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ScarecrowsMainFan β Imperial Guard vs. UNSC
Published: 2013-05-21 05:04:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 10352; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 9
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In the age of fiction, there are many times when humanity is guarded from destruction by only an elite few. But what if they were to face each other?Imperial Guard: The Imperial Guard is the primary fighting force of the Imperium, without it, Mankind would surely perish. While not as widely praised as the Space Marines, the Guard possesses the courage and the manpower to face and annihilate the enemies of the Emperor across the galaxy whether they be ferocious Tyranids, or the demonic forces of Chaos itself.
UNSC: The United Nations Space Command is a military government with an army of elite marines and legendary Spartans who have defended the human race from invasions of both the Covenant and the Flood. No matter how unnumbered or outmatched, the forces of the UNSC have safeguarded mankind against total annihilation.
Now the defenders of mankind for two very different fictions will raise their guns once more against an all to human opponent. They have fought and bled and died across the stars for their race, but only one can reign supreme! Will the will of the Emperor guide the Guard to victory? Or will the might of the United Nations Space Command prove superior? Ready your weapons, and don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes! Now tell me, dear viewer, who shall live to fight another day! Tell me--
WHO! IS! DEADLIEST!
(Disclaimer: Just to be clear, these two combatants were created / are owned by people far more creative / wealthier then me. I have mde this, not for profit, but in the hopes of encouraging spirited discussion among fans. Please support the combatants official series.Thank you, that is all).
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Comments: 212
Hmmm, well they are radio signals so it shouldn't be too hard to get them for an AI. The problem would be trying to understand what they are saying, as the imperial guard squads likey speak I military slang similar to many other forces.
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I think that an AI as powerful as Cortana would be able to decode squad slang.
~TheMonkeysUnkle pointed out that "You can't really put in "IG doesn't get reinforcements", because then it's no longer IG vs UNSC.".
This is a point I believe you tried to make but I didn't see it, sorry about that. It would be like saying that the UNSC don't get Spartans, it just wouldn't be right. I can't really argue against this point so I have to concede that I was wrong, because you can't take the reinforcements out of the Imperial Guard.
I feel silly now.
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(five years late I know but Im board and tired. sorry)
well...there are a few things. 1. Some regements have "battle language" codes and literal languages to stop said information. As well as language
2. low gothic that is not really any known language but general accepted as.....british....(cockney for the orks) but I digress.Β
The very fact of AI wouldΒ drive most guards enginseers beserk as well as AI are known for the whole. Men of Iron indecent. as well as the languages of the regements themselfs are not any known languages outside of a few words. all the planets are connected via trade,religion, lose ties in languages and general survival to a point.Β
squad slang is even more codded though as it lives off of thesquads personal events. not the culture of the planet they are from persay.Β as most regements are allready vets to a degree depending on how fresh they are.Β
and "named" regiments are also misleading. Every. Single. Regiment. is named one way or another. but the "named" ones are just the ones we know off and can play or read about.Β
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It's not as drastic as taking out the Spartans, but it does hurt the normal guardsmen since their strategy is to burry the enemy in bodies. Named regiments would hold out just fine. A better fight for the imperial guard would be the stormtroopers(assuming eu feats) while the unsc has been but up against the Arachnids from starship troopers
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I can't really argue against that.
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You were thinking of Thermopylae earlier, in which the greeks used the terrain to their advantage. There were only 300, not including non-spartans, but at the same time there weren't even close to a million persians (human population just wasn't high enough to field armies of that size), with the number believed to be around 150 000 at most. Also, about the Ghosts and their scout specialty. Their chief scout managed to out-stealth and kill a mandrake, the stealthiest unit the DE have.
Pretty sure Cortana could hack the imperial "vox" system. The vox systems aren't known for their high quality.
You can't really put in "IG doesn't get reinforcements", because then it's no longer IG vs UNSC.
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"You can't really put in "IG doesn't get reinforcements", because then it's no longer IG vs UNSC."
That's a solid point. I can't really argue against that so I guess I am going to have to give it to the Imperial Guard definitively.
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Imperial Guard all the way, between the imperial fleet, tanks, artillery, and the sure numbers. They would win the day.
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eh, the imperial navy is another branch of the Imperium, the IG doesn't has ships by itself, but I believe that this is a only ground battle so no problem XD.
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Posted this in spacebattles, with the IG having a numerical disadvantage and the consensus is still that the IG stomps....
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Better weapons, better vehicles, better artillery, the only advantage the UNSC have is the Spartans, but they aren't enough.
