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Published: 2017-03-12 15:23:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 60214; Favourites: 274; Downloads: 0
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Description
Amalgamation is a Universe where a multitude of Sci-Fi videogame universes fit together as one, with it's own timeline, galaxy map, canon and comics. Images are organised into folders on the left:
amalgamation100.deviantart.com…
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Hey guys, this is a size comparison chart for Mass Effect and Halo ships. This chart and the information below will help with the Citadel vs Covenant event I have going on here, especially for writers. In the Amalgamation Universe I've kept all the sizes the same, and the UEGA mostly uses Halo franchise ships for it's fleets (as you would've seen in a lot of canonical renders) though the Normandy was still created with the pretence of it being a hybrid Human-Turian design and thus it is, like everything else shown here, the same size and design as it's franchise canon counterpart. The human fleet was decided to be mostly UNSC ships for a few reasons, one the models were easy enough to get for starters, and reasons number 2 and 3 are that the human military is based off of Halo in this universe as it's template and it'd diversify the Galaxies Aesthetics more. UNSC ships already look tremendously different to Covenant, and the galaxy would still be filled with Mass Effect Ship variants for it's Citadel Races and Terminus systems which in my opinion all have a very similar aesthetic design.
I'm sorry if I didn't get everything 100% accurate to the pixel, credit to Euderion 's for Mass Effect Ship's sizes and some bits and pieces from other artists like HaseoYashimora and D4RKST0RM99 for the Halo ships, I referenced one ship from each franchise together to make the whole thing.
To understand how the Amalgamation universe's ships, technology and it's shared timeline differs from it's original counterparts, we must first look at how the original canons ships, technology and timelines developed and why they are different. For more info on the timeline, read the description of the Galaxy Map Here
Alright now strap in because trying to explain all of this shit to you looks like
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Mass Effect and Halo Lore
Armaments
Let's start with Mac Canons.
The weapon systems in Halo and Mass Effect (UNSC and Citadel) lore both use Magnetic Accelerator Canons (MAC's) as there main weapon in space warfare/ship to ship combat. The main difference is that the ME guns use a special fictional element called "element zero" to create "Mass Effect Field's," the fictional but also quite reasonable science the game is named upon, to lower the gravity in the gun to the lowest point possible and thus propel the small shell within it to amazing speeds. The only example figure wise we get is the Alliance's Everest Class Dreadnaught (Dreadnaughts being the biggest canon class ships in ME, refer to the size chart).
Its main gun that runs over half the length of the ship and is forward facing can fire a slug that weighs 20 kilos at 1.3% of light speed (4025 km/s) for a impact force of 38 kilotons. That's the only number we have but someone on Spacebattles.com did some estimates using the same math for the other ship sizes here if you're interested.
Mass Effet Magnetic Accelerator Yields
The average UNSC MAC (presumed to be for both Frigates and Cruisers) fires a 600 Ton slug at 30 km/s and hits with a force of 64.53 Kilotons.
One single shot of a MAC round isn't enough to destroy a Covenant ship, only to disable it if you're EXTREMELY lucky and manage to hit it's core systems and if it's a small enough ship to have sufficiently weak shielding (I'm assuming UNSC Frigates to Cruisers would have trouble with an assault carrier for example, but not the classes under it). It usually takes 3 MAC rounds to bring down a single Covenant ship of the same or similar size ratio, and it could take as much as 30 seconds to even a full minute to charge and fire a round at full capacity/charge (unknown, but guestimated from novel's) thus why the UNSC only ever won space engagements when the numbers favoured them 3-1, and sustained heavy casualties due to no shielding on there ships and the Covenant's plasma weapons being far superior. This means that the required kilotons to pierce and destroy a Covenant ship (up to say, a Cruiser) is just under 200 kilotons (193.59)
Orbital Defense Platforms fire a 3,000-ton slug at four-hundredths, or 4% of, the speed of light , around 12,000 km/s and hits with 51.6 gigatons of force. Super Macs aboard ODP's, when used against Covenant shield technology possess enough kinetic energy to punch through the shields of a capital ship (assault carrier), cut through the ship shattering it into a million pieces, and upon exit still retain enough energy to destroy a second ship, and cripple a third.
When comparing the two you can see that the UNSC MAC has a greater destructive output and during the war were the only ship weapons capable of piercing the Covenant's shields. However the slug fired by the Alliance ME Dreadnoughts has a destructive output of just over HALF of what the Halo ships have, but it also uses a slug 30 times smaller and lighter than a UNSC's ship, firing it much faster though. They can also fire every two seconds which would deal 1.14 MEGAtons (1139 kilotons) of damage in a minute, whereas it's guestimated (from novel dialogue and cutscenes) that standard Halo Macs recharge and fire about every 30 seconds at full charge which means they can only deal 129.06 kilotons per minute on average, full charge. Two shots in 4 seconds would be over the average UNSC Frigate doing two shots in one minute.
