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ScarecrowsMainFan โ Imperial Guard vs. UNSC
Published: 2013-05-21 05:04:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 10351; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 9
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In the age of fiction, there are many times when humanity is guarded from destruction by only an elite few. But what if they were to face each other?Imperial Guard: The Imperial Guard is the primary fighting force of the Imperium, without it, Mankind would surely perish. While not as widely praised as the Space Marines, the Guard possesses the courage and the manpower to face and annihilate the enemies of the Emperor across the galaxy whether they be ferocious Tyranids, or the demonic forces of Chaos itself.
UNSC: The United Nations Space Command is a military government with an army of elite marines and legendary Spartans who have defended the human race from invasions of both the Covenant and the Flood. No matter how unnumbered or outmatched, the forces of the UNSC have safeguarded mankind against total annihilation.
Now the defenders of mankind for two very different fictions will raise their guns once more against an all to human opponent. They have fought and bled and died across the stars for their race, but only one can reign supreme! Will the will of the Emperor guide the Guard to victory? Or will the might of the United Nations Space Command prove superior? Ready your weapons, and don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes! Now tell me, dear viewer, who shall live to fight another day! Tell me--
WHO! IS! DEADLIEST!
(Disclaimer: Just to be clear, these two combatants were created / are owned by people far more creative / wealthier then me. I have mde this, not for profit, but in the hopes of encouraging spirited discussion among fans. Please support the combatants official series.Thank you, that is all).
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Comments: 212
Guardsmen....No doubt.
Guard Flak Armor can take small arms fire like it's nothing.
A Guardsmans Lasgun can penetrate Space Marine Armor if hit correctly. UNSC Marine armor should be no problem.
Not to mention the Guards have the Baneblade....What does the UNSC have? The Scorpion? That tank blows...Literaly.
And Guardsmen are probably better trained and have more experiance then UNSC Marines. And Master Chief? Please, he'll get his ass handed to him by an Imperial Commisar.
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make sure its a lord commissar !
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I'd shit my pants if a Lord Commissar walked up to me and say "YOU! You now fight for the GLOREH OF THE EMPRAH"
Me: SIR YES SIR, PLEASE DON'T BLAM ME, SIR
Commissar: Requsting not to be blammed.....THAT'S HERESY! *BLAM*
*Ahem*....Point being....Commissars are SCURY!
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lol
wellย commissar's dont recrute troops, he makes the dicciplin and is a regimental advisor.
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Imperium in a stomp. Better tech, better vehicles, more numerous. Make it the Stormtrooper Corps. (Star Wars), and you have sort of a match.
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Guard. I say the UNSC's training could match it, but like Alteser said, the Guard have massive numbers on their side. It might be a stalemate for sometime, but At one point or another, the UNSC is gonna give
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SPARTANS!! led by master chief this would be an awesome war! at least the spartans would be able to fight a war without alien lazor manipulating guns, tanks, and what not XD just back to ol' fashion lead
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having to deal with alien lazor manipulating guns that is,
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Could MC really handle a minimum of 5 million troops at a time, he can barely handle 10 covenants at a time in the games.
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that is irrelevent. also, this comment is 2 years old so i don't really care anymore lol
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Evenly matched in combat, but guardsmen have numbers. The UNSC couldn't stop the Covies because they were too many. Guardsmen have very large regiments and when push comes to shove they get like five companies in a war if they need to.
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It is likely the UNSC will run out of ammo BEFORE the Fifth company company would arrive.
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Spartans have the upper hand due to training and armor.
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yes but the spartans even with all their training and armor were overwhelmed at the covies numbers, the same factor applies, the guard is a massive army
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The Imperial Guard no doubt. The Laser guns win. UNSC weapons are weak but at least not as bad as mass effect weapons.
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How are freekin hand held automatic mass accelerator weapons bad?
(Except for the rather slow TTK in ME games since they are slower paced RPG/3PS hybrids)
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Simple math, they bullet size is so small that the extra speed means that say the widow clocks in at force wise less than a .50 cal sniper rifle, your best cannon clocks in power wise at 128 kilotons and that is referring to the reapers.
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LOL dude
Verpine Shatter gun from Star Wars:easy to make as large as a pistol and can fire small rocks with such speed that they pass right through tank armour and to top it off you can make them badass big and they still give almost no sound at all.
