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Psyco-The-Frog — Gameplay argument 3
#adventure #knucklestheechidna #rougethebat #sega #shadowthehedgehog #sonicthehedgehog #tailsmilesprower #doctoreggman
Published: 2017-05-25 21:42:36 +0000 UTC; Views: 2407; Favourites: 33; Downloads: 0
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The hypocrisy. Another reason I dislike gameplay arguments because in cases like this, it has nothing to do with the quality of gameplay some people like to go on about, but just can't handle different styles, so they call them bad for no reason. These are usually the same people who can't see why others don't like or tired of boosting and can't understand that we want real 3D gameplay back. Then you know, the fanbase is unpleasable, Dreamcast Douches, alleged hive mind mentality, you can't complain but we can, etc.I just want REAL 3D gameplay and not play as Sonic skins for some superficial sense quality. It gives the games more variety. Again, I will refer to Sonic Worlds. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxWq9…
Oh shit, forgot this shit aged badly.
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Comments: 80
"Except that flying is actually a huge difference that changes a lot in terms of how the game is played, alows the creators to add more pathways and smaller secrets."
A difference in how you play, not a difference in the style itself. Keep in mind your argument only works for Sonic 3, where Sonic actually did have access to most places Tails could fly to, so your point is moot.
"I admit that I must have overlooked the part where you said Rouge was the new character."
Ok.
" Once again Tails isn't a full-on clone of Sonic like Shadow was."
You're still ignoring that I meant gameplay wise, where in Sonic 2, he was introduced as such because you couldn't fly, and in Sonic 3, Sonic had access to pretty much any place Tails could fly to.
" I get that in Adventure 2 they had to make both stories equal, but for a possible Adventure style game in the futere I'd like Tails to play similarly to how he did in Adventure 1."
You mean like Sonic but can fly, which he did in the Advance games also. One action doesn't stop Tails from being a clone of Sonic gameplay wise when that action was not used in the first game he was introduced in, where he played exactly like Sonic. By gameplay, that makes him a clone from the very start.
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I'll leave this here:
Analytic Rant-Sonic's Friends Aren't Sonic HimselfSo I wasn't completely sure on what I wanted to talk about until I thought of the current limbo more than half the characters of the franchise were in so I thought let's have a discussion about Sonic's friends.
I see there is two main reasons why people don't like Sonic's friends. Either they they think there are too many (I'll get to that) or for the simple fact they are not Sonic. I want to take the last one first as it is the lesser of two evils. Firstly what does the arguement mean even if it is not outright stated well simple.....it is mostly from a gameplay perspective. Minus Sonic look at the Genesis and Adventure 1 and 2 for instance and ask any regular what are the best parts of them. For the Adventure games you can make a list of how many people say "The Sonic and Shadow levels are the best parts" which is almost always the major opinion scattered about the differences. When you look at the classic games the reasons why people liked Tails and Knuckles originally is because th
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some people in the fandom are just plain brainless.
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to be honest I feel they want rushed games on purpose
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That or just the same exact game with the same exact character doing the same thing with no variety.
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and the fact SONY is making sonic a movie I doubt using video game characters will be enough cause if SONY found out that sega set mandates on the characters (which btw penders didn't want to happen either) they'll be conceived as frauds
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I thought it was just the comics that had a set of rules and mandates so now it could be movies and other pieces of media too. What would happen if the mandates get stretched so far into the fan fiction realm.
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The fans can get fucked I suppose then again it is a privilege to let us use their contents so long as it is n't for legal purposes. It'll be a matter of time before Sega fully cracks down.
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You mean like Mario games? lol
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Isn't that what Sonic games have been daring to turn into for the longest time
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Since Unleashed. Though, if Forces is anything to go by, Lost World will be the highest point of this lunacy and hopefully stay there.
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There's a clear problem when you make a SONIC game and said that it is to "cater to Mario fans". Seriously I can't get over the fact they'd market a Sonic game to Mario fans that is fucked up stupid.
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Hence why SOJ needs to be replaced or give SOA all rights to Sonic, then replace them with more talented people. And yes, I say this after adding custom characters to Forces, it doesn't make up for 10 years of idiocy.