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Assuming this is doe under Planetary conquest style, we get 1 million units on each side. IN addition to jsut mook IG, we also get the special regiments like Cadian troops, catachan troops, and other vicious guradsmen who have faced down foes much more terrible than the UNSC.
On the basic infantry level we have the marines with better training over average guards, but they lose out when you bring in named regiments. Then the lasguns are far superior to the ballistic weapons of the UNSC, and much easier to maintain. On the infantry level, its rather even. The IG aren't cowards, they have faced down tyranids, dark eldar, chaos space marines, and other horrors. They know death is inevitable, be it at the hands of teh enemy or their commisar. They won't be backing out of this one.
IN the elites, the spartans are better than most stormtroopers, and im going to assume no space marines here. Still, the IG has better weapons. Bolters>most of teh spartan weaponry.
Where the gap starts to for is when we get to vehicles. The imperial armor and artillery is monstrous, and they should be able to beat out the UNSC in the air.
This battle is somewhat close, but i have to give it to the imperial guard. Spartans, as you will learn on an forum with thinking human beings, are not an autowin for the UNSC. The imperial guard out guns them, out mans them when reinforcements come down, and has the superior experience, morale and dakka to take down even a spartan. Also remember that spartan shielding and goes down faster to energy weapons, which the IG are in no lack of. Bolters will go right through them easily.
Victory to the Imperial guard, FOR TEH EMPRAH!!!
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Outnumber perhaps, but where do you get outgunned? The Guards weaponry is very limited, considering thier standard Lasgun is the Spartan Lasers little brother, and the Space marines have more access to boltguns then they do, Heavy bolters they have in abuddance, but thier heavy weapons require at least two people to haul around and then have to remain stationary when firing, and all the other weapon options such as flamers, shotguns, sniper rifles, Grendade launchers, the UNSC has those all that too, which are better maintained and better equipped, since the UNSC Shot Gun, Flamethrower and Assualt rifle can have an grenade laucher attachment, and most of thier heavy weapons such as the Missile Laucher, Rocket Laucher, and Machine-Gun Turret can be operated by one trooper apiece. Before you even begin to bring up Meltas and Plasma weapons, the UNSC has those too, like the Spartan laser, the aliens Plasma Rifle, Needle weapons, and of course the Plasma Pistol which are much safer than Imperiums but the Plama Pistol's charge shot also has an EMP effect of vehicles allowing for the nearby trooper to either hijack or plant and explosive. Let's not forget the Greanades that the UNSC have enployed such as the sticky plasma grenade, the Spike Grenade, the firebomb grenade and the recently discoverd Pulse grenade. With all the mentioned of the UNSC standard and the Convenant weapons aquired throughout the war I almost forgot to mention the Forrunner weapons that recently came out. I will admit the Guard does excell in trench warfare and stable defence but the UNSC has breat experience with busting up defense quikly and efficently, between the Mongoose and Warthog to give speed Supressive fire, and let's not forget that ODST's and some spartans have done Dropod manuvers that would be sure shake up thier stable defences and allow thier own advancing force the time needed to move in and finish the job. Yes the Guard indeed outnumbers them but so did the convenant, who a more technologically advance, brutal vicous and religously fanatic and they still won, the guard are still fighting more and more aliens adding more enemies and not making any friends, considering that thier enemies exist in thier own fellow militants such as the inquesition and the Eclesiarchy. Let's face it the Imperium is dying out while the UNSC is reaching greater hights. The compared to the Covenant, the Gaurd would be a Rehearsal.
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Standard lasgun can blow a hole through a person, and a big one too. Meltas can take out tanks but don't have a charge up time, and plasma pistols are given to make units better tank hunters and to take out heavily armoured units. IG often is on the receiving end of a hostile force dropping from orbit, so they're going to know how to react to odsts. And trust me, the covenant doesn't hold a candle to IG in terms of zealotry, brutality, viciousness or numbers. And I'd even have to say covenant weapons lack the punch of IG weapons. The Guard fights and wins against enemies that would drive spartans to insanity. So that's most of your argument countered right there.
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Im not sure how the Guard is more fearless and zealoty than the Covenant.
In one book a Jackal refused to use any of the human weapons nearby and instead attacked with bare hands becasue for them it is a sort of dishonour to use human weapons.As a trophy it is allowed but not in battle.
Elites despise humans and think they are an infection that must be wiped out at all cost.In melle combat the Guard would get slaughtered and run in fear only to get shot by a commisar and save the Covie troops ammo.
