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ExplosiveSquid — No Reputable Otherkin
Published: 2014-06-27 21:59:34 +0000 UTC; Views: 3045; Favourites: 57; Downloads: 3
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Description
No one with a formal education in biology or psychology identifies as "otherkin".Neither does anyone with a formal college/university education, for that matter.
Make what you will of it.
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Comments: 227
Well, that's a bummer, because...While I, like many other serious otherkin, agree that factkin is very questionable and unreasonable, fictionkin are literally who brought the otherkin community to life. The first people to call themselves "otherkin" and organize a community around identifying as non-human were elvenkin from J.R.R. Tolkien's world. So, basically, fictionkin. If you look around on most of the larger, mature otherkin forums, you will see that fictionkin are a legitimate and accepted part of the community and not "full of SJW 14 year olds".
Besides that, otherkin aren't valid. "You are all valid uwu" is something that originated from tumblr. And tumblr is widely misinformed about otherkinity. In order for otherkinity to be valid, it would have to be "validated" by the appropriate studies first. Otherkin are legitimate, yes, but not validated. Learn the difference.
Lastly, "kins" isn't a word. The plural of kin is kin. I shouldn't have to explain this to someone who claims to be a serious, "valid" otherkin.
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that comment was mostly troll bait. Also the idea of therianthropy has been around since the 1600s so fictionkin didn't really "start up" the otherkin community. With that idea came the idea that people could also have the souls of mythical creatures, not just real animals. I can agree with you on the tumblr part though. Most people will jump on the wolf train and say they have PTSD because their mom cooked eggs or something like that.
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The "idea" of therianthropy/otherkinity, as in the people identifying as non-human, has probably been around since humanity itself, not only since the 1600s. The term "otherkin" was first used in 1990 and was created by elven fictionkin, as I said. In a way, yes, they did start the community. The first groups of people identifying as werewolves came together later, in 1993. The term "therianthrope" was created one year later by said were-people. Even if it's "troll bait", don't feed misinformation where there already is enough of it.
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Well you believe what you want to believe.
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I believe in facts. Where did you get your information? Please send me your sources, I'd like to see them. I will gladly provide you with sources of my own.
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I've seen and read many myths about people being able to shapeshift into wolves and dragons. I've read them on websites that are based around cryptozoology and just legends in general. One of the websites I've read them on is one called historic mysteries.
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You're getting off topic. I was talking about otherkinity and the otherkin community, not legends and myths about people claiming to be shapeshifters. These are not facts, nor do they proof any point here. These things have nothing to do with otherkinity. Sane, mature otherkin know they are physically human and that phsycial shifting is impossible and not real. What exactly are you trying to tell me here?
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Oh, I forgot to put that most of the myths I read are of people claiming to have the souls of animals and mythical creatures. I forget the most important things lol.
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Idk much about this whole otherkin stuff but isn't it just... Imagination? Or some kind of spiritual belief? Like I have a pretty good imagination and like the furfaggot I am I can literally feel having extra limbs (as in wings like a dragon) and that's not a problem at all. It just feels fun and I'm glad to have that much imagination. I'm pretty sure it's not a mental disorder, also. As a kid it made it really fun to play! Like I could vividly imagine being some kind of animal like a wolf and just feel like I actually turn into one, so much entertainment and wonderful fun, and also wonderful exercise for the 10-yo me when I bounced on a giant trampoline in our yard... 
Like I have no issue with otherkins who understand that it's something a very imaginative brain can cause, and perhaps for some individuals it can serve as a coping mechanism to a mental illness and can be associated with a set of spiritual beliefs etc., but there's a point where I draw the line.
I disagree and despise the otherkins who, however, try to get people to use their animal pronouns (whaddafuck actually) and compare themselves to trans people (who have a medical condition that isn't a choice and that isn't fun at all). I can't have respect for this. Like I've already seen how some people who have never heard of trans people and don't know what it means, now get their first impression about the whole deal from people who think they're literally animals and start comparing living, breathing people to fucking attack helicopters.
