HOME | DD
parallellogic — Groups: Correspondence Items
Published: 2009-08-26 09:08:09 +0000 UTC; Views: 19330; Favourites: 143; Downloads: 147
Redirect to original
Description
Next This is an inside look at how groups function, mostly to answer questions by users who don't know what features will be included or how they will function.
-.- There are probably some pretty gruesome typos in here, I haven't proof-read this just yet, please feel free to point out any you see.
I implore you to ask questions, the more you ask, the more detailed and the more useful I can make this
FAQ:
>> The number of users who can participate in a group (submit art, blogs, favs, etc) is unlimited, even for unsubscribed groups. You do not have to join the group (become a groupie) in order to participate. There is currently a limit of 100 groupies for any unsubscribed group.
>> Correspondence Items, when closed, are removed from the group message center. The system tries to reduce clutter, thus the messages can be seen in the group log if needed for reference purposes
>> Only 2 groups appear in the collections drop down at this time
>> Tips and tricks for changing the search results while searching for artwork to submit to a group can be found here: [link] , "gallery:username" for normal stuff and "gallery:username/*" for everything including scraps =Pyritie
>> There is nowhere where you can currently get a group during this alpha testing phase, you have to be hand chosen by an admin to receive one
Questions and Comments greatly encouraged
Related content
Comments: 239
We had two weeks of sub left. But then, we were asked to test the basic group. Kinda hoping once testing is all over we can have our 2 weeks left
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Thank you ^^
But yeah, I really want to know from the DA staff themselves what they plan to do. Ack, we'll probably have to wait until the very last to get to know.
But besides $1k being ridiculously expensive (even for pro companies - I can't imagine them wanting to purchace that account unless there's a limit on how much you can earn on the other types), then I'm a bit *hmmpfh* about the normal sub price. Why does it have to be higher than a subscriber account? I certainly can't afford to convert then - I don't intend to use groups to make money, and I can't calculate with my users helping out (a few might, but most likely not enough to cover the extra).
Argh, I'm rambling along XD
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
Yeah, I don't intend to ask them - I'd never get a respons XD What I meant though, was that it would be nice if they released some more info on this matter - even if it was just 'darn, we don't know yet, but these are the outlines of our plans at least'. Just something.
But well, we'll wait...
Anyway, thanks a lot for your help ^^ I appreciate it.
Erica
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~I really want to know from the DA staff themselves what they plan to do
~we'll probably have to wait until the very last to get to know
~Why does it have to be higher than a subscriber account?
~I can't calculate with my users helping out (a few might, but most likely not enough to cover the extra).
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Yeah, I don't intend to ask them - I'd never get a respons XD What I meant though, was that it would be nice if they released some more info on this matter - even if it was just 'darn, we don't know yet, but these are the outlines of our plans at least'. Just something.
But well, we'll wait...
Anyway, thanks a lot for your help ^^ I appreciate it.
Erica
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~was that it would be nice if they released some more info on this matter
~Anyway, thanks a lot for your help ^^ I appreciate it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
well this was really helpful.. the comments were as helpful as the actual item.. // thank you :}} BUT im a little concerned about this price thing. // even $50 or $60 seems kinda high 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
hmmmmm..... i think before deciding I would appreciate a more thorough explanation of what exact features come with the different levels, and what each level would cost..... // so I would know if it was better to convert to a group, but be unsubbed, or stay a club, but be subbed....// im not sure I could afford a sub if I changed to a group.. and id hate to have *less* features cause I couldn't maintain a subscription
there are too many things not explained in the offer they are making right now I think.. for instance they are saying that if people do not change now, they will lose a bunch of stuff, all their old information and comments and will have to start from scratch later.. (Im not even sure if Im understanding this right) which seems a big downside.. but, also, if you change over now and are able to keep all your old info, then you cannot go back, and will be committed to higher prices (presumably) if you want to remain subscribed.... so.. there are a lot of questions I have about this offer. I just have a tiny club and I dont want to count on the members paying.
I hope they will give a few more details before expecting people to commit >@< its kinda hard to make a decision with all this sort of unexplained, and honestly it makes me wonder, how hard is it to make up some graphs that list the features and the prices? is there a reason they dont want to do this/?.... //
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~id hate to have *less* features ... for instance they are saying that if people do not change now, they will lose a bunch of stuff, all their old information and comments and will have to start from scratch later
~if you want to remain subscribed.... so.. there are a lot of questions I have about this offer.
