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PM-James — 084 SS HTKF: Confrontations
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Published: 2018-09-06 23:47:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 4121; Favourites: 45; Downloads: 6
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So here we get into the meat of this sequence, and I am very interested in the reaction to this page as Solar drops his belief about Marina, which he has been hanging onto for a while now. Back in their second fight, when she was chewing him out, I tried to make it look like he was about to say something but chose not to. Well we find out what he held back now, the belief that Marina wasn't attacked but instead willingly sold Nymphia to Team Rocket and the reason she has never come looking for Nymphia is because she never actually cared about the Sylveon. This of course parrallels his own experiences with Galvin and delves into why he is mistrustful of her. He essentially believes she is brainwashed and is nothing more than Marina's pawn, whether she realizes it or not. The fact he doesn't know for sure if she realizes it or not is also why he was unsure of what she would do if she found him. I got some questions about the "What if you find him" and "Evil Witch line." Well that is the explanation to that and the revelation that he was actually talking about Marina, not Crystal, when he pondered what Nymphia and "The Evil Witch." would do if she found Tyler.Like I said before, I want to explore the Protagonist centered morality concept and here we dive right into it with a revelation. Solar may be wrong about his theory and initially my guess is the audience will come to that conclusion to. However, Solar has had hands on experience with being used, manipulated and being thrown away and the only person who can confirm whether Marina actually is a good person or not is the very person he believes has been brainwashed into believing that she is. So is she truly good or not? Well only time will tell but the trope explores the idea that we accepted she was good solely because Nymphia believed that was the case and the audience is usually left to accept anything the protagonist says as true or believes to be correct. I hope this is a very game changing revelation at the very least. The trope will be explored further as the story goes along as it manifests itself in several different ways, but for now, this is how I've decided to tackle the concept.
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Comments: 18
All apart of Rising Action. This is intended to be one of the most uncomfortable sequences in the whole story and Chapter 2's finally is going to begin shortly as well.
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>.<
Well, it is exciting. You're a good artist and a good writer. I'm jealous. I'm an above-average artist, but not particularly good, and I'm a decent writer, but this... this is amazing. Good job.
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Thank you! Thanks, I try! Well if you want any advice or whatever, I'm available.
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Well lets see, all this is tricky for me to fully get behind. Not only the situation, but this trope and how you tackle it differently.
Well so Solar believed the whole time that Nymphias owner is nothing than a bad girl who used her. I would never have guessed that, but given how he showed too think of trainers in general that is an idea you could pick up too. And yes, I come to the conclusion that this theory is wrong too.
Also,would it really change something for Solar if she realize she is used or not? Because she will do he same thing no matter what.
I also don't get why this is such a game changing revelation. Sorry, maybe you could help me out a little. I am a little stuck with this trope and all.
As for the relationship with Nymphia, the level of negativity between this too might even be higher then I thought it would get, would say not much more then I expected, but still. I guess Nymphia will not only lose all rest of respect for Solar, but also losing all trust in his natural rational skills. She may now think he is nothing but a human-hating, mistrusting punk who she can't trust on with anything. I would say more, but it just doesn't come out now.
As for Solar, this is even worse then I thought. I thought him and Nymphia would just be rivals, like she is something to him he is annoyed about and all and he has her flaw with her, but this reveals that for some time now he either already sees her as an enemy, a thread and source of problems, or at least is about. Who knows, he may even be about do see her as a true nemesis or something.
I also don't now how the answer "No, I would not kill your sister if she would tell me too!" would prove anything about Marina, rather than Nymphia.
Or is he meaning it would mean that Nymphia wasn't fully brainwashed by her?
Anway, I am dissapointed in Solar. I know he got his expirience with being used, but this is a very hard thing to say. I mean ok, it's a logical that he fears about his family and msitrust a trainer owned pokemon, but this was to much. He pratically told her indirectly that he thinks she is a puppet and evil scum. I think he just lost it here and let his anger got the better of him, let it get out the wrong way. If he thought that way the whole time ok, but he could keep it out till now, so he could have keep it up for longer. No, it's that the anger about Tylers loss makes him so angry that he has to let it out on her now. When Nymphia would have done something mayor bad that would give proof to Solars ideas of her, then I would have understand him confronting her with this, but she has done nothing wrong again ever since her lying about not being wild has been revealed. I hope you understand what I try to say.
I will say more, but thats it for now. Will wait for your respond first.
