration, but they also bounce off in canon as well, depending on how they hit. The Spartan armor, on the other hand, is also weakened by very weak ammunition due simply due to how rapid concentrated fire works, but that's due both to said rapid-fire and due to the fact it's easier to count high-end than low-end issues here.

Marines actually run roughly at the speed of a car according to the book "into darkness" due to how the servos are made, as well as being able to survive falls of several dozen feet without either the suit or the wearer feeling the impact. 

The best examples of protoss were able to match the overmind for psionic power, which is a mind made up both of high-level cerebrates and a being capable of individually understanding and controlling a uncountable amount of life.

Flood skin is tough, I never doubted that, but it's hurt by UNSC weapons which by nature aren't as good as Terran weapons. You can give me an example of "explosives don't hurt" and that's fair.

Ultralisks, however, have monomolecular scythe blades that cut through heavy base defenses like rubber.

While we're sharing youtube links:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomwpJ…

Skip to 1:03 of this video.

That's a tank. A very powerful tank made of nano-steel that fires dual 90mm plasma cannons. Later on in the conflict the ultralisks show that unless the fire is concentrated, even the 180 shock cannons that utilize Superheated tungsten in their explosions. to quote:

Most Zerg stuff above about Hydralisk level - and even hydralisk spines can puncture tank armor - is very capable of being explosive-class. The glave wurms are actually life-forms that rapidly and explosively degrade, so that's outright explosive weaponry, the Scourge is an explosion capable of breaking starship plating,

Of all metals in pure form, tungsten has the highest melting point  (3,422 °C , 6,192 °F ), lowest vapor pressure  (at temperatures above 1,650 °C, 3,000 °F ) and the highest tensile strength .[9]  Tungsten has the lowest coefficient of thermal expansion  of any pure metal. The low thermal expansion and high melting point and tensile strength  of tungsten originate from strong covalent bonds  formed between tungsten atoms by the 5d electrons.[10]  Alloying small quantities of tungsten with steel  greatly increases its toughness .[4]

The ultralisk's capable of tanking any hit from something below thor level, though I'll submit a zergling will die to a rocket, and most of the armored parts of a hydralisk deal with hypersonic rounds, which is far more than most infantry weapons can do in the hands of the UNSC or the covenant.  Leviathans are considered to be even larger and more powerful than motherships, which are the beings responsible for planet-cracking, so they should at least be scalable to that - they're also capable of causing "bio-stasis" which should be very effective.

A compound mind means nothing if it ain't got the feats to back it up - and from what I can tell the protoss are at the least, if not superior to the compound mind, superior to their individual minds given what Ulrezaj was capable of after just combining 7 protoss together.

The zerg are capable of modifying base DNA on the fly and have both a powerful AND adaptive immune system, the only Viruses capable of harming the zerg are the ones made by the defiler and that's due to the fact they use not Cells or anything, but potent bio-chemicals or micro-organisms that simply chew away things.

It is true that SC marine suits do all the work - a regular human does not do much without a suit, but they allow them to take walls and buildings falling on top of them, increase their strength and speed, use servo-technology to situationally maximize said power, and have allowed marines to easily lift things for heavy construction that previously required heavy lifting equipment. It's true the suit does all the work, but then, that's an issue too - the Spartan suit requires heavy enhancement just for them to use effectively, a terran CMC-330 does not. Those are regular humans in there enhanced by nothing except possibly narcotics - hell, the suit has several bells and whistles a spartan suit does not, such as portable gravity, FULL NBC protection(and this isn't something that can be argued for by "super-cell" unless it's not a cellular organism, which hasn't been proven, this is a level of tech that's currently quantifiable by science as "full simply because we can filter at the cellular level to a limited extent even by this point in history".). structural support to work with a person's firing stance, Aural directional Enhancers, full life support, shoulder housed ammunition reload and sensor arrays, and in the case of the CMC-400, a full communications array. It makes the Spartan suit's, not counting the AI's which ARE amazing, look like scrap in terms of utility at the least.

It's also notable that while the suit does require power, it's capable of running on internal recycling alone for a week's time.

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Jarry1337 In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-30 07:35:00 +0000 UTC]

There is no StarCraft book called "Into Darkness". MJOLNIR is nearly impervious to standard and small arms fire. MC as fallen from from orbit through Requiem's atmosphere and landed on rock with much of his ship falling on top if him.