Heh, I was curious if you have a one year sub for a club then convert to a group, do you still have a one-year sub as a group? If it costs $20 for a club for a year sub and $50 for a group sub, it would be a money-saving idea to buy a sub for the group before converting it rather than later.
~how hard is it to make up some graphs that list the features and the prices? is there a reason they dont want to do this/?.... //
I think the real problem is that they haven't worked groups all the way through. I get the feeling they jumped into this with ideas for the key points like converting deviations, but didn't look at other things like what to do with re-sized avatars (so now the avatars of groups look very odd elsewhere on the site). If this is true, they most likely don't have a complete list of features they intend to implement and are only choosing ones that seem important or easy to code.
And looking at this a bit more in-depth, I figure there's a reason they have a beta-testing program and no alpha-testing program. Groups are still in alpha and making them visible to the public is a new development strategy for dA (normally they wait for beta) so I suspect they won't release a full list of features until they are well into the beta-phase of testing when they really do have a clear idea of what groups will be capable of handling.
I don't think the offer made in #hq is imminent to being executed. One main point would be the fact that it is aimed at users who already own and run groups -- the first thing they will want to do (or at least ideally should do) when they convert will be to convert the club submissions into group submissions -- from what I've seen, they've only just started working on the conversion process, let alone having it stable enough for rigorous use. I wouldn't take that offer seriously until you see deviations from convert groups turning into actual submissions (indicating they have the preliminary structure for deviation conversion complete)
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
--I'm not sure where you get the idea you're starting over from scratch: your new group will have all the same watchers, stats and images as the old club had.
hmmm, thanks so much... well maybe I was just misinterpreting: this is from the article: (sorry for the long quote)
"To extend our thanks, we want to give all current club owners VIP treatment when it comes to Groups. Here's the deal; before the Groups system is launched en mass (to everyone), we'd like to get your club up and running on the Groups platform before any non-beta tester even has access. That means all of your existing club activity -- pageviews, deviations, comments, watchlist, etc. -– will be automatically transferred to the Groups platform, preserving all of your users and club metrics.
Unlike others who will have to wait until launch to recruit members, your club (now a group) will have the advantage of being fully accessible before the actual launch of Groups. In a sense, you’ll be preserving the history of your club and all of its activity, while having the luxury of operating on a more robust and powerful system...."
so I interpreted this to mean that the "VIP treatment" included "keeping the history and activity intact"... which sort of implied *not* taking the offer meant losing the history and activity.. but maybe I just misinterpreted. //
its ok with me if they don't have it all figured out -- that's understandable, I just really wasn't at all clear on what the offer entailed from what they wrote.... I do own a very small club but I still really dont want to lose its history... other than that, I am not in any hurry to become a group. if doing it later means losing the history, then, that would definitely influence a decision to do it "now". // if the history etc will remain unchanged, (which I hope it will) I have no reason not to wait until later on, to switch. ^^
so I guess I won't take this too seriously now, and just keep watching whats up ^^ thanks for helping me understand better :}
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I interpreted the VIP treatment as meaning the current club owners would have access to the groups system before anyone else (ie current group owners would be permitted to come in during beta-testing phase even if they aren't beta-testers).
I also interpreted the "keeping the history and activity intact" as an assurance that if people did take advantage of converting their club to a group, they would not lose any of their stats (since that point has not been made clear previously). For clarity, it should probably say something along the lines of if you convert early, your club will retain the stats and watchers since people have been curious about that, but if you convert during the official release, your new group will have the same stats and watcher as your club had before too.
~if doing it later means losing the history, then, that would definitely influence a decision to do it "now"
I claim that violates their promise that groups would be *as good or better* than clubs and thus they will not do it. I believe the statement in the #hq blog was a positive assurance that the group would have the same history as the club, the blog was not a negative statement that groups would start from scratch later down the road.
~so I guess I won't take this too seriously now, and just keep watching whats up ^^
~thanks for helping me understand better :} 
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
--I claim that violates their promise that groups would be *as good or better* than clubs and thus they will not do it.
ok: well that makes sense. //
I will keep my eyes open :}
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Ho. Ly. Crap.
Amazing work here, man. I have a feeling this work is going to be the basis for one of those CSS'd news articles by $Stykera or some other admin. Great job making it easy to read, with great screencaps of every possible situation!
Looking forward to more!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~I have a feeling this work is going to be the basis for one of those CSS'd news articles by $Stykera or some other admin.
~Looking forward to more!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Haha, okay.
And I would say that the main thing I was interested about was the actual operating of a Group, so I really don't know of anything more. I'll let you know if I do!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Can't wait.