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Why do you thing SOA is going to change anything when there were given the keys to do what ever there want with Sonic by SOJ a few years back did there made Sonic Boom and open the Official Sonic Twitter account better known as Arron Webber making fun of the Adventure Era of Sonic which are both no better than the stuff SOJ pulls as of recently SOA isn't anymore what it was in the 90th just as SOJ or even SOE Sega as a whole is incapable at the moment and really only a complete new team could change this (like the team of platinum games or the team behind Yakuza both Sega studios that would probably do better than Sonic Team at the moment(both probably would even creative assembly do better than Sonic team right now)).
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"Why do you thing SOA is going to change anything when there were given the keys to do what ever there want with Sonic by SOJ a few years back"
Is there a disturbance in the force that you can sense every time I mention SOA, cause you show up every time. Anyway, SOJ caused everything wrong with both Sonic and the entire company since the mid 90's. SOJ took control of the company long before the master system was even a concept, that has no barring damn near 30 years now.
"there made Sonic Boom"
So you're going to ignore everything SOJ did since Unleashed to turn Sonic into a Mario game. I hate Boom but that doesn't absolve SOJ's decade long tenure of fuck ups. You also forget SOJ backed them on it, something they never did for the comics are cartoons. Boom was nothing more then a SOA version of SOJ's fuck ups, and I said they neded to be replaced, so keep ignoring every detail you can to justify arguing with me for the hundredth time on this issue.
"SOA isn't anymore what it was in the 90th"
WOW I HAD NO CLUE! #sarcasm
Again, I said they needed to be replaced.
Please learn to comprehend before arguing with me, and stop ignoring SOJ's fuck ups to bring up Sonic Boom, the one U.S game that was made after SOJ spent 20 years tripping them from any freedom.
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Nope I do not sense it its just that most of the time when you are not busy saying how bad all of the things SOJ did and that all the power should be given to SOA that I often do agree with you so I just show up on most of your post and I of cause also read the comments.
Also can you Elaborat how the state of the company is bad since the mid 90th?
Also I didn't ignore SOJ fuck ups I directly said that Sega as a whole seams to be incompetent and that SOA just showed that are no better than SOJ. Not to mention that I also thing that the biggest source of issue currently is Izuka aka the guy that freely admits that he made Colors and Lost worlds to appeal to Mario fans, has Sonic 2 as his favorite sonic game and forgot most of the series lore including the shit he wrote.
Also how many other company's give there sub sections more freedom that SOA had in the past (especially given that during the 90th there had more power than SOJ despite SOJ being the lead of the company since 1952 and where this company actually became big in the first place)
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Then that means you only comment when I talk about this issue.
As for the rest of your comment, I could respond to them but one thing I read made me stop.
"Also can you Elaborat how the state of the company is bad since the mid 90th?"
If I actually have to do this, then you shouldn't have been debating me on this subject at all, especially when you only know SOA had freedom in the past. SOJ is responsible for everything that ruined the company, botched consoles and launches, cancelled Sonic games, mismanaging SOA out of spite, and fucked up Sonic to appease Nintendo fanboys, and the only thing you can say about SOA is Sonic Boom, after 2 decades of being screwed over by SOJ. It makes since now that you acknowledge that SOA isn't what they used to be yet understand that SOJ is the reason for it. Before coming back to this issue, you need to look at these 2 articles.
segaretro.org/Interview:_Tom_K…
www.sega-16.com/2005/02/tom-ka…
Here's a little bit from the first link.
Sega-16: It’s good that you mention that, as it must have been very difficult for Japanese game executives to see the American arm of their company leading the way, considering how poorly the Mega Drive was doing in Japan. Do you think that there was some resentment on their part over the Genesis’ success? Could this have been what caused them to exert more authority over how things were run?
Tom Kalinske: In hindsight, I think there probably was. I don’t believe there was from 1991-1993. I think somewhere in the mid ’90s, ’94 or ’95, they built up a great deal of resentment, and I didn’t realize it at the time, until probably the latter part of 1995, when one of my colleagues in Japan, who I knew well and had a good relationship with, said to me something to the effect of “you don’t understand how browbeat and annoyed the Japanese executives here are because of your success. Every meeting we go into, Nakayama asks us why can’t you do things the way the Americans and Europeans did? Why aren’t you guys as successful as they are? We’ve been around longer.” I think the local executives didn’t appreciate that he’d take that tone with them. Apparently, he also beat them up over Sonic, which was never as successful in Japan as it was in the U.S. and Europe (to this day, that’s the case), and I think he was always throwing that in their faces too. So clearly, by late ’95 there was great resentment built up: jealously, resentment, and kind of a desire to get back at those Americans that Nakayama kept throwing in their faces.