You can't be a cat, not in any other sense than in a spiritual belief, but you can't biologically have a cat's brain. If you had a cat's brain, you couldn't use a friggin' Computer and use Tungler. Also how in the fuck would a cat organ with cat genome grow inside a human skull with a human genome, that's not possible. And because otherkin'ness is just a spiritual belief associated with certain feelings, you can't demand people to call you a cat. It's like a Christian would force everyone to see the love of Jesus in things... It's called "shoving your religion/spirituality in others' throat", and it makes you... Kinda... Dickish. Just like to that Christian the love of Jesus is a very "real" thing that this person emotionally experiences, like they might feel the presence of Spirit somewhere etc., to you your feelings about shapeshifting into an animal and feeling like you truly are one, are a personal, emotional experience that you've chosen to associate with a spiritual belief that is being otherkin. Don't force it on others.
Meanwhile trans people have, in biological sense, brains that have opposing sex characteristics than the rest of the body (because brain's developement is more easily affected by hormones at the fetus stage, so if the emryo has already become male or female but it's exposed to too many male or female hormones, then the brain can masculinize or feminize so that it turns out to have the "wrong" sex characteristics, resulting a sex dysphoric individual... it's one of the many theories and all causes ofc are not entirely known) (as in, male body map in brain that causes the brain to expect the body to have the good ol' dick n' bollocks and wide shoulders and other male features, and causes the person pretty nasty as fuck feelings when there actually are ~female~ parts instead, - that condition can't be chosen in any way and it can't be helped in any other way than transition. Also it varies how badly exactly is the brain tuned to be out of Place to the body. Some have it so badly that even sex is impossible, and people with the absolutely worst symptoms are likely gonna need every available form of treatment, as in all the surgeries and stuff. Some will only need hormones to stop feeling dysphoric, or only some of the surgeries.) (Environmental pollution, btw , is known to mess with the sex characteristics and hormonal functions of wildlife, so it wouldn't even be a wonder if it increases the amount of human embryos that grow up into transgender individuals) (Also I think that the medical/biological approach supports nonbinary gender identities as well, since that'd just mean that the brain had less wrong hormones than the brain of a binary trans man or woman, but still enough of a dose anyway to result dysphoria) (I've seen many times how a trans man started hormonally transitioning but began to identify as nonbinary after some of the changes, and stuck with that, and I've also seen nonbinary people begin identifying clearly as either men or women, feeling dysphoric at both stages. I have seen also the trans men, probably the majority of them, who just want to 100% adapt into the male gender role, have every possible surgery and full hormonal treatment to appear as perfectly male as possible and never want to be associated to the past person they were before they either realized they're trans or before they started transitioning. For some people it doesn't matter at all what the social gender role is, as long as they can physically transition, while some physically transition not because of body-feels, but because their dysphoria results from the social expectation of wrong gender. Brain sex characteristics also aren't entirely know, so the "body map" might not be the only sex-specific feature in the brain. Someone's body map could be nicely in tune with the body but the rest of the brain could be tuned so that they function in the "male way" and make the person therefore see himself as male.) (And yes I am talking about people who feel more whole and better after either medical, social or both kinds of transitioning which does count them as being dysphoric. These feelings are not a choice and they have their roots in biology, regardless of how severe or non-severe they are.)OT warning (People will cope with being trans in various ways. For some it helps to have positivity and acceptance over it while for some it helps to be able to act like it's not really happening at all, so they can forget and avoid thinking about it as much as possible. And yes trans people are often dicks to each other about their differing experiences, and then throw around the "transtrender" word even at people who genuinely couldn't choose how are they feeling. It's shitty and not helping anyone. Also some binary trans guys with strong dysphoria have this fun idea that they can lump nonbinary people together with otherkin and attack helicopters, which kind of forces nonbinary people to disclose Private information about things like their dysphoria or personal information to others so they can prove they're not "transtrending". Doing this to people whose gender identity you don't understand is unbelievably ignorant and cruel. What if someone started questioning if YOU are really trans or not to the point you feel really disgusting and you're forced to talk about your dysphoria to this aggressive person so they leave you alone? Also not every trans person knows ever since they were 10. Some know at their 30ties and fully transition. And some can have sex without surgeries, despite being hairy and beardy and male-passing. Don't even try to tell all these people they aren't "really" trans, your victimized feelings about your own severe condition don't give you that authority. Say whatever you say, but others have the right to say your opinion is bigoted and ignorant as well.)
