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ExplosiveSquid — Free Will is a Myth
Published: 2014-07-24 07:58:10 +0000 UTC; Views: 1396; Favourites: 19; Downloads: 3
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Description
All of your thoughts, feelings, and decisions are the result of chemical and electrical interactions inside of your brain. According to the laws of physics, specifically the laws of conservation of mass/energy, chemical and electrical signals cannot spontaneously generate, nor can they move around to other parts of the brain or carry information without the input of energy.Everything that happens today is the result of what happened when the universe was created. The energy that existed then is the same energy that exists now. If you could take in all of the variables (which is impossible, it's far too much information), you could calculate anything at any point in time.
You cannot change the path of a particle without the input of energy. You cannot think without the input of energy. Yes, you get the energy you need to process thoughts from food-- but the thoughts that this generates are out of your control. You cannot control how energy is processed in your body. You cannot control the chemical reactions that result from these interactions. Free will is an illusion.
So yes, that murderer had to no choice but to commit murder. It was his "destiny" from the time the universe came into existence. Everything lined up perfectly to lead to that outcome, and because energy cannot be created or destroyed, it was entirely unavoidable.
So yes, that murderer that was stopped at the last minute would never have been able to murder anyone. Everything lined up perfectly to lead to that outcome, and because energy cannot be created or destroyed, it was entirely unavoidable.
I'm bad at explaining things, so read this.
blogs.scientificamerican.com/b…
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Comments: 98
How do you know that those chemical reactions aren't generating free will?
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because you can't quantify "free will" because it's an abstract concept that's philosophical in nature and not scientific.
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So is time. Time's the name we give to certain processes, in its case, the process of cause and effect and its passage.
It's the same with free will. Yes, it's a name we give to the ability to make choices, but our ability to make choices is real.
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yeah but time is also based on something biological and empirical.
time is based off of the sun revolving around the earth which we have associated with aging.
thats what time is based off of.
free will is an entirely philosophical concept that is not at all quantifiable.
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It's quantifiable by the fact that we can choose. It's the name we give to the ability to choose, which is indeed real.
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it's
not just that.
the concept of free will is that the choices we are making are choices that WE are making without being influenced by anything else.
machinery and science can prove that whenever you answer a question your answer is already made up by your subconscious mind before you're even aware of calculating it as a decision.
are the decisions you're making truly yours, or is it just your body reacting to stimuli and chemicals regardless of you thinking you're making your own decisions?
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It's clear we can make decisions. Those choices exist. I guess as to whether they are our own or not has been the matter of centuries of debate. I think they exist, but I do get your point.
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That has got to be one of the most f*cked up things I've read on this site.
Consent is the key to a moral society. Even if we don't have free will, it makes more sense to act as if we do.
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...
consent is a myth
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consent is a myth
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c o n s e n t i s a m y t h
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Then what do you propose instead? 
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consent is a myth
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consent is a myth
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Are you capable of speech! 
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glitteryflittery.deviantart.co…
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XD I saw that on SolarSands.
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consent is a myth
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So being abused is destiny? Getting cancer is destiny? Being raped is destiny?
Fuck off. Fuck your "destiny" bullshit. This has nothing to do with whatever choices we make everyday. If anything could attempt to control us, then that would be demons. But that's a whole other thing, and I'd rather not get a disturbing lecture from you because I brought spirituality into it.
A murderer CHOOSES to murder. A rapist CHOOSES to rape. Cancer is a fucking illness that, in some forms of the illness, can be caused by HUMAN CHOICES.
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So you're saying that if I killed you, it was my destiny?
You should know chance a bit more.
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Yes. If that were to happen, to be killed by you would be my "destiny".
Chance is an illusion; I don't believe there's anything truly random. If you had all of the variables, you could predict anything. "Chance" is just a way of saying, "given what I know, here's what might happen". To factor in every possible variable is beyond the capacity of human beings.
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What about quantum indeterminacy?
I'm honestly interested in your opinion on it given your stance.