If we take Stargazer's Mass Effect Accelerator canon estimates of
500-meter mass accelerator (Standard Turian Cruiser)
Speed: 2,515.625 km/s
Kinetic Energy: 63.2 terajoules (6.32e13 joules)
Yield: 15 kilotons per shot, 450 kilotons per minute
or
200-meter mass accelerator (round off from Turian Frigate at 236.5m)
Speed: 1,006.25 km/s
Kinetic Energy: 10.1 terajoules (1.01e13 joules)
Yield: 2.4 kilotons per shot, 72 kilotons per minute
We can see that the other Mass Effect smaller ships don't fair too good when up against the average Covenant Ships (Frigates to Cruisers) which need to take roughly 200 Kilotons worth of damage to go down and ME Frigates can't do that in a minute, whereas a Cruiser would have to take 13-14 shots to reach that, that's only 1v1 though. Because the Citadels ships fire much more rapidly if you were to group a small fleet of them together to engage one Covenant Cruiser or ambush smaller Covenant Fleets with larger Citadel fleets the Citadel might be able to gain the advantage, remember that UNSC ships are basically giant bricks strapped with a gun, there is a tactical advantage to splitting your firepower among several smaller platforms rather than utilising one large, albeit more powerful glass cannon. Also to ME's advantage are the fighter-launched disruptor torpedoes , because if they are able to nullify Covenant Shields with this, and there's no reason theoretically that they couldn't, Covenant ship's hulls are not armoured and very weak, they rely solely upon there shields for protection. It'd be easy pickings with low casualties for the Citadel.
Another thing to consider even though there are no stats for them are the Thanix cannons , if the scalled down version of these weapons mounted to a Frigate can give them the firepower of a cruiser (frigate gun 236.5m long, cruiser's 500m) than it's easy to see that they at the very least double the firepower of a regular ME MAC, apply that to all equations. I am doing this post Geth attack on the Citadel too.
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Shields
Halo shield technology consists of a field of energized particles that wraps around a surface, which deflects objects that attempt to impact the surface. This is theoretical particle technology in the real world.
Halo lore takes on the scientific principle that Plasma is fucking hot, like really fucking hot. A Covenant's plasma Torpedos can tear through the UNSC's thick Titanium armour like a sharp knife through melted butter, thus why UNSC lose most 1v1 scaled engagements and suffer heavy losses on there 3-1 wins, because there ships can be destroyed with one shot and that sucks, this is because all UNSC ships aren't equipped with energy shielding.
In the Mass Effect Universe they use Repulsive Mass Effect Fields from tiny emitters to create shields. There are no stats or even feats to measure with these on ships that I can find, and at first I assumed that whatever the stats would be that they'd be better than plain armour at deflecting plasma however it is said that "t he shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation" and "t hey are ineffective against extremes of heat or radiation, such as lasers and particle weapons" This means that they would in all likelyhood be ineffective against Covenant Plasma weapons, which are heat based weapons.
The more advanced Cyclonic Barrier Technology and Silaris Armor , which is extreme heat resistant and can withstand molten metal projectiles, would be more effective than UNSC armour at dealing with plasma, but are still not as effective a defence as particle shields would be.
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AI
Unfortunately this section only discusses further disadvantages to ME, like it's lake of AI presence in space warfare. AI's are illegal in Citadel Space in ME lore, and in Halo most ships are equipped with either dumb or smart AI's . However ME does use VI's (Virtual Intelligence's) to boost it's space combat and other technological systems, but they're not even equivalent to Halo's dumb AI though because even dumb AI's are still quite advanced and have the ability to learn, the main difference is they are more limited in their cognitive capabilities, being incapable of the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively, and cannot learn subjects outside of their specialized role. The term "dumb" is to a degree a misnomer, as they are still incredibly intelligent; Déjà, for example, possessed an equivalent human IQ of 240 in her areas of expertise. ME's VI's cannot learn anything on there own, making them inferior to dumb AI's. I'd still give ME some leeway with this based on a few things
1. You don't need a computer to think independently for you when targeting enemy ships, just to do the Math
2. There's evidence to assume that the Covenant only used dumb AI's because they restrict AI's access and functions on there ships to minimal roles. They don't allow them to think creatively or strategize like the UNSC does.
Still, Covenant AI's would be much faster at targeting just because they're more advanced.
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Combat Speed
There is also the matter of the FTL technology used to travel the stars and how it relates to combat speed itself, meaning the speed at which ships are able to traverse in combat, dodge and evade fire. ME ships rely on Element Zero (a depletable substance) and the Mass Relays to travel around the Galaxy, the Covenant use the arguable better Slip-space technology to travel the galaxy which is more reliable and infinite in usage as it requires only reactor power. Proof to the point is that the Covenant can make pin-point accurate jumps anywhere, even in the middle of fleets or in and out of a planet's atmosphere. I should mention that ME ships whilst using Element Zero can also "jump" (more so move) in and out of enemy ships as Turians have done that with Reapers, Covenant jumps are just more deadly because of slip-space ruptures, and most of ME's bigger ships can't go into an orbit of a planet.