Size does not always matter.....at least not with railgin/gauss etc. weaponry.
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Not true. Having the Halo and Mass Effect books, one can compare them and see that while MA5s just seem to be fairly comparable to modern guns Mass Acceslerators like M-8 Avenger are much more powerful. They tear through boulders in seconds (Mass Effect Paragon Lost), can rip people in half in a furry of rounds (Retribution) , and frequently is described as turning flesh into "hamburger meat"(almost all novels) . I haven't seen the MA5 do any of this. Forget the damn calcs when direct effects come into play, I have seen nothing that UNSC can compete on the ground with Mass Effect. In space however that is a different matter
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Mass Effect Paragon Lost also breaks canon like a Halo anime, Matt Ward's writing, or mister multilasers. I was also comparing to modern guns, not a big Halo fan I am a Warhammer 40k fan.
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Hmm unfortunately since 40k's cannon policy is "everything and nothing is cannon" Matt Ward is still cannon, as is multilasers. Sure sucks that it is though.
Paragon Lost doesn't really break canon its descriptions of damage seem fairly in line with the books, which are all cannon except Diet'z fiasco. I'd wager Mass Accelerators probably superior to modern guns in many forms, while Halo UNSC guns might actually be less then those. Also not a Halo fan personally I am a 40k/ME/SC fan.
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I guess he just didnt know his "simple math" very well, but sometimes the mass effect lore is also kina going over the top.
Anyhow, handeld mass accelerators working with a miracle element, having batteries beeing small and powerfull enough to store and discharge that amount of energy, beeing able to calculare, form and chamber a tiny slug from a block of metal in milliseconds, thats some serious hightech shit, and without a doubt, they would hit hard, very hard.
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Indeed man, I am really impressed with what they they do in the codexes and their description in Paragon Lost seems pretty accurate given what is said in there. Definately better then UNSC weapons IMo
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Havnt watched Paragon Lost yet.
Kinda every Scifi universe has better weapons than the UNSC.
But well what do you expect, Halo is Scifi's CoD. Kinda always remind me of the funny discussion with a dude a Gamecon "Master Chief dealt with Needlers and Plasma Weapons, a Bolter would scratch him!" "Sure, a .75 cal Gyrojet Propelled Hardened Diamantine/Depleted Uranium Tipped Mass Reactive Explosive Slug wouldnt scratch his sissy armor... suuuuuure" XD
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Well ive never found any exact numbers on the handheld weapons slug size our speed, only stuff like "tiny metal slugs" and "up to 1.5% of light speed".
Now that we neither know the size of each weapons projectile, the material its made of and its muzzle velocity, its kinda a imposilbe to say how powerfull those weapons are.
Now lets see, .50cal, heavy one is 51,8 gram and fastest muzzle velocity is 928m/s, thats calculated with basic g/m/s "22304.6656 (E) joule"
Now lets say a Widow fires a 2x10mm cylinder slug, thats 0,13cmยณ, now lets say the slugs are made out of tungsten (19,3 g/cm3 (20 ยฐC)), now thats a 2,509 gram slug. Now lets say 0,1% Lightspeed (1,5% for a hand held weapon sounds crazy...) aka 299792,458m/s. Now just basic g/m/s gets you a wooping "112748837.1725 (E) joule", thats 5054,944072889396 times the power of a .50 cal. I dont believe that any handheld weapon in mass effect does have that kind of power, but even the small 2x10mm/2,509gram tungsten slug would have the same energy as a .50 cal if it travels at 4218m/s (22310.5711 (E) joule).
Still sounds like mass effect weapons would be weaker than our current day ones?
Oh and i dont know where you got that 128 kilotons thing on a Reapers Magnetic-Hydrodynamic Cannon (which actually fires a mass increase highly accelerated beam of molten metal over up to several seconds), but even if it would "only" be 128 kilotons, show me a cannon which can to that without some kind of explosive ordnance.
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" 2x10mm cylinder slug" if it fired that, even though mass effect rounds fire bullets the size of a grain of sand, ala ME1 codex.
"show me a cannon which can to that without some kind of explosive ordnance."
Cannon no, bomb yes, there was a arms race for it remember. "The theoretical maximum yield-to-weight ratio for fusion weapons (thermonuclear weapons) is 6 megatons of TNT per metric ton of bomb mass" also known as 6000 kilotons, so tell me why they did not think of using the most destructive weapon conceived by man against the most OR threat in SCI FI?
