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The-Devils-Corpse — DBR: Saiyan Transformations
#ape #ball #berserk #blue #broly #destruction #dragon #dragonballgt #dragonballz #god #goku #great #gt #instinct #legendary #oozaru #ozaru #rosé #rose #saiyajin #saiyan #saiyans #super #supersaiyan #trunks #ultra #vegeta #z #dragonballsuper #ultrainstinct
Published: 2012-09-26 23:39:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 179128; Favourites: 989; Downloads: 0
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Description
Notes:So, to start things off with this interpretation of the chart, most of the description is no longer on the deviation itself. The unfortunate truth is that this page became way, way too long because the DB franchise never stops adding transformations. There will inevitably be more Saiyan transformations on the horizon, too. They drive merchandise sales.
Anyway, you can now find all the information in this Google Doc: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d…
As always, there's no need to ask about whether I will be including a form or why I haven't added any potential new transformations to the chart. This document will likely be kept up to date with at least acknowledging new forms as they're revealed. However, I will still be waiting for them to fully debut in the their respective media (anime, manga, games, whatever) before deciding what I'm doing with them in regards to the project.
-*-*Disclaimer*-*-
The series of submissions labeled under the title of DB Redux are part of a fan rewrite of the official series. Anything that you see in the art or description that varies from the original manga or anime sources is most likely intentional. While I appreciate that you are taking the time to look at my gallery and notice these differences, I do not require a comment on what needs "correcting" because it wasn't "originally like that".
However, if you'd like to discuss these changes, or the project in general, you're welcome to join my DB Redux Discord server for the community members, an early look at finished & WIP character art and links to full battle power lists.
Thank you, and please enjoy!
Dragon Ball (Z, GT, etc.), copyright to Toriyama Akira, Shueisha, Toei Animation, etc.
No part of this gallery may be reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of The-Devils-Corpse
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Comments: 689
I happen to think the same thing. I mean if Hitozaru is not a Super Saiyan transformation, it could have it's own "super" form. Though, I'm wondering what it's color would be....
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I'd say Orange since Hitozaru tends to be Red but I'd use gold anyway since its derived from Golden Ozaru.
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Maybe a yellowish orange?
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Yeah light orange
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So wait, you changed this again?
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It will continue to evolve with the series, and may even need to be updated again after whatever Trunks pulled in DBS 61.
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Could be a Pseudo Super Saiyan Blue or something; god ki might actually be contagious or something, so it's possible Trunks just entered a version of SSB without the actual ki control necessary to use it, so it just made his Super Saiyan state take on god ki characteristics. Honestly the best I've got right now. :/
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Awesome! This is really great.
But does Hitozaru mean? It's the alternate name you've given the GT Super Saiyan 4 of course, but what does the word itself mean?
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It's represented here as "zaru" because of some Japanese language rule or another, but saru means monkey/ape & hito means man/person. So, monkey-man, man-ape, etc.
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Ah, I see. Thanks for telling me. Although, I would have gone with Primal Super Saiyan instead. No offense, but it just sounds better to me than 'monkey-man' or 'man-ape'.
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It's not a "Super Saiyan" form, it's an evolution of the Ōzaru (big monkey) form.
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Isn't it a combination of Ozaru and Super Saiyan?
And I'm not criticizing your choice, just telling you what I would have done. Hitozaru does sound cool.
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I'm just explaining why I stuck with the Ōzaru naming scheme, since the form is an evolution of that branch.
Super Saiyan serves as a catalyst for the transformation, but is not the base of the form. It's like the difference between fruit punch made from literal juices and fruit punch Kool-aid. SS4/Kool-aid might be fruity like actual fruit punch/SS, but they aren't actually the same here. The base is still water/Ōzaru. If that makes any sense...
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I really wish this was all canon. It makes so much more sense. I typically hate Super Saiyan 4, but the way you're handling it I actually like it. Myabe it's just me being biased since you renamed it to a more fitting name.
On a side note, give how realistic your multipliers are, I was curious what your thoughts on non-saiyan transformations (i.e. Frieza, absorbtion, mystic, the various fusions) were? Do you think they would have set multipliers or simply be case by case situations?