On the other hand, Halo ships appear to be restricted to "Newtonian movement" whereas Citadel vessels cheat using their mass effect fields to turn off their own mass. In theory that also turns off inertia, or makes it much easier to manage. The Normandy has been shown manoeuvering in an almost fighter like manner. In short I'd wager Mass Effect Ships are effectively quicker as well as smaller in real-time combat, making them much harder targets to hit. ME get's points for superior evasion here.
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FTL Speed:
Assessing the speeds for both FTL travel methods so I can draw comparisons.
Halo:
Human Slipspace velocities are far slower than those of the Covenant, traveling at approximately 2.625 light years per day (as in, two point six two five) while Covenant ships can reach 912 light years per day.
Mass Effect:
The exact FTL speeds at which starships of the modern galaxy travel are unknown. It is noted , however, that Reapers are believed to be capable of traveling nearly 30 light-years (283,821,914,177,424,000 meters) within a 24-hour period (per day), and that this rate is roughly twice what Citadel starships are capable of traveling. This equates Reaper FTL capabilities to around 10,957 times the speed of light.
And so that means most Citadel Ships should travel around 15 light years per day, that's roughly 5.4K times the speed of light within 24-hours.
This means the citadel are six times faster than UNSC ships (15 > 2.6) in FTL but still much slower than Covenant ships (912 > 15) without using Mass Relays, which are shown to be almost instantaneous.
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Numbers
We have no way of knowing how many the Citadel fleet's number but we do know how many Dreadnoughts there are, and that most of the time Dreadnoughts are assigned individually to fleets of 75-150.
Actual number of dreads (this isn't including Alliance as this universe has it's own human faction)
39 Turian
21 Asari + destiny ascension
16 Salarian + stealth dreads (number unknown, but not many)
1 Volus (one of the most advanced dreads in existence )
76 total + Destiny ascension + stealth dreads.
If we were to assume that each standard Dreadnought were to average a fleet of 100 (cruisers and frigates) than the Council should have a fleet of roughly 7600 vessels, plus Dreadnoughts.
The Covenant fleet numers are also unknown but from various battles that have taken place we can average a fair guestimate.
In the later half of the Human-Covenant War Admiral Cole managed to procure a massive victory for the UNSC by destroying 300 ships strong in Battle of Psi Serpentis
Despite that the Covenant still showed up with numerous fleets numbering 750 ships at Reach later on and lost 262 ships taking the planet.
At the destruction of the Unyielding Hierophant they lost a total of 500 ships due to the efforts of Spartan Blue Team and other UNSC heroes.
(This is purely speculation on my part, I have almost no data to work with)
Assessment Conclusion:
1. Ship Size's: Covenant (by a long shot)
2. Weapon Systems: 50/50 (Slightly leaning towards Covenant but Thanix Cannons and Disruptor Torpedos may break even)
3. Shields: Covenant (can block projectiles and heat)
4. AI: Covenant (have mastered AI control)
5. Combat Speed: Citadel (Citadel Ships have None Newtonian Movement)
6. FTL Speed: Covenant (This point goes to the Covenant because the Citadel have to rely upon external factors for their FTL, one being Element Zero which is marginally slower then Slip-Space and the other being the Mass Relays, which are faster than Covenant Slipspace but still less efficient than Slip-Space which can be used anywhere anytime)
7. Numbers: Citadel (by a long shot)
Total Score: 4 points Covenant, 2 points Citadel, 1 point wash.
Note: All of this so far has been for the actual individual franchises canons, and is my opinion based on the facts compiled, I could have missed information or details here and there as I'm only one person. I will proceed with the current compiled data to create Amalagamation's lore though.
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Amalgamation's Lore (specs for Citadel vs Covenant event):
For the Amalgamation Universe I'm going to make a few asserted changes based on the fact that these two factions developed in a different, Amalgamated Universe with a shared timeline and technology.
First of all, both have access to Prothean/Reaper and Forerunner/Precursor technology. I don't think that the Citadel would build plasma weapons, nor would the Covenant ever use anything of Prothean technology origin as they'd view the Protheans as Demonic in this universe due to the vague war that happened between Forerunner and Prothean in this timeline. Citadel would harness particle shielding technology alongside there kinetic barriers though, relying on the upgraded Cyclonic Barrier Shield technology for frigates and hybrid particle shielding to protect all of there larger ships, all ships would have Silaris armour slipspace technology on top of there traditional FLT travel methods. This would work because reactors in this universe are more potent/better technology (all technology in Amalgamation is significantly better for everyone) and the Citadel, with help from the Salarians, would manufacture hybrid Eezo/Slipspace core drives.
AI's would also not be Illegal in Amalgamation's Citadel, I know it seems like I'm changing a lot for ME but this one is essential to the existence of important AI characters like Jarvis and Cortana. The Citadel would only develop the use of AI's for there military for the purpose of competing with the Covenant, they would however need to be shackled like we see Cerberus do with EDI and ME2 and they'd still be illegal for civilian and commercial use, no exceptions, no licenses. Any member looking to have an embassy on the Citadel would be forced to agree to this and how AI's are to be used in there military.