There Overmind while being an extremely powerful being is still just one mind and need other Cerebrates to extend his control of the Zerg. The Gravemind is a Compound Mind, Billions or even trillion of minds combined to the same consensus. During the Flood-Foreunner War, when the Gravemind was a galaxy spanning network, it began assembling entire planetary ecosystems into enormous, highly complex structures referred to as 'Key Minds'. Each Key Mind was said to have easily matched a single Forerunner Metarch-level AI (By far the most powerful and intelligent grade of AI the Forerunners had developed and of which Mendicant Bias was an example) for strategic planning and raw computational power. He also Doesn't control The Flood he is the Flood. A Compound Mind consist of billion of these Key Minds. Each Key minds is also said to be equal to a standard Gravemind(A standard Gravemind beimg made of billions of minds). 

If you Play Halo 3 and start firing AR rounds into a flood Tank's skin you'll find that it does nothing you can shoot at it for hours an still nothing. Even plasma weapons did nothing. The only part that could be damaged was the spore face part. Now this Flood form is small comparison to all the other pure forms the Flood can make. However it is true that combat for made from Humans and the Covenant have weak skin but that's because its still the creature's skin.

Yes I have StarCraft 2 HOTS so I've seen that intro a few times. And i understand that the Ultralisk is powerful, How ever if you remember From my video The Flood flooded waves of flesh and testicles all much larger and strong than that whole swarm.  

The Flood Super Cell is often described as "thinking muscle", and closely resembles both neurons and glial cells in terms of its physical structure. The Flood have demonstrated on numerous occasions that they have the ability to arrange these cells to mimic any organ that may be needed. In addition to this ability, the Flood Super Cell has a wide repertoire of additional abilities, which culminates in the creation of a Gravemind and a fully-developed Flood hive.

An important capability essential to the Flood's survival is its ability to convert other life forms into more Flood cells, which can be used in a wide variety of ways. The Flood Super Cells capture and interface with the host's cells, which are quickly metabolized, broken down, analyzed, and reassembled into more Flood Cells that mirror the function of the target's cells. This process is rapid and continuous, with the end result being that the host's biomass is largely overtaken by the newly-generated Flood biomass.

When first inserted into a victim, primarily by the Infection Forms, the Flood cells are in an encapsulated "spore" state before they become active in the victim.

The Flood are fully capable of getting through their suits by normal means.

Spartans communicate through thought alone in battle thanks to the neural interlace. With allows them them to coordinate attacks as if they would one person. The Neural interlace also allow them to have reaction time fast enough to dodge bullets. In other words a coordinated attack by a squad of Spartan will always be more effective than SC Marine squads. 

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Arklyte84826 In reply to ??? [2013-09-24 15:35:53 +0000 UTC]

they both can infect other factions, but I really don't remember flood producing much of their own

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Lordawsomness In reply to Arklyte84826 [2014-08-18 02:01:52 +0000 UTC]

Ever played halo wars?

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Arklyte84826 In reply to Lordawsomness [2014-08-21 14:50:59 +0000 UTC]

nope, just watched a walkthrough. And your point is..?

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Lordawsomness In reply to Arklyte84826 [2014-08-23 04:57:22 +0000 UTC]

The flood were able to create massive structures out of their own flesh. As well as the creation of graveminds and keyminds.

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Arklyte84826 In reply to Lordawsomness [2014-08-28 21:45:04 +0000 UTC]

pure forms appear in much later stages and graveminds/keyminds definetly aren't one of them

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Nazgul34 In reply to ??? [2013-09-18 22:55:57 +0000 UTC]

zerg

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Overmind666 In reply to ??? [2013-09-07 03:47:13 +0000 UTC]

zerg

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cfakatsuki In reply to ??? [2013-08-30 14:05:28 +0000 UTC]

I'd be voting for the Zerg but I'm not sure if they can take the sheer numbers of the flood, one of the few forces in any universe that can essentially outnumber anyone but the Zerg hav better hero class units, Kerrigan alone can take whole armies

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agentaaa In reply to cfakatsuki [2013-10-24 19:15:59 +0000 UTC]

the Zerg are literally "without number" and produce millions of warriors in the space of a few hours, I don't think Flood can really match that.