If I made at least someone understand you can't compare gender with a spiritual belief / roleplay identity / etc., good. Also I don't want people to hate on the otherkins who don't even do the jerk thing.
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No famous individual complains about something as minor as an otherkin, just saying.
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i'll just put this here, most otherkins can be validly diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder (DID) which cannot be cured. it's a serious mental illness that can affect one's life, and any otherkin who HAS been diagnosed with it needs to seek treatment; as it is a symptom of the illness itself.
"dissociative identity disorder is characterized by the presence of two or more distinct personality identities. each may have a unique name, personal history, and characteristics."
people may experience:
behavioral: impulsivity, self-destructive behavior, or self-harm
mood: anxiety, feeling detached from self, or mood swings
psychological: altered consciousness, depression, or flashback
also common: amnesia or blackout
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good for them. let them identify as whatever they want. but this stamp creates the blatantly incorrect belief that otherkin identifiers who aren't famous or well-educated don't matter because no famous person identifies as otherkin and that is outright anti-human and awful.
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"reputable - having a good reputation"
I'm reputable, I have never committed a crime, I'm not typically rude unless provoked, I make semi decent art, I don't judge blindly, that makes me reputable.
I'm otherkin.
I even had a psychiatrist confirm that me being an otherkin was just a part of me, and you know, they are a fucking PROFESSIONAL.
You can believe what you like about otherkin, but it's like judging trans. we're not some weird aliens, we're regular human beings, theres just something weird about us that is completely. god. damn. NORMAL.
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again, i know this comment is old as heck.
but the thing is while otherkin get threats online, people don't tend to think much less of them irl. at worst, otherkin/fictionkin get laughed at in real life - though if you can provide evidence to an otherkin losing their job, being kicked out of their home, or even murdered for their spiritual belief, i'll accept being wrong.
it's nothing like people judging trans people - trans people can and do lose their lives over transphobia. otherkin/fictionkin do not.
otherkin don't need safe spaces because we've got nothing we need to be protected from. trans people do.
otherkin are discriminated against but we're not in a state of oppression. the people who make fun of otherkin don't hold power over us or deny us job opportunities, friends, lovers, family, and a chance at life.
you're arguing using strawmen parallels that nobody has ever said, ever.
oppression requires a position of authority.
the shit we get? it's like heterophobia and cisphobia: limited to the internet.
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I know this comment is old as hell, but-
>"You can believe what you like about otherkin, but it's like judging trans."
No. No. NO.
Trans people are literally hunted down and killed by transphobes. Otherkin don't have to deal with that shit. Stop trying to make yourself look oppressed.
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??? yeah it is old as hell, i have much better reasons for people not to be dicks to otherkin.
and Im literally just saying that it's as worthless as judging trans people, youre just bein a dick to people that can't change. I fucking know trans people are oppressed as hell, but trans and otherkin do get similar hate ONLINE. otherkin much less, but it's usually the same reasons. religion, or "i dont understand so it must be wrong" religion for otherkin being "reincarnation is bullshit", and "i dont understand it" being
I fucking know that, but again, online, both groups get fucking death threats. death threats. that shit isnt funny, and im sure at least one radical anti otherkin, if they knew one in real life, would try and kill them, or try to make them kill themselves.
notice the parallels? and why over 6 months ago i might've used it as an example?
well, i just went and looked at what i commented for the first time in this little rant, and I found out i said something less offensive than i thought.
if you hadn't of cut off my sentence, im pretty sure you wouldve had much more of a problem being offended by me saying "we're not some weird aliens, we're regular human beings, theres just something weird about us that is completely. god. damn. NORMAL."
not once did i mention us otherkin are oppressed, i just said that we arent these weird things that dont deserve a life, that are all mentally ill, and you know why i made that point? because trans people and otherkin get attacked for very similar reasons.