And even though they'd despise Prothean technology, there's no reason to believe that because shared technologies existed in this universe that the Forerunners didn't also use Mass Relays and Kinetic Barriers, so Super Carriers also use Kinetic barriers to boost there particle shield protection, and all Covenant ships would use Mass Relays as a convience.
During the War of two Councils (first meeting on timeline, check galaxy map) the Citadel would dropped the Treaty of Farixen and built as many Dreadnoughts as they wanted to be able to stay in league with the Covenant. I'm also introducing a fan-made class of ships to ME but the idea wasn't mine, it was The-PBG 's; The Super Dreadnought. Made by the Turians only during the War of Two Councils and used specifically for dealing with Covenant ships, they are 2K's long and possess these specs for there main guns:
2000-Thanix Cannon (assuming that it is double stats of an ME Mac):
Speed: 19486.6 km/s (3.50% the speed of light)
Kinetic Energy: 2.02 petajoules (2.02e15 joules)
Yield: 484 kilotons per shot, 14.52 megatons per minute, plenty enough to break through Covenant shields and destroy there ships, when 200 kilos is needed to completely destroy with one shot. Theoretically they could destroy two covvie ships with one hit, this canon is also super long range.
Super Dreadnoughts also harness both kinetic barriers and particle shields along with more advanced hybrid eezo/slipspace drives and very powerful generators.
The Turians would have 50 of these locked away in secret in case of a War with the Covenant, and the Citadel would 100 Dreadnoughts in total for this universe, with a fleet of 10,000 strong.
The Covenant would have 6000, plus five Super-Carriers and there other orbital bases, though it'd be more like 5000 by the time they get to fighting the Citadel, as the UNSC would of destroyed roughly a thousand covenant ships (including battle of Psi Serpentis and Reach)
Tactics/War:
I think that the Citadel would use numbers to there advantage, they build lots of smaller ships with speed and manouverability on there side, a common tactic in ME canon which should work for the Covenant is this:
In fleet combat , frigates are organized into "wolf pack" flotillas of four to six. Wolf packs speed through enemy formations, hunting enemy vessels whose kinetic barriers (or particle shields in this instance) have been taken down by fighter-launched disruptor torpedoes . The wolf pack circle-strafes vulnerable targets, using their superior speed and maneuverability to evade return fire.
A combined salvo from 6 Citadel frigates using Thanix canons is only going to have a yield of 28.8 kilotons (200 minimum needed to destroy most fully shielded ships) but with disabled shields this would make short work of the ships with no armour like the Covenant utilises. This is better than what the UNSC utilises, as with there bigger, blockier ships, though they may be more powerful, one hit will take them down whereas with the Citadel if they lose a frigate or two in a wolf pack, they haven't even lost half of there firepower yet, and I doubt the Covenant will be able to take anything down within the two seconds needed for the Citadel fleet to fire another salvo (I'd estimate that the Citadel would be able to get off 3-4 Salvos on average before losing ships, that's 86.4-115.2). Cruisers would would act as the extra muscle in fleet engagements for the Citadel fleets and to backup in case the bombers aren't able to make there run, on average two Cruisers might be assigned to these flotillas offering 60 kilotons of additional firepower (now change previous estimates for 3-4 Salvos to 266.4-355.2 kilotons) . All up these fleets would have 88.8 kilotons of firepower (per Salvo) and would be able to break 200 after three strafe's (266 kilos assuming all ships survive every strafe which is more than unlikely). Citadel dreadnoughts and super dreadnoughts are tactical treasures and would act as support and held in reserve in most fleets. Super Dreadnoughts will be needed though when facing assault carriers, I'd assume the Citadel would use Frigates as proxy shields to protect them much like the UNSC does with it's space walls.
As for the Covenant, they're going to overwhelm with brute force and size. They rely on there shields and are therefore going to invest heavily in Seraph squadron defences once they see that the Citadel have a weapon that can bring down there shields easily. If the Covenant have trouble with the Citadel's new SuperDreadnoughts they might implement a tactic of boarding with there Type-28 Tick boarding craft to try planting an anti-matter charge.
Assault Carriers are going to be able to tank entire Citadel fleets (100 ships) almost all on there own though and don't get me started on the Uber Super Carriers, which will be capable of decimating hundreds of ships on it's own. Just look at the damn size of those things and all of the guns it'd have on them.
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The winner is yet unknown and will be largely decided by the results of the renders from other artists participating in the event.
- The event folder can be found here
Related content
Comments: 67
Zanman34 [2019-07-03 03:11:23 +0000 UTC]
Technically the Halo Ring is a ship as it has it's own slipspace drive.....
👍: 3 ⏩: 1
DarkOmen94 [2019-06-01 11:41:22 +0000 UTC]
The covenant ships are so big in comparison with the mass effect ships it isn't even funny. Even the Reapers would be sh***ing bricks if they exited the mass relays only to be greeted by a fleet of covenant super carriers.
