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ScarecrowsMainFan — Zerg vs. Reapers
Published: 2013-09-23 01:41:25 +0000 UTC; Views: 3836; Favourites: 18; Downloads: 5
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Nearly fall. Gonna be nice to have the weather cool down a bit.Zerg: A race of arthropods working under a a hive mind, the Zerg Swarm strive for genetic perfection by assimilating "worthy" races into their own, creating numerous strains of Zerg. The Swarm have no need for technology, choosing instead to assimilate other species' traits by directed mutation in order to match such technology. Multiplying faster then most any other race in existence, Zerg have crushed many armies under the power of sheer numbers alone. Under the rule of their Queen of Blades, Sarah Kerrigan, the Zerg have grown into a fierce, nearly unstoppable force of destruction.
Reapers: A race of synthetic-organics and one of the most technologically advanced races in existence; the Reapers reside in Dark Space, a vast starless space between galaxies. They hibernate there, dormant for fifty thousand years at a time, before they are given the signal to return. These massive constructs exist to harvest the galaxy's sentient life in a repeating cycle of purges that has continued relentlessly over countless millennia. They have committed this genocide several times, and through the devious process of Indoctrination, also fight with the help of the Collectors, the Heretic Geth, and fanatical Cerberus organization.
Now two armies, long the scourge of their respective universes, will battle it out. Will the Reapers carry out their genocidal cycle on the famed Zerg Rush? Or will the Queen of Blades and her hive evolve and assimilate, and leave the Reapers eating dust? Either way, when synthetic death machines battle biological nightmares, only one can survive. So tell me friends...
WHO! IS! DEADLIEST!
*(Because I know this will pop up if I say nothing: No space battles. Planet-side only.)
(Disclaimer: Just to be clear, these two combatants were created / are owned by people far more creative / wealthier then me. I have made this, not for profit, but in the hopes of encouraging spirited discussion among fans. Please support the combatants official series. Thank you, that is all).
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Comments: 30
I'm going to say The Zerg, as much as I love Mass Effect.
The Swarm is just more innumerable and still able to assimilate the minions of the Reapers, and biologicals have taken down reapers before (see also Kalross)
But the key factor here is adaptability. The Zerg adapt at an astounding rate, creating and modifying units at breakneck speed and have the gift of evolution. Numbers and efficiency over the rather limited number of troops that the Reapers posess, plus the psychic abilities would be foreign to the Reapers.
Another key factor is that The Reapers would be completely unprepared to face The Zerg. The Reapers force races to follow a strict technological guideline, used to fighting others through divide-and-conquer strategies utilizing weapons that The Reapers are already familiar with.
The Zerg however did not follow these paths and posses the mutation/evolution/metamorphoses ability. The Reapers would likely try to reaper-ize the Swarm but the Zerg would easily adapt to the changes, and are used to facing technologically-superior races before (Terran, Protoss) and have units, mutations and knowledge of how to defeat cyborgs and machines.
The Reapers however lack any experience in dealing with a race like this, and we also know that The Swarm would adapt and collect effective essences on whatever planet they were on to further advance their own units abilities. Defeating actual reapers may be tricky but again: not impossible as other purely biological creatures have done so.
The Swarm would prevail, as they always do.
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I completely disagree. I love me some zerg, but reapers create their armies from captured/dead enemies. The more the zerg throw at them, in the long run, the worse off they'll be. And reapers are masters of long term strategies. They plan the entire extinction of intelligent life on a GALACTIC level, MILLENIA in advance. This campaign ,which they have successfully completed god knows how many times, often takes centuries. They may even let the zerg think they're winning, but eventually they'll be destroyed. The zerg multiply off biological resources, their armies need food and other biological needs. To the reapers the zerg themselves ARE the resource. Their armies don't need food, sleep, or any other biological needs. They simply need dead bodies to convert into their robot undead-esque army. If I were the reapers I would keep any battles I had with the zerg both small and brief. Then rapidly collect the corpses and retreat to deep space to replenish and build my armies. I would do this over centuries maybe even thousands of years. Building my army that doesn't need food, warmth, sleep, etc , until I had enough to begin large scale warfare. Plus the indoctrination effect would be in play this entire time, while I slowly learn every thing there is to know about zerg.