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It never said what weapons fires slugs the size of sand (a Widow would propably fire a larger slug than a little smg or pistol), and never said which sand grain (ranges from 0.063 mm to 2.0 mm depending on the grain.)
But even if we go with a 0.5x0.5mm zylinder (medium sand grain) at 0.1% lightspeed it would still pack 84995.2773 (E) joule. Still 3.81 times the power of a .50 cal.
Hence why i said "explosive ordnance", that includes fusion warheads.
Now a 6000 Kiloton Warhead wouldnt compare to a 128 Kiloton cannon in space combat. Thats also simple math.
Why you ask, simple: those 6000 Kilotons get spread in a full expanding sphere, even 10 meters after that it louses a lot of that energy thanks to expanding. And there is no air in space, remember?, so nothing which could carry the explosives force over distance. And also remember than the explosions velocity matters, if 6000 Kiloton is the explosives basic force, it also still matters at what speed it will impact, aka how fast it transfers its kinetic energy. Since it expands, it also looses impact velocity over distance, as the initial wave of expanding material would still travel at the maximum expansion speed of the explosion, but would only carry a steadly decreasing amount of its total force, as that force has to fill the expanding sphere.
A cannon on the other hand focuses all that power on a single small point, making it much more powerfull that just a simple fusion bomb.
In short: Its the most destructive weapon inside an atmosphere, in space its nothing more than a big fancy firecracker, while a cannon with in total les kinetic force will wreck someones day, simple because it transfers its energy much more quickly and a very narrow point.
To make a "Bomb" of any kind usefull in space, you would either have to get it inside the ship our shape the charge (focusing the power at a narrow point).
And we didnt even touch the point on shields, remember kinetic barriers used by all those space ships and armors? Well, a simple missile would propably just be repulsed by those shields like a mass accelerator slugs. But hey, in ME they use some kind of "Missile", the Disruptor Torpedo:
"Disruptor torpedoes are powered projectiles with warheads that create random and unstable mass effect fields when triggered. These fields warp space-time in a localized area. The rapid asymmetrical mass changes cause the target to rip itself apart.
In flight, torpedoes use a mass-increasing field, making them too massive for enemy kinetic barriers to repulse. The extra mass gives the torpedoes a very sluggish acceleration, making them easy prey for defensive GARDIAN weapons. As a result, torpedoes have to be launched at very close range."
Oh yes, i did also forgott that GARDIAN Lasers might wreck that Fusion Bomb before it even gets close.
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[link]
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Just some threads to let you know how crappy the UNSC weapons and vehicles really are
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For the sake of argument, sure.
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Then it would be the Imperial Guard.
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Really? Why is that? And suppose I said no reinforcements? Would you have gone UNSC?
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Sheer numbers alone guarantee the the win for the IG.
UNSC troops literally run out of ammo.
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Yes, because the Master Chief has turned the tides of battle where the enemy is much more advanced and his luck is of epic proportions. Along with the new equipment the UNSC has access to, and the amount of Spartans on it's side, I believe the UNSC can pull a victory out of this.
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...nah, the IG is more advanced that the Covenant and its weapons far more powerful, the UNSC is in problems.
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Covie Plasma weapons are far more deadly than a Lasgun and in certain things the Covenant is more advanced than the Imperium. Not to mention the bigassed,suicidal,zealot aliens they are is also a big plus
Let's see how would a few Guardsmen fare vs a single Sangheli (Elites) in melle without an enegy blade.
It has shields,nice armour, is trained to be a warrior from birth and would rather die than be captured or even just for having fear, it's almost 3m tall, is far stronger than a human and it can kill you just by sitting on you....literally.
And this is just with bare hands! Give em a plasma rifle or pistol and it can take care of a dozen Guardsmen in 30 seconds.
Jirralhanae (Brutes) are even worse having little to no regard for personal safety and just wanting to kill stuff.
Yanma Ye or something 
Kig Yar (Jackals) are about as large and as physicaly powerfull as a human.They are considered the scum of the Covenant but they still fight well.They come equiped with handheld energy shields and plasma pistols or needlers.They make exellent scouts and snipers and when in that role use mostly the Covenant Carbine (it fires highly radioactive shells at high speeds and if the shot does not kill you the radiation later will) and Beamers which are extremely powerfull.