If you soak all that in and still don't understand SOJ is responsible for everything that happened, there's no use in debating this.
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Well its just that I often doesn't really have anything to say that wasn't already said in ether the post them self or in the comment section.
Okay first of all Was it also Japanese that made the Company great in the first place prior to moving to japan was Sega a no name company but in Japanese there eventually became the King of Arcade games.
Next would be as the interview said there weren't against SoA Ideas but let it make him do it anyway because Money > honor.
There first stared to interfere when SoA wasn't doing that well any more.
Also should I mention that SoA fucked up the Genesis extension marketing (not promoting the Mega CD enough and don't even make a big commercial for the CD's flagship game Sonic CD causing it to fail in the US harder than anywhere else) and is was also Kalinske that pushed for another live extension with the 32X which eventually would backfire big time by having 3th party produces not trusting Sega anymore because the didn't know for which platform there should go and which gets abandoned
or that SoA's make Nintendo look bad tactic failed the company the second Sony showed up because all of a sudden was there biggest rival not anymore just some lame plumper and a speechless fairy boy But a crazy Sonic clone and Cloud strife.(that doesn't mean SoJ was innocent like letting Nake get away with forbid Sega Technical institute to use the Nights into Dream engine)
And the fail of the Saturn was really not the fault of any section of sega but that fact that the Saturn was build to be the Ultimate 2D game console but PS1 and N64 killed 2D gaming for the next 10 years (and while the Saturn was still technical better than the PS1 had the Saturn the same issue the PS3 had its a bitch to program for)
And the Dreamcast failed for 2 reasons
1. The PS2 promo program just killed any interest in anything else beside the Xbox because Microsoft bought several prominent Development studios making it rather attractive for the fans of this studios.
2. By this time was thanks to the add-on policy of the Megadrive/genesis era that was caused by both SoJ and SoA plus the commercial failure of the Saturn outside of Japanese was caused that the trust 3th Party companies use to have in Sega was nearly completely lost.
So what beside the SatAm game and Extrem has SoJ actually done that was so bad and after the Saturn was only successful in Japaneses and the shown beta for Sonic Extrem looked anything but Promising was it just logical from a company standpoint to let SoJ now take over after SoA apparently lost there spark after 1994.
So i know SoJ was far from being perfect but after Sonys arise in 1994 started the American brunch form the company also to make many mistakes (and the entire Sega CS in 1993 was also a really problem).
Also yes Sega of Japan is since 2010 (arguable since 2008) of there meds but this is because every one with a mind left the company by this point and Takash Izuka is with out someone to keep him in line worse than even a unrestrained Georg Lucas or Akira Toriyama.
Some with SoA So if anything would the entire Company need a big change in management.
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Wow, literally everything her ignores the entire history between SOJ and SOA and just cherry picks certain issues. How you think SOA screws up with an extension after being responsible for taking Nintendo's console market away, and saying what good SOJ did after they mishandled the company, is just clear negligence. And FYI, I know Sega' history, you wont be able to switch up things when it suites you.
SOJ pushed the launch of the Saturn which screwed SOA because the retailers had a problem with it, not wanting to stop selling the Genesis. You're also trying to blame that lost of trust on the 32x which was not the case at all. SOA's tactic against Nintendo failing the company is a straight up lie, and Sony's involvement can't even be linked to that when Sega's advertised console wasn't even being backed by retailers. What backfired when Sony came in is when both Nintendo and SOJ decided not to work with them when Sony pitched their idea for a new console to one after the other, leading into the playstation. Most informed gamers know that story, so don't try to spin it. Also, Sony and Nintendo did practically kill 2D gaming, let's not gloss over the fact the N64 lost to the PS1 and next generations proved worse for Nintendo.