The zerg may win for a long while,their victory seemingly complete, but the reapers would eventually win. They are too patient and calculating for any other outcome.
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i think we should agree to disagree.
FOR THE SWARM!
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I agree that we should agree to disagree.
FOR THE..... oh wait reapers don't have any cool war cries.
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they do have that awkward screaching noise
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Giant space foghorns don't count.
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how about 'assuming direct control'?
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post Hots kerigan. she'd squish the reapers as flat as a pancake. with a mere tought. and believe it or not but the zwarm wil outnumber the reapers a 100 to 1. indoctrination is a no go. seeing how they need to indoctrinate kerigan. but they can't . however the swarm might be able to infest the reapers with their infestators.
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does it matter who wins, humans are dead either way
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lol who gives a shit about humans
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Planet side only? It's canon that the zerg can make a few thousand soldiers from a single drone in the span of a few hours. The Reapers are certainly stronger individually and it'd take time, but the zerg are limitless and wouldn't be pushed back. Their greater battlefield variety would also work against the reapers as well - I doubt they're prepared for, say, a defiler's dark swarm eating away any projectiles they fire, or Vipers grabbing key targets and pulling them into the Zerg's claws.
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Or Kerrigan bringing down a Reaper from low orbit and crashing it down into the planet.
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I think some questions have to be answered before we can truly know the victor. Are the Zerg vulnerable to indoctrination? Can the Reapers huskify Zerg forces? etc.
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Well, the Reapers have been around for millions of years, and seem to have those to processes down to a science. Nobody else seems able to resist Indoctrination, so I don't see why it couldn't get at the Zerg. And it is possible, given what they do to every other race they encounter, that they could 'huskify' a zerg.
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*Strokes Bear of Awesome (TM)*
Yes, but to do so they would have to bring down a Zerg organism, then win the battle to take the corpse, then beat the Banelings that are soon to react, and do this in the face of a Zerg Swarm.
Speaking of stuff, what troops do the Reapers start out with?
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Reapers get their standard troops (Husks, Banshees, Marauders, etc), as well as Heretic Geth, Cerberus, and Collectors. Destroyer Class Reaper ships number in the few thousands, while the Harbinger class number in the low hundreds.
A full write up of the Reaper forces can be found here: planetarybattles.blogspot.com/2013/10/reaper-profile.html
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If it was only ground forces, then it's possible that the Zerg would win. I think the zerg could create more troops than the reapers could, though it's possible that the reapers could even turn the zerg against each other. The zerg, because of their mental connection, would probably be easily indoctrinated. Even so I don't think the zerg could kill a Harbinger-class reaper vessel. It would be a long drawn out battle, but in the end I think the reapers would win. I love you Kerrigan... I really do, but I have to go with the reapers on this one.
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The Zerg actually would definitely win a ground battle. The only way that something is going to beat a Zergling in Melee Combat is if it is equipped with shields and high energy weapons. I don't know if Husks are given shields but they won't be able to overpower a Zergling Swarm unless they outnumber them by at least double and surround them. Given the nature of Zergling Swarms and Husks... it'll be a frontal assault as of which the Zerglings would tear through all of them. Not to mention the fact that they're metal means nothing, Zerglings tear through steel easily. Any of the Husk variations would be killed within seconds of close range. Not to mention Mass Effect weaponry is practically useless against the Zerg as the only thing that really stops a Zerg is the power and size of the round. Your bullets could be going the speed of sound, but if they are only the size of a pellet then the real damage would amount to nothing to the Zerg. A Marine once fired 200 Spike Rounds into a Zergling and it kept on trying to kill him... didn't help that he was a crap shot but he took out 2 legs and 1 claw and it still came after him.
