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ShanahaT — Why the Archie Sonic reboot failed?
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Published: 2018-08-15 01:51:56 +0000 UTC; Views: 8916; Favourites: 62; Downloads: 39
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yep this is part 2.Man, I'm starting to feel like Alex Jones at this point.
It's only a matter of time until I start yelling with my shirt off about writers that turn the frogs gay.
But yes, after doing lots of research on these oh-so-lethal Sega mandates all summer long.
With some help by Lance Jerkoff and especially Alex Hedgefox ( I'd like to thank you guys for the help by the way)
I have finally covered as much research as I could on what many claim to be the other biggest thing that killed Archie Sonic.
The Sega mandates that were forced on the comic as a result of the Penders lawsuit.
Apparently they had enough creative freedom to make a video game character from Japan (Wendy Witch Heart) related to a Satam character (Nagus) and it also looks like that other factions that work for Sega were allowed to do the exact same stuff that Ian and the rest of the Archie staff claimed they were not allowed to do.
and while they did go out of their way to make it clear that Sonic's crying in issue 166 wasn't excessive, They didn't go out of their way to make it clear that Uncle chuck in the reboot wasn't Sonic's relative and that the "uncle to many" thing wasn't referring to the readers.
Not only that, but it looks like the mandates that where claimed to be a huge bother seemed to always be there even before the Reboot, and even before Ian Flynn arrived.
What could this mean?
...and yes I might change this description at a later date.
The Archie Sonic series is copyright Sega and Archie
Related content
Comments: 166
- I get the confusion, but Captain Metal is still another Metal Sonic regardless and it is actually not clear if Neo Metal Sonic is the same one. Sega would have fixed that if it wasn't.
- The "Uncle to many" thing is a vague statement in of it self, For we know those statements could have been referring to the audience (that's what I thought when I started reading the re-bot comics). Plus they still acted like they were related. Even if this wasn't meant to be the case, Sega would have stepped in and made it clear that they were not related by having Uncle chuck say something like "You're acting as if we're related or something.". (just like what they did with that crying scene).
Also, they DO care for Black Doom. They had a mandate on him saying that he shouldn't be resurrected during the pre-reboot years.
- I know the social media page acts silly. But if Sega wanted to burry the whole Mobius thing, this mandate would have applied to the social media team too.
- the real problem with this is that they have Sonic characters remembering what caused the new universe. Even those who were no present during the crossover. Especially since they bring up what happened in the previous the old universe constantly in that crossover.
- That's not what Flynn told us. Ian Flynn made it clear in interviews that they we're not allowed to show ANYTHING implying that the characters have aged, nor were they allowed to use the classic forms as their younger forms, I have the post shown there.
Yet they were doing that as soon as 2014. Flynn lied to us to the strongest degree on this one.
- Last time? No. The point here is that people claimed that Sonic would never loose at all. Yes he climbed back up in those arcs I bring up, and I remember looking up that Sega did have input on what happened in all three of them. But this shows that even during the reboot he was still capable of loosing the same way he would loose in the old universe.
- Sega acknowledged Archie Sonic as a sub-series too. Ian Flynn was the one who called it an advertisement for the games.
- The so-called mandate claims "Regardless of story context", meaning no matter what the occasion.
- yea, but the point of this is that Sega was fine with Sonic sheading tears of Joy and screaming in sorrowful agony.
Meaning that they did not double down on this mandate at all. It stayed the same as is.
- The point here is that Sega (even in Japan) doesn't have an agenda against Sonic's western continuity like everyone out there claims. If anything, It seems more like people on the Archie/ IDW Sonic staff are the ones with a crusade here.
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- Its a loophole, its another Metal Sonic from another dimension. The mandate is most likely referring that Eggman can't just do another similar Metal Sonic model to replace the old one. In the same way, it could be applied to the other characters too, but they can't be mass produced like a robot, having another from another dimension is fair game.
- You have a point.
- They probably don't care about burring it but mostly because of not wanting to use the term moving forward. The Social Media can still do mistakes.
- Archie!Sonic is basically dead, replaced by another Sonic from another dimension that got some of Archie!Sonic's memories, the current Sonic only have a full grasp of what caused the reboot because it happened in another universe, not the same Archie universe of before. Its another loophole as Ian Flynn is not referencing the old Archie universe with this, but another one, not to mention, considering this was the excuse they go for the reboot, then its expected that they had to bring it up to explain things. Making another crossover were Megaman and Sonic meet again would be repeating what the audience already saw.