"all otherkin are mentally ill! they believe they're a wolf! (which isnt even fucking true)"
"all trans people are mentally ill! they believe they're the opposite gender!" see it?
"there is no reincarnation! youre going to hell!"
"god made you the way you are for a reason! youre going to hell!" how about now?
"why do you need safespaces and positive things? grow thicker skin!"
"why do you need safespaces and positive things? grow thicker skin!"
"they just want attention!"
"they just want attention" do you see the damn parallels YET?
so what youre saying is, by me making a comparison, that doesnt mention anything about what offended you, im trying to make myself look oppressed? its also funny how again, you didnt mention that otherkin actually are slightly oppressed. not much, but we get death threats.
so what were you saying about me making a bad comparison and not being "oppressed"?
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Everything in this comment means nothing. All you did was contradict me without making any good points.
The reason otherkin get so many death threats is because they make a mockery of people with real gender issues.
"If you're a man in a woman's body, I can be a fox in a human's body!"
No. That's not how it works. No, you don't deserve death threats. But you DO need to get a grip.
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otherkin/fictionkin being linked to gender identity issues is a recent thing (last 3-4 years) done to try and discredit both parties. it hasn't always been like this with otherkin, which have been around much longer.
go back 5-6 years before gender identity politics was a mainstream topic, and most otherkin were mocked simply for believing they weren't human - otherkin wasn't exactly a mainstream topic at the time either, but there was no link between it and gender identity/transgender issues. that link was added by trolls and transphobes after the outburst of neogenders and neopronouns, again, to discredit both parties over a bunch of misinformed kids.
otherkin/fictionkin aren't oppressed, i agree, but we are still discriminated against. dragongirl's right - we have recieved suicide bait, death threats, abuse, and a shitton of messages telling us we're delusional among other nasty shit to call someone, and we don't have the rest of society having our backs.
-- someone who's both trans and fictionkin
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I doubt it was trolls that originally said that, because trolls rarely make good points. The logic is there. There's science behind being trans, but there's no science behind being otherkin. It's okay to identify with things. Heck, I even have sympaths. But unless you have a genuine problem, to believe you are that thing is harmful.
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there is no science behind any religion (which is what otherkin is - a spiritual belief and connection with a non-human entity, including fictional characters), nor is there science that the realm we occupy is even real. science has no way to prove that we aren't stuck in a sophisticated simulation or matrix. science isn't even able to prove this reality is a reality.
"trolls rarely make good points" ... Trolling is an act of satire through parody by way of making a false account and pretending to be an exaggeration of the people you're making fun of.
"the logic is there" what logic? you just said trolling didn't make a good point, and then said "there's logic to the trolling". as I said, otherkin and fictionkin had different complaints before the outbursts of gender identity politics.
why is it not harmful to believe you are something when you have a genuine problem (and what kind of genuine problem? that's incredibly vague terminology and covers a broad range of problems), but it suddenly becomes harmful if you don't have a genuine problem, and in what way does it become harmful to believe that your past life involved being non-human if you don't have a genuine problem?
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You're the first otherkin I've ever met to say that. From my experience, otherkin literally identify as that thing. Not with it. They actually believe they are it.
That's satire. Again, different experiences. I've only ever heard of trolls trying to get a rise out of people, with genuine satire and decent points only involved on very rare occasions. The logic against otherkin is one of those rare occasions.
Conditions that force your brain to believe you're something else. Believing in reincarnation is fine too. It's when you have the body of a human, who thinks you literally have a dragon's brain inside your head, that it becomes an issue. And those are the only types of otherkin I've experienced.
Taking our completely contradictory experiences into consideration, I don't really think it's fair for us to argue about this. Thanks for being civil though, I genuinely appreciate that.