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He believes she was no different than Galvin. He lied to Solar about them being like family, used him and then tried to dispose of him once Solar was no longer of any use. Solar believes Marina is no different and did the same thing.
Well it worked on Solar himself. When you look at it, what is going on here has several things in common with when Blaze rescued him from the cell. However, the difference lies entirely with where they were coming from. Blaze was coming from a place of love and concern. Solar is coming from a place of anger and distrust. Resulting in a very different execution.
Well it’s up to the viewer I suppose but to me, it changes pretty much everything assuming it’s true. It’s still a tragic story but where that tragedy comes from is shifted significantly:
Nymphia’s telling of the story was a tragic tale about two very close and dear friends that due to circumstances that were out of their control and not their fault, resulted in them being torn apart from one another by criminals. Likely to never see one another again. The tragedy comes from the fact these innocent individuals received unjustified punishment with no clear redemption for either of them.
Solar’s version is completely different. His version paints Marina as Two-Faced, somebody who pretends to be your friend to get something out of you than once they got it or get a better deal, throw you away. Though he doesn’t directly state it, he also implies Marina herself was in debt or held some of the debt too, making the situation at least partially her fault as well. In his version the love Nymphia had for Marina was entirely one sided and they weren’t torn apart tragically at all because Marina knowingly and willingly got rid of Nymphia essentially. To me it changes pretty much everything. It’s still a sad, tragic story but the tragedy now comes from the fact Nymphia doesn’t understand that and still loves her and that Marina got away with doing a horrible thing to an innocent person for her own personal gain.
These two’s relationship has pretty much been in the toilet since the story started but this certainly wont help with that. As for her reaction, yeah, she could very well come to that conclusion about him. She may not if he can convince her he’s right but doing that would be difficult and unlike Blaze, he’s not coming from a place of love, which will make it even harder.
The following page will reveal what he thinks of Nymphia herself in greater detail, so I don’t want to say to much about that. All I’ll say is he believes she’s a puppet, but whether she is aware of that or not he isn’t sure about.
What Solar is basically asking is if Marina told her to do something horrible, would she do it? Recall a quote from Nymphia “I loved Marina and I was happy to do anything for her… though I wasn’t always proud of it.” What Solar is really doing is putting that to the test, would she really do anything for her or is there a too far?
This was his anger about Tyler’s loss getting the better of him, that’s completely correct. That gets back around to him coming from a place of anger. He has and could have kept this to himself but his anger got the better of him. I find when somebody is furious, they don’t think straight, they don’t consider the consequences of their actions and they tend to hurt those around them or push them away, intentionally or not. That’s exactly what has happened here.
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Yea, it actually is quite similar with the Blaze rescue. But the fact that like you say Solar comes from hate and not from love made me not realize it and makes it look much different.
Well ok yes I get it now, I hope you aren't dissapointed I didn't realize it myself. Perhaps it is because I just don't believe. Of course I am used to fall victim of "believe anything you hear from the main guy" trope, but it's not just that. I simply believe Nymphia is a to smart and calculated character to not realize she has been used for so long. Of course I could be wrong since she was still young when the bonding started but still. And now the question you put on me is not only how should I see this or " should I be open for both options? The good and the bad side?" but also "How should I expect Nymphia to go with this situation?". My first reaction and still my preferable move is that I just wanna believe Nymphias version cause I am convinced she actually was to smart to be brainwashed and it was a true relationship. Second reason for that is that I am just the type of the person who wants to believe in the good (may also come from my believe in god...) if neither side is proofen wrong. Now thats a really a tricky situation for me. I don't knw how do decide yet. Same goes for the question of what I am expecting Nymphia to do now. Should she just wash this all off and continuing her search or should she also consider the Espeons idea to be true, which will put in a position of even more questioning and with that suffering. Of course t's also to be considered how Solar continues to behave in this. That question may be even harder then the first one. I think an idea would be to may consider it and keep searching for Marina to have truth as soon as possible f the search doesn't take to long.
Don't know if this was supposed to make me react like that for an example, but it certainly interesting wanted from you or not 
Why I am especially mad at Solar is because he may exacly will move in this situation where she will questioning Marina to be bad, even if I don't believe that she will do it. And if she falls in more doubts, not knowing what to believe anymore, then it may be an unbearable pain for her, and he is smart enough to consider that. I understand him being mad, but that was too much. If you think about it, you could do the same to Solar with Tyler. Nymphia could ask Solar: "Was it wrong from Tyler to run away?" which would maybe put him in a place of two sides you can't proof wrong too.