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Yeah, I think it was the magic clothes and not knowing it was supposed to be a different form that did it for me when it was revealed.
And that makes sense on the transformations.
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Yeah, the only thing I've really changed about Super Saiyan 4 is giving it an out of universe name unrelated to the numbered forms (and no magic clothes). Everything else is the same. Even the idea that it's a different form from the blond states, which originates in a GT guidebook that says it was only named 4 out of convenience, and I'm still having the characters do the same in the actual story.
Most multipliers for transformations or whatever that appear repeatedly (multiple arcs or on more than one character) are usually a simple x2 for me unless otherwise stated, so long as it fits the story. There are exceptions to ever rule though. More unique forms are just whatever fits. I also have formulas for the various fusion types so I canremain consistent from arc to arc, and absorptions are usually just addition (or subtraction if the effects are negative, like a Kaiōshin inside Boo).
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Isn't there an "Ultra Super-Saiyan" mode, that Trunks tried to use on Perfect Cell, but neither Goku nor Vegeta used because, while the form boosts strength, it decreases speed? Also, wouldn't Brolly have his own unique Super-Saiyan form? Personally, I'd call it his "Legendary Super-Saiyan" form that is unique to Brolly, but it was something that Vegeta had stated (though I am partial to just calling Brolly's enhanced form "Ultra Super-Saiyan", and that Brolly was the only one to even manage to perfect it. IMO.
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All this is covered in the description.
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So I was just wondering, which are you taking and making cannon in dragon ball redux, SSGSS Kaioken or Goku begin able to go super sayian god at will? (I'm talking about the two different versions of Goku fight with Hit, just in case your wondering)
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I haven't really sat down and given things too much thought for the time being, because I have other non-project things to focus on right now. I do know it's not as simple as just picking one or the other, because regardless of which I choose, I'm going to have to make some changes to things (minor on one, major if the other). That said, despite traditionally using the manga version of events as the base for the Champa Arc, I'll probably be going with the Kaio-ken. I'm fairly certain it'll screw up less of what I already have established.
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Couldn't you technically use both or something in this? I mean, you're already keeping the God Kaio-ken at a 2x boost so it wouldn't be as overblown as the 10x version, so can't you use the manga version but use the God Kaio-ken for when Black Goku shows up?
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Like I keep saying everywhere, it's never that simple. That would still mean I'd have to majorly rework how I handle the transformations (SG v1 & v2, SSG, LSG). I'd have rewrite most of the arcs, at least everything in the story regarding the forms, from the end of of the fight with Beerus on. Plus alter or remove the mini-arc (Monaka!Beerus to Copy Vegeta) I already scripted about him overcoming his Kaio-ken ki problems.
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Well in the manga at least, if the Resurrection F manga is canon to it anyway, it seemed like Goku just found a way to use Super Saiyan God in place of that Saiyan beyond God thing, so maybe this version is weaker than the initial Super Saiyan God state or something and Super Saiyan Blue helps to reclaim that power. Manga-wise though, it doesn't really look like SSB is 50x stronger than SSG, since if that was the case 10% of SSB would still be 5x stronger than SSG, so SSG Goku > SSB 10% Vegeta wouldn't make any sense unless Goku was back to being massively stronger than him; it'd probably be closer to maybe 5x stronger or something. Still, you've already had to change this transformation thing like 5 or so times now due to everything past Battle of Gods, so I'm really not seeing harder this could be any harder, especially since I'm not really sure if you finalized everything for the arcs since you said you were going on hiatus a long time ago.
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It's not harder as in difficult to change it, it's just extra work that's getting annoying. If I use the anime version of events, I have to make one or two minor tweaks to existing things, while if I use the manga I have to change how I have the transformations work (as in multipliers, how LSG is achieved, what the hell SG even is), rewrite at least 3 arcs, redo a whole list of power levels, etc ...all for a single scene...
Nothing in the project beyond the Red Ribbon Army Arc is finalized, but I do have more than that written out. All of Super, up to the Trunks Arc, is scripted. I stopped just shy of the tournament's end, but finished up during E3 and the last two Saturdays around Super's air time (because sometimes I just can't focus).