Unggoy (Grunts) are small and weak but multiply very very fast (almost as much as the Drones) and serve to defeat the enemy with sheer numbers.While not the most fearless soldiers many are known to go in a suicide frenzy with plasma granades.They can pack plasma pistols,needlers and even Fuel Rod guns (something like Covenant rocket launchers) and other weapons.
P.S. Everyone i have listed carry plasma granades
Mgallekgolo (Hunters) are massive collonies of worm like creatures with incredible size and strenght.Hunters always travel in packs of two (and if one dies the other one is filled with rage and starts killing everything) they are very hard to kill and are ruthless in melle combat.They have Fuel Rod Cannons for weapons and can devastate massive numbers of troops by themselves.
Well that's it i have not listed the Sanshyyum (Prophets) and the Engineers because they don't actually fight but they are very important.
I'm too lazy to talk about Covie viechles but you should know that they are very effective and reliable things.
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*facepalm*
oh god, not this argument. Spartans aren't invincible, and assuming even limited numbers for both, the IG has more elite troops than the spartans could hope for. they have entire regiments that laugh in the face of ODST and probably spartan 4s.
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While I doubt that the IG has guys at the level of the 2s and 3s, everybody laughs at the poor and idiotic 4s XD.
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Do they have troops on the level of 2s and 3s? absolutely not. but they have such a great number of storm troopers and entire regiments of "elite" guardsmen that the few hundred spartans start to matter less and less. Not to mention that almost everything in the imperial guard arsenal above a lasgunwill take out spartan armor in a couple, if not 1, shots.
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Really? Then explain to me these troops instead of just making claims, because it makes you look like a fanboy otherwise.
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Armageddon Steel Legion, a regiment that faced down the numericall superior orks in 3 massive battles, experts of mechanized warfare, The Armageddon Steel Legion make use of Grenade Launchers and Missile Launchers. The preferred armoured vehicles are Leman Russ Battle Tanks, with Vanquishers serving as command vehicles, though they are known to include a few Leman Russ Executioners. Artillery is usually Basilisks, Bombards and Manticores, while super-heavy vehicles are typically Baneblades and Shadowswords.
Cadian shock troopers: these solidiers live on a world where demon invasions are a normal thing. As a fortress world, the entire population of Cadia is under arms. Cadian children are taught to strip, assemble and shoot a Lasgun before they are taught how to write.As soon as they are of age, every Cadian teenager is inducted into the Youth Armies, organized into Whiteshield platoons and trained under grueling conditions at a castellum. When not in combat alongside the Shock Troopers these Youth Armies fight mock battles against each other in the Cadian wilderness. The best and most promising of these cadets are selected for special training, eventually joining the elite Kasrkin Storm Troopers.As a heavily industrialized and militarized planet, Cadia is able to supply the Shock Troopers with the finest equipment available. Their uniforms are camouflaged to suit the various terrains found in the Cadian wilderness.[4a] The M36 Kantrael lasrifle, the stock lasgun of the Shock Troopers, is noted for its robustness compared to other lasgun marks.[4b] The standard Cadian tri-dome helmet and mark XI re-breather allows Shock Troopers to withstand poison and gas attacks, as well as plague weapons, and permit limited operation within an airless environment.[3b] Officers are also noted for wearing a distinctive gorget used to contain refractor field generators.[3b] Cadian-pattern Grenade Launchers are the preferred squad support weapon of Cadian infantry,[3c] a twenty-round drum-fed weapon which fires 40mm Frag and Krak grenades with considerable recoil,[11b] while autocannons are favored among heavy weapon squads.[3c]
Sentinels, especially the Cadian-pattern Sentinel, as well as Hellhounds are used for a variety of roles, while Chimeras are the standard personnel carrier.[5c] For armour support the Cadians favour the Leman Russ Battle Tank and Demolisher variant, though they also make use of the Vanquisher, Conqueror, and Executioner. More rare vehicles include the Destroyer Tank Hunter. Super-heavy vehicles include the Baneblade, Shadowsword Stormblade and Stormsword. Salamander Scout and Command vehicles are also used for reconnaissance, while Basilisks, Griffons, Medusa Siege Tanks and Manticores provide artillery support.Anti-aircraft duty is fulfilled by Hydra Flak Tanks and Manticore variants, while static weapon systems include the Tarantul aand other Weapons Platforms. Support functions such as vehicle recovery or resupply are fulfilled by dedicated vehicles including the Trojan and Atlas. each cadian soldier is an expert marksman who has faced down countless enemies far more horrifying than covenant, spartans or ODST.