Wow, this really makes for a great discussion.
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Well that gets back around to the opposite, parrallel traits thing. You can apply that to scenes, settings, etc as well. There's also a concept in politics called the horseshoe effect, where those on the far right and far left believe their polar opposites, that their on opposite points on a linear line, but in reality they actually have a lot in common and are more like on the opposite ends of a horseshoe, a lot closer together than they realize. I like to apply that to story telling as well.
Well exactly who the trope is being applied to I wont say (may even be getting applied to both of them), as we have two protagonists here. What I will say about it though is the trope manifests itself in several different ways but the reoccurring theme is the world, the audience, morality, etc revolves around the perspective of the protagonist, or the hero as it's usually put. Stories generally follow the main character(s) pretty closely and as such, their goals, beliefs and interests are usually the focus of the story and those things are precieved to be true, correct, etc by the audience and even the writer themself as well. The trope can be intentionally used such as the hero learning a lesson by the end of the story. It can also be used by critics as a descriptive trait when criticizing pieces of work as well, kind of like Mary Sue is often used to desribe a poorly written character.
We shall see about some of those questions but many questions will arise from this I'm sure and they should.
Whether it was the right thing to do or not for Tyler to run away will be explored as well, though not here so much but in Shining C. Asking Solar that would be pretty interesting I think though, especially considering he tried to convince Tyler that what happened wasn't his fault, yet he did anyway and feeling guilty was a major reason he ran away.
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I've had to re-read this page and your description about this confrontation and honestly...it's uncalled for. This trope is easily misused and Solar is and will regret this choice. I can see it in Nymphia's eyes and expression. She's done with Solar's outlandish claims and I would not be surprised if she loses any respect she had for Solar because of this. She isn't going to stand by and let Solar spew his arrogance all over her trainer's good name. She's going to come in blunt, hard, and brutal. If she comes in soft, meek, and weak...I will be extremely disappointed in her and your idea of character building. Harsh words, but this is a dangerous trope to touch. Poor execution of this will make me question the "why?" of why this happens now at a point of furious blind rage...instead of in the first encounter where tension wasn't high like this. Someone is going to get hurt now and it could have been prevented. (Trust me...I know from life confrontations of similar manner.) And that person...is going to be Solar. If Nymphia doesn't turn on him and leave Solar looking foolish...then the trope will be for nothing. Anything short of not saying "who are you to judge who you've never met" in some capacity will make the trope will be for nothing. So yeah...that's my two scents on this page.
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Well you do realize there's multiple ways the trope can be executed and it doesn't just fall into a single definition right, good and bad? For instance a bad use of it is for the story to involve the protagonist do something immoral and they get away with it because they're the hero and as such everything they do is good. Another example is the villain being depicted as a villain because the plot says there a villain and not because of anything they have actually done. An example of a good use of it is the hero learns a lesson during the events, their actions, beliefs, etc have some sort of intentionally implanted flaw that results in the hero learning a lesson, becoming a better person, etc by the end of the story or if not them, than somebody around them. Another good use of it is to hide plot twists in, as the audience will often times accept anything the protagonist believes or says as true until demonstrated otherwise. So I think you need to define the trope a little bit.
As far as the characters themselves goes, well I wont to talk much about future events, but relationship wise, Solar and Nymphia's relationship has pretty much been in the toilet since the start of the series and this will certainly not make things any better between the two of them, regardless of whether Solar's revelation is actually true or not. I doubt she has much respect for Solar to begin with, so there's a good chance that if she does, it will be gone. As far as coming off weak and meek, she's not used to Solar not backing down which caught her by surprise but other than that, she's been just as quick to get in his face as ever before. The only real difference between this fight and the other ones is Solar has refused to back down, which he usually would do as soon as she started yelling at him.
I tackle challenging concepts, it's just how I am. I agree it's a dangerous trope to try to tackle but it wouldn't be the first time I have attempted that and certainly wont be the last. Like said, I don't want to go into future events and such but all I'll say is the issues you discussed and more have been considered and will certainly be addressed.
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Well I'm glad to know that the issues I discussed and more have been considered. So I think that means that in some ways we are on the same page figuratively speaking. I'll just have to see what happens.
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LOVE that close up in the last panel, as well as the angry psychic effect surrounding Solar during most of the page!
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Thank you! Will be plenty more of that aura, I can assure that!
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