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cfakatsuki In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-24 23:57:10 +0000 UTC]

The flood out numbered the rest of the universe at one point, they would out number the Zerg and Tyrannids combined

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agentaaa In reply to cfakatsuki [2013-10-25 03:18:10 +0000 UTC]

so did the Zerg - do, actually. 

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cfakatsuki In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-25 03:40:03 +0000 UTC]

Not really, the Zerg have indeed vast numbers but by no means have the entire universe surrounded, they don't even have the whole galaxy to them selves, the flood literally conquered every planet in the known and unknown universe and could only be stopped by a giant universal reset button

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agentaaa In reply to cfakatsuki [2013-10-25 04:07:51 +0000 UTC]

That's because their opponents are head and shoulders above the flood. Moreover, again, the flood needs hosts. Regular issues with the human Genome kept Sergeant Johnson from becoming a host, whereas going by the "few thousand from one in a few hours" example, one should scale that to making millions upon millions of forces. The flood, on the other hand, were stopped by much less.

The Zerg, on the other hand, were only "stopped" by a reset button on their leader, and all that served to do was make them stronger. Their opposition still exists because they allow it to exist due to a change of heart. No other reason.

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cfakatsuki In reply to agentaaa [2013-10-25 13:40:20 +0000 UTC]

the zerg can and are held back, the flood won, they already won once so the enemy had to reset to get another shot and that almost failed too, the flood can make a host out of anything sentient too a point, in the numbers game the flood are second to none

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agentaaa In reply to cfakatsuki [2013-10-25 22:08:45 +0000 UTC]

uhhhh... when? The Zerg were never successfully held back for very long, and the only way any sentient race was ever able to defeat them in combat in canon was using either planet-breaking weapons, too quickly for the billions of zerg flyers to react, or by killing one of their sources of power - the Cerebrates, the Overmind, or Kerrigan, none of which the flood'd be able to harm, given what exactly people had to do to harm said beings. 

And the Flood rely on other sentient beings to increase in numbers beyond those fragile head-crabs - the Zerg have no such restrictions.

And last I checked, it took one guy to fight off massive amounts of flood. Don't get me wrong - Master Chief is and always will be a super-humanly powerful dude, but looking at his tech in comparison to the average terran marine, he's actually not that high ahead - the Terran Gauss rifle fires 8mm bullets, but it does so at hypersonic speeds, making the weapon effectively an automatic rail-gun. 

And as far as the flood winning, the only reason the Zerg didn't win outright directly after the brood war - restated by the Zerg, Terran, and Protoss alive - was that Kerrigan more or less wanted to savor her power. The zerg by the time of the brood war were always very capable of militarily bull-dozing the Terrans and Protoss without issue. As a matter of fact, the expansion campaign's exactly about that fact - the Zerg utterly overrun the dominion without pause or issue, once they're again fully united, and the only thing that even makes them pause is the psychic dominator, which they defeat using the fewer but still VERY numerous primal zerg.

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Lordawsomness In reply to agentaaa [2014-08-18 02:15:46 +0000 UTC]

The flood don't need hosts, combat forms might, not the flood as a whole. The flood are precursers, gods basically. The more they know the more powerful they become(since the forerunner flood war, they basically know already). Love the user pic by the way.

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agentaaa In reply to Lordawsomness [2014-08-18 02:36:22 +0000 UTC]

Thanks. While the flood don't need hosts, however, generally that's the stronger stuff they have, however.

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Lordawsomness In reply to agentaaa [2014-08-23 05:21:07 +0000 UTC]

Think of it this way, Necromorphs were based off the flood, the Necromorphs final evolutionary stage is a brethren moon. What is the flood equivalent of a brethren moon, a Keymind, except keyminds are for more powerful and not even the final stage(most likely the final stage is being returned to precursor form). Keyminds were the first step back into the flood's god hood. They figured out how to wield the star roads and weaponize them. The star roads basically were a indestructible galactic steam roller capable destroying(and I mean destroy, like crush things into oblivion) anything in their way. The Keyminds can also make as many star roads as they want once born.

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agentaaa In reply to Lordawsomness [2014-08-25 00:27:00 +0000 UTC]

That's a no-limits fallacy, but going to point out that at most that's SS level and that the idea of the flood getting to that stage is... a little generous. To say nothing of infestation being a problem.

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