The Catachan Jungle Fighters are the Imperial Guard Regiments from Catachan, possibly the most notorious Death World in the Imperium. A world where the very plants could wipe out an army of UNSC marine in seconds. every thing on that world is just made to kill humans, and these guys survive and thrive in it. Because of this, Catachans have a well-deserved reputation as the deadliest jungle-warfare experts in the galaxy. Extremely resourceful and uncompromising warriors, they are deadly up close with their specialised close combat blades or from ambush with their lasguns. In jungle terrain they are unsurpassed, with each Catachan being worth ten of any other regimen
The Death Korps of Krieg are Imperial Guard Regiments raised from the world of Krieg. Notoriously grim and fatalistic warriors, they seek to atone for their planet's past rebellion by dying glorious deaths in service to the Imperium. For this purpose, Death Korps regiments routinely request to fight in the galaxy's deadliest warzones, grinding their enemy down through long battles of attrition and siege warfare
The Elysian Drop Troops are Imperial Guard Regiments known for their rapid deployment capabilities, often deploying by rappelling or grav-chutes from Valkyrie Airborne Troop Carriers at high altitudes. These drop regiments are able to strike deep into enemy territory, specilising in ambushing the enemy or capturing important objectives, and can operate for extended periods of time without resupply. basically the ODST, with better equipment. The standard weapon of the Elysian Drop Trooper is the Accatran pattern, mark IV Lasgun, a lightweight 'bullpup' design with the power cell positioned behind the handle to save on weight and space for additional equipment. It uses a standard power pack and operates in the 19 megathule range, allowing for fifty shots, and has a built-in flashlight. However the weapon is restricted to semi-automatic fire only in order to prevent waste and conserve ammunition.[1b][2b] A variant known as the Mk IVc includes a single-shot auxiliary grenade launcher firing Krak grenades underneath the main barrel as is typically issued to officers and NCOs for additional squad support firepower.[1b][2b] A third variant known as the Mk IVe is a sniper weapon with an elgonated barrel, flash suppressor and integral low-light scope.[2b] Many regiments also equip themselves with assault shotguns for close-range firepower.[1b] A favourite of these is the Accatran pattern, model 34,[2b] although some will use illegal sawed-off shotguns instead, a practice seen in some elite units and overlooked by their officers.[2a] Meanwhile officers and specialists will be equipped with Accatran pattern, Mk II laspistols, which use the same power pack as lasguns, and a range of special weapons include Voss pattern grenade launchers, and Accatran models of Flamers, Plasma Guns and Meltaguns.[2b] Demolition Charges are provided to special teams tasked with destroying hardened targets.[1c] Elysian heavy weapons focus on transportability, as certain weapons such as lascannons are too cumbersome for use by air-mobile troops. Instead they will use Heavy Bolters, Missile Launchers and Mortars, which can be easily air-dropped in drop canisters and collected by their crew
The Mordian Iron Guard are Imperial Guard regiments from the planet Mordian. A harsh and unforgiving planet given to extremes, it is ruled in the Emperor's name by a body known as the Tetrarchs. The rule of the Tetrarchs is harsh, autocratic and above all absolute, a necessity due to planet's scarce and strictly-rationed resources. This environment has bred a regimental system dedicated to the chain of command and an iron discipline at all levels. The Mordian Iron Guard are named and renowned for their iron resolve and their dour and unforgiving natures.Their preferred squad special weapon is the Grenade Launcher while the Lascannon is the principle heavy weapon.