The only Husks that would really end up damaging the Zergling Swarm are the Banshee, Ravager, and Swarmers as they explode, the Ravagers have energy based weapons (I think), and the Banshees have Bionics. To think that's only the Zerglings. There's also the Hydralisks that have projectiles that can punch through about half a foot of Neosteel which is apparently more durable than regular Steel as they only use Steel in support axles/beams now. Then there's the Ultralisk who would step on Husks as they are about 10 meters tall (Wings of Liberty) and with monstrous Kaiser Blades that are especially effective against light infantry. Compared to Starcraft's term of 'light infantry' the Husks are Featherweight Infantry. There's also the Spine Crawlers which are very good at Anti-Ground and are used to secure borders seeing as of how they make mincemeat of a tank in about 5 hits. Roaches who can withstand multiple tank shots and spit out highly corrosive acid. Along with Banelings which suicide bomb equally corrosive acid over a wide area. Swarm Host which spews out a constant stream of Locusts at 2 every 25 seconds. We have the Infestors which can bring out Infested Terrans and immobilize enemies with a Fungal Growth. And Finally we have the Brood Lords who are technically flyers but are strictly ground attackers. They spawn Broodlings and launch them at enemies, shortly afterwards these Broodlings die only to be replaced.
The Zerg turning against each other is impossible. They are a Hive Mind that goes 1-way. The Zerg receive orders from the Hive Mind and obey. They do not question the Hive Mind because there is nothing to question. They're pretty much animals that obey a single source with a single minded zeal. So there's next to no chance for anything other than a Hive Mind, Queen, Brood Mother, or Special Zerg.
Now then, Atmosphere battle as they said no Outer Space battles. This means no Harbinger as that thing is just too massive, same goes for the Leviathan from the Zerg. Now then there's the Corruptors which are strictly Anti-Air battlers and spit corrosive acid. This acid is corrosive making it very effective against metal and can also be congealed into a slime that weakens metal into a more easily punctured state. There's the Mutalisk which shoots out Glaive Worms which bounce from target to target as a living projectile. They are lightly armored but are about as big as Fighters, they are easy to produce and can also attack ground units as well. There's the Viper which has enough strength to pull entire Spaceships with it's tongue along with cloud up enemy vision and even disable weapon systems with the clouds of gas it can spit out it also has mild Anti-Air capabilities. Then we have the Spore Crawler which wreaks absolute havoc upon Air-Units as they spit corrosive acid that even a Battlecruiser (Similar in size to a Dreadnought) will lose its shields and about half of its health to against a single one. All of these creatures have proven themselves capable of disabling shields through the sheer chemical make up of their acid.
However I'm focusing too much on the Zerg here. The Reaper's combat capabilities... well I've already sized up the Husks but what about Air Force? It primarily consists of Capital Ships, Troop Transports, and Destroyers. Destroyers have been known to be destroyed by Cruisers so Anti-Air is going to make short work of them and get about 25% of the Anti-Air sent after them destroyed. The Troop Transports are only transports thus they present no threat but should still be destroyed. A Capital Ship on the other hand is going to take a bit of work. The Point Defense systems wouldn't be very effective against the Acid Balls as they wouldn't be able to disintegrate the whole ball in time. Though the Anti-Air shots may be a bit more effective, though most Point Defense Systems depend on Fighters to turn back for repairs and just like Zerglings the Mutalisks won't stop because of a burn. Not to mention as the battle goes on the Lasers begin to overheat. The Oculi would be eaten alive by all the acid flying through the air. The Cannons on the Tendrils might be able to take down some of the attack but the Zerg aren't called a Swarm without reason. The 'Super' Cannon would be highly illogical to use in a Planetside battle as they would wipe out their own force as well. So the Zerg just have to have a minute or two worth of constant firepower and the shields are down then it'll only be a matter of time before the Capital Ship falls next.
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Good points, all of them... though if I may just point out one or two things.....
Good point about the Hive Mind of the Zerg, but wouldn't it be possible that the Reapers could indoctrinate a Queen, Brood Mother or a Special Zerg. And since the other Zerg mindlessly follow the orders of a Brood Mother, that's hundreds of Zerg turned against each other simply because one Zerg was indoctrinated. Also, because the Zerg are organic, it is possible that the Reapers could create husk versions of the Zerg thereby adding to their own forces. However, because the Reaper forces are synthetic and not fully organic, the Zerg would be unable to infest any of the Reaper forces.