I know why the Dreamcast failed, so there's no point in telling me that story. Matter of fact, I don't know why you tried to tell me any of this when this was just about SOA vs SOJ, but it's clear you wanted to derail the subject while neglecting SOJ's bad decisions, jealousy, and failing to perform when it matter while hindering SOA in the process. The worse thing you can say about SOA were the add-ons but that it is nowhere near the screw ups SOJ committed which fucked the company over. Yeah, the Saturn sold well in Japan, but Japan is nowhere near is big as the states when it comes to sales so it hardly makes up for anything. To close this as well, as many people seem to ignore, SOJ has been in pretty much complete control of Sega since after the DC passed, yet since then they barely did anything to make the company better, they don't even advertise their games most of the time. Even if there was more dirt on SOA or they lost their spark, SOJ hasn't done shit outside of fuck up Sonic for trolls. The company could use new people but I'm not concerned with SOJ, they've chosen to only appeal to Japan and hardly do anything for us, most of their money doesn't even come from games, hence why I said they need to turn over Sonic to SOA(Because he's never been popular over there and they've done nothing to show they give a shit about him) and put them under better management.
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And you are cheery picking as well you after all want to say that SoA is a lot better than SoJ based on 3 to 4 years of actual Success while Sega didn't even become a company worth talking about until it moved to Japanese.
Of cause was SoJ pushing the Saturn the PS 1 launched in 1994 the sells of the Megadrive had gone back big time Sonic 3 didn't sell anywhere near as much as 1 and 2 and the Megadrive/Genesis was ever since Nintendo's Super FX Chip with was released in 1993 completely outdated SOA wanted to push a already half dead console.
Sega entire Marketing Campagne in America was Nintendo Sucks so buy Sega which obviously stopped working Sony rolls around with Serious titles and BIG add campaigns them self While the new Nintendo games thanks to there FX chip run cycles around the Megadrive with there sweet polygons and pre-rendered graphics and as I said did the first Hardware extension of the Megadrive fail in America because there was barley any marketing for the Mega CD.
And Of cause did SOJ say no to Sony because just like with Nintendo would the contract with Sony mean that Sony would co if not completely own all of Sega's licences for there games something nether Company wanted (especially Sega with when ever there out licensed something there demanded to own everything about this licensed Product)
And what has Sony steamrolling Nintendo to do with SoA Vs SoJ
I mention the Dreamcast failing to prevent you from using it as evidence that SoJ if worse because there killed Sega's involvement in the console marked.
You apparently didn't understand my Logic it doesn't matter that America is Bigger that Japanese the fact that SoA failed so hard at selling the Saturn that SoJ didn't better with the significantly smaller marked just didn't put SoA at the time in a pretty good light especially given that nether add one for the Genesis sold all that well makes the raise against Nintendo seam more like a one hit wounder.
And the time between SA1 to Shadow was Sega for a third party doing really well (with heroes being even the second best selling 3D sonic game) things went to shit when Nake (even if he could be an ass hole was he the one to stop Takashi from going Mad) leaved.
Also SoJ still let it to SoE and SoA to advertise in the respective regions so when there was a lack of advertisement was it sure no SoJ's flawed
And I totally agree that post 2010 Sega (between 06 and 09 were there still some bits of goodness) is made out of incompetent people.
But here a Question why would SoA all of a sudden become great again when replace the entire current staff but SoJ would not?
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"And you are cheery picking as well"
You can say that but you're trying to act as if what good SOJ has done absolves them of having the biggest screw ups and decisions in the company, and just naming off what mistakes SOA have made when none of them have proven to be as disastrous to the company. Not only that but you seem to think I'm doing the inverse with SOA when it's not the case, it's the fact their screw ups didn't result in hurting the company. The worst you can say about them is the CD, 32X, and Sonic Xtreme, which SOJ stopped themselves because of that engine. SOJ straight up killed a good console when it could've kept going, refused to partner up with Sony resulting in them kicking their ass later, their failure with the Mega drive, and their responsible for running out their U.S. and Japanese CEO's sometime after the Saturn, one of, if not the biggest reasons, this comapny fell apart.
"Of cause was SoJ pushing the Saturn the PS 1 launched in 1994 the sells of the Megadrive had gone back big time Sonic 3 didn't sell anywhere near as much as 1 and 2 and the Megadrive/Genesis was ever since Nintendo's Super FX Chip with was released in 1993 completely outdated SOA wanted to push a already half dead console."