Tallarn Desert Raiders: With so little to offer the Imperium besides manpower, Tallarn has made exporting soldiers its primary contribution to mankind. History dictates the future, and Tallarn is no exception to this. Following the desecration of their homeworld during the Horus Heresy by the Iron Warriors, the Tallarn have been forced to make use of Mechanised Armour and APC's in order to safely move their infantry across the barren wasteland of their homeworld. As a result, the Tallarn Desert Raiders are also well known in their use of armoured warfare and their tank crews are some of the most renowned in the Imperium. Honing their skills on their homeworld, Tallarn are mobile guerrilla fighters, evasive and opportunistic.[11] They are well known for their hard-fighting Sentinel squadrons and are masters of hit-and-run warfare. Their chief strength lies in their skill in guerrilla warfare, which makes use of various mounts as well as numerous Sentinel squadrons to remain highly mobile on the battlefield, harrying their opponents mercilessly before disappearing into the background. Noted marksmen, Tallarn forces employ a unique style of lasgun which is longer and more fluid in shape than the standard Imperial Guard issue.[Needs Citation]
Some Tallarn Rough Rider squadrons ride large alien mounts, called Mukaali. These desert-dwelling herbivores are originally indigenous to the vast equatorial deserts of Goru-Prime. Many Mukaali have been transported to other desert worlds, including Tallarn itself, because they are well adapted to arid environments.[Needs Citation] As well as infantry, artillery and armoured companies, it is not uncommon for Tallarn regiments to include one or more patrol companies (sometimes referred to as recon or long range companies). Tallarn Armored units emphasize the three doctrines of their homeworld: stealth, swiftness, and the killing blow.[5][11]
The Tanith First, more commonly known as the Tanith First and Only, was an Imperial Guard Regiment raised during the Sabbat Worlds Crusade. They were also colloquially known as "Gaunt's Ghosts", after their commanding officer, Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt.
Primarily light infantry, the name "Ghosts" referred to their superlative stealth and reconnaissance skills, but it was also a melancholy reminder of the fact that their homeworld, Tanith, was destroyed by the forces of Chaos shortly after their initial Founding.he Tanith are unparalleled scouts, marksmen, masters of stealth tactics, and excellent light infantry. They are said to possess an unerring sense of direction, traits developed for survival on a planet where the nalwood forests actually move to conceal the path taken. While the Verghastite and Belladon infantrymen do not have this uncanny knack, they are also proven light infantry specialists, with Verghastite Hive City backgrounds in particular complementing the talents of the Tanith woodsmen. The First and Only excels in stealth infiltration missions, but has proven particularly tenacious in defensive operations in urban terrain. [Needs Citation]
Even amongst such light infiltration infantry as the Tanith, there is always room for the truly elite. In the Ghosts these take on two forms:
The aptly named Scouts, led by Chief Scout Sergeant Oan Mkoll, specialise in reconnaissance and covert operations. The scout elites were dominated by Tanith natives.[Needs Citation]
The Sniper division, which tended to be dominated by the Verghastites, especially several female snipers who joined after the Siege of Vervunhive.
The Valhallan Ice Warriors are the Imperial Guard Regiments from the Ice world of Valhalla. Valhallan soldiers are famous for their tenaciousness in holding their ground against even the most hopeless odds, and their ability to suffer the most appalling casualties without breaking.The Ice Warriors are stoic and unwavering when on the defensive, resolutely holding their ground against fearful odds where other troops would consider it a good idea to flee. Enemies have often found that Valhallan defending forces need to be completely destroyed to capture the held ground. Valhallans are trained to fight in dense formations to support their morale. When on the offensive, Valhallans combine massed artillery barrages and infantry wave assaults. The morale of regiments is often backed up by attached Ministorum Priests.
Vostroyans are disdainful of Imperial Guard regiments which they consider to be less devoted than themselves. They are strictly disciplined and act as a warrior brotherhood when in the field. They specialize in urban and winter style combat.The Vostroyan Firstborn prefer to use Plasma Guns and Heavy Bolters. Their pattern of Lasgun, produced on Vostroya, is known for its fine hand-crafted detail.
These are jsut some of the elite named regiments, each having hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of soldiers each.
Then we have the stormtroopers and orgryn troopers.
So yes, while none of those soldiers may individually be as good as a spartan, there are many more of them and each is fearless and ready to die in the name of the empire. Any tactics used by the spartans and ODST are nothing shocking or new to these troops. they regularly face psychic space elves with hyper advanced technology, a race of technologically advanced (far more than the covenant) race that uses extreme tactics, mech suits and ion pulse weaponry, sadistic dark eldar whose technology is pseudo magic and made to maximize pain and suffer, the irks who are a relentless enemy that keeps on coming, the tyranids who are the zerg X5, and reality warping demons of chaos.