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There may always be forces beyond control; to explore this would be impractical.
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Okay. I'd beg to differ on the practicality, but practical or not, the fact of the matter still stands. I invite you to read the article in the description if you want a better explanation of the concept.
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I don't really see the logic in how the murderer was ''forced by destiny'' to kill someone.
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I'm not surprised-- if you're the person I'm thinking of, you seem to have issues grasping these things.
You can try reading the article at the end of the description, and if that doesn't help, you can Google further information if you want to.
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I mean, I understand that you're trying to argue that we can't think without energy (that we can't control) so therefore our thoughts can't be controlled either. But I made conscious decision to comment, to wake up this morning. If I wasn't responsible for that who or what was?
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I already explained this in the description, and again, the article explains it far more eloquently. Read the article first, and you'll probably understand the concept. You're asking questions that have already been answered, which is why I'm questioning your comprehension skills. There's nothing I can say to you at this point besides rewording what I've already said, and I don't want to waste my time repeating myself.
Read the article.
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You really didn't but okay, I'll give the article a shot.
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No, I don't see a proper argument in your description that logically explains why the murderer was ''destined'' to be a murderer. It has nothing to do with me ''not grasping things'' (there's that condescending attitude again).
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What of quantum uncertainty governing the ways in which electrons interact within minds - computerised and biological?
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It wouldn't affect electrical interactions so much (as that's not occurring at a quantum level and is very predictable, which is why standard computers are hopelessly deterministic). Quantum interactions are still certainly something to consider, but the state of any quantum particle is still governed by probability, which can be manipulated by a number of factors outside of our control.
Obviously, I can't prove that the human brain is a purely deterministic machine. I don't think science has come far enough to say anything definite.
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Well, I believe that no matter how deterministic something is, there is a chance of something occurring outside its scope. It is a concept I call "Glitchance".
I myself experienced it many years ago. Even in a mind as supposedly deterministic as mine, something unusual occurred.
Furthermore, what about entropy pools and RNGs which use atmospheric noise?
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Theoretically, there's a non-zero chance of anything happening. If you believe in multiverse theory, and that different dimensions can interfere with one another, events can occur with no easily-explainable cause. But the point is that there always is one, and if you were aware of all of the variables, you could still predict it.
I take it you just did a quick search for random number generation. When computers come up with "random" numbers, they use what's called a seed. This gets run through whatever algorithm you're using. Standard computers (I say "standard" since quantum computers exist) are by definition deterministic machines. If you used a fixed seed, you'd always get the same set of predictable results. Using entropy pools or atmospheric noise makes it more difficult to predict, but remember that everything a computer calculates is the result of a deterministic algorithm-- if you know the inputs, you can get the output, no problem.
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Indeed, since seeds are tied to the system clock.
But if a classical computer is simply an array of specially-arranged transistors with a few peripherals and other I/O devices, then something that happens outside the scope of that computer - say, an "explicitly physical" shift (much verbal convolution, no?) - could change the functionality. For example, I doubt that my laptop's screen could break itself in the way that it would break if something hit it.
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The system clock isn't always used, but yes, it's a common choice.
Sure it could. But it couldn't change its function outside of what's already possible unless you're physically creating new connections rather than just rerouting signals down existing circuits. That wouldn't make the computer itself any less deterministic. I assume you want to examine it as an open system, but if you bring external influences into the mix, we're now talking about whether or not the universe itself is deterministic. So far, that's still up for debate. I can't personally confirm or deny it with full confidence.
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Nor can anyone confirm nor deny. What do we really know about the universe?
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It's impossible to have free will without the supernatural.
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Because any action can only have one outcome. On the large scale, if I drop an apple it will always fall in exactly the same way. Logically, then, there is only one way that everything can happen.
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And how you can you be so sure that there will be only one outcome?
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There are no random number generators in real life. According to the laws of physics, and everything we understand, every situation only has one answer.
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Then what about Chaos Theory?
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