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Guard troops often times won't use foreign weapons not because it's dishonourable (honour isn't really a factor), but simply because they believe that any contact with something not of imperial make will indelibly taint their souls. Anyone seen to be using a foreign weapon will most likely be shot, and it's also possible their squad-mates will be shot because of association. As for being fearless, the Covenant are technologically superior to the UNSC. Doesn't take much courage to fight against enemies who's military hardware is comparatively crap. If you knew the kind of enemies the IG has to fight on a regular basis, who's braver wouldn't even be a part of the debate.
Covenant and IG are similar in war in that they'll settle for nothing less than complete genocide, but whereas the covenant try not to get bogged down in incredibly costly battles, the IG is perfectly willing to grind the enemy down through sheer weight of numbers if that's what it takes.
Current IG, at least in fluff, fight like maniacs in melee combat. While on paper a force of elites are going to outclass a similar sized force of guardsmen, in actual combat it's going to be a lot closer to how marines could win against technologically and numerically superior covenant armies. The only difference is that IG has more powerful weapons.
I think that just about answers everything.
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Hmmm pretty much.
But as for who is more brave it is a complete disgrace for Sangheli to have any type of fear and is a death sentence to them which means they would much rather be tortured than be afraid.
While they have the guts for melle combat (sometimes) they don't have any really good melle capabilities (bayonets and chainswords and few power weapons) while every Elite can have an Energy Sword and is many times stronger than a human meaning they just need a good punch or two to the face.
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Actually, while every elite is naturally much stronger, they aren't many times stronger. Two maybe, three times, but they aren't supernaturally strong. Also, not all elites can carry an energy swords. In fact, only the highest ranking elites are allowed to carry energy swords. And any decent power sword is going to have at least as much cutting power.
As to your comment about the plasma pistols, 40k versions can punch holes in tank armour. Halo plasma pistols aren't able to do that in game or in the books.
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Very well but still i vote Elites as superior than normall humans.
Covenant tech is going to be devastating on the ground.
Locusts,Scarabs,Wraiths,Ghosts,Banshees etc. will no doubt be problems for the IG.
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But all UNSA military have shields now that's sure to take Lasgun fire better than IG's Flack armor, not to mention that all that brutality can easily be quelled when things get close and personal, that's why they use tanks and artillery so they destroy the enemy from a distance, once that firepower is gone their pretty much a serious disadvantage, never mind that a Spartan could clobber these guys in close combat and disrupt their ranks. even if their weapons have more punch UNSA has more mobility, I mean if you put 3 heavy bolter squads that takes 2 people to use each, and has to remain stationary to fire against five Marines that have Warthog Machinegun turrets, one for each and can move and fire at the same time I'd say the advantage is obvious. And let's not forget the fact that the UNSA rocket launchers and missile launchers have lock-on seeking so they won't miss, the same can't be said for IG's Missile weapons. Then of course the UNSA have orbital target lights which allow the UNSA to launch orbital bombardments with excellent accuracy, another feature that IG lacks. And what do you mean the IG have faced things that Spartans aren't use to? Brutes aren't all that different with Orks, except maybe Better equipped, and the Prometheans are pretty much in league with Necrons in advanced alien robots that were once people, and dare I ask how you think the Flood and Tyranids are different? Then of Course The Foreunners themselves are like the Eldar of the Halo Universe and considering what just one of them was capable of one can only imagine what a bunch can do. So far the only army they haven't had to face was any relation to Chaos, but hey to be fair the warp doesn't exist in halo, in fact their space travel is much more safer and faster. It May be true that the covenant plasma weaponry may not be as strong, they make up for that in rapid suppressive fire and overheat prevention filters that make it safe from exploding which is the risk for imperium plasma weapons.
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You are seriously underestimating the firepower and other capabilities of weapons in 40k. Keep in mind, a bolter doesn't fire just huge bullets, it fires mini rockets and would tear a warthog to shreds in seconds. 40k plasma pistols can take out tanks in the setting, and pop shields that would otherwise take a direct hit from a tank's main gun to break. There are also other man portable weapons that have high fire rates, and while yes they do carry a risk of exploding, the firepower they pack means that their wielders could take out most things the UNSC could field with ease.
I have no idea where you came up with the thought that they lack mobility. Many of the IG's vehicles are considered slow and clunky by 40k standards. Those standards being full sized MBTs hitting car speeds. They are still very fast and agile for tanks. They also have a variety of walkers and their scout vehicles far outpace vehicles like the mongoose.
The IG also has serious close combat capability, with all the usual assortment of weaponry, as well as often times carrying chain and power weapons, and always having the option to fix bayonets.
The Imperial Navy is perfectly capable of launching precision strikes, they just prefer planetary bombardment.