You're pretty much just twisting this to fit your perception here. The Genesis was not dead, and the fact you neglect that retailers didn't want to stop selling them which was why they refused to take the Saturn's and trying to place the blame on Sonic 3 and the console shows this.
"Sega entire Marketing Campagne in America was Nintendo Sucks so buy Sega which obviously stopped working"
Only after the genesis was killed off by SOJ. Sony had nothing to do with it, stop lying.
"And Of cause did SOJ say no to Sony because just like with Nintendo would the contract with Sony mean that Sony would co if not completely own all of Sega's licenses for there games something nether Company wanted"
I've never heard anything about Sony going after their licenses and just wanted to partner up for a console. Either way, Sony did beat both in the end, but don't try to put it off on Sega's ads failing the company when SOJ pulled the Genesis.
"And what has Sony steamrolling Nintendo to do with SoA Vs SoJ"
Are you losing track of this conversation? You brought Sony up.
"or that SoA's make Nintendo look bad tactic failed the company the second Sony showed up"
So keep that question to yourself if you think Sony has nothing to do with SOA vs SOJ, I didn't bring them into this.
"You apparently didn't understand my Logic"
This isn't about your logic.
"it doesn't matter that America is Bigger that Japanese the fact that SoA failed so hard at selling the Saturn that SoJ didn't better with the significantly smaller marked"
Your still neglecting that retailers refused to even take the console here in the west. Also, you're quick to talk about how SOJ sold the Saturn but don't want to say anything about how they were barely a footnote in the console business until SOA stepped up. You can keep trying this but your "logic" is dead on arrival.
"And the time between SA1 to Shadow was Sega for a third party doing really well"
Yet the only went 3rd party in the first place because SOJ damn near went bankrupt after their HUGE success with the Saturn you keep going on about. Yeah, don't try to make their 3rd party outings a good thing when their only there because they almost lost their business to Sony.
"Also SoJ still let it to SoE and SoA to advertise in the respective regions so when there was a lack of advertisement was it sure no SoJ's flawed"
Aside from the fact that SOJ has full control of the company and treats both like lower class, even more with SOA. Also SOJ barely even makes games for people outside Japan that much, just look at how most of their roster in Project X Zone consist of games that are barely known outside of Japan.
"And I totally agree that post 2010 Sega (between 06 and 09 were there still some bits of goodness) is made out of incompetent people."
Good.
"But here a Question why would SoA all of a sudden become great again when replace the entire current staff but SoJ would not?"
Because of the way Sega is over their, caring more about politics then the games themselves while SOA is constantly held back by those very people. There's also the fact that realistically, there wont be a total replacement of Sega's management and staff, but that in itself is SOJ's problem, not SOA, who again, are only the way they are because of SOJ. SOA could use some replacement but only because fresh blood is needed to steer them the right way.
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It really doesn't to me neither as it feels like now they're slightly trying to be more active with the fans by doing very little.
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Either way, new people are needed for this franchise, and people who don't make things kiddy or light hearted just because "It's a cartoon animal". Just finished watching and hour long video on this being a problem for Ratchet and Clank with their reboot when compared to the original. Since i had never played the original, I had no idea how much Ratchet Lost his edge, and unlike Sonic, nobody asked for it, outside of complaining Ratchet was a jerk to Clank for most of the game, though their friendship was actually giving time to develop through that game.
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I jumped into Ratchet and Clank around Up Your Arsenal but i see what people are talking about.
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Actually I started there to.
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Looking at the reboot I didn't mind it too much though my attachment to Ratchet and Clank wasn't too loose nor was I completely gripped to it.
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Well I felt the same way, but not I have a different outlook on it now that I watched that video, and while I myself don't hate the game, I can understand those who would complain, since we're going through a more extreme case with Sonic.
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Well like I said I have no utter attachment I can enjoy and dislike with no real bias. I try (emphasis on the word try) to be a man of middle ground.
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If that's the case that's just dumb. Sonic is not Mario, what is so hard to understand about that?
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You're talking about people who made it a point bash games for not being like or too similar, but for some reason Sonic is the only franchise they deem NEEDS to be like him. What makes it hard to understand for these people is their own lunacy.
Also, need to meme this.
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