Now, no space battles can be limiting for some, but not for the Reapers. Sovereign-class Reaper ships have landed on the surface of a planet to fight and conduct the harvest, and while Harbinger itself is massive, it was seen landing on the surface of Earth during the final battle of London. While the Destroyer-class Reapers are smaller and, therefore slightly easier to kill, it should be noted that it took the entire Quarian fleet to destroy one on Rannoch and a massive Thresher Maw on Tuchanka. It should be noted, however, that the main weapon of a Reaper is not energy based, it is a powerful "magnetohydrodynamic" weapon. What this means is that it is a stream of molten metal being fired at a fraction of the speed of light and with a yield of 132 to 450 kilotons of TNT, the speed and force this 'beam' produces could potentially tear through hundreds of Zerg at once. It also means that the Reaper's main weapon may not overheat as many energy based weapons do. It has also been shown that the Reapers can move the beam along the ground, or even through the air, while they're firing. The only unknown is how much damage a Reaper's kinetic barriers could withstand from Zerg forces before failing. Though Sovereign-class Reaper ships are extremely durable and can withstand taking damage from four dreadnoughts before they start to lose their kinetic barriers. While the Oculi have no shields, it does have a high amount of armor so it is unlikely that a single ball of acid could destroy it, the Oculi are also fast and agile.
While Zerg forces could beat the husks, the sheer number of Sovereign-class Reaper ships that could land on the surface would, I think would decide the battle. It was shown that there were hundreds, if not thousands or maybe even billions, of reaper ships waiting in dark space. Even is the Zerg could kill one or two, another Reaper could land and take its place and bringing with it more husks and oculi. Could the Zerg spawn more troops fast enough? That, is the real question.
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I do apologize for my behavior in the previous comment. I was being a bit zealous and presented the information in a crude way.
Well I'd Husks aren't really made in the field of battle. They're made from captured corpses and they're sure as hell not getting a live one. The reason why the Zerg are so effective is because they're organic. All of the carapaces and muscles are so efficiently woven that turning them cybernetic might actually cause some problems. Muscles might not be as strong, carapaces won't be as durable, reactions might slow down. This is because the part metal would probably end up hindering the Zerg body has hardly any of them were designed to have rigid structures aside from carapaces. It's the fact that each cell is alive and does it's job more efficiently than any hydraulic or wire could do. So you'd have weakened Zerg Husks but you'd still have Husks. So if enough Husks survive the battle to drag back some corpses then they've got some Zerg Husks.
Do they really need to infest the Husks? It could actually be done in a way. Slip in an organism that utilizes tentacles as movement into the body and now you have a Zerg organism inside of a Husk body. If you meant Zerg Conversion that would be a definite no.
Yes the 'Thinking' Zerg could be Indoctrinated but the reasons why that's low is that Indoctrination requires exposure to Reaper Tech and is done gradually overtime otherwise the Reapers would always win as they would only have to send down their own tech and they would brainwash a whole planet within an hour. Not to mention this Indoctrination has been resisted by strong minds like Asari Matriarchs. The only Zerg that are able to think are required to be strong. That and they're kept in only the most well defended areas except for Kerrigan who can actually go into the field of battle and probably withstand anything the Reapers could whip out.
Kerrigan has resisted brainwashing of nearly every kind and always has her Swarm at best interest. Normally this would turn out like the Illusive Man or Saren, however The Swarm's best interest is to further itself through battles with nature and enemies alike. She also has her own goals which also goes with the Swarm's best interest. To put it simply the Reapers don't have any footholds of promise or seeing that their way is better, something that Indoctrination actually requires to be successful.
Abathur is not likely to indoctrinate as his job is to further Evolution for the Swarm, To create as perfect of a Zerg as possible. However the Reapers most likely would not succeed by promising him the ability to create a perfect Zerg Organism. He has already stated that Perfection is an impossible goal that he follows, he knows that it is impossible so he makes the Zerg as efficient as he can. Promising him the DNA of all the organisms they've harvested wouldn't work either. Mainly because he knows that if they fall in battle then he can simply task Zerg to retrieve it from the corpses.
Queens and Brood Mothers would be the easiest to access and Indoctrinate. They have the weakest minds out of all the thinkers but they have a fierce loyalty to Kerrigan. Should they be persuaded that Kerrigan is unfit to be the Hive Mind, Kerrigan can easily correct them on the battle field.