👍: 3 ⏩: 0
hunter87j [2019-02-24 15:44:13 +0000 UTC]
I'm not sure where you got the idea that Covenant ships were lightly armored. The 3,000 meter DDS class carriers had 30 meters of nanolaminate armor plate (assuming most vessels ran a similar ratio as the Covenant did not get overly creative with ship design), and that stuff is crazy strong - it took uncontrolled atmospheric reentry (and a thick atmosphere at that, in the one recorded instance a gas giant) and repeated near misses from plasma torpedoes to heat it to the point of simply softening, not melting. It's the same stuff that Hunters use for their melee shields and you need either high explosive force or antivehicle weaponry/tanks to take out those infantry units. The armor was effective enough that MACs were the only effective way to kill Covenant ships even after the shields were dropped as they'd pierce the hull and damage critical systems passing through. Archer missile swarms were only effective in the sense that they'd peel away the outer meter or two at the point of impact with each successful hit, and those successes were few and far between - Covenant pulse lasers were disturbingly effective, able to pick off missiles over a kilometer off and rarely ever missed (effectively a far superior version of Mass Effect's GARDIAN point defense systems, but without the degradation/effective combat time of only ten to fifteen minutes). Far as I'm aware neither the UNSC nor the Citadel fleets had any sort of armor material able to match nanolaminate beyond the Silaris armor and that stuff was heavily experimental, far too expensive to apply to anything larger than a frigate much less refit an entire fleet, and it did not protect the underlaying ship's hull from physical shock from threats such as ramming attacks.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Pootisman90 [2018-08-27 14:26:13 +0000 UTC]
Now that I see this again, the Galactic Republic never had a main cruiser bigger than UNSC ones.
👍: 2 ⏩: 0
Pootisman90 [2018-05-26 06:51:41 +0000 UTC]
I've always wondered if the Super Mac could be measured in teratons instead of just gigatons.
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Amon3445 In reply to Pootisman90 [2024-03-09 10:42:34 +0000 UTC]
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Amalgamation100 In reply to Pootisman90 [2018-05-26 08:43:24 +0000 UTC]
I honestly have no recollection of what I wrote here lol
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
mastacheifa117 [2018-04-12 00:49:56 +0000 UTC]
erm... how 'bout we just fire a halo ring and see how that plays out, shall we?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to mastacheifa117 [2018-04-12 06:58:52 +0000 UTC]
Halo rings are ineffective weapons to be used in war considering there targeting is none-discriminatory. This list focuses on ships.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
mastacheifa117 In reply to Amalgamation100 [2018-04-12 21:04:34 +0000 UTC]
Ok then, then let's use a covenant glassing beam. I also appreciate the amount of detail in the comparisons.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to mastacheifa117 [2018-04-14 01:06:37 +0000 UTC]
glassing beams aren't typically used in space warfare or ship to ship combat as plasma torpedos are just a way more effective weapon so I didn't really analyse them, glassing beams are more of a ship to surface weapon.
They CAN be used in Space Combat though there aren't many reports of it, they're just not designed for that purpose.
And thank you yeah I tried to be as objective as possible and split it up between each universe and then the cannon for Amalgamation so people wouldn't get too confused.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
johnp87 [2018-03-27 03:35:42 +0000 UTC]
jeez one of those ships is big i doubt any ship from the mass effect series or star trek or star wars would ever take it on
also you should also add the federation in the cross over and i am talking about star trek spanning from the prime time line and kelvin timeline
since you added the weyland yutani corperation from the aliens and aliens vs predator series should you add the predators in the mix.
this is impressive if i wasnt a little scared on the big big ship
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to johnp87 [2018-03-30 15:11:29 +0000 UTC]
Predators do exist in this universe, stick around I'm about to launch a reboot so you can have the full story of the Vindicates.
Am not going to use Star Trek as I'm sticking to Video-Game Sci-fi universes only, for aesthetics and because I can use their 3D models.
The massive Covenant ship is a Super-Carrier, they are meant to be utterly insane. Doesn't mean it can't be defeated, in Halo reach one was brought down with a slip-sapce bomb.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
luvidicus [2017-08-02 04:15:15 +0000 UTC]
You may want to redo some of your calculations for the UNSC MAC guns. The munitions fired by a UNSC warship aren't 600 kilograms...but 600 tons as stated in the lore. Might have thrown your numbers off.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to luvidicus [2017-08-03 02:05:56 +0000 UTC]
You're right about the weight I used, I simply mis-typed but all the calculations were based off of their impact and firing power, so I don't think I messed up any calculations there I simply typo'd the weight
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Pootisman90 [2017-06-29 09:53:24 +0000 UTC]
It becomes disturbing when you realize that the Republic main cruiser is actually smaller than the Marathon.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to Pootisman90 [2017-06-29 11:34:13 +0000 UTC]
The Marathon isn't on this list though...?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Pootisman90 In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-06-29 13:11:41 +0000 UTC]
The Halo 2 nameless cruiser. Better overall than the Halcyon, but not enough numbers, and most of them were in Reach and Earth.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to Pootisman90 [2017-06-29 14:38:42 +0000 UTC]
Oh okay, that's the Marathon one
I probably should edit that in
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Pootisman90 In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-06-29 14:42:07 +0000 UTC]
Still, it´s bigger than the Venator... And the 65 kilotons thing is from the 475 meters Charon... who knows how powerfuls is a 1192 meters long cruiser (longer ship, stronger MAC).