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here's the thing about one's personal experience: it does not reflect the group as a whole. i have had extremely bad run-ins with an Aboriginal girl - that doesn't mean that all Australian Aboriginals are bad people.
also, a lot of people when they say they "are" something that isn't a real person, they mean they were it in a previous life.
again. your personal experience is not good enough to dismiss an entire group. most of the otherkin i've talked to back up what i'm talking about.
you could have said "conditions that cause your brain to believe you're something else" (because brains are not being forced, there is a cause behind things) and avoided the whole fiasco.
why exactly is it an issue to you or someone else if someone believes they have a dragon's brain? that's what i'm still wondering.
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Tumblr is a huge place chock-full of otherkin. They're all over the place, and so far none of them have been sensible people. Every single one has had one of those ridiculous "byf" pages, and every single one thinks that they're oppressed for being otherkin. I've met one otherkin who happens to be sensible, but her kin is more of a sympath.
If only one person out of several hundred has sense, I think that's a problem.
My issue is that it makes trans people look like a joke. You can be born in the wrong body, but it's a serious problem that people really struggle with, and otherkin just makes it look trivial.
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i'm well aware of tumblr being a chock-full place of otherkin - i do have an account that i frequently use.
the otherkin that do what you describe are often mocked on a blog (byfcringe), and i could link you to a couple of my otherkin mutuals who aren't as you've described.
you would be right if only one person out of several hundred had sense, but it is a vocal minority that act like this - and of this vocal minority, most are minors, who are going to be immature by nature. of course, if you feel like i've made a mistake, you're free to back up your claims with evidence.
i'm trans. i have dysphoria. i was born in the wrong body. it is a struggle. there are things that make it worse under the pretense of being progressive, but otherkin is not one of those things.
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Vocal minority or not, it's disrespectful. Being a minor is no excuse for that either.
So is my sister, but do you know how many people have said to her "LOLOLOL I BET UR A FOX ALSO"? Too many to count. And if my sister has a genuine problem with something, I do too.
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i never said it was an excuse, it was reasoning.
people have said to me "omg stop trying to be special!!! are you an attack helicopter too???!!!". this was before i found out i was fictionkin.
would you argue logic over emotion, or emotion over logic?
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It sounds more like an excuse to me.
There's nothing logical about otherkin.
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i could argue your entire argument against otherkin is excused by your emotions. Not only could I argue that, there'd be merit to it.
Your reasoning to hate us and believe we're trying to bank off of trans issues (when some of us are trans, mind you) comes from nothing more than personal experiences with things you've just assured us are "not trolls and are totally legit" without any evidence.
"Otherkin are people with the spiritual belief that they were something that was non-human in a past life, whether that be a real life non-human creature or a character from a work of fiction". I think that's a pretty logical explanation unless you're some diehard atheist who believes that there needs to be a scientific explanation for everything - which is already flawed, since we have no way of proving that the world we live in isn't just another fictional universe, nor that we aren't stuck in an elaborate simulation.
Your whole argument rides on the emotional status of your little sister and people who harass her, and you're pushing the blame onto otherkin - which is exactly what the trolls want you to do. So congratulations, if you ever do discover you also had a past life, I'll bet $10 it was a fucking sheep.
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I don't hate all otherkin. I just hate special snowflakes. Heck you seem to be pretty darn cool judging by your stamps. I see spiritual belief as a good reason, but I still don't completely agree with it. I believe in some spiritual things due to personal experience, but reincarnation isn't one of them.
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i never said you did hate otherkin.
nobody said you had to agree with a religious belief - but you don't have to be disrespectful about it just because of the nutjobs.
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The original commenter said being otherkin was just like being trans. That... pissed me off.
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that's understandable, it's misinformed.
i took a look at OP's page - they support self-diagnosis, so there's that.
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By the looks of it, they're also fine with neopronouns. Yep, not gonna mess with them.