- We didn't see anything that implied that they aged, they only used the old Classic designs because that's exactly how SEGA handled the characters around the same time. We are not seeing them physically growing, neither did we have seen them as babies, kids or adults, only on the Classic design on a small flashback.
- Just because the mandate didn't change anything, in the long run, didn't mean that it was not applied, it just that nothing forced it to take action because they were not trying to make stories of Sonic losing before or after.
- Its not like if SEGA put effort into treating it as such as it never got any promotion as a brand new sub-series in the same fashion as they did with Boom. Maybe they do see it as a subseries but on a much lower priority to promote the brand. After all, they did request the old staff to make an Adventure 1 adaptation despite the story not fitting at all with the lore that was previously established, resulting in a mess.
- There has not been a Shadow wearing a Hawaiian shirt or something like that. Only a bracelet that its directly from the ending of the same story is adapting in the very last panels. If you had other examples than you would have a point, but I think you are exaggerating the implication of the demands.
- A few tears of joy in like 1 panel is not like seeing Sonic on a state of depressing drinking beer in a bar. Again, you are probably exaggerating the demands.
- You are most likely right, but that doesn't mean they care about protecting it. They acknowledge it as part of Sonic's history but its no longer their focus moving forward, they have basically left it at the hands and mercy of the Archie/IDW staff. And honestly, considering how old the western continuity is, the current staff is probably the only ones that work in the comic industry who care about it, even if it's little.
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-well the fact that it is not very specific proves that something is fishy about this mandate.
- good
- No, the social media team has Sega executives that overlook what they do too.
- The wave that altered the world in the first place is being remembered by Sonic characters. Something is not right with that. If it was only Megaman characters remembering this stuff then I wouldn't have a concern bout this.
- Yes we did. These constant and in-depth flash backs with the characters memories in their classic designs prove that they have aged. How are you not seeing this? (also look at how Champions starts)
- I already made it clear, Sonic's failure in the beginning of this arc is no different from his failing in the beginning of Eggman Empire and Endgame. Sonic climbing back up may have always been a rule, but it proves that Sega did not double down on this mandate.
- Sega gave Archie Sonic a memorabilia in both Mega Collections (even the Japanese version), a shout out on the Japanese twitter, and they promoted new issues and graphic novels on their social media pages like Facebook (even after the reboot). They did treat it like a subseries.
- If Neo Metal Sonic really is the same one Eggman has been controlling, then he counts too.
-No i'm not, I'm showing that the demands for Sonic's emotions being checked after the lawsuit were at the exact same level Sega wanted it to be before the lawsuit. They did not double down on this one either.
- They probably don't really know what has been happening behind the scenes. But there are other options out there other then Ian Flynn and John Grey. IDW just needs to put fourth an effort to find them.
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- I think its specific enough, otherwise the same mandates would also apply to the other organic characters, however, they can't be mass produced.
- I think they already give more freedom to the social media team, that said its the only time they used the term mobius was for a meme, not something a serious promotion content.
- They only remember the events of the wave that happened in the other universe that is a basically a replica of the games, which is the one that they fully reference all the time when they do callbacks of the games, the wave happened in that universe and very likely that they did the genesis wave with this is mind. The Archie universe has been left untouched.
- I get your point, but perhaps using the Classic designs is the only exception because that's exactly what SEGA themselves did with Generations. If you had other examples that do not use the Classic designs in the same fashion that SEGA did, I would agree with your point.
- And both are also no different to how games like Forces and Unleashed handle it. By losing they most likely mean something bigger, like the very conclusion of an arc being about Sonic losing.
- A low priority sub-series as it never got things like their own toys or something like that, Sonic Boom, not only did it got toys and more but also got a comic made by the same Archie staff. So Boom is definitely a high-priority sub-series and they treated the Boom comics in the same way they treated the main Archie comics. Just because they give them shout outs doesn't really mean much as they are supposed to announce them, the Archie comics do money for them after all.
- Neo Metal Sonic is a modified Metal Sonic that SEGA themselves established, it's not different to something like Super Sonic, this is not like if Archie decided to give Metal Sonic a new model.
- Maybe because Sonic was being written in-character in both scenarios? Part of his character is to be emotionally strong and showing some tears is really no issue, the storyboard is an example that they had to tone down the crying a lot in the final version.