Is there a release date?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
There is no official release date, no. My bet is that there will be about one to two more months of development, the beta-versions will be released and then sometime in early 2010 the actual accounts will be released. That estimation is based of the frequency of bug reports filed in #devBUG and the rate that the programmers have been releasing new features for groups. Not terribly optimistic I know, but I feel it's more realistic than saying they're always "coming soon"
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
What would be the exact criteria for making a club into a group? How many members minimum? Any other specifics?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~What would be the exact criteria for making a club into a group?
I'm not entirely sure. I think they will be screening based on whether or not you have a clear plan for how you intend to operate your group.
~How many members minimum? Any other specifics?
Well, some groups will not have a club predecessor: they will just be new accounts that are initially created as groups and never go through the intermediate step of clubs, so I don't think there is a member requirement since it wouldn't be fair to the clubs that already have a following if new groups were able to be created with less restrictions.
~Any other specifics?
There hasn't been that much info released about the group conversion process. For a short time after the release of official groups, users will only be able to found one group. This limit will be removed after groups become common place, but initially it is intended as a way to make groups more precious.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Alright!
The Groups anticipation is getting even greater!
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
THis is looking awesome, I love the voting!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I was just wondering a question of pricing. I definitely want to have my group at "Pro" level. Do you know what the pricing levels will be for Super, and Pro? If not, do you know who I can talk to about it?
👍: 0 ⏩: 2
There are several tiers of Club.
Free. Limited amount of options
Basic Sub (Estimated cost is $50-60 USD annually)
Advanced (amount not discussed yet)
Premium (we're talking $1K USD annually)
With each "up" in tier, you get MORE options and more abilities. Example is free Groups will work like a free club, no CSS... Next tier up when you get the sub, you can add CSS, etc...
At the top, the Premium Clubs, those will basically be entire website like groups that you make MONEY off of, but having ESTABLISHED companies and members all coming and going all the time.
This is based off of information gathered at the deviantArt World Tour by a creditable source. Though much of this is mostly likely subject to change. But it gives you a general idea anyways
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
$1000 is insane. I understand what you mean by it not being for normal people to buy, but why does it have to be that way? I want a large amount of the features so that I can successfully run my group. I also don't want a limit on people. I plan to have many supporters for my group, so this seems kind of insane to limit me to 1000 people. I know that dA Pride has 3500 members currently, and my group will eventually grow that big, if not bigger.
I am a student. I don't have 1000 per year to put into deviant art. Even though it would be hard I could afford $50 to $60 per year for dA though. That's it. I really hope the higher-ups decide to make a business pro, and a non-business pro.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Just remember that this was a general outline given at the time of the Tour, many things may have changed since then in regards t pricing and Tier Levels. But this will give you a general idea of where they were a few months ago.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hopefully they have redesigned the idea in that time.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
We'll see
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I have no knowledge of what they plan to do with pricing. I believe a basic subscription (Super group) will be slightly more costly than a typical subscription for a normal user account, but that is just a rumor. I've also been told that Pro groups were originally intended for corporate interests, like companies that wanted to run contests through dA, so I suspect the cost for that type of subscription may be substantially more.
I really don't know who to talk to about pricing, I mean I think your chances of contacting $spyed are zero to none and the programmers are really only interested in the features they are designing, I really don't know who's in charge of finances. You might want to take a look around *stafflist and check out some of the people in charge of products, they may have an idea who would handle money. If you do find out, I would really like to add that info to this walkthrough
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I talked to someone about pricing recently, and this is what they told me:
Basic Group: Free
Super Group: $50 - $60
Pro Group: Around $1000
I find that kind of insane, but as you said, the highest is for corporations. I hope that they will be able to have a non-business pro so that I can get all the features. Or maybe they can give all the non-money making features to the "super" class, and then that would be fine with me.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Hmm, I faintly recall something along those lines price-wise, but I thought they had moved away from that model. I can't really imagine what kind of features they could sink into groups that would make the Pro accounts worth $1000. Given the problems with message center flooding that #hq is currently having, it just doesn't seem worth it to try and finagle companies into purchasing a Pro rate when it's currently so unwieldy (though the programmers seem to be trying to address that issue, among others...). It would have to be nothing short of a digital headquarters for the company in question I would think, I mean $1K per month (unless those prices are per year?) would be nearing minimum wage for nothing more than web space.