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to Pootisman90 [2017-07-01 12:48:24 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for pointing this out, when I introduce Star Wars I will be going over all of their ship specs too
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
goldorakx69 [2017-06-28 05:20:21 +0000 UTC]
but reaper destroi covenant ship or controled the ship
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to goldorakx69 [2017-06-28 06:48:42 +0000 UTC]
Most likely and so can the Flood take control of Citadel ships, just like they have with Covenant and AI/computer systems.
This analysis was purely for Citadel and Covenant fleets only, I never implied who would win I was just stating the advantages and disadvantages each side has.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
goldorakx69 In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-06-28 06:57:08 +0000 UTC]
i dont care who winne but covenant is to cofen on the army and think covenant is good guy and the human evil the prouf the covenant call spartan the demon
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Amalgamation100 In reply to goldorakx69 [2017-06-28 09:53:31 +0000 UTC]
First; your grammar and punctuation needs some work my friend, I am not pointing this out to you to be mean about it simply stating you need to improve.
I know what Covenant means, and by that logic you could be evil simply because I decided to call you demon and announce you as an affront to my religion.
Evil is a point of view, the Covenant call Spartans Demons because they see them as evil and humanities mere existence as heresy, from the humans perspective, the Covenant are enacting genocide without provocation, which is true for even both sides acknowledge this, simply because of the Covenants religion. This is to the humans, morally reprehensible/evil.
Evil is a point of view and it's always the other guys who are doing wrong no matter where you were born because that's what you were taught.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Amalgamation100 In reply to grnx00r2 [2017-06-26 16:38:11 +0000 UTC]
There were so many numbers in this, IDEK what those are for...
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
GDSPatheII [2017-06-01 20:42:54 +0000 UTC]
I'm pretty sure the Covenant are gonna win in any Covenant Citadel war simply because of their ability to go where the Citadel can't a Citadel ship can go at some 24LY per day a covenant ship can go at 800ly per day plus the Citadel vessels have the disadvantage of having a 50 LY range before they need to discharge their FTL drives into a magnetic field that puts a range limit on Citadel ships meaning the Covenant have planets that the Citadel can't touch. Meanwhile, the Covenant can just go around using their slip space drives to penetrate deep into Citadel space and start glassing planets not all planets can have a defense fleet while the Covenant have a major advantage in quality and strategic mobility.
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Amalgamation100 In reply to GDSPatheII [2017-06-28 07:21:26 +0000 UTC]
Also I've done some research to address this in the post and you're actually wrong, Citadel ships can go roughly 5K times the speed of light per day.
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/FTL
I'm more of a halo fan than an ME fan and I found it harder to find any good solid information on Covenant Slipspace speeds so if you find any please be sure to let me know, or at least tell me where you got that 800 number from because I found a source that said UNSC ships to go over 2K per day.
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Amalgamation100 In reply to GDSPatheII [2017-06-02 03:08:39 +0000 UTC]
Astute observation, and you're absolutely right for a straight up 1v1 crossover fight, but the fight that happened in my universe is way more balanced because of the fact that they developed in the same universe and thus share technology.
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GDSPatheII In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-06-28 17:31:42 +0000 UTC]
halo.wikia.com/wiki/Slipstream…
www.halopedia.org/Slipstream_s…
Here also convent vessels use an inferior version of Forerunner drives who can curb stomp the entire ME galaxy in slightly less than a day and can do what 11400ly per day. halo slipspace is faster than standard ME drives except for relays. Covenant ships are super super fast compared to human vessels
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Amalgamation100 In reply to GDSPatheII [2017-06-29 06:52:36 +0000 UTC]
I updated the description again as I did manage to understand and find Covenant Slipspace speeds.
This isn't a comparison between universe's, the Forerunners aren't apart of this or we'd be bringing in Prothean and Leviathan stuff into the mix too.
This assessment was for my fan-fic battle, in which the two universes developed as one alongside several others meaning that both utilise each others tech, to analyse how that fight went down I had to analyse the tech differences between the two individually.
Please look to my timeline and galaxy map for reference, they're pinned to my front page.
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wbyrd [2017-03-19 14:27:17 +0000 UTC]
You put a lot of thought into this I have run through this a few times in my head so it's nice to see someone put numbers together.
A couple of thigs I thought I would bounce off you since you have already worked out things in your head.
Plasma weapons fire a physical packet of matter, well superheated charged gas. Kinetic barriers won't stop the heat but they do stop physical objects. would that cause the bolt to be stopped before it hit the hull of an ME ship...