- They probably don't know and they probably don't care either. Only time will tell.
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- Neo Metal Sonic never called himself Neo Metal Sonic in Heroes, He just called himself Metal Sonic (or "The Real Sonic")
The Neo Metal Sonic name was never established by Sega Themselves.
Also, By saying "Neo Metal Sonic is a modified Metal Sonic... it's not different to something like Super Sonic, this is not like if Archie decided to give Metal Sonic a new model."
You have pretty much confirmed that I am right, It IS a different Metal Sonic.
- You THINK that they give more creative freedom to the Social media team, but you don't KNOW that they do.
I on the other know from Arron Webber's interviews that they Do abide by the same standards as Archie and IDW do.
And I also Know that Sonic Channel (the team that makes the Manga's) also abide by the same rules and standards.
- The super Genesis after the crossover wave was the reason the New Universe happened, and the Sonic characters remembered the old universe during said crossover. even if there was out of context stuff here, Sega would have fixed it.
- No it's not, The mandate states that classic forms were forbidden. And Ian Flynn said they he couldn't show ANYTHING implying the game characters had aged. Yet they flat out did it anyway.
And I already gave you another example of the characters aging, LOOK AT THE BEGINING OF CHAMPIONS! (issue 268)
- exactly, you have just proven I am right again.
- Yes they did, there were toys and other merch too. Just look up the Sally Acorn toys, or look up the Sonic Golden books and chapter books. and They also got high grade promotions in other magazines (like the first megaMan crossover) and they also had that memorabilia in Mega Collection.
- That still doesn't change the fact that Sega's views on how emotional Sonic should get stayed exactly the same after the lawsuit.
- again, they may not have an interest as of NOW, but they are clearly in the dark with this situation.
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And the Sonic Genesis arc was what caused the Mecha Sally era prior to the post SGW era.
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actually, the Mecha Sally thing was going to happen even with out Sonic Genesis.
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And the Sonic/Mega Man Worlds Collide would have never happened to cause the post SGW Sonic era?
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no, that was something that happened due to Capcom's greed and Ian willingly forcing it as a milestone.
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Couple more things while I’m at it:
-I have literally never heard that thing about the wardrobe changing ever until now, and if it was real, I highly doubt Sega would go as far as to not allow a one-off costume change that’s purely incidental (I doubt Sega would give two shits that Tails and Eggman are wearing sweaters on a single variant cover).
-Those post-reboot expressions of emotion are excessive? Really? Dude, excessive displays of emotion are Sonic curling up into an emotional crying heap on the 155 cover, or anguishly yelling “NOOOOOOOO” after his dad is nearly killed by the Tommy duplicate (136). Shedding a single tear while keeping your composure is not even remotely “excessive”.
-The “Sonic can’t lose” thing: first off, even if the 1997 example wasn’t moot due to being before Sega started giving a shit, Sonic worked his way back up from in three issues and ultimately won. The same goes for the 2007 and 2016 ones.
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- It says, regardless of the story context. Meaning no what the occasion, No change of out-fit.
But you are right, they would not restrict the characters from changing out fits. Because the restriction never existed.
- Sonic was not a crying mess on that cover, it's not that different from what I am showing you.
Even then, The point of that is to show that Sega always had input on Sonic's emotions long before the lawsuit.
And after said lawsuit, Sega didn't grow more strict on his portrayal at all. It stayed the same.
-Everyone kept saying that because of this mandate, we would never get a shocking issue were Sonic losses. Like Endgame or The destruction of Knothole arcs (including Ian Flynn himself). But Panic in the Sky starts exactly how those arcs started, With Sonic completely failing.
Yeah he eventually works his way back up, but it still applies since this was always the case.
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Are you sure you’re not taking the policy a bit too literally? Like, I’m pretty certain Sega would very much object if Ian suddenly turned aroud and said “you know what, I’m gonna make Sonic wear green sneakers from now on, just because” because perminantly changing a characters outfit would definitely be something they’re realistically against. Not incidental costume changes that occur in one story or for a few panels or a fucking variant cover.
“Sonic isn’t a crying mess on that cover”
archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Arc…
Pffft, lol yeah, of course he’s not. Slumped to the floor, his head buried in his arms? He couldn’t be anymore composed, gotcha.
”the point of that is to show that Sega always had an imput on Sonic’s emotions pre-reboot”.
