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The-Devils-Corpse — DBR: Saiyan Transformations
#ape #ball #berserk #blue #broly #destruction #dragon #dragonballgt #dragonballz #god #goku #great #gt #instinct #legendary #oozaru #ozaru #rosé #rose #saiyajin #saiyan #saiyans #super #supersaiyan #trunks #ultra #vegeta #z #dragonballsuper #ultrainstinct
Published: 2012-09-26 23:39:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 179125; Favourites: 989; Downloads: 0
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Description
Notes:So, to start things off with this interpretation of the chart, most of the description is no longer on the deviation itself. The unfortunate truth is that this page became way, way too long because the DB franchise never stops adding transformations. There will inevitably be more Saiyan transformations on the horizon, too. They drive merchandise sales.
Anyway, you can now find all the information in this Google Doc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…
As always, there's no need to ask about whether I will be including a form or why I haven't added any potential new transformations to the chart. This document will likely be kept up to date with at least acknowledging new forms as they're revealed. However, I will still be waiting for them to fully debut in the their respective media (anime, manga, games, whatever) before deciding what I'm doing with them in regards to the project.
-*-*Disclaimer*-*-
The series of submissions labeled under the title of DB Redux are part of a fan rewrite of the official series. Anything that you see in the art or description that varies from the original manga or anime sources is most likely intentional. While I appreciate that you are taking the time to look at my gallery and notice these differences, I do not require a comment on what needs "correcting" because it wasn't "originally like that".
However, if you'd like to discuss these changes, or the project in general, you're welcome to join my DB Redux Discord server for the community members, an early look at finished & WIP character art and links to full battle power lists.
Thank you, and please enjoy!
Dragon Ball (Z, GT, etc.), copyright to Toriyama Akira, Shueisha, Toei Animation, etc.
No part of this gallery may be reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of The-Devils-Corpse
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Comments: 689
Dragon Ball Super, manga chapter 24.
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Have not read one page of the manga. Haven't had the time.
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It's based off my Bebi, not the original franchise Bebi.
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Seems like an arbitrary change to make.... but it's your remake!
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Internal consistency; the same way his fur will be white and armor will be gold instead of olive green.
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kinda have to now with the lssj because of the women not broly
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Kale doesn't mean I have to do anything. If they treat her transformation as the "Legendary Super Saiyan" form instead of something new, then I'll just treat her like I do Broli.
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Now that you renamed from "Super Saiyan Rage" to "False Super Saiyan God", i would like to see this form repurpose as a False Super Saiyan with Divine Ki, as he does get it, he doesn't utilize it properly, part of which he had rage, but not on False Super Saiyan level of rage.
I don't know, that's what i could think of.
Edit: I see, you're placing said False Super Saiyan God below Super Saiyan as a Mortal form, that works too and i can accept that.
At the same time, i could see said False Super Saiyan God as Trunks' answer to Goku's False Super Saiyan form, except it's far more powerful.
For now, this said form is nowhere near as powerful as the likes of Saiyan God forms, especially with Black's version of Saiyan God forms.
At best, False Super Saiyan God form that Trunks obtained won't do any good against Super Saiyan God Black and Zamasu anytime soon.
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Hey, umm lssj is going to become canon in the dbs anime, I'm pretty sure, caulifla is going to go lssj
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Kale should be the one using it. If it's introduced as the exact same form, same lore, etc as in the Broli movies and info from the guides about it, I'm just going to ignore it and treat her the same as I did Broli.
If it gets a new name, new expanded lore, and all that then I may reconsider using it. Maybe. Broli and his BUFF SS2/3/4 transformations will probably still work better for me with Graded forms though.
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Cool, I honestly didn't think you'd respond like that or even at all.
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I noticed you mentioned that Super Saiyan 4 allows a Saiyan to fight at their greatest potential, but you also gave it an x8000 multiplier (makes sense to me considering how badly 4ku pummelled super baby vegeta). Hypothetically, if a saiyan achieved the Saiyan or Super Saiyan God transfomation, would their new potential be taken into account if they also had Super Saiyan 4/Hitozaru?
The Wiki and the guides give the idea that Super Saiyan 4 is akin to Gohan's 'Potential Unleashed', and it makes me curious to know which form would actually be a manifestation of a Saiyan's full strength, if they had access to both Hitozaru and Super Saiyan God.