The factions you listed don't even compare to their 40k counterparts. Brutes are puny and weak compared to orks. They are admittedly much more accurate with their weapons, but the orks sheer durability would see them withstand most brute weaponry. The flood are a better matchup, but again lose big points in durability, weapon power, and variety of forms. None of the actual combat forms seen could stand against a carnifex. The Forerunner's counterpart would be the Old Ones. The Old Ones were so advanced that they could manipulate alternate dimensions, which probably put them above the Forerunners. Again Necrons vs Prometheans is no contest due to points mentioned with nids and orks.
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Ummm give me some proof of a plasma pistol taking out a tank by itsself.Eventually it would melt it for sure but ALL Covie weapons can easily do the same thing and at a minimal risk.
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You should read what other people say. Plasma pistols can take out targets that would normally only break under a direct hit from a tank cannon, such as other tanks. It is also outright stated that plasma pistols are used in tank hunting squads for the sole purpose of being more effective at killing tanks. I don't need to give proof, it's canon.
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I read the comments but i did not see anything saying that :/
If you read any of the Halo books you can see how devastating even Plasma Pistols are to people and armoured forces.A plasma shot or two can completely melt a large part of a Warthog's front.
And people.....well let's just say you don't want to get hit by a plasma weapon. (fuck it 
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This plasma pistol. -_-
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plasmβ¦
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Your point?
Imperium plasma weaponry can just as easily kill the user in it's instability. Though it is more powerful, it's also rarer and more dangerous.
Covenant use these weapons all the time.
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But their understanding of the tech is minuscule, unlike the Imperials.
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Lol and that changes what exactly?
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Nothing really. Still, you don't see Halo plasma rifles vaporizing tanks, even outside the games.
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I'm just theorizing, but I'd say typical lasguns are about as lethal as Jackal Beam Rifles, but the beam is much thicker.
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Debatible. Lasguns ''explode'' on contact with something. They aren't good at penetrating armour. The Beam Rifles fire particle beams that could go clean through pretty much anything. It's meant to be a precision, long range weapon.
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Fair enough. This should be more informative than I am:
wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lasguβ¦
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Yeah yeah I've been through plenty of stuff like this and Lasguns are unquantifiable. Like a lot of stuff in 40K it's largely inconsistent with a Gaunt's Ghosts novel having a lasgun with a cutting beam mode.
The only thing people agree on is that they can punch holes in people and aren't good against armour.
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Only against heavy armor like Space Marine power armor. I reckon it'd be more effective against what Sangheili wear in Halo.
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Well that's a no-brainer.
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Dont forgett, what if IG just gets feed up and some Inquisitor on a Warship orders an Exterminatus? World goes *poof* XD
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Also, if we are going all average guardsmen with only lasguns and limited vehicle support in even number,s sure the UNSC stomps, but then it wold only be fair to arm the UNSC with strictly assault rifles. If we are mixing it up with named elite regiments, storm troopers, vehicles, armor, artillery, the IG stomps. They do have way better versions of almost all those weapons you just listed. like:
Standard Imperial Guard Infantry Weapons
Melee Weapons Chainsword β’ Combat Knife β’ Hunting Lance β’ Power Weapon
One-Handed Weapons Bolt Pistol β’ Laspistol β’ Hellpistol β’ Hotshot Laspistol β’ Plasma Pistol
Two-Handed Weapons Lasgun β’ Flamer β’ Grenade Launcher β’ Hellgun β’ Hotshot Lasgun β’ Lascarbine β’ Long-Las β’ Meltagun β’ Plasma Gun β’ Shotgun β’ Sniper Rifle
Heavy Weapons Autocannon β’ Heavy Bolter β’ Heavy Flamer β’ Heavy Stubber β’ Lascannon β’ Missile Launcher β’ Mortar β’ Ripper Gun
Grenades Frag Grenade β’ Krak Grenade β’ Melta Bomb
sorry for the messed up format. but those are just the standard infantry weapons, and each is vastly superior to most of the UNSC arsenal.
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Seriously? If we want to bring in numbers the imperial guard would CRUSH the UNSC. outgunned comes from the fact that artillery, vehicles and weapons are stronger than the standard UNSC weapons. Lasguns are weak compared to other 40k weapons. against human weapons that still use bullets? not a chance. For every ODST and spartan, we have the named regiments of guardsmen and the stormtroopers. The Imperial guard faces down demons, orks, tyranids, eldar, dark eldar and tau. the UNSC would be a vacation to them.
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Yea no. If this was a all out faction war the IG would drown them in the blood of trillions many times more then peak unsc and covie combined. Not to mention unsc ground forces are regarded as sometimes worse them what we already have by modern infantry (though i dont often trust them check out spacebattles. Some us army members got on it and lamented how terrible unsc and covie ground are). Halo or at least nonforerunner halo is not even close to be able to go toe to toe with 40k sorry.