...and? I mean, that literally was never a secret. The whole reason that M25YL panel was altered was because Sonic was slipping too much into “emotional wreck” territory.
*stuff about Sonic losing*
First of all, Sega didn’t give a shit about what was going on in the comics in that era, and you know it. Second, Sonic is allowed to suffer setbacks. Hell, this is the first I’m hearing of Sonic being “unable to lose” in any capacity whatsoever, when the version I’ve always heard over the years is “Sonic is allowed to suffer short term losses as long as he bounces back shortly after.” Hell, Sega allowed 175 to happen under the condition that “Sonic would ultimately win in the following issue”, which he did.
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-It clearly says they are not allowed to change their wardrobe at all "Regardless of the story context".
-Yeah Sonic was sad on the cover, but he looks composed to me. It's not like he was balling and yelling like he was on the original panel of that issue Sega altered.
-Yes they did, Ken Penders was going to kill of Sally and Sega stopped him. This was due to fan backlash and the upcoming Sega world material. Even then that's not the point. The point is that while Sonic would climb back up eventually, He still lost. and that loss in issue 284 was no different from what happened in issues 175 and 47.
This proves that Sega's views on how sonic should be victorious hasn't changed.
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-You know what? I’m gonna go out on a limb ask: where does it say that? This post of yours is literally the first I’ve ever heard of such a rule, and neither the image nor the comment provides a source.
-I’d really, really, really hate to see what you consider an “emotional wreck” if that’s honestly your version of “composed”.
-Sure, Sega butted in every once in a while to say stuff like “promote this upcoming game” or “don’t do this to that character because we want to use them ourselves”. But when it came to actual quality control? Well, lets just say you have that to thank for the comic going to absolute hell in the early 2000’s.
-Sega’s policy on Sonic being victorious is not even remotely as strict as you’re making it out to be. Sega’s own material even has stuff where Sonic loses for a time but eventually bounces back. Remember when he got the living shit beaten out of him in episode 26 of Sonic X and was left to drown before Chris broke free and grabbed the emeralds? Or in Sonic 06 where he thought he failed to prevent Elise’s death? Or in Forces where he literally got captured and held prisoner for 6 months?
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I got these from the Sonic News Wiki.
sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Ken_Pende… (go to the lower portion for the list)
I already told what I consider an emotional wreck.
I already told you that what happens in these current issues are not so different from what happened in the past.
The only other mandates that stayed (aside form one exception) are the ones that were there before the lawsuit.
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You need to be more specific about where to look on that page.
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*bit about the memories of the old timeline fading*
...I don’t get it, what point are you trying to make with those panels?
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Theyre not supposed to remember the old world period.
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...and they don’t. What, are those panels supposed to be implying that they do? Because they really don’t.
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This would never happen in IDW Sonic...
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Eggman remembers what he did in the old universe before he set off the events of the MegaMan Crossover, which includes making contact with Dr. Wiley for the first time.
This professor guy seems to remember what caused the super Genesis wave that created the rebooted universe.
Sonic remembers it too, and his last sentence implies that he knows that he knows that he didn't fully succeed in restoring his world properly.
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*headdesk* If you actually read that first panel, you’d see that it’s confirming Worlds Collide and the events leading up to it also happened post-reboot, only with certain details being changed in the lead-up (the blue emerald slipped into Mega Man’s world after the events of Generations, and the scene where Eggman and Wily come into contact happens when Eggman is trapped in the white void ala Generations’ post-credits scene).
The “professor guy” is aware that the Super Genesis Wave caused some kind of space-time disturbance, but he doesn’t refer to the old universe being a thing.
Sonic says “I guess you managed to undo the Super Genesis Wave’s effect on your world. I did too.” Sonic would most definitely not be saying that from a pre-reboot perspective now would he (because from that perspective, no, he didn’t “undo” the effects). As far as he’s concerned, he restored the world back to normal with the only aftereffect being the shattered world. Nothing there indicates that he remembers the old timeline.
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-that makes no sense and you know it. Everyone knows that the events of Sonic Unleased is revisited when you play Generations.
And even then, what caused the Chaos emerald to go into another world was Sonic using chaos control. Destroying the Time Eater shouldn't do anything other then fix time. TIME. Not alter other dimensions.
-Because he is an unaffected character that knows how the world was altered, characters that are not Nicole are not supposed to know that.
-Sonic also says "Kinda" and then brings up how the world broke. Even if it's just a typo, Sega would have gone out of their way to fix that.