You were saying?
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"the tyranids who are the zerg X5"
I know people that would argue with you to disclaim that XD. The Zerg are weaker than the Nids, but not by much depending on certain sources.
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well it was an exaggeration, unless we want to get into the numbers of it, then its more like zerg X50000!
the nids seems to have better feats of durability, better weapons, better adaptability, more numbers, having psykers, etc. But yes, it is only the degree of which tyranids outclass zerg that is disputable
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I was saying that you are a 40k fanboy. Now I realised you are a tunnel-visioned Warhammer 40k fanboy who exaggerates everything and can't stand 40k losing anything but the most overwhelmingly obvious defeats. What clued me in first was this bit;
"Tanith are unparalleled scouts"
No, just no. Even me, who knows about only a small portion of 40k lore, knows that the Dark Eldar have unparalleled (or at least leagues and bounds better) scouts. Now, because of this statement and other statements, I can't take anything you say as fact and am hard pressed to take anything you say seriously. Also, the Imperial Guard are not fearless otherwise Commissars would have never been introduced in the tabletop game.
While it is true that the Imperial Guard have fought more frightening foes then the UNSC, it is also true that the UNSC have fought more frightening foes than the Imperial Guard, they're only human after all. However, the UNSC were usually outnumber and at a technological disadvantage, where as the Imperial Guard is either more advanced or more numerous than their foes.
Spartans II's will at least excel in almost all of the areas of specializations listed in your reply, with the obvious exceptions being demons, but then their not fighting demons. That fact that you pointed out in your wall of text is that it will take more than nine different Imperial Regiments (groups, whatever) to put together the same skill set you will find in one Spartan. Spartan IIs are much better trained than Imperial Guard infantry because they are trained in all forms of warfare in order to fight a mostly formless and mostly invisible army, where as the Imperial Guard regiments tend to be heavily specialized. I'd expand on that and go into Spartan IIIs and IVs, but it would be a waste of time considering your previously mentioned tunnel-vision.
Before you go spouting that I never proved Spartans are invincible, (a point I never made,) I will say that you never proved that the Imperial Guard "has more elite troops than the spartans could hope for". In fact, that wall of text is just a fancy way of saying that the Imperial guard does not have "more elite troops than the spartans could hope for". If the quality, NOT quantity, of information in you next reply does not improve (with respect to your previous reply,) I will end this debate between us because I don't want it to deteriorate into an argument.
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No, you wanna name call then this is certainly an argument now, but i'll try to keep it civil and pertain to the topic at hand, and not your utter hypocrysy.
First off, thats straight off the wiki, which is in turn quoted almost directly from the codecies and novels. And it is all in regards to the imperial army. Bringing in elite troops from other far more powerful (on an individual level of course)
Yes i was talking about quantity, spartans are better than guardsmen, but they number in the hundreds. In a large scale engagement the named regiments would still outnumber the spartans by a large margin. The higher quality of spartans will not be abel to get rid of that edge. So yes, it does take 9 regiments to equal the skill set of a spartan, but in a large scale engagement that we are talking about it doesn't hurt the IG in any way.
Perhaps saying fearless was the wrong word, my mistake. Its true for those named regiments, but for the normal guardsmen its a greater fear in their commisar than their enemy.
Normal guardsmen can't hold a candle to the spartans, but again their numbers do win out in this one. a spartan can kill a dozen IG, but eventually his armor is going down. i would also argue that the UNSC marines have better training, but IG have better weapons, better morale and better vehicle and artillery support.
then on a large scale battle, the UNSC also have to deal with things vastly better than covenant weapons, massive tanks, relentless firepower and a higher quantity of elite troops that can be replaced.
So heres what im going to do. You can prove spartans are better troops and i would actually agree to that. the spartan is better troop than anything the IG has in quality. But can you prove that the UNSC would beat the Imperial guard, with all things considered on both sides? Impress me, i really want to see how they would do it because every major thread on the internet, and my better judgement tells me that the Imperial guard would win here without too much difficulty.
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Sorry for the name calling, that was wrong. It's just I asked in a polite fashion for you to enlighten me and then you respond in what I interpreted as an arrogant I-am-better-than-you attitude for a second time and that really irked me. Hopefully I read that wrong.