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psychiatrists and neuroscientists are different. i suggest that if you want answers to see if it's a mental defect, go to a neuroscientist.
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I am actually trying to. it could take up to a year though, sadly.
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im gonna post my reply here because appearently animekyusu blocked me lmao
no, no. you misunderstood. i didnt mean it as a question. otherkin does not, obviously, deal with gender; and i didnt call you holy shit. its just weird puncuation habits.
anyway, lets have a look at this.
"There is no conceivable development path to literally have the mind of another animal, just like there is no development path for someone to literally be Napoleon or Lincoln. Believe in reincarnation if you want, but those things are spiritual/religious and not really a matter of science and medicine."
"no conceivable development path". yknow a lot of people are otherkin are also mentally ill? now that may not be the reason that they ARE otherkin. otherkin is a spiritual belief. now whether its in a reincartation kind of light, a means of coping, or whatever else, it all comes down to the idea of being spirtual. also, while science and medicine are maybe the most important and prominent forms of studies of living, its certainly not the only ones, and its certainly not what makes us.
"The primary explanation for trans people relates to how the brain develops. Depending on hormones and genetics, the brain either develops along a masculine or feminine track. Nothing in biology is neat and clean. It's easy to understand that in some cases, things get mixed up a bit and you end up with a brain that is feminized in a masculine body, or a feminized brain in a masculine body. This is biology, not metaphysics. There's actual, real science behind this, unlike your "gender" "
again, otherkin is not a gender. its a spirutal belief. this has absolutely nothing to do with otherkin. nadda.
"OtherKin make Trans people look bad, people with serious problems, who are really oppressed and struggling with dysphoria.
Just like beastality isn't a sexuality, otherkin isn't a gender, unless you can prove otherwise, but you won't be able to."
otherkin and trans people do not correlate as they are, once again, not the same thing.
"Gender is a human concept anyway. - if you're not (entirely) human you have no gender, just a sex, male or female."
yeah i agree with you on that.
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using
how can something spiritual and based off religion be a gender, that's what I want to know
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its not a gender? where did you read that from holy shit
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how is it a gender then? explain.
it's a sub-culture at most.
There is no conceivable development path to literally have the mind of another animal, just like there is no development path for someone to literally be Napoleon or Lincoln. Believe in reincarnation if you want, but those things are spiritual/religious and not really a matter of science and medicine.
The primary explanation for trans people relates to how the brain develops. Depending on hormones and genetics, the brain either develops along a masculine or feminine track. Nothing in biology is neat and clean. It's easy to understand that in some cases, things get mixed up a bit and you end up with a brain that is feminized in a masculine body, or a feminized brain in a masculine body. This is biology, not metaphysics. There's actual, real science behind this, unlike your "gender"
OtherKin make Trans people look bad, people with serious problems, who are really oppressed and struggling with dysphoria.
Just like beastality isn't a sexuality, otherkin isn't a gender, unless you can prove otherwise, but you won't be able to.
I've never been called holy shit before, thank you I appreciate it
Gender is a human concept anyway. - if you're not (entirely) human you have no gender, just a sex, male or female.
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nobody is calling otherkin a gender my dude.
otherkin dont make trans people look bad, because it isn't related to gender whatsoever. Nobody claims that it is, and if they do theyre probably trolling.
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probably, but yeah, most otherkins I've come across (if I'm thanking them for a fav, llama or whatever) often complain that I miss gender them - "My gender is otherkin, use my proper pronouns!!"
or when filling out a form, people post pictures complaining about how their otherkin gender isn't listen when they ask what gender they are (hopefully these people are taking the piss though)
the third example is how they are being "gender oppressed"
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are you talking abt nonbinary people....? because nonbinary genders are real, have a really long history, and dont have anything to do with otherkin.
if ppl are saying "im dog gender i use woofself pronouns" or something like that, theres a 99% chance they're trolls and taking the piss.
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I know non-binary is a gender and exists
understandable
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it's basically a religious idea - due to it being based off of reincarnation
so idk i don't really care much for it
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