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-How do you know Unleashed occurred in the comic version of Generations? It could have been the 3DS that occurred for all you know. (Ian even once suggested Unleashed’s appearance in this version was from Sonic’s future rather than his past). And the Time Eater stuff was literally said to have affected time AND space. There’s no reason why the emerald couldn’t have slipped through the cracks after everything went back to normal.
-He knows a “distrurbance” happened. He doesn’t know exactly what it was. Just that the Genesis Portals lead back to a space/time disruption that happened 200 years ago.
-His line is “I did too. Kinda...broke the planet in the process though.” Note how they’re two different sentances. He’s saying he restored everything, then followed up with “I kinda broke the planet as a result”.
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-Because there was no comic version, just a promotion that lasted a few pages.
Even then, The 3Ds version is just an expansion on the console version anyway
since it's just an expansion. (and most people played the console version anyway).
The point is that Generations causing the crossover makes no sense. Especially since
traveling through space means that your traveling through the space of your reach.
Not reality and dimensions.
-But they show a flashback behind him showing that he knows the specifics.
-again, even if it's just bad grammar, Sega would have fixed that to make it more clear and less vague.
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Forgot this part:
-“Why does he give a knowing look and why is the flashback right behind him?”
Swiveling his eyes around to look at Silver implies he’s “hiding something” now?
And the flashback is right behind him because where the fucking hell do you expect it to go? A separate panel at the bottom of the page? xD
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-oh just look at him, he's smiling in a forced way while having his hand close to his mouth as if he were trying to think of something.
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Or maybe you’re once again refusing to accept that maybe you’ve interpreted something wrong?
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-“The 3DS version is just an expansion of the console version”. ...source please?
-“Travelling through space means travelling through the space of your reach.” What...the hell does that even mean? The time and space of Sonic’s world got distorted. When it got restored, an emerald slipped through the cracks and wound up outside of Sonic’s dimension. I don’t see how that makes any less sense than the pre-SGW version where it slipped through when the first Genesis Wave was reversed.
-The scene is just there to backup his point/reaffirm to the reader that that is what he’s talking about. He’s not remembering it himself.
-That’s your problem. I thought it was perfectly obvious.
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- seriously? It has the same damn story. and the comic was not specific on what version they were talking about anyway.
Most people played the console version, and that's the version most people are familiar with.
If they were talking about the 3DS version, they would have said so.
Do YOU have a source that confirms they were specifically referring to the 3DS version aside from that there were no Unleashed levels in it?
- look here's the definition of space
"the dimensions of height, depth, and width within which all things exist and move. a continuous area or expanse that is free, available, or unoccupied."
like a table took up much of the space.
Sonic used chaos control and Eggman's device was reality altering.
It's implied in that when Sonic used chaos control to undo Eggman's new reality he used it to get rid of the emerald (somehow) just like how he had time write the "hi Sal" line.
All destroying the Time eater did was undo the Time screwups. nothing more. Besides, Eggman's device didn't use chaos emeralds anyway. So the whole Generations thing still makes no sense.
- Then why does he have that look on his face that implies he's hiding something, plus the image that is directly behind him while he's talking?
- My problem? Me saying that it's possibly bad grammar is a problem?
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-No I don’t have a source. That’s my interpretation. I’m using what little info we have in the comic to draw my own conclusion (the 3DS version being the canon one is a possibility, just as it’s also possible a version of the console version that excluded Unleashed is a possibility). See, that’s a thing that most rational fans do: they draw their own interpretations from the little info on display, and when something comes along to condridict their interpretation, they accept it and rethink it. Whereas you just call “PLOTHOLE” because it goes against your headcanon. It’s like somebody believing before Generations that Secret Rings wasn’t canon to the games, and then screaming that Sonic’s mention of it in Gens is a ”plothole” rather than going “huh, it is canon, go figure.”
-*explination of time and space* ...and your point is?
-Yes. It is. Because it isn’t. [SENTENCE BEGIN]I restored the world[/SENTENCE END] [SENTENCE BEGIN]Kinda...broke the planet in the process[/SENTENCE END] The “Kinda...” is attached to the “broke the planet in the process”. How are you not getting this?
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-I don't have a head canon, I'm observing what is in front of me and it makes no sense. Look, they were not giving specifics on Generations or weather or not there was a different version in the first place.