Based on what I've seen thus far, they either need to develop some jaw-dropping widgets to go with Pro groups, or they're not going to be able to give them away (even to companies I would think) for anything much more than $100 when Super groups can meet almost the same functional requirements that Pro groups can handle.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I think it's per year. Even then, 1000 per year seems quite high. Lol, they could build their own website with an army of web designers for that much. Well, maybe not an ARMY, but still a lot. I could definitely understand $100 a year. That's $8 dollars a month. But $1000 at $80 dollars a month? Insanity.
As you said, they either need to re-invent the wheel, or they need to lower the prices.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
This is absolutely fantastic, well done for putting it together!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I think this could really work well and if everyone helps eachother the skys the limit, i'm very grateful for you posting this it's lots to take in but very helpful. I can't wait to play, Cheers again take care and happy drawing.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Hm, maybe add something about how to narrow the "contribute art" and "send a favourite" boxes down to a specific gallery.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'll add that to the FAQ at the bottom, that's more of a general search tip than applying specifically to groups, but a good rule to know none-the-less
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
So close now, so close! I can almost feel it!
I'm so exited! :exited:
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Its just so confusing!! As it stands now I dont want to convert my club to groups. There are several problems with the group system as it is now. I really wonder how they're going to handle the conversion of club to group, I mean to do it all manually would be inefficient so theyd have to come up with a faster way. And the 100 members cap that apparently is there is just ridiculous. I too really dislike the groupies thing. Seperating members like that is too social, which may be the point but its also another reason why the group system may not be for every club. I just have way too many questions and none of the staff seem to have any valid answers right now. You seem to know more than they do. ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~I mean to do it all manually would be inefficient so theyd have to come up with a faster way.
I suspect they will search for a link in the text of each original club submission description and make that option easily selectable when converting club deviations to group submissions so that it is not all manual.
~And the 100 members cap that apparently is there is just ridiculous.
You do not have to be a member (groupie) in order to take part in the club (submit art, blogs, favs, etc) if the founder selects the right settings. The number of participants in a group is unlimited, even for Basic groups.
~Seperating members like that is too social
$spyed himself used the term "clique" to describe groups, I can't say I completely agree with all their design decisions.
~I just have way too many questions and none of the staff seem to have any valid answers right now.
~You seem to know more than they do. ^^
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I hope they do find a way so that clubs can tranfer to groups more smoothy, I know lots of people that are hoping for that. some clubs are huge. I wish that members on an equal level could be unlimted. maybe it is with a sub? or maybe i dont understand that part.
I have questions about small things, like will you still be able to have an affilates section with other groups like it is right now with clubs? And the way to link things wont change right? itll all still be the way journals are done now i hope. I also dont like how all the club entries on a certain page are all in a row and shown like that though im assuming you can change that setting. and will we be able to use the same avatars? cause from what ive seen the groups so far have this special long group thingy. lol its confusing me!
sorry for the probably stupid sounding questions/comments but yeah it just seems like they still have a ways to go with this and hopefully theyll get more organized and share more info with us. ^^ thank you
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
~I hope they do find a way so that clubs can tranfer to groups more smoothy, I know lots of people that are hoping for that
I've heard quite a bit of talk from the programmers about that, I'm certain that is a top priority for them
~I wish that members on an equal level could be unlimted.
What do you mean by equal level? If you don't use the groupies level, then technically everyone would be on an equal level.
~will you still be able to have an affilates section with other groups like it is right now with clubs?
I suspect that there will be a custom widget for listing affiliations between the groups. That will be in unison with the group search feature where users will be able to find groups based on key words through the up-and-coming search engine.
~And the way to link things wont change right?
If you're talking about what I think you are, no, there should be no changes with making links.
~itll all still be the way journals are done now i hope.
Yeah, journals in groups are called blogs, and that's about the only difference (at least in the text, there are additional options like not allowing other users to edit it that will only be available on group blogs).
~I also dont like how all the club entries on a certain page are all in a row and shown like that
Do you mean the Profile Page layout? Can you link me to a club with the features you are referring to. If you're talking about the page layout, that is actually a setting that can be selected for subscribed groups at the founder's discretion.
~and will we be able to use the same avatars?
I'm not sure what their plans are for avatars. They may end up adding half the space to the left and half the space to the right to make a 50x50 avatar centered in a 100x50 avatar space, I don't really know. You can still edit the avatar in the same way as you can for your own avatar, you are still limited to 15KB as well
~but yeah it just seems like they still have a ways to go with this and hopefully theyll get more organized and share more info with us.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
<= Prev | | Next =>