Second:
Mass Effect ships are capable of short range FTL flight, the Mass relays are for extremely long range FTL travel If I read things right the citadel ships can move about 15 light years per day. Which is totally pointless for traveling the distances between some Citadel regions which span the entire galaxy.
However, since a Mass effect ship can do short bursts of real space FTL almost at will would that affect the outcome of any conflict.
And finally, Halo ships appear to be restricted to Newtonian movement.
Halo ships appear to be restricted to Newtonian movement. Citedel vessels cheat..using their mass effect filds to turn off their own mass. In theory that also turns off inertia, or makes it much easier to manage. The Normandy was shown maneuvering in an almost fighter like manner. I am curious, do you think the sheer speed and agility of the smaller Citadel ships would make a significant difference.
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dragonator1109 In reply to wbyrd [2022-03-11 01:57:07 +0000 UTC]
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-04-11 04:23:10 +0000 UTC]
I finally added your input into the description, sorry it took so long
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-04-11 18:41:20 +0000 UTC]
No worries just glad to contribute. Is fun to talk about this stuff without everyone going all fan boy and losing their mind when you say anything bad about their favorite universe
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-04-12 02:56:39 +0000 UTC]
I try to be as unbiased as humanly possible with these things
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-03-20 04:00:01 +0000 UTC]
Well, that's a nice perspective I didn't think of! Funnily how the kinetic barrier thing came in last minute, I was scanning over all my data and I read over the wiki's and I found "ineffective against extreme heat" and I was like "Oh DAMN!" because until then I had assumed that there was no reason a Kinetic Barrier couldn't do everything a Particle Shield could, and since there wasn't a way to measure ME kinetics power (nothing mentioned about how many hits ME ships can take, for example) I was just going to give the benefit of the doubt and say both were the same, or at the very least Kinetics would be better than armour.
I also realised that me finding that at the last minute means that I could have overlooked something, but the simple fact is that Plasma is extremely bloody hot. Yes Plasma is somewhat of a solid, but it's also a liquid, and a gas, all in one, most actually say that it's a fourth state of matter, so no I do not think Kinetic barriers would be able to deflect them. The reason the Normandy SR1 was destroyed by the Collector Vessel was because it used a Thanix Canon which was a superheated, molten metal projectile, the upgraded kinetic barriers of the normandy were able to counter that to a degree (being able to get hit once without being taken down) they use the
"Multicore shielding utilizing Cyclonic Barrier Technology (CBT) " which "violently slaps aside rather than halting incoming linear force. By rotationally firing their mass effect field projectors, the ship creates rapidly oscillating kinetic barriers instead of static ones. Shooting through the CBT is like trying to shoot at a target inside a spinning ball. If an emitter is damaged, the CBT corrects to become a traditional shield array, a safety feature that makes it most effective during opening volleys." THAT type of Kinetic barrier might do better for one hit like it did for molten metal, but not all ships are equipped with that, I used those in my amalgamated universe though. Also I find it hard to see if they'd be able to slap aside plasma as like I've said, it isn't exactly a solid... it's just, weird, goo-y death. This is when stuff gets complicated, when we have to guess about stuff like this, it could work it could not! THESE ARE UNTESTED HYPOTHESIS! We need to build this shit irl and see if it works lol
Halo ships are restricted to Newtonian movement on there own, that is correct, until they go into slip-space which is like, another dimension. It uses the same principles, from what I've seen anyway, as the Einstein-Rosenberg bridge, it bends the universe in lamens terms. But in regular space combat, that is something ME ships would have over them, I always thought because the ships were smaller they'd be nimbler and faster, I think I'll add that in
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-03-20 14:29:59 +0000 UTC]
Okay, that's a pretty solid bit of reasoning. The physical properties of plasma would make it a bit hard to deflect using a kinetic barrier. Te Covenant forces would have a huge advantage in the opening encounters. I would imagine losses among the cruisers and battleships would be heavy since they aren't as nimble os Citadel fleet frigates and corvettes.
Once the Salarians got their hands on covenant shields and the tech could be reverse engineered it would be a bit less one-sided.
The differences in tech are pretty wide in some areas. I have to say you did a fairly good job of summing them up. With the breakdown you put together I'd have to say the covenant would run roughshod over the ME ships for a while. But once the ME forces learned to use their weapons to best effect the Citadel forces would be abe to use tactics and strategies that the Covenant would be hard pressed to counter.
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-03-20 14:42:54 +0000 UTC]
I also agree that the Citadel forces, being a unified group of aliens with more resources than humanity alone in the halo universe, would be able to reverse engineer covenant technology and implement it a lot quicker than humanity did (especially with the Salarian's) however, in my universe, all of these factions lived together and shared timelines, the reason the Citadel doesn't have slip-space or particle shields is because it doesn't exist in there universe and vice versa for ME fields and stuff for the Covenant
but, because my universe is a shared universe all of these technologies exist together and therefore both sides have access to it, I explain it a little more here on my galaxy map
and if you're interested in seeing what it'd look like if these two fought for size comparison, checkout this
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-03-21 00:45:32 +0000 UTC]
I'm impressed with the work you have done. I have enough trouble just managing my own universe....trying to mesh a batch of widely differing societies and technologies into any sort of order take a good bit of mental gymnastics.