Hell, why make the connection to begin with? Why not just Have Sonic and Megaman meet for the first time but in a different way?
It would have made more sense anyway.
- Traveling through Space does not mean traveling to a different reality. It means your traveling to a different position.
- The "Broke" part is capitalized as if there was a new sentence starting. Again, it could just be bad grammar (Ian Flynn's grammar has a history of being pretty bad).
But regardless if it was or wasn't, Sega would have stepped in and forced that line to be more specific to avoid confusion.
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-The emerald slipped out of Sonic’s reality and into another. Generations in comic obviously didn’t happen 100% as it did in game. What is so difficult to understand about these mind-numingly simple concepts?
-Either way, there was clearly some dimensional disruption involved too because otherwise Crisis City wouldn’t be there.
-“The broke part is capitilzed”
...
...
...
...
...
...EVERY LETTER IN THE SENTENCE IS CAPITALISED YOU BLOODY IDIOT 8D
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-because it makes no sense, how does a chaos emerald just slip into another dimension?
Especially after destroying a TIME machine in Generations that didn't use chaos emeralds.
It was a stretch in Genesis too, but at least it revolved around a machine that altered dimensions that ran on a Chaos Emerald.
-no there wasn't, it was just a simple Time crisis.
Crisis city was erased from time completely, It made no sense in Generations either.
-Exactly, it may just be bad Grammar. And Sega would have gone into fix that to make it more clear.
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Okay I’m bored now.
My point is: those panels aren’t alluding to the old timeline. Eggman and Wily’s meeting happened in the new timeline in the aftermath of Generations. It may not make sense to you, but it’s still established canon. Von Schlemmer didn’t magically have memories of an event he wasn’t around to witness. The fact you interpreted it that way is your problem. The grammer in the last panel was absolutely fine. You misreading it is, again, your problem.
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The website in the final panel wasnt from just a regular sega website, it was from a Japanese-exclusive 25th anniversary website: sonic.sega.jp/25th/
No localization period: www.sonicstadium.org/2016/03/j…
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How does Professor Von Shlemmer remember the old universe, cuz he didnt exist in the old universe
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Hi again with replying
1. Yeah, i don't really see sense in having a one singular Metal Sonic, i would have thought that some of them would have been destroyed. I thought that Captain metal was a metal Sonic that was lost in another dimension and that the Neo Metal Sonic was part of the new timeline (in a flashback).
2. Okay, i do agree with it the Uncle Chuck, though they did say he was an "uncle to all", i thought. Luckily the characters from SATAM were able to. Maybe Black Death was a clone. Like with Eclipse, i'd only call him brothers in the loosest sense. like he was a clone of Shadow's, with that logic you could also say the cloned Ripley from Alien Resurrection (horrible movie) was the daughter of the original Ripley
3. No argument there, i preferred Mobius too
4. Classic characters- Well, they only did show flashbacks to the games, and i suppose that all game events were canon. But i see your point.
I think Sonic Boom is different to the Sega mandates because it was in an entirely new direction, with new characters and setting and concepts, and wasn't based off the main games. (I personally woukld have liked to think of it as the Sonic team or whoever were testing the waters before it could be monopolized- its an alternate Sonic )
In regards to the last panel, i believed that once it appears in an official product, no matter what time it appeared, it would be set in stone in canon, unless there was something else in-story that changed it, like the Sonic Spinball.
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1. It was never established that Neo Metal Sonic was the same as the main one in the reboot, if it was then Sega would have made it clear that they were the same. And Captain Metal is still another Metal Sonic regardless.
2. they said "Uncle" to many (in those exact words), They could have been referring to the readers. Even if they were not, that's still a vage statement to make and Sega would have made it clear that this is the case by forcing a panel where Uncle Chuck says "why are you calling me uncle? You know we're not related". The fact that Sonic and Chuck still acted like they were related and Sonic was the only character calling him Uncle Chuck proves my statement further.
And Yes, Black Death is a creation by Doom, not a cloner. If he was a clone, he would have looked and acted exactly like Black Doom did.
3. ok then
4. Pay close attention to the post Ian Flynn made and then look at the two panels that were released that same year. He clearly said, Sega doesn't want anything implying that the game cast has aged. Yet we see still things implying that the game cast has aged.
5. It may be a different universe, but so is Archie Sonic. and Sonic Boom still abided by similar rules the Archie series followed.