Or does Hitozaru have a fixed multiplier at all times?
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It's their greatest natural potential, anyway. God forms aren't something that be naturally reached in the project; you need divine help. However, that "potential" just means it's the natural form with the highest multiplier. The guides state a similar maximum potential line, making it sound like it draws out all their hidden power...but they said the same thing about SS3 in Daizenshuu 7 before SS4 debuted, and most of us know it was later given the x400 multiplier. So I don't think the statement is supposed to be taken literally and the form shouldn't be treated like an actual potential unlock technique.
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Let me get this straight, your trying to make Super Saiyan 4 weaker than Super Saiyan God which is not, I don't mean any offence dude but thats bull crap
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There's nothing in GT that suggests SS4 is a massive boost. And the only real comparison in the guidebooks is that the transformation might be on par with Vegetto during the Boo Arc (and that's after most fans assume base Goku has surpassed his SS3 self from Z, which shrinks the increase even further). Meanwhile, Beerus smashed the living hell out of Goku at Kaio's during Battle of Gods, and he later presumed that even fusing with Vegeta again wouldn't be enough to take on the Hakaishin. However, Super Saiyan God was way stronger than he thought Vegetto would be (and in Super's adaptation gained multiple power ups during the fight). The transformations have only gotten stronger since, too.
Thus, I don't see any interpretation where the bare bone facts support anything in GT surpassing that from Super. Though, you're welcome to hold whatever opinion you want.
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In case you've forgotten dude, that DBS takes place before the end of Z and Goku has become powerful enough to fight the reincarnation of Buu(who was just as strong but have less control of ki) without even going Super Saiyan and GT takes pace after with Goku still didnt need to go Super Saiyan on a trained Uub(who at that point became stronger than his past life before merging with Fat Buu) which means GT Goku in base form is much stronger DBS Super Saiyan God(at least in the start of the anime) and much stronger than that Saiyan Beyond God state, try getting those facts in your head dude
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GT and Super are not in the same continuity...
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Excuses, Excuses, Super Saiyan 4 might as well be "Full Potential Unleashed"
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Right... Which is why it's suggested to possibly be in Z!Vegetto's tier and always needs to be powered up by a handful of weaker Super Saiyan forms.
Honestly. You can think whatever you want for your head canon interpretation of the series. I don't care. But I'm done with the conversation from here on out.
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So in short, Super Saiyan 4 would be behind Saiyan God, or Super Saiyan God, and wouldn't use their power, with two reasons backing it:
1) Their "Divine" Ki is not naturally developed, so even if Super Saiyan 4/Hitozaru was a potential unleash, it can only unlock a Saiyan's natural ki which they were born with, not the full potential of the God ki they attained later in life
The only thing that really contradicts this is Vegeta in DBS Anime, where he trains himself to the point of turning his normal Super Saiyan into SSB, from which one could infer that he had the potential to become SSB from birth. And -possibly- the Manga, although the Manga doesn't cover RoF, and we don't know exactly how Goku or Vegeta attain SSB, other than that Goku had the Red God form, and through that he was able to attain Divine Ki. It's assumed by some that Vegeta went through the ritual and also got that form, but these are both moot in your DBR continuity since attaining Divine Ki is different from the main series.
2) Super Saiyan 4 may not actually be a 'Potential Unleash'. Super Saiyan 3 was considered as such once, and then it was given a base multiplier. Super Saiyan 4 also has conflicting sources that both give it a multiplier but then also call it a 'Potential Unleash'.
I get this explanation, I actually don't have a counter to it, and it wouldn't matter if I did. I was just curious about how the forms would work.