Unto the topic of Reapers. I did not know that the Harbinger could actually land this actually changes things quite a bit. I was more or less trying to be fair with you by taking out Leviathans since I didn't know it could land. Leviathans can maintain themselves in atmospheric orbit and are described as 'Moon-sized'. Our moon is about 3474km in diameter. A Leviathan in scale using this picture and scale it by distance and angle. This thing is at least 100km most likely 300-500km. I'm basing it off of how large the Hyperion is (2km) and estimating how far away the Leviathan might actually be. However I can only place it at minimum 100km. A Destroyer is only 160m and could likely be literally eaten by this thing though not recommended. Leviathans are basically living Hives and can spit out drop pods along with spitting out Mutalisks and Broodlords as a personal entourage.
Actually the Magnetohydrodynamic is the main weapon of the Sovereign class reapers. Destroyers have a beam weapon that is good when they're floating. Yeah the Magentohyrdodynamic shot is devastating but more effective when the sides are clearly shown as the result would be them destroying both Zerg and Reaper forces which is not a good idea. Also the Magnetohydrodynamic Cannon is not a Point Defense System, it is a full on weapon that actually requires aiming.
Oh and thanks for reminding me about the Nydus Worms. Not nearly as long as a Thresher Maw and not normally used for battle but Destroyers could be easily picked off by that tactic. For the ones that would prefer to fly... the Spore Crawlers would likely shoot it down as the projectiles that Corruptors and Spore Crawlers have a lot more of a noticeable 'oomph' than Citadel weaponry. These shots are capable of taking down shields a lot faster than any laser or bullet can... I'm not sure why but it has been the bane of all flying ships shielded or not. I'm guessing that you'd have an effective Anti-Destroyer line if you put down about 10 of them in a group.
The Sovereigns are massive and that makes them big targets. Any Spore Crawler that's not firing at a Destroyer would be targeting a Sovereign. Within at most an hour, the Spore Crawlers will have taken down the shields. I'm basing this off of a hundred Spore Crawlers. A planetside Hive is going to have much more. Then there's the defense systems which can overheat as they are considered similar to the GARDIAN defense systems which we've already talked about. The Oculi would still take several hits yes but when going against swarms of Corruptors and Mutalisks they don't have much of a chance as they were made to combat Fighters. What I actually mean is that they are quick but they were made to take on singular opponents, not a wall of flying flesh.
Now about the amount of Reapers in dark space... well that all depends on how many planets the Zerg has. If they have about 100 planets, then they could definitely take on the Reaper Fleet.
Besides the reason why I said No Space Warfare was because those were the limitations of the battle. In the description the Artist said that it would be constricted to Land and Atmospheric (I think that's what they said) which means no Space Battles.
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Well, looks like the watered down Tyranids win here. Sorry Reapers.
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Really, what secures their victory?
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Apparently they have spaceships the size of moons, so they can just eat the Reapers up, I guess. This isn't to say that I like the Zerg or anything.
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I'd actually argue with equal numbers and pure atmospheric warfare only, Zerg are even to nids now thanks to HOTS. Part of that is because their most common heavy unit is as tall as some of the largest Nid units, and that the rare Leviathans are used in atmo, but still its a good debate.
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Okay, at first I wasn't too sure, but I'm pretty sure the Zerg would win. Even the space battles. Zerg Leviathans are the size of moons., MUCH bigger than the Reapers.
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The Zerg swarm doesn't need sleep, the endless rush will conquer
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so scarecrow who do you think would win this fight and why
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Zerg have better: Recon, Infantry, Heroes, Misc. Air, Support, Defense, and Victory Gains. Their leader takes the Audacity and Corruption X-Factors. The Zerg take the Morale and Army Intimidation X-Factors.
Reapers have better: Elites, Cavalry, Armor, Aircrafts, and Additional Info. Their leader takes the Tactics, Strategy, Intuition, Psychological Warfare, Intelligence, Experience, and Discipline X-Factor. The Reapers take the Logistics, Espionage, Discipline, and Reinforcement Rate X-Factors.
They Tie In: The Leaders tie in the Adaptive Creativity X-Factor.
Conclusion: These armies are pretty well matched in many ways. However, the Zerg cannot beat the actual Reapers (either Destroyers or Capital Ships). So, if the Zerg were just facing the Reaper's minions, I'd say they could probably pull off a win. However, in this battle, that's not the case, which results in a Zerg loss.
The Winners Are: The Reapers
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