6. SpinBall is still a promoted Sega product, that counts for something.
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1. o ok,
2. yeah, i admit that is a bit vague and confusing
3. i meant the name Mobius
4. Ok, i see your point now
5. oh, Didn't know that
6. Yeah, exactly. Looking at the wiki or Sonic, it even had a japanese cover, so i'd say that it was also exposed to the Japanese audience.
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Would Crystal Sonic count as a separate entity from Metal Sonic or just the main metal sonic being mind controlled by Naugus: vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ar…
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If it is the same Metal Sonic, then no.
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This isnt even all the mandates, you. Could do a part 2.5 covering the rest of the mandates.
But there are things wrong here.
1. Someone showed my friend rhodesianbadger that Ken Penders' echidnas were essentially recycled in the reboot as fish people, not only that but a flashback scene from spark of life was stolen from a pre-reboot//pre-160/pre-flynn story.
2. Fairly certain that Sonic×Perci was never confirmed as a relationship in Sonic Boom. However sonic as well as knuckles seem to have the hots for perci
3. I think chip's bracelet from Sonic Unleashed is excused from the design mandate seeing as how it was in an official game, but there is that nasty "regardless of context" part that makes things tricky
4. The first picture in the excessive emotions mandate where you see sonic crying in 30 years later is not a very good example cuz you included before sega meddled and made them cut it back, and even the after image sonic doesnt look upset, he looks more bored or tired but i guess thats personal nitpicking, but id just recommend using the after image. I personally wouldve gone with the image of tails bawling his eyes out after eggman shot A.D.A.M./Tommy Turtle
5. Aaron Webber's "everything is canon" tweet is a joke and not supposed to be taken seriously. You would've gone better using Naoto Oshima's quotes like the tweet of his saved copy of the satam master animation cel(scroll to the bottom of this for more on the master cel: www.sonicsatam.com/information… ) or the facebook screenshot of how Naoto Oshima said that he loves the american sonic
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1. I would do that, but with the exception of Razor being like Geoffrey, I cant seem to find any similarities to specific Echidna characters he made to get that across. and that scene stolen in Spark of Life was not originally written by Ken Penders. It was Tanya Del Rio.
2. I still think that picture should stay since Sonic was still confirmed to have the hots for Perci.
3. It was an official game, but it came out in 2008, I'm sure Sega doesn't care about how well that game is represented anymore.
And due to that "regardless of story context" line, still feel it should stay.
2. I showed the Sonic picture because it's a good example of how Sega was overlooking the production. The fact that Sonic still showed similar emotions after the lawsuit shows that this thing people bring up on how Sonic became emotionless is not true and it shows that Sega was ok with it.
3. I'll get rid of that tweet then, but I still need to find something that happened during the reboot era though. Oshuma wont cut it because he has not worked with Sega since 1999.
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Youll wanna reread the comment cuz i added more than 3 points:
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1. I could send you the live stream he was in cuz they talk about it. As for the stolen spark of life scene i feel it should still be mentioned cuuz its stolen content from pre-reboot which most definitely has to be a rule.
2. Fair enough
3. True point, but oshima is more than just a random sega employee though, he CREATED sonic, and he has worked on the 2016 mario and sonic olympic game as a superviser: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naoto_… , plus oshima posted this in 2017: twitter.com/NaotoOhshima/statu… so i think he gets a pass
P.s. I found the instance of sonic remembering old memories.
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Well I have seen the video with Dillan Thomas, I still can't point out which specific echidna's were ripped off.
I need specific echidna's that were made by Ken Penders.
and the mandate said, material by Ken Penders, I'm sure stuff by other writers isn't a big deal.
Well, I might consider his involvement with the 2016 Olympic games in a future post.
and I would like to see that time Sonic remembered the old universe though.
But not if it is from Countdown to Chaos though.
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Fair enough.
So he kinda still does work for sega -ish.
And here's sonic remembering shit: 2.bp.blogspot.com/_9sOisTEhNe8…
2.bp.blogspot.com/DYqYgHcVVV3A…
2.bp.blogspot.com/YItw5x4H2W_P…
2.bp.blogspot.com/3-sAb4zzcAc8…
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I don't think those count, because the stuff Sonic is remembering is after the second Genesis wave.
The reason Eggman counts is because He's remembering the stuff that happened before the second Genesis wave.
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Not really, cuz sonic is remembering the first sonic and megaman crossover, which was before the second genesis wave
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