1. This is not the Imperial Guard vs Spartans, this is not even the named regiments of the Imperial Guard vs Spartans, this is the UNSC vs the Imperial Guard, don't try to make it something else. Apoligies if you are not trying to make it something else.
2. You serverly underestimate the ability of better trained forces. Some example include;
When the Greeks beat back the Persians. 600 Greek Soldiers vs 1,000,000 Persian soldiers.
When Ghangis Khan had control of a majority of Eurasia. Bowmen on horses vs the best armor in the world at the time*.
The fact that the Taliban still exist (unfortunately,) even after over a decade against the US Army.
3. Commissars make themselves a target with the way they are dressed, a fact that I'm sure the guardsmen will be happy about. The Guardsmen are probably better commanders anyway. I am unsure of how this would play out. On one hand the Guardsmen will be more afraid of running than fighting, on the other the Guardsmen will have someone more competent for a leader. Of course this may just be my bias against team-killers acting up.
4. I'm pretty sure a Spartan can kill more than a dozen Guardsmen considering what they where made to fight. Also because the Spartans will steal the better weaponry and vehicles.
5. I'm saying that if the Imperial guard don't receive reinforcements the UNSC would win, so please don't say things like "troops that can be replaced" because that has already been ruled out. We both know that if the Imperial Guard were receiving reinforcement they'd drown the UNSC in bodies, alive or otherwise.
6. Better morale is an unreliable statement. There is nothing to suggest that the UNSC or the Imperial Guard are more motivated than the other. While Imperial Guard is quite fanatically devoted to fight for the Emperor, the UNSC have a LOT more to lose if they lose.
I believe that if the UNSC keeps the pressure up on the front-lines, with the Spartans infiltrating behind enemy lines sabotaging supply lines, hit strategic locations, assassinating key people, and drawing Imperial Guard squads into favourable battles, the UNSC could win. It wouldn't be easy, it wouldn't be quick, and it has a good chance of being Pyrrhic, but I believe the UNSC would manage a victory. One thing is certain though, a sitcom with a Guardsman and a marine would be worth a watch.
* In this era, armor had caught up with, and even in some ways surpassed weapons.
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my apologies as well for any hard feelings. But anyways, in regards to the debate.
If this was 1 million vs one million in a no reinforcements battle, the imperial guard would still win this.
On the front lines it isn't just marines vs guardsmen, there is also vehicle support and artillery support. for the imperial guard this is where they really stand out, and the UNSC really does not have much that could stand up to the massive weapons of the Imperial guard, while they also lack equivalent artillery and vehicles. by wiping out many of the UNSC vehicles while in turn keeping many of theirs, things start tipping heavily in favor of the IG.
where there are spartans sabotaging in the back of the IG forces, there are storm troopers and squads from some of the named regiments doing the same thing to the UNSC. the spartans will take over some weapons and vehicles, but this won't be enough to turn things back in their favor.
time, the UNSC is going to be more and more reliant on infantry backed by very few vehicles, which will severely hurt their supply lines and in turn make things much harder for them. the lack of reinforcements actually hurts the UNSC because now they are unable to gain back their vehicle support that they otherwise would have if normal planetary conquest tournament rules were in place.
at the end, the UNSC may have the better elites and better training, but the guardsmen don't fall too far behind and the named regiments likely surpass even the ODST in training. IN infantry, i have to give it to the Imperial guard for better weapons and better training for about half of their forces. elites would go to UNSC for the spartans. Armor, cavalry, artillery and airforce all go to the imperial guard by a large margin.
If this was a pure infantry and elites battle it could go the way of the UNSC, but the vehicle and artillery support, as well as the experience, will let this go to the Imperial guard for a victory.
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These are good points. One question before I make my final decision, how do vox-casters transmit to each other? Is it radio waves, through the warp, I just want to know if it would be possible for the UNSC to intercept transmissions.
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It is radio i believe, and there would always be the possibility of transmissions being intercepted. Most vox-casters are used for inter-squad transmissions, though there are long ranged ones used for basic coordination. most of the interactions in the imperial guard seems to take place within the regiments.
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How easy/hard would it be for AI like Cortana to decrypt the transmissions or would the signals deteriorate too fast? I am referring to inter-squad transmissions.
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