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Well for LSG, you could do something like, you're able to achieve the form again by completely mastering the use of the Saiyan God form, since I think the implication in Super was that Saiyan beyond God was using the "power" of SSG, but without the god ki that came with that or the other benefits like regeneration, basically making it similar to the Ultimate State. Mastering the use of god ki within that state would allow one access to Super Saiyan God again, which probably becomes the replacement to SBG; the Saiyan can only use god ki in the SSB state, and learning to access god ki within the SBG state regains access to SSG if you had used the ritual the first time. Granted, this only really works for Goku, since he's the only one who had the SSG form to begin with unlike Vegeta, unless you assume that Vegeta himself can also go SSG thinks to gaining god ki and merging it with his SBG state, and just decided to show off SSB to Cabba cause he's Vegeta.
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Or I could just use the anime and not really have to change anything, saving myself a ton of work. Which is obviously prefered, as the more I have to go back and change, the less time I have for new stuff.
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Ah ok, thank you
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I really like the fact that you actully put Legendary Saiyan God higher than SSBlue.
Many People think that SSBlue is more powerful but I personally think that SSG is Stronger.
For some Numbers: SSG is equivalent to 60-70% Beerus (BoG) Where Whis said that if Beerus was a 10 Goku would be a 6 and Whis a 15.
Sadly there's no such Information in Super (Beerus-Saga) but if i'm right at the end both of them were going all out (Universe shattering) which after that never happened again. You would think that if SSBlue is stronger than SSG, then the Universe would again react to the fight between Frieza and SSBlue Goku which didn't happen.
Golden Frieza would instantly be killed by <10% Beerus IMO and he Held his own against SSBlue Goku.
In turn you could say SSBlue Goku is about 10-20% Beerus (Universe 6 Tournament) when Goku used the Kaioken x10 SSBlue it was implied that he "could come Close" to Beerus' power.
I'd Interpret this implication to SSBlue x10 Goku being about 90-120% Beerus which would put SSBlue itself in the lower 10-20%.
That's my Interpretation on SSBlue vs. SSG
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This chart's description is out of date. I have SSG and SSGSS as being equal in power now.
I don't really care about power statements in Super. I ignore the first two arcs, as they're a terrible reinterpretation of the events Toriyama wrote for the films. For the Champa Arc, I base my stuff off the manga because it works better with the films than the anime, so I only work in material from the latter rather than let it serve as the foundation.
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Oh wow, you fixed the mess that is the SSJ's phases. Nice.
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To me, the Legendary Super Saiyan Transformation has a energy recovery rate, no stamina consumption and is immune to pain (the user's mind ignores, but the body still feels it) in Berserk Mode (buffed up form). With superb mind training one can supress the sheer bloodlust the transformation gives, losing the pain immunity in the process (becoming a green SSJ). If you lose it, Berserk Mode can kick in again.
Your version of it makes a lot of sense to me, it just dosen't feel that special— but hey, it's your vision of it.
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It's not supposed to feel special. That's the entire point. Broli himself can be special (and he is here, in a multitude of ways), but there's absolutely no need for a different transformation.
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In Redux, was Broli born with a slightly different genetic make up that made him special? That seems to me to be what you're going for, I could be wrong tough.
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No, that's it. He's got a mutation or two that give him a high natural power, easy power gains, replenishing stamina, etc. Pretty much anything from the original franchise, just without an extraneous "special, exclusive transformation".
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If you follow what happened in the movies, Broli isn't even going to last that long. I hope you can work on his character to make him more likeable.
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I really don't intend for any of the Broli arcs to be very long. They're more like diversions, or stepping stones, to bigger, better things. For length, the best I could probably do is draw things out by a couple of uneventful days before he snaps, because once he's unleashed, there's no going back. Even in Movie 8 (when he wasn't a Pokemon that only said Kakarotto), he's not the type of character who just sits around and lets time pass while the heroes try to do other things. I do plan on trying to make him a bit less one dimensional during those events, but I'm not drastically changing who he is or anything. I dunno if that will make him more likable or not... (Though I'm also not that partial to Broli, so I'll do what I can/want, but I'm not going to worry to much about it.)