Kinda off topic, but I'm kinda sad seeing that SS4 will likely not make a return ever in modern DB, because to me, it felt unique in a way that SSB/Super Saiyan God doesn't. I like the idea of the characters (in the DBS Anime), training their Super Saiyan forms and (re)mastering them to the point of being able to tap into God ki, but Goku and Gohan, and presumably Trunks and Vegeta ALREADY mastered Super Saiyan waaaaay back in the Cell Saga, or in the case of Vegeta and Future Trunks, not long after. It felt weird that suddenly Super Saiyan was once again an unmastered form, and it felt lazy that the newest form was basically the fan made Super Saiyan 6 or whatever, but on Super Saiyan and not Super Saiyan 3. SS4 felt believable since it didn't seem likely that any saiyan could just attain the form, whereas the 'ritual' in DBS for SSG/Saiyan God just feels....off. 6 Pure Hearted Saiyans? Remember the last time something required a 'Pure Hearted Saiyan'? That was Super Saiyan. Now everyone is a Super Saiyan, and the 'Pure of Heart' requirement was dropped. It doesn't really have it's roots in the history/background of the Saiyans, atleast as far as we know (until DB Minus and recent materials decided to change how Saiyans acted), and it feels like any group of 6 Saiyans that just happened to hold hands could have done it if they were 'righteous' enough, by accident. In a way, Super Saiyan 4 seems more 'Legendary'/'Mythical', than Super Saiyan God, in that it can't be accomplished easily. The Super Saiyan, and Oozaru forms make sense to me, when you consider what the Saiyans are, and the Super Saiyan 4 form is bringing the concept full circle, combining the control and calm of a 'Human heart' with the rage of an Oozaru/Super Saiyan, turning it into the focused and directed fury that is Super Saiyan 4. It looked drastically different from the users normal form, and from what we know of Super Saiyans, but it fit with Saiyans being 'space ape warriors', and in terms of what it meant symbolically, it fit with the idea of Super Saiyan, and Oozaru. I don't really see that with SSG or SSB. The only new form I really felt at home with was Trunks' Super Saiyan Rage, which felt like a natural progression from Super Saiyan 2, rather than what we know as Super Saiyan 3. It actually felt as though there was finally a crossing point between the Lore of Super Saiyan, and divine ki.
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First off, where did you get the whole "Oh Super Saiyan Rage is the amalgamation of Super Saiyan and Divine Ki" idea from? Nothing, as you do realize that it'll be redundant since Super Saiyan with Divine Ki already filled that up.
Second, Super Saiyan Rage hits you right at home? Ha! As if that another golden form felt new, it technically ain't.
Third, this so-called "Super Saiyan 4", looked nothing more than an amalgam of Super Saiyan and Ozaru with blackness intact, not overly unique for me. Third, Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God was meant to be simple forms that had the stance of God with said Divine Ki.
I don't care about it's looks, i'd rather care about it's powers and abilities as showcased there as long as adds variety to it.
Besides, you're far obsessed to "uniqueness" like anyone else, as they can't tell the difference between "uniqueness" and "distinctiveness".
Divine forms at least add more variety to it and it's explained on how it goes, unlike Rage which it's so unexplained and lacking it's purpose other than just being, like i said, a transformation fodder, end of story.
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I never asked for your opinion, and frankly, I don't know why you felt it was necessary to attack me or try to debate a discussion I was having with TDC. I wasn't forcing him to see things my way, I was agreeing with his assessment of the forms' powers, and giving my own perspective on the different transformations, not to mention, this is his rendition of the Dragon Ball Story. I have no say in what he does. I also find it unnecessary to dignify your little tirade with a point by point breakdown, like you've done with my comment. I'd hardly need to retort to show you what an idiot you've made of yourself.
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I'm just being rather realistic, so excuse me for being harshly disagreeable for something.
But again, it's just me, i don't mean to "attack" you here.
I mean if you said it that way, then that's fine, i mean i'm not just talking about TDC's project in itself, i'm talking about how Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Rage handle.
It's amusing you said that i made an "idiot" for what i made of myself, on the contrary, I at least don't outright take this the wrong way, i'm just being rather realistic.
Besides, i'd rather wait and see about it.
I just want to get it done and over with and move on.
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Though I must ask why is Black's FSSJ yellow when the SSJ form is white?
Shouldn't Black's FSSJ be more of a white glow rather than a yellow?
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Only the hair becomes white; the aura remains yellow on the non-god forms. So Black's hair is still black, being tinted brown by an extremely dense yellow aura.
At least that's the current plan. This stupid thing is ever evolving.
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Changed my mind. I Bebi Vegeta would look better without the yellow aura, and changed the impure Super Saiyans to purple.
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Okay I see
But why doesn't Black have a SSJ4 or "Hitózaru" form?
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Read the notes.