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Hmmm. Interesting matchup.
Their protection is roughly the same for their line infantry (Guardsmen and Marines) and Elites units choices (Stormtroopers and ODSTs).
A lasgun and the assault rifle have the same stats in the tabletop game, so that's a tie.
Though a Marine probably has better training than a Guardsman does, and the morale of Guardsmen is unquestionably worse since they know they were replaced before they enlisted/drafted.
A question of Commissars vs. Sergeants causes my favoritism to come out, though. Sergeants all the way.
Spartans of any variety will just straight up win against anything short of a Scout Marine.
A Spartan I can handle 20 Guardsmen by himself.
A Spartan II team can handle the entire regiment if they knew what they were doing (and considering UNSC employ recon pretty well, they would).
A Spartan III team (basic) could handle quite a bit before going down, though I couldn't say how much. They're essentially Stealthsuit teams without jetpacks. Their main advantage here is the fact they're deployed hundreds at a time so it's like sending hundreds of Scout Marines at a target.
Noble team: See Spartan II.
The grenade launchers are roughly the same.
A flamethrower's a flamethrower's a flamethrower.
The rocket launcher gets two shots before needing to be reloaded, so it has the advantage over missile launchers.
Sniper rifles: See standard armament.
The only difference between a lascannon and the Spartan Laser is that a Spartan Laser is more portable.
UNSC have developed rail rifle technology like the Tau do. Guardsmen do not have an equivalent.
Guardsmen have plasma weapons and meltas, which the UNSC (kinda) don't have. They don't use it, anyway.
Shotguns are pretty much the same.
Leman Russes can probably handle Scorpions, though a Scorpion has been known to take down far more advanced vehicles than it. Can't say for sure, probably Leman Russ.
Chimeras and Cougars are essentially the same thing.
Valkyries and Vendettas thoroughly defeat Falcons and Hornets, though a Pelican stands a pretty good chance and a Vulture deserves to go up against Thunderhawks. The Wolverine artillery piece is what the UNSC uses for anti-air anyway.
A Wolverine is a Skyray on wheels. The closest thing the Guard have to that is the Manticore, and yeah those missiles are better. The Baneblade has no equivalent, and is very good in its own right.
Mantises can handily drop Sentinels with a rocket or two, of which they have five. Even a well-placed lascannon shot only takes down the shielding.
Warthogs and Mongooses are a good mobile weapons platform, their "get in, shoot, get out" is probably going to come in handy.
Baneblade chassis are the Guard's biggest advantage here (unless you want to go into Titan territory). Baneblades have ELEVEN BARRELS OF HELL. Two or three Cobras could beat a Baneblade, but it'd probably be easier and more effective to just send in a Spartan to take the Baneblade/Titan (it's been done).
The Rhino is almost a Baneblade chassis (though not quite), with twin-linked plasma cannons that don't scatter or get hot.
The Grizzly is pretty much a Space Marine Fellblade with a Hammerhead gun. It's the closest match the UNSC have to a Baneblade, though it's more like the Fellblade.
The Cobra is probably the Guard's worst nightmare here, since it's a Hammerhead railgun on wheels. It isn't the most durable vehicle (it's pretty tough, but it'll go down before too long), but enough can be fielded to create a "do not cross" line for IG vehicles and it's a pretty small target.
So in all, I don't know who would win. All I can say is it would be interesting to see.
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The Spartan IVs handle somewhere just below Spartan II in effectiveness, considering they have slightly better equipment, mostly the same augments, and are far more numerous though their training isn't as good at first.
The Mammoth is roughly a Warhound in effectiveness since it has what amounts to a Manta Rail Cannon bolted on top but without shielding that Titans have.
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A Titan of any variety presents a game changer. It'd take a lot of sustained fire before going down and can take out squads or vehicles at a time.
Warhound: Can be taken down, not easily.
Reaver: Will require multiple Grizzlies to take down, but still doable.
Warlord: Send in a Spartan II.
Emperor: Send in a Spartan II team. And pray.
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Well the Tau did not have to do much of anything to take out a Warhound with full shields and no damage to the armour in the Taros Campaign so it is do-able with not too much effort.
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But the Tau have this little thing called Manta, which is an airborne Titan-killer. The closest UNSC equivalent would be a Vulture or a Sparrowhawk, either of which is nowhere near as agile or heavily armed as the Manta.
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Uhhhh no, it's a modified Tigershark.
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Crap. When I said "The Baneblade has no equivalent," I meant the Basilisk.
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UNSC assault rifles rule over flash lights.
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