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My two cents; Legendary Super Saiyan could have possibly have been Broly's mutated version of Super Saiyan 2, just with the addition of his ki rising throughout the fight. Though, we also saw that he had a limit to that was well, since he had to blow off a lot of that extra energy during his debut movie; i.e. that scene where he used Blaster Meteor to waste some of that. It actually kind of looks like a disadvantage, since he kind of needed to stop going after Goku to do that, and it looked uncomfortable for him before he did so.
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So, if Legendary Saiyan God requires Divine Ki to actually access, could the form still be achieved after the Saiyan has managed to make the Ki their own?
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No. When the ritual is reversed, the Saiyan's body adapts to try and prevent all the meridian points for Divine Ki from closing. Only a few stay opened, not enough for access to Legendary Saiyan God.
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Guess it'd be too OP if you could just use it at will I guess; even a Super Saiyan God Kaio-ken x20 maxes out at a 500,000x boost, compared to the 600,000x boost from Legendary Saiyan God.
Anyway, when you say that the form can only be used for a short time, does that mean the form still has a time limit to it? What happens after the time limit, does the ritual just naturally reverse or something?
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Actually, based on all the current information that we have up to the recent episode of Super, my current multipliers have changed so that Super Saiyan God is just a way to channel all of Legendary Saiyan God's power after losing the form and most of your Divine Ki. In short, you retain enough of it and the power to put your base in a position where going Super Saiyan will allow you to match the form: Saiyan God = Base x 12,000 & Super Saiyan God = Base x 600,000. I haven't updated the page with this information yet because Super keeps causing me to tweak things, and said multipliers could change again next week. :/
The Super Saiyan God Kaio-ken, for me, will be a max x2 boost. So you're looking at a very temporary Base x 1,200,000 power up, as of right now.
The ritual is separate to the transformation. When the time limit runs out, the form dissipates and the Saiyan should be drained of stamina.
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Sorry you've had to change so much because of this stuff. Hope it all turns out well on your end when Super is finally over.
So would that mean that they could potentially reactivate the Legendary Saiyan God transformation once it runs out the first time, provided the ritual isn't reversed on them?
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As long as they're still endowed with the full Divine Ki channels open, they can use Legendary Saiyan God as many times as they want. They just need to recharge their stamina to refresh the time limit.
If you're a battle junkie genius like Goku, you can reactivate the form again via brute force of will before you recharge (see the end of BOG), but it won't last very long and you'll end up even more drained.
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So how long have you planned the time limit to be?
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I don't have a time limit set right now. My story isn't being drawn or animated. It's really hard to gauge what a valid passage of time should be with these characters, and how fights are traditionally depicted in DB, for a written work.
I do know that the time limit will vary, though. The stronger the Saiyan transforming, the faster it drains. That way I can accommodate Goku losing it during just one fight as well as the first God (Zuki, in DBR) lasting long enough to have a decent war/battle against a large group of evil Saiyans.
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i think LSG should not have a time limit but rather a stamina limit. now here me out on this: a stamina limit is more logical to the world of dragon ball. so for example: goku is in LSG and throughout the fight he keeps exerting more and more and his stamina is slowly draining and in turn the time that he can remain in LSG gets shorter. so what do you think of my theory?
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There's nothing unique about that though. A character's power (ki) is their stamina, so what you just described is how every other transformation already works...
Even excluding the original movie introducing the time limit (thus being logical to the DB world), there's already another instance of a similar situation in the DB universe. It's almost identical to how the time limit functions for the 24 hours Goku has when he visits from the afterlife in the Boo Arc
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what I meant was to use the ki as the limit not some time-based limit.
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I know what you meant, and I'll reiterate, that's how all the other transformations already work. LSG is very specifically not supposed to be like the other transformations, it's supposed to be different. More unique. For being lucky enough to have the Super Saiyan mutation and undergo the ritual to gain divine ki, the ultimate form of a Saiyan who has become a god, the transformation grants an insane level of power with infinite stamina, but only for as long as the timer lasts.
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