I just have an image of the AI from my universe rushing in and hauling Cortana and EDI off tot the medical facility...a five-foot tall cyberoid nurse kicking Master Chief and Shepherd in the knee on the way out...probably breaking her biomimetic toe and hopping away going "ow ow ow owwww..."
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-03-21 01:48:40 +0000 UTC]
Maaaaate
mental gymnastics might not be the word for it at times, more like mental breakdowns! And that could very well happen if you really want it too, I have a section in my universe for OC's, I have a couple more scheduled too that I need to add/make posters for but if you're ever interested in having any character or asset even (currently building a Turian Mech that's Gundamn inspired for a friend, the concept is it'll get the Turians to compete with humanities titans) than let me know
amalgamation100.deviantart.com…
That's the mech atm, still needs to be properly textured as I've only slapped on some materials (this is an old render when I didn't know what lighting was)
I've had a look at your profile, you're a very talented modeller, much better than me (I've made like, two spaceships, this mech that's not finished, a bunch of planets and I mostly do environments anyway lol) but your renders lack in every other area, like composition and especially lighting, every render is lit up so plainly it just makes a bland flat image and the backgrounds you use let you down every time.
I hope I am not overstepping any boundaries here, but I think I may be able to provide some assistance with that sort of thing, coincidentally I recently made a journal which talked about this exact thing (composition and lighting) maybe this could help you achieve the more quality renders I can you're capable of
Tips for 3D artistsNot too long ago I made a verbal and emotional abusive tutorial on how to use Blender:
Read at your own risk.
Now I'm just gonna throw on some extra advice I've learned since then, one of them is after you've learned to model and pose (this is also if you're an SFM or source engine related artist) than you really need to learn what good composition and lighting is and how to use it in your art.
It's the difference between this
and this
Yeah...
As usual Blender Guru has a REALLY good tutorial on learning about composition and another for lighting, even if you already make pretty good images and know about compositing I'm sure that there's still something you could learn from it if you're willing to sit through it, the lighting one is a bit long and is probably skippable or skimable if you're an intermediate already
These videos have some really good tips that helped me make my art better, therefore I th
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-03-21 02:49:16 +0000 UTC]
Coffee, Aspirin and antacid, the fuel that powers me through practice projects.
Hmm I may have to think about one of my OCs for yer universe
you aren't overstepping. I am well aware I have a lot of work to do. I have been teaching myself how to model I haven't had time to work on composition or lighting.at soe point I may have to actually have to take an art class or two
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-03-21 02:56:55 +0000 UTC]
I've sort of been trying to teach myself everything but also the other way around, because I supplement with a lot of ported models I've been focusing more on learning composition, lighting and all that fancy artsy stuff to make my renders look nicer.
You shouldn't have to take art classes to learn that, I can see people taking art classes to learn 3D modelling but this stuff can be self taught quite easily
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-03-22 19:33:02 +0000 UTC]
It takes some work, and more than a little research to get things right but yeah, you can teach yerself.
I started doing my designs for visual references for table top games when I started to publish soe of y work I decided to do my own art...most of the illustrations are for simple printed page use so a lot of detail and subtlety gets lost in shrinking the image down to a half page illustration.
I have tried a bit more ambitious shots like this one
img15.deviantart.net/aa5a/i/20…
That's a Strike cruiser somewhere between In Amber Clad, And Pillar of Autumn in size and firepower. those guns are souped-up plasma Spinal mounts so yeah they can dish out some hurt..if they decide to close to gun range and don't toss EMP enhanced, and directed detonation( Bomb-pumped x-ray laser) Nukes at you. The Terran Alliance Executive doesn't play Nice.
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Amalgamation100 In reply to wbyrd [2017-03-23 05:41:23 +0000 UTC]
Wow, that's some awesome detailed lore!
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wbyrd In reply to Amalgamation100 [2017-03-23 07:15:15 +0000 UTC]
Oh the description for that one is fairly short At least b my standards.
wbyrd.deviantart.com/art/Titan…
This is an AI operated Dreadnought that is the flagship of the Teran Alliance fleet...or was, until it got shot down...long story. lets just say when it made a guest appearance in a game session it got a bit...interesting. Five on two dreadnought battle( the TAE were not in the majority) with two battlegroups slugging it out with a very powerful hostile formation...
This is his..."Niece"
wbyrd.deviantart.com/art/Inden…
And there is his "brother" Kronos who is the reason only theTitanSeiries had an all cyberoid crew and the AI had direct access to the ships control systems...he sort of stole the prototype and went walkabout...after a multi-billion dollar dreadnought stole itself they decided it was a bad idea to give the AI the keys to the most advanced warship the fleet had ever built.
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