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Okay I see thank you for answering
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So Bebi's Ōzaru form will be white just like the one shown here?I'd love to see one day an image of him like you did with Gogeta and Broli's Ōzaru transformations,if and when you'll have time obviously
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Fanart was already done of it a long time ago: pre06.deviantart.net/d711/th/p…
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Super Saiyan Rage seems to be a natural progression from Super Saiyan 2 then Super Saiyan 3 as it comes from great anger, compared to Super Saiyan 3 which is only obtainable from training. If anything Super Saiyan Rage is a true Super Saiyan 3 Because of this.
Another thought, Hitozaru is shown in GT to get a power-up from multiple Saiyans in a way similar to Saiyan God, theoretically this could mean a Hitozaru God transformation is possible. Hitozaru Gogeta is even seen with red hair.
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What happened to that odd middle form between SSJ and SSJ God? Or is that a TBD transformational gap lol
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That was where I had stuck Rage while waiting to decide what I was doing with it.
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This is fantastic, great work!! Completely slipped my mind that the concept of Goku Black is quite simpler to Bebi Vegeta lol. Now that does beg the question, and i would like to get your opinon, if Zamasu or Bebi were to steal the bodies of Goku and Vegeta respectfully after they achieved the Hitozaru transformation, would they be able to access it? Or would there corruption of the saiyan body cut off access? (This does include the possible chance of stealing the body in mid transformation)
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At least for me, it doesn't matter if they possess them before or after the transformation. It would still result in the same state of disconnect that interrupts the harmony required to achieve and maintain the form. So the Saiyan's body would either be prevented from transforming or forced to revert; whichever is relevant to the situation.
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Interesting, thanks for the opinion!
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Theoretically speaking of course
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Very nice rewamp of the chart, I like that you added Zamasu's version of each form. Also I like how you remade the Super Oozaru look. Keep up the good work
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Very nice, the connection with Bebi and Black's form is a nice touch.
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I like the whole impure Saiyan forms concept you have made to better explain why forms are different despite being the same person
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I just remembered... Grades change the hairstyle as "levels" do so why you draw their hairstyle exactly like regular SS's? I know wasn't noticeable in the anime because Toei's shitty drawing changes how Goku hair looks every minute but was pretty obvious in the manga.
s14.postimg.org/4dzaehzbl/SS_g…
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It was noticeable in the anime. I've just always chosen to ignore it. Everything stated about the grades says they aren't proper "transformations", the Saiyans are just manipulating their muscle mass with ki to inflate nerves or whatever. That's not a great reason to alter hair as well...so I don't. Makes my life easier.
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So do you think Grade 2 Vegeta is only physically stronger than SS Vegeta?
Also SS2 and SS3 aren't even proper transformations as well, Toriyama said are nothing more than "powered-up variations of Super Saiyan". I see no difference, I think of grades as a different way to power up the SS while "levels" are another one.
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No. The multipliers on this chart already suggest I don't. However the increase isn't really natural, it's forced.
Toriyama said a lot of things during the Battle of Gods promotion period. Some of which contradicted existing info and continues to still apply, some of which was applied and then contradicted by later "F"/Super info, and some of which was just outright ignored to begin with. I'm doing the latter and making a hard distinction. 1-2-3 are unique, sequential transformations only Saiyans can do. While the process of achieving the grades, even if there are differences in the details for them, could probably be accomplished by any race capable of ki manipulation.
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How can SS3 be a "really natural" form? Both ways follow the same pattern, upgrade the balanced SS form in exchange of some defect which become too much disadvantageous when you go to the "3" version. The hair change is stupid but is stupid whatever upgraded form you use.
Why do you think that? Cell had saiyan cells if you think he use an actual "grade" form and is the only one with a "musculated form" ever compared to Grades, while Freeza musculated state precisely comes from not control his ki properly (so its real ki controled form isn't supposed to look different as we see in FnF) and we know Turtle Hermit ki control isn't good either since he never trained with Popo or God.
I know when we are talking about Toriyama we must to ignore some things he said if we want a consistent story but I don't really see any problem with "Levels" being subforms as Grades are, but the opposite. I think is consistent with we see in the original manga and DBS ("3" versions being total failtures, "2" versions still usable", balanced forms being the right way to train, being still stuck in "SSB1" instead force the form again, etc).
Well... I think I'm just complaining about you having a different interpretation of Toriyama work